Today at 6:30 (GMT, 7:30 (AM)  in Spain) thirteen bombs blasted three metropolitan trains. 200 victims died, 34 were deadly injured and more than 1450 were wounded. Among them, as you can imagine, even children going to school. This happened at important stations in Madrid (Atocha was the most affected).

The European Parliament set European Terrorism Victims' Day on 11-M in support to all victims of this terrible act.

As you'll read in the newspapers or in following liks, politicians blame the terrorist group Freedom for the Basque Country (aka ETA) but the political wing of ETA blames the Islamic Resistance Al-Qaeda. Nothing's sure for now.
Al-Qaeda claimed the crime at a British newspaper

(latest stats: 7558 days, 21 hours, 28 minutes, 34 seconds ago)



Anyway, I just want to express my condolences to all victims and their families

RECQUIESCAT IN PACE


Some news can be read @:
http://www.time.com/time/europe/eu/article/0,13716,599760,00.html
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story...40%255E910,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49446-2004Mar11.html (<- objection to this one: Aznar was never seen as hero)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1064248.htm
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4517018/
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FE9B0173-2B5A-421E-9ECA-54DF46AA8AAC.htm
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=76605&Sn=WORL

Thanks Choli for correcting
Thanks Tochjo for correcting
Added Choli's additional information
Added jpg050's additional information
Added Pappapishu's additional information

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
three bombs blasted three metropolitan trains.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
At least 185 persons died and 900 were wounded (latest stats).

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Anyway, I just want to express my condolences to all victims and their families

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Corrected, I just read it before reading your post . The number of wounded grew to a thousand...

God bless the victims... (for those who belive in God, tbh I actually don't, but I respect the victims' beliefs)

Oh my goodness....

Thirteen bombs blasted in three crowded paces in rush hour?
The bomber(s) must be very crazy...

i would like to give my condolences to all of the families and freinds of the victims, Rest In Peace

My condolences to all of those who lost their lives, or knew someone who got hurt.

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
GMT 19:30

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tochjo
You mean GMT 18:30

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When I'd first heard it was only one station. Then during a talk today we were told the number had risen to 173 ( the fact the talk was by our Blood Transfusion Service had absolutely nothing to do with it) and I had to leave the room for a few minutes to gather myself before going back in and no one could understand what was wrong.
How anyone could do what hapen in Madrid I will never know but my heart goes out with condolences to those who have lost loved ones today.....

Latest news say 190 people died, 40 are seriously injured and will probably die soon. There are 1500+ injured people. As you can see, there are more and more killed and injured people.

Also it seems ETA isn't who did that. The group Al-Qaeda has sent a letter to a newspaper of UK claiming the responsibility for the attack. I personally think the responsible has been Al-Qaeda.

I haven't heard about this Woa

Here (in Argentina) there were attacks like this by Arabic groups in 1992 (in the Israeli embassy) and in 1994 (in a jewish organization) with around 100 and 200 deaths respectively, so we kinda know how that feels. Plus, lots of argentines are living in Spain and Argentina is full of spanish inmigrants, so the two countries are quite close to each other and everybody is quite shocked at this.

My condolences.

(everyone is appending "X" to his nick at the beggining to show their support against the attacks in MSN Messenger, feel free to do it)

i hope the people responsible for this get caught, lets hope for the actions of a few people we DO NOT over-react and go and bomb the fk out of another country. Afghanistan/Iraq


War solves nothing

Peace

This is truely a sad thing that had to happen, I don't see how these people are accomplishing anything besides death.

*Sticky likes peace, and bloody avators

It's perhaps the most horrific event this year and I pray it's the last.  RIP to those who have died

Tried to answer yesterday but Internet was down, at least locally. Thanks Choli for telling me.
Mortal victims are 199 by now, and I particularly could have taken that train, or been in that station. A friend of mine problably saved his life because he got asleep yesterday. It's still uncertain who is the author and personally I believe Mr "Ansar", president of the Spanish Republic, is hiding some info, at least until the Sunday elections are over. Don't know who has been, but frankly I don't care. Don't really know what do some people have inside their head, well muslim terrorists, well ETA, well that president who goes bombarding countries to make oil cheaper, or well that other that wants to be a cowboy and joins him (and later mixes the oil with water, to make it even cheaper, I suppose) ...

My condolences for everybody who has been affected by this tragedy. We'll see how does this end...

This kind of terrorist attack is always tragic...it makes you wish people could just express their views and never resort to terrorism, but that's just an ideal world.
Al-Qaeda have admitted responsibility but I'm not sure that it was them...I think they could have just said it was them so they don't have to do anything themselves, we're sure to find out in the following days.

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050that president who goes bombarding countries to make oil cheaper, or well that other that wants to be a cowboy and joins him (and later mixes the oil with water, to make it even cheaper, I suppose)

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I just arrived from the silent and solemn demonstration in Barcelona against terrorism. I still don't know how many people were there, but from Diagonal to Plaça Catalunya, the whole Passeig de Gràcia was crowded (Passeig de Gràcia represents NY's 5th Av. or Paris' Av. des Champs Elisées in witdh, at least). So there was about 1,5km-1mi (maybe not so long, but other streets like Diagonal or Aragón were crowded aswell) whith the whole crowd rejecting the terrorist act(s) occured yesterday.

It was very emotive.

I actualized the first post with the latest information, but I can't keep looking for more news... It makes me feel kinda sick of all, so if you find any interesting articles feel free to post it or to PM it so I add it to the first post.

Thanks for your support and specially to jpg, who firts-person experienced it.

I still can't believe it.

Argentina is with Spain.

My condolences to all the victims and their families.

i've arrived from madrid's demonstration and, despite the (incredibly) heavy rain, 2.3million people have hit the streets to show they are fed up with terrorim, war and all...just hope all this is of any use.

i would start by not voting ansar again...(i never have, just for those who did)

my support to anyone directly or indirectly related to this tragedy

i too died in that train....

Here in Argentina a simultaneous manifestation took place supporting the spanish ones:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/hoy/um/m-723358.htm
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/04/03/12/dx_580937.asp

quote:

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Originally posted by saralk
Why do people have to go off on unrealted rants, this topic is about the tradgedy that happened yesterday. Lets first think about that, and give the politics a rest.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
A friend of mine problably saved his life because he got asleep yesterday.

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quote:

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I believe Mr "Ansar", president of the Spanish Republic, is hiding some info, at least until the Sunday elections are over. Don't know who has been

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quote:

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(and later mixes the oil with water, to make it even cheaper, I suppose) ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sticky
i hope the people responsible for this get caught, lets hope for the actions of a few people we DO NOT over-react and go and bomb the fk out of another country. Afghanistan/Iraq

War solves nothing

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i dont know what to say any longer...just one question to ask...why?

There's no "because".

i do not doubt their innocence...this time, i think it's all been al Quaedas' doing. Al thx to ansar

quote:

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Originally posted by Guido
It's very how the Spanish government *too obviously* says "no no no no no, believe us, it WAS the ETA". They are sinking themselves... Aznar knows that if Al-qaeda was the author, his position in Sunday's election is completely lost.

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not offended at all, in fact i am of the same opinion...except in barcelona there were 21 instead of 20 victims...

i do have the right to vote and i'm going to use it, i will use it against PP, against war, against terror, because i know voting mr ansar's succesor, rajoy will be really voting bush, and i will like a spaniard to be the one to screw everything up, 'cause, let's face it in these elections there isn't a correct option, just some lesser evils

I'll support your vote, whatever it is, as long it is against PP. I'm about to correct the wrong number of victims, thanks.

Edit: [offtopic]Dane also hearing Evanescence [/offtopic]
Edit2: Supporting Pappapishu's new avatar (reminds me my hands few hours ago... sadly)

tragic. But scarry how western Europe has been hit now. No1 is safe anymore

ETA are great sons of b*tch*s, but i doubt even them are capable of such atrocities, this must be those fanatic muslims...

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
I'm impressed of how well informed you are!

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quote:

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I just told this for you to see that if PP makes Spain believe it was ETA, many Spaniards will go and vote them, because of them being the most important party against nationalism.

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What a pity that I can't vote for exactly three weeks...

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Anyway... A lot of argueing aboit politics won't take the victims again to life... so there's no point of going on discussing this.

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Edit: afaik, I think ETA helped al-Qaeda in preparing this for two reasosns:

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quote:

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Originally posted by ---+[Matty]+---
My best friends cousins dad works for the UN and indirectly told his son that they had caught Sadam a week earlier then aired it, and that "they have bin laden already" but then again he isn't able to say directly but hinted to it, so we will see if it is true. As well a physic says they will find him dead so take this for what its worth lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
let's face it in these elections there isn't a correct option, just some lesser evils

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quote:

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Originally posted by Guido
nd if the rest of the press makes Spain believe it was Al Qaeda, people will realise those people died because of Spain helping USA in the war in Iraq and therefore vote anyone but Aznar.

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well i'll prefer the responsibles to be al qaeda because if it's eta then it's gonna be repeated several times in spain, getting even bigger, if it's al qaeda, well....they got their vengance, hope they're happy

Well, maybe...
But they appreciated Spanish help (I still dunno what kinda help ).

Some months after 11-S Police found the economical head of al-Qaeda... in my neighbourhood!!
But anyway... they knew whole Spain was against war, but PP

quote:

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Originally posted by Guido

quote:

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Originally posted by DaneSmith
No One has Realized!
8473 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes, 34 seconds ago
Exactly 911 Days between the Madrid Train Blasts and September 11th, 2001.

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holy shit

I noticed it was exactly 2.5 years, but never counted the days

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sticky
with the letter sent to the newspaper, saying the next atack is 90% complete, i'll be staying home on the 1000th day anniversary of 9/11 .... which would be on the 4th June 2004 

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sorry meant to mean 7th June 04

Bad maths then

Sorry for the long post:

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
Thanks Choli for telling me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
It's still uncertain who is the author and personally I believe Mr "Ansar", president of the Spanish Republic, is hiding some info, at least until the Sunday elections are over. Don't know who has been

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quote:

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Originally posted by saralk
Why do people have to go off on unrealted rants, this topic is about the tradgedy that happened yesterday. Lets first think about that, and give the politics a rest

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
i would start by not voting ansar again...(i never have, just for those who did)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Guido
It's very  how the Spanish government *too obviously* says "no no no no no, believe us, it WAS the ETA". They are sinking themselves... Aznar knows that if Al-qaeda was the author, his position in Sunday's election is completely lost.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
just one question to ask...why?

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quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
There's no "because".

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Edit: afaik, I think ETA helped al-Qaeda in preparing this for two reasosns:

-An ETA van caught some weeks ago with about 100kg dynamite they were taking to Atocha.
-Some pamphlets by Eta were distributed in the Basque Country some days before encouraging Basques to boycott the urban train.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DaneSmith
No One has Realized!
8473 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes, 34 seconds ago
Exactly 911 Days between the Madrid Train Blasts and September 11th, 2001.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
ETA are great sons of b*tch*s, but i doubt even them are capable of such atrocities, this must be those fanatic muslims...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Guido
And if the rest of the press makes Spain believe it was Al Qaeda, people will realise those people died because of Spain helping USA in the war in Iraq and therefore vote anyone but Aznar.

However, as I said, it's too obvious that they are just trying to wash the population's brains... c'mon, minutes after the attacks they already "were sure" it was ETA?

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
There's sadly a lot of influence in press and lots of newspapers supporting PP, so yesterday, after newspapers special editions almost everybody was sure it was ETA, but today people start to doubt, that's a good thing... But I'm very afraid of being Al-Qaeda the authors, because they're a lot more despicable. At least we know what ETA wants, but Al-Qaeda just wants revenge...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
well i'll prefer the responsibles to be al qaeda because if it's eta then it's gonna be repeated several times in spain, getting even bigger, if it's al qaeda, well....they got their vengance, hope they're happy

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I was quite surprised when they at least "mentioned" the theory of Al-qaeda's and that the government was constantly trying to diminish it in CNN/Canal+ (they replaced CNN en Español here with the broadcast of Spain's CNN+, made me remember 9/11/2001 when MTV (!) stopped its grid and replaced it with New York's CBS for about 3 days)

quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
Sorry for the long post:

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quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
just that... he wrote in a better english than I can do

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quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
Just that. If I were they, I couldn't be so rotter (sinvergüenza?) to stay living here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
are you from spain?

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quote:

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Originally posted by their authours
Some posts far above about maths

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i am from spain, more exactly madrid, and i'd like to say that were PP to suffer an humilliating defeat tomorrow at the elections al qaeda will have no reason to continue attacking us, 'cause as they said in their letter their grudge is against ansar so if there is no trail of him or his fellow party.men then.....

i also think there is no point in doing all those math about the days passes from 11-S because it will only make you more unconfortable and get you nowhere.

Don't worry about long posts there's too much to say an so little words to express it....

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Indeed, hope you got some sleep after that

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
*cough*babylon*cough*

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Yes, he had the well-known "No a la GUERRA" in his avatar

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
i also think there is no point in doing all those math about the days passes from 11-S because it will only make you more unconfortable and get you nowhere.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
am from spain, more exactly madrid

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nice meeting you too, i'd just wish it had been under other circumstances

btw, victim number 200 died recently, is there an end to this meaningless slaughter?

Nice to meet a paisano, too
Sadly the victim number keeps on growing. I'll edit my post, as usual.
Are there newer stats I might be adding, too?


* KeyStorm thinks of making a Spanish Support Forum for all requests of Latinamerica, USA and Spain (and others who might express themselves better in Spanish, who knows).
* KeyStorm writes this in little typo because it maybe had been suggested before...

where u from keystorm? btw, nice taste in music!

maybe you shouldn't edit your post just now, wait a little until the real responsible comes to light

I'm just editing it constantly to keep the stats up to date.
I'm from Barcelona.
And I'm very of not being able to vote tomorrow!!!

Well... let's see if they find out something today.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
btw, nice taste in music!

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i'd like to thank all non-spaniards who wrote here for their concern and support, because, even thought this isnt a strictly spanish problem it happened here and every one should react now before it's too late

i have to express also my deception with the way our politics are handling the situation, they say it's a threat against democracy(if it were then the senate or the president it self would have been attacked) or economy (then why didn't they attack the picasso tower or stick exchange??) no, the attacked a train full o middle or low class people, and if they wanted they could've blown the station with 5thousand people, so this was just a demonstration of what they can do!

together we can win

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm

* KeyStorm thinks of making a Spanish Support Forum for all requests of Latinamerica, USA and Spain (and others who might express themselves better in Spanish, who knows).

* KeyStorm writes this in little typo because it maybe had been suggested before...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
where u from keystorm? btw, nice taste in music!

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i'd rather stay here and expressing myself in english so every one can understand how we feel and also express their opinions here

NO, Choli meant that all offtopics we were doing we could go on in that thread, like the music thing or the Spanish support forum. And as we're Spanish there's talked in Spanish (it's T&T anyway).

Here we should post more serious things about 11-M...

Sorry for double posting, but I thought it deserved an own post.
Google España added the Black ribbon in remembrance of the masacre in Madrid.

I just received this e-mail I'm about to translate, but first you can read it in Spanish:

quote:

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Tod@s estamos conmocionad@s por lo sucedido en Madrid el pasado dia 11 de
Marzo. En primer momento se le atribuía el atentado a ETA, por eso añadieron
"por la constitución" en el lema de la manifestación.



Posteriormente empezaron a aparecer indicios de que el atentado podía haber
sido atríbuido a un grupo terrorista islámico, pero ETA como principal
sospechosa, (para no perjudicar su campaña electoral) por las siguientes
pruebas que se han dado a conocer:

1-. El que según el Gobierno es el brazo político de ETA, ya desde el
principio desmintió la autoria del atentado de la banda terrorista.

2-. El detonador guardado en la mochila es muy indicativo. Se trata de uno
idéntico a los siete hallados en el interior de la furgoneta abandonada en
Alcalá de Henares, donde también se encontró una cinta grabada con
versículos del Corán. Se trata de unos ingenios de cobre, El detonador
encontrado es de cobre (de la casa Rio Tinto), ETA usa detonadores de
aluminio.

3-. El explosivo usado en la matanza, fue goma-2, ese explosivo  lleva ETA
sin usarlo unos 16 años en sus atentados, hasta hoy ETA siempre ha usado
Titadine.

4-. El detonador estaba conectado formando un circuito con el movil y
codificado para estallar con la alarma del movil (esquema no usado por ETA y
bastante complicado)

5-. La carta enviada a Londres, que expertos del Reino Unido han confirmado
su veracidad, aquí adjunto unos extractos:

- “Hemos logrado con éxito infiltrarnos en el corazón de Europa y destruir
uno de los principales pilares de la alianza de los cruzados, España”.

- “Aznar, ¿dónde esta ahora América?, ¿quién te protegerá de nosotros: Reino
Unido, Japón, Italia...?”.

- “Esto es una manera de ajustar viejas cuentas con España, cruzado y aliado
de América en su guerra contra el Islam”.

- “"Nosotros, las Brigadas de Abu Hafs al-Masri, no sentimos pena por los
denominados civiles".

- "Si está bien para vosotros matar a nuestros niños, mujeres, ancianos y
jóvenes en Afganistán, Irak, Palestina y Cachemira, ¿por qué nos estaría
vedado a nosotros matar a los vuestros?".





6-. Al parecer el mismo Etarra que habló sobre el asunto de Carod ha
desmentido la vinculación de la banda terrorista con el atentado de Madrid.
En ese momento Mayor Oreja dijo: ETA mata pero no miente , ¿curiosa
contradicción, cierto?



7-. El estado acaba de desplegar su maquinária de desinformación, con la
ayuda de la "Berlusconiana" Tele 5, Antena 3,Tve1, la Razón... (entre otros)
añadiendo confusión entre la población, mientras que la prensa de fuera de
España, señala Al-Qaeda como la autora de la masacre además de hacerse eco
de que el gobierno español está tratando de esconder la verdad, para que no
influya en la intención de voto.






8-. El Centro Nacional de Inteligencia (CNI) cree que los atentados del 11-M
son obra del terrorismo islámico, según ha podido confirmar la Cadena SER en
fuentes de los servicios de inteligencia. Las mismas fuentes han confirmado
que los agentes del CNI trabajan "al 99% de posibilidades" con la hipótesis
de que nos encontramos ante un atentado de corte radical-islamista cometido
por un grupo numeroso(...)











Vamos a hacer un poco de memoria sobre la guerra de Iraq:


El 90% de los españoles en contra de la guerra. Se recogieron firmas contra
la guerra. Un joven gritó "No a la guerra" a Aznar en un mitín. El Delegado
del Gobierno prohíbió la manifestación contra la guerra en Iraq. Más de
siete millones de personas salieron a la calle para decir “No a la guerra”.
Un policía agredió salvajemente a una manifestante que pedía auxilio, sólo
le costó cinco días de sanción, una burla. The New York Times denunció la
censura por parte de TVE de las manifestaciones pacifistas en toda España.

La Xunta amenazó con expedientes a los colegios que pusiesen carteles contra
la guerra. El PP pidió cinco años de cárcel para un profesor universitario
que abrió una web contra la guerra.


Con mentiras respecto a las armas de destrucción masiva, nos llevaron a la
guerra. El jefe de los inspectores de EEUU dijo que Iraq no tenía ADM. Los
servicios secretos españoles advirtieron a Aznar de las exageraciones sobre
Sadam.

(...)

Se nos había dicho que la guerra serviría para:

1) que los iraquíes gozaran de mayor libertad: 17.488 detenidos, 412
ejecutados sin ningún juicio, 620 casos de tortura de ciudadanos que se han
quedado inválidos para trabajar, 6.100 personas en paradero desconocido, 179
asesinados sin tener relación alguna con la resistencia y 266 viviendas
destruidas. (fuente).
2) conseguir que la paz global avance.
Atentado en Madrid, 200 muertos y 1400 heridos.

El gobierno que nos mintió respecto a las armas de destrucción masiva, que
nos mintió respecto al Prestige, que nos mintió respecto a la huelga
genreral del 20J y cuya cadena (TVE) fue condenada al respecto por la
justicia y señalada como ejemplo de manipulación informativa por el Consejo
de Europa, nos dice que finaliza su campaña electoral y que "sin ninguna
duda" ETA es responsable del horrible atentado en Madrid.

(...)


Fragmentos Extraídos de la bitácora de Cocoloco en Barrapunto. Puedes ver el
documento con sus enlaces en
http://barrapunto.com/journal.pl?op=display&uid=6734&id=3909





Y el objetivo de toda la confusión, es para conseguir que la gente siga
votando al Partido Popular, un partido que nos ha metido en una guerra a la
cual todos nos oponíamos y ahora estamos recojiendo sus frutos.

Ya no tenemos sólo a 1 grupo terrorista al que temer, sinó a 2, Al Qaeda no
es una organizacion terrorista tan simple como pueda ser ETA, financia a mas
132 organizaciones terroristas que operan en multitud de paises y lo que es
aun peor, son mucho mas peligrosos q ETA pues estos no temen a la muerte y
son capaces de inmolarse.

Además ha dejado en evidencia la seguridad del estado y los terroristas,
siguen en la calle por lo que pueden volver a actuar.

Nosotros, los ciudadanos, sólo nos queda mañana ejercer nuestro derecho de
voto y hacerlo en contra del Partido Popular.


¡¡¡ Que no vuelvan nunca más !!! Que no nos traten como estúpidos, ellos
tienen la culpa,  Echemos al PP del gobierno de una vez !!! y para ello haz llegar este correo a tanta gente como te sea posible

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cant listen to the radio any more...so many lies, so many threats, so much SHIT....

Sorry for the delay...

My condolences to all our spanish forumers....


This sucks...

Omar

This is a terrible terrible incident and they are looking into Al Quaidas role in the act.


My condolences to anyone who knew anybody who was lost in this accident. May they be in our prayers.

Socialism has won, Aznar, well, not.

quote:

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Originally posted by Guido
Socialism has won, Aznar, well, not.

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i'm no too into socialism but it was worth it just to see the faces of defeat on the members of PP muajajaja

Seems that terroism has won the war against spain. The spanish have retreated.

its all george bushes fault, hes an idiot, dosnt deserve presedency

quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
Seems that terroism has won the war against spain. The spanish have retreated.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
Seems that terroism has won the war against spain. The spanish have retreated.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
we were against the war in irak, it has NOTHING to do with the last events

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What a pity reporting your post will be useless...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
do you speak for 100% of your country?

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
affected by external unpredictable factors

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quote:

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Originally posted by J_Mac
Seems that terroism has won the war against spain. The spanish have retreated.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
If no one has commented on WestCoastKillaz post why should mine be singled out?

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Other posts of mine where deleted for much less, I know, but well.

Pappapishu speaks for 92% of the country.
Socialists would have won anyway, but maybe the difference wouldn't have been so huge, why?
PP, the former govenrment manpulated information and blamed ETA from the beginning. Blaming ETA might result in better electoral results  for them, because they are the whole opposite of nationalism.
But sadly the truth got to the light and the finally had to say it was probably Al-Qaeda, but with priority set on ETA. Today noone has a doubt it was Al-Qaeda. Spanish Secret Services said it was very likely that is was no ETA, but anyway, PP kept blaming them and manipulating TV-channels, and newsletters to make us believe it was ETA and gain some votes more.
As said this came to light and the rage against PP was big (as it was with the war, with the constant TV manipulation, with the Prestige wreck, etc.).

So while respecting the victims in your shoes I wouldn't had said it, at least in the way you did. Of course I respect your opinion, but there are ways to say things (you know, you actually are smod and know things can be said in many different ways).

On the other hand,  WestCoastKillaz or whatever his name is is now banned, I think ir makes not much sense to discuss about what he said. And I think the post can be deleted. I actually thought the post was already reported for unappropiate use of language.

Finally, some comments that make sence! I see, and understand all those Choli and KeyStorm.

I'm just wondering why a new leading before he's even sworn in (or whatever you call that process in spain) attacks other world leaders. I'm just questioning if what has happened with the politics in spain over the past few days has been fuled on personal emotion rather then country well being.

I started typing my reply before your post was thre, sorry. I edited mine now though.

btw, any problems with posts being removed as mentioned in one of your earlier posts should be questioned at the time. Forum rules don't ban swearing either, as long as it's used in moderation. I feel removing WestCoastKillaz would be hypocritical as it's his right to free speach; and it isnt preaching.

Well Johnny. nice to see you get our point

fell free to ask us anything you don't understand

quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
I feel removing WestCoastKillaz would be hypocritical as it's his right to free speach; and it isnt preaching.

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I don't look for or enjoy arguments. I just like to question and see other points of view. While expressing my own. In no way do I see the way I see as the end all of everything. I know the world is full of different cultures and opinions. I should say thanks to yous for sharing those!

well, i like the climat of understanding that's going on here, but i still feel insulted by johnny's comments. He speaks of spaniards as people who cower before terrorism, but that's not the case, whe have suffered terrorism since year dot and we have demonstrated soma backbone, this time hasn't been an exception. If the vote has changed it's been because it had to change due to the last government's wreckless behaviour, ignoring compltetly the people's wishes

I feel those comments are more about understanding then insulting. If I remove them the rest of this thread with some decent points will be messed up. So i'm leaving them there, sorry if your insulted by them.

My final thoughts on this, which is a question which just raises thoughts and not a one i want really answering is:

With whats happened in spain, has an election been fueled on personal emotion rather then country well being?

i'm not asking you to remove it

I haven't been following this thread, and don't really want to pore through it, but a couple of comments...

quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
this is the biggest massacre in the history of Spain

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
With whats happened in spain, has an election been fueled on personal emotion rather then country well being?

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quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
Not really, when you think of things like the Guernica bombings in the Spanish civil war.  I'm not disagreeing that the whole situation is a terrible thing, but hype like that doesn't really do justice to that.  Shakespeare's Sonnet 130 comes to mind...

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Of course he meant the worst terrorist outrage, Guernica was a Nazi attack in the Spanish Civil War. It can't be seen as terrorism in the same way.
Anyway we can say it's the biggest massacre in the history of the European Union. And that's why they considered to set on that day the day of the terrorism victims.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
With whats happened in spain, has an election been fueled on personal emotion rather then country well being?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Choli
Yep. Also, about it being the biggest massacre in EU that is also true. (since 2nd world war)

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quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Afaik there wasn't EU in the WWII

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sure, if you speack of historic massacres you'll surely find many bigger, but we were talking about the union's history, and besides, gernica wouldn't count because that was in the middle of a war, and during wars the 'rules' change, and instead of a massacre it's called a 'victory' or 'defeat'

anyway, i might agree that this has influenced the elections but PSOE was in front of PP in every poll, maybe this has only widen the difference, but the effect would have been the same if the elections were 2 weeks later because spain was begging to see what PP really was, pitty their eyes had to be open by a thing like this

quote:

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Originally posted by Pappapishu
besides, gernica wouldn't count because that was in the middle of a war, and during wars the 'rules' change, and instead of a massacre it's called a 'victory' or 'defeat'

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quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
A lot of historians would disagree with that... it was one of the first uses of bombs which caused true mass destruction, and the town was quite literally razed to the ground in a matter of a few air raids, civilians and all.  It wasn't really provoked