Euthanasia Whats your view - Printable Version
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Euthanasia Whats your view by Wabz on 02-19-2004 at 05:51 PM
Well i think i spelt it right it's a controversial thing but something myself I believe in
Wots your opinions?
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Tochjo on 02-19-2004 at 06:04 PM
I'm from the Netherlands, and that's a country that goes very far in legalizing things like this. When correct procedures are followed (thorough talks with patient and family/friends, a different doctor has to give his opinion etc.), it is legal to let a patient die, if his suffering seems unendable (no hopes for reasonable medical recovery).
I totally support this. Someone mentioned in the thread about suicide that life was a gift, and not a given right. I didn't want to go in discussion about that here, but I disagree with that comment. I see my life as a right: it is my choice to do with it what I want to, even if that includes death. The way it was said in the other thread made me think of obligations: I gave it to you and now you're stuck with it, no matter what. I don't understand that; don't want to accept it.
From my point of view, I think nobody should commit suicide. I'm a teenager myself, and have never considered it. I like my life, though it isn't very spectacular. But does that mean that it's not worth it? Life can be what you make of it. And when you've made the best of it, and somehow ended up with an untreatable disease, I think it's more than acceptable if you want to end it in a way you seem fit. I haven't thought about euthanasia for myself very thoroughly, but I can imagine that, if my life should end up like a worst-case-scenario, I'd consider euthanasia.
I don't say that this is now the way we should all end, and of course, strict rules have to apply for things like this. But I'm in favour of the possibility.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Anubis on 02-19-2004 at 06:04 PM
As long as it’s official and very carefully decided and treat with respect…I'm for it…
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by tomfletcherman on 02-19-2004 at 06:10 PM
Well they make divorce difficult cos that can be a big decision, so why not euthanasia? If someone wants it bad enough they should have to go through some sort of process. The government in britain should allow it.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by BooGhost on 02-19-2004 at 06:16 PM
ewll they're old
sometimes suffer a lot
let them stop suffering 
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by KeyStorm on 02-19-2004 at 07:11 PM
I don't see the point in suffering to death when nothing can be done against it. Even if there'd be a solution. If one has to suffer so much pain to want to better die... I mean... It's completely reasonable.
I'm for it.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Weyzza on 02-19-2004 at 07:23 PM
I'm not sure, but the decision most likely must be one-sided.
It is not taken by the patient himself/herself.
The family doesn't know exactly whether the patient wants to die ("stop suffering") or not.
I think euthanasia should not be done unless the patient's family cannot afford the treatment fee, nobody could help the patient, and nobody cares about him/her.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by saralk on 02-19-2004 at 07:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thekid
I think euthanasia should not be done unless the patient's family cannot afford the treatment fee
When it comes to living, money should never EVER be an issue, everyone should have the right to live. If a family can't afford to keep someone alive, and no-one can pay for it, that is disgraceful. It just shows what a materialistic world we have come to live in.
However, this just goes back to a question of suicide, everyone has the right to live, and the right to die.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by WDZ on 02-19-2004 at 08:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tochjo
When correct procedures are followed (thorough talks with patient and family/friends, a different doctor has to give his opinion etc.), it is legal to let a patient die, if his suffering seems unendable (no hopes for reasonable medical recovery).
I think it's OK as long as some procedures like those are followed. Someone might want to die when they're going through a bad time in their life, but if they stay alive, things will get better.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by CookieRevised on 02-20-2004 at 12:56 AM
quote:What? In most cases the decision MUST be taken by the patient himself/herself... If he/she doesn't agree then the formalities aren't done, and authansia can't be performed...
Originally posted by thekid
I'm not sure, but the decision most likely must be one-sided.
It is not taken by the patient himself/herself.
There are exceptions on this very important rule; When the patient can't decide for himself anymore. In this case, there must be a written, official approval of the closed family, house-doctor, several other doctors, and sometimes a judge. This process takes roughly 3 months!
Euthanasia is a form of suicide, not murder!!! If the decision is taken like you said, the doctor who "unplugs the plug" is sentenced for murder.
quote:In most cases, they do!
Originally posted by thekid
The family doesn't know exactly whether the patient wants to die ("stop suffering") or not.
quote:That's just the kind of think hospitals will NOT do. Some taxes we (your parents) pay are for this kind of situations. It's called health care...
Originally posted by thekid
I think euthanasia should not be done unless the patient's family cannot afford the treatment fee, nobody could help the patient, and nobody cares about him/her.
Rules are different in different countries. But in the countries where euthanasia is legal, the rules are always almost the same...
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by musicalmidget on 02-20-2004 at 01:04 AM
We had many debates about this at school last year.
I don't think there is any problem with it as long as the circumstances are correct, and all is done decently and appropriately.
One of the most important things to think about though, is how do you know whether someone is mentally in the correct frame of mind to make such a crucial decision?
I think there should be certain conditions, but providing the conditions are correct and are always met, I don't see a problem. 
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Chrono on 02-20-2004 at 01:05 AM
i completely agree with Tochjo
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Weyzza on 02-20-2004 at 03:59 AM
CookieRevised: I'm sorry. I think my argument was kinda vague.
I was talking when the patient cannot make his decision.
But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.
You know, when we were still children, and we didn't get what we wanted, we would be angry, said that we didn't want to talk to our parents anymore.
That is a temporal decision. We thought shortly. We didn't know why our parents didn't allow us to have it.
So do the patients. The patients think shortly. They don't think how to "figure" it out (I couldn't find a better word). They want instant.
The patient who asks for euthanasia might feel great pain. But, recently, technology has been improving rapidly. With technology in medication, doctors have found many ways to kill the pain.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
There are exceptions on this very important rule; When the patient can't decide for himself anymore. In this case, there must be a written, official approval of the closed family, house-doctor, several other doctors, and sometimes a judge. This process takes roughly 3 months!
Pretend that I have commited to do something before I die, and I want to do it really bad. Suddenly, I have an accident and I am in coma. Do my family, the doctors, the judge have the right to end my life?
How if I would be conscious after four or five months, but the one-sided decision has been taken?
In my opinion, coma is only a real deep sleep. Unawakened. It is not death. The patient is still breathing although he needs equipments to help him breathing. His brain is still working although the brain might be severely damaged.
Remember, miracle happens...
quote:
Man wakes from coma after 19 years
By Ben Davey and AP
July 9 2003
A man regained consciousness after 19 years in a coma, greeting his mother who was waiting at his Arkansas bedside.
"He started out with 'Mom' and surprised her and then it was 'Pepsi' and then it was 'milk," Alesha Badgley, Stone County Nursing and Rehabilitation Centre social director, said today.
"And now it's anything he wants to say."
Terry Wallis, 39, had been at the Mountain View centre since a car crash in July 1984.
...
for complete news http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/09/1057430247106.html
If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...
The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family.
I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.
quote:
Originally posted by saralk
Everybody has the right to live, and the right to die.
I want to correct this.
Everybody doesn't have the right to live, and the right to die.
Everybody has the right to fight for his/her life.
A fetus has the right to live, because fetus cannot make a decision.
Euthanasia for untreatable patients has been abused. Some people who have mental illness, disability, or old age choose euthanasia as a solution, or even maybe asked to.
Do you want to know a real true confession?
I always wanted to die. But I have found the right way now
.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Muss on 02-20-2004 at 05:37 AM
I couldn't be bothered reading people's posts, as my eyes are tired 
(I have been up since 5am!!!!!)
But, I believe it is a good thing, well, as long as
a) it is what teh person wants (like, they are sane, and aren't hopped up on drugs - that alter their state of mind)
b) the person is actually suffering (physically) and it isn't just a "I feel depressed" kind of thing
c) it is fully talked over with the family of the person before hand.
RE: RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by CookieRevised on 02-20-2004 at 07:51 AM
quote:Excuse me, but that is rubbish... A patient can be in great stress and pain before he dies. If someone is in hospital having great stress and pain, counting the last days and takes this desicion he doesn't need any psychological help, he wants to rest in peace...
Originally posted by thekid
But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.
quote:I can assure you that such a desicion isn't lightly taken, neither by the patient, neither by the doctors...
Originally posted by thekid
You know, when we were still children, and we didn't get what we wanted, we would be angry, said that we didn't want to talk to our parents anymore.
That is a temporal decision. We thought shortly. We didn't know why our parents didn't allow us to have it.
So do the patients. The patients think shortly. They don't think how to "figure" it out (I couldn't find a better word). They want instant.
quote:No they haven't. Painkillers are still the same old medicines...
Originally posted by thekid
The patient who asks for euthanasia might feel great pain. But, recently, technology has been improving rapidly. With technology in medication, doctors have found many ways to kill the pain.
quote:In short: yes, if the right conditions are met.
Originally posted by thekid
Pretend that I have commited to do something before I die, and I want to do it really bad. Suddenly, I have an accident and I am in coma. Do my family, the doctors, the judge have the right to end my life?
quote:A desicion can always be broken of course...
Originally posted by thekid
How if I would be conscious after four or five months, but the one-sided decision has been taken?
quote:Of course it isn't dead. Yet, someone can be in coma and yet feel great stress and pain... Also, there are many different kinds of coma.
Originally posted by thekid
In my opinion, coma is only a real deep sleep. Unawakened. It is not death.
quote:That's the whole point. Should one wait untill the time comes while he is in great pain and stress?
Originally posted by thekid
If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...
What is more human? Let someone suffer untill the end of his days (no, painkillers don't always work) or should we release him of his pain like he requested and let him sleep painless for ever?
quote:That is NOT a good reason to do euthanasia.
Originally posted by thekid
The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.
quote:I don't want to be rude either, but you realy need to look up more info about what euthanasia realy is and about when it is taken...
Originally posted by thekid
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family. I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.
The desicion of euthansia isn't lightly taken, like I said before. It isn't:
IF (A and B) then "euthanasia". It is a life-desicion.
If all the "paper-work" is done or in process, the desicion can always be retracted for any reason of course. Euthanasia is a good thing and often a human thing todo. If people say "what if he awakens out of a coma", "euthanasia is murder", etc..., they realy need to get more info about what euthanasia realy is.
I'm sorry, but some comments are just rubbish. I hope no-one has to experience the process of all this with a close family or friend or such. Untill you do, do research and stop talking nonsense.
You will know what we're talking about when the time comes when some of your friends are terminal ill and in great pain....
Yes, I have close experience on the matter. I lost already to many friends and familiy. 2 (a friend and my grandfather) wanted euthanasia and I can tell you that such a desicion isn't lightly taken and is always a shock AND a releave to hear. Only for my grandfather the desicion was approved. He died like he wanted, in peace with no pain. My friend died with great pain.
The fraise "unplug the plug" isn't correct by the way. Euthanasia is performed by putting the patient in a deeper sleep then before all the time. In the begin process, the patient sleeps like normal people (8 hours a day) after a while the only thing the patient does in sleeping (and dreaming -> REM sleep) and after a while the patient will die in his sleep... peacefully...
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Omar on 02-20-2004 at 04:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by saralk
When it comes to living, money should never EVER be an issue, everyone should have the right to live. If a family can't afford to keep someone alive, and no-one can pay for it, that is disgraceful. It just shows what a materialistic world we have come to live in.
Yes, but unfortunately what's the first thing they ask you when you go to a hospital...?
...do you have insurance?....
It's sucks, but is just the way life is...
I'm totally agree with using euthanasia in some cases...if the person is suffering, and there's no real way to ease the pain..
One thing is allowing it and other this is making it easy...even if the paperwork takes 1-2 months....
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Weyzza on 02-20-2004 at 07:11 PM
CookieRevised: Well, I guess we are agree to disagree. i'm happy to argue with you.
I have one thought, though.
I am wondering what people think about euthanasia years centuries ahead.
You know that smoking was and is opposed by many people, especially environmentalists.
Once my cousin told me that his professor agreed to "let" people smoking. The professor said that the population of the world was very high. So the professor thought that why we don't let them die.
I'm just hoping that euthanasia would not become a way to control the population, just as like abortion, which have become a "way" to control the population.
Note: please don't say "rubbish" or anything. Just say "not true" or the others. It's okay for me, but it might be not okay for other people. Many people out there are easily offended (my own experience).
And hopefully, there's no thread about abortion... (or it had been discussed before?)
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Omar on 02-20-2004 at 10:56 PM
Cookie...
I have to agree with thekid on this one...
He is entitled to his opinions and we're entitled to agree or not with him...
Just because you think differently than him doesn't mean that his opinion is rubish.
You are not the owner of the truth, you know...
BTW I disagree with you thekid regarding euthanasia... Miracles does happen....but what if the person doesn't want to take that chance...?
Cheers....
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by CookieRevised on 02-21-2004 at 07:34 AM
Think a minute seriously about this:
When your favorite pet has an accident and he can't be operated anymore and he's in great pain. What do we do? We take em to the doctor and he's put asleep... We all think that's the best thing we can do...
When someone has come to the end of his life. And he's suffering a lot. Nothing can be done anymore. What do you do then? Let him suffer for a few weeks/months until he passes away? Or do we do as he's requested and let him die in peace?
PS: In my previous post I stated facts, not opinions.
And how do I know this? Because I've read extensivly on the subject and talked with people, doctors, even with priests and experienced the emotional rollercoaster twice from up close....
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Omar on 02-21-2004 at 05:04 PM
Totally agree with you Cookie...I think the same way...
But reading, and researching and all that doesn't give you the right to call any person's opinion "rubbish"...
That's all I'm saying...
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by CookieRevised on 02-22-2004 at 04:46 PM
I apologize then for calling the kid's comments rubbish. But I keep my standpoint. (as the kid will do also of course)...
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by billywoods1 on 02-22-2004 at 05:14 PM
Euthanasia is something I believe everyone has the right to... as suicide. However, suicide is illegal (before you pick me up on it - attempted suicide is illegal, performed suicide is equally illegal but they won't lock up dead bodies )... isn't euthanasia suicide? So if we legalise euthanasia, don't we have to legalise suicide? Because if we don't, people could be pretending to be in great pain, etc. and just as with abortion, it will become overused. The only other viewpoint is that euthanasia is murder, and we can't legalise murder.
I personally really don't see what everyone has against euthanasia. Actually, I feel as strongly as CookieRevised, although I've never been put in the situation of knowing someone in that condition before.
quote:
Originally posted by thekid
If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...
The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family.
I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.
Hold on - aren't you saying that euthanasia is simply an easy route to suicide? Euthanasia is not comparable with suicide in any real sense, because it only happens to those in great pain and suffering, not just those in mental trauma (although I admit that should be reconsidered too). Suicide is only for those depressed with life, and although the boundary may be fuzzy, there is a boundary between euthanasia and suicide.
My opinion: legalise euthanasia. Although there will be many debates about where suicide stops and euthanasia begins, and also maybe even court appearances for unsure cases, it is really the patient's right. Anyone has the right to do what they like. You could buy twelve bottles of vodka and get completely smashed, or you could buy thousands of cigarettes and destroy your lungs, or you could go and buy two bottles of paracetamol (two bottles is the legal limit) and overdose, or you could go and work with anthrax, or anything like that, legally (within age restrictions) - but as soon as you find an intended death by any of these methods it becomes illegal. Why?
The one thing that makes me unsure of euthanasia is the implications that we should legalise suicide following on from that. Suicide is different (but related), and we shouldn't really treat them as the same entity. Same with murder. As long as the patient consents (in writing, in front of witnesses, etc.) euthanasia should be legal.
Phew... long reply.
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Ginger on 02-22-2004 at 06:40 PM
im not sure about the legal rights to it and all that, but i can give my opinion and personal views
If sumone is really sick, say has cancer, and know they dont have too long to live, i think its best to use the option of Euthanasia, since it will stop their suffering
If sumone has a good chance of living and simply wants to die, i wouldnt do it, since it wouldnt just affect them
It likes the same thing with suicide, if you are in the hospital and are in pain, you want to die, but if you are gone, it wouldnt just affect you and it becomes a selfish act
[no subject] by Meksilon on 02-23-2004 at 06:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Excuse me, but that is rubbish... A patient can be in great stress and pain before he dies. If someone is in hospital having great stress and pain, counting the last days and takes this desicion he doesn't need any psychological help, he wants to rest in peace...
Originally posted by thekid
But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.
Okay, I don't want to go into too many details here, but maybe I'll just give you the blob model so we're on the same plane.
This is basically a representation of what someone is compared to who they think they are. The blob is who you really are, this is your true self. The house is who you think you are, this is your self concept. And half of it isn't even in the blob. So psychologically speaking a person knows very little about himself. And then there's the area of illusion - which is who he thinks he is, but he isn't. Your self concept develops between he ages of 3 and 5, and for the rest of your life you protect, maintain and enhance it. Yes, there are ways to grow - to know more about yourself, however we're talking average joe here.
A person is making a decision based on their self concept. If you don't think it exists, we can test it with human emotions, like say embarrassment. Embarrassment is when someone is very self conscious and has let someone else see a part of their blob they want to pretend doesn't exist. Often they do not attribute that part of the blob to their self concept, since mostly good things go into it. People are hostile about who they think they are, and it impairs their vision to make clear and wise decisions. For instance an anorexic who thinks she's fat will starve herself and throw up trying to loose weight. But if only she realised that she's only fat in her area of illusion and that actually in her blob she is far far underweight! No I do not believe in euthanasia.
Daniel
RE: by billywoods1 on 02-23-2004 at 07:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
This is basically a representation of what someone is compared to who they think they are. The blob is who you really are, this is your true self. The house is who you think you are, this is your self concept. And half of it isn't even in the blob. So psychologically speaking a person knows very little about himself. And then there's the area of illusion - which is who he thinks he is, but he isn't. Your self concept develops between he ages of 3 and 5, and for the rest of your life you protect, maintain and enhance it. Yes, there are ways to grow - to know more about yourself, however we're talking average joe here.
A person is making a decision based on their self concept. If you don't think it exists, we can test it with human emotions, like say embarrassment. Embarrassment is when someone is very self conscious and has let someone else see a part of their blob they want to pretend doesn't exist. Often they do not attribute that part of the blob to their self concept, since mostly good things go into it. People are hostile about who they think they are, and it impairs their vision to make clear and wise decisions. For instance an anorexic who thinks she's fat will starve herself and throw up trying to loose weight. But if only she realised that she's only fat in her area of illusion and that actually in her blob she is far far underweight! No I do not believe in euthanasia.
Daniel
Uh... blob? Couldn't you come up with a better name for such an arbitrary theory?
Let's say my house is completely outside the blob. No, let's say it's many miles away, in a small barn in Yorkshire. Now let's assume my blob has terminal cancer and is in great pain. This is a pretty screwed blob. It has nothing left to live for, no hope of becoming a nice healthy blob again. It has several weeks left of pain and agony before it finally plasmolises. Should it wait those weeks?
So now let's assume it's not prepared to wait those weeks. What does it do? Have a blobby party, meet up with some blobby friends and get blobby pissed? Don't think so. It's lying there on the blobby bed, with its blob family around it, all wishing it would be out of pain. Let's face it: it's going to die anyway; it's in great pain; it's not a hell of a lot of good just lying there. So now tell me where your house theory fits in?
Oh, and by the way, in the meantime, my house spontaneously blew up, didn't anyone notice? Of course not. My blob didn't care about telling anyone how great it was, it was dying in torture and quite frankly didn't give a shit about bragging about its personality and general blobbiness.
But wait - replace 'blob' with something more suitable - 'human' maybe - and it suddenly makes sense!
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Meksilon on 02-23-2004 at 08:07 AM
Well it's a blob because who you are is fluid and changes rapidly - but your self concept does not change much at all since the age of 5 except to protect, maintain and enhance.
=mek=
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by kangie on 02-23-2004 at 02:01 PM
if the person genuinely wishes to die, and has considered for a while, then let them, there is no natural law saying we should live until we die of natural causes.... its your life, if you wanna die, then do, if you live your life for other people, then you'll never become the person youre destined to be! i really cant be bothered to go into details, but when i act the way i want, and not how im expected to act, i feel happier!
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Weyzza on 02-23-2004 at 11:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I apologize then for calling the kid's comments rubbish. But I keep my standpoint. (as the kid will do also of course)...
Thank you, CookieRevised.
I really appreciate that.
Well, at least, I know some of the reasons from people who are pro-euthanasia now.
CookieRevised, we know that we live in different part of world. You live in the capital of euthanasia. That may affect your view, besides your maturity in age and experiences.
Maybe, my view will change someday.
And I'd like to thank Omaaar, who became our mediator, although he didn't have the same view with me.
Edit: I forgot something...
for CookieRevised...
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by ^_^ on 02-24-2004 at 02:13 AM
I think it really sucks 
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Tochjo on 02-24-2004 at 07:50 AM
quote:Can you explain why you think it does?
Originally posted by ^_^
I think it really sucks
RE: Euthanasia Whats your view by Wabz on 02-24-2004 at 01:53 PM
Euthenasia in my eyes is really a dignified death. People get to a point when there terminally ill when pain becomes to much and they suffer a lot before they die. Dogs are put to sleep because they suffer why not humans?
It's a lot different from suicide as familys are involved and the pain of losing a loved one is a lot less knowing they died happily instead of in pain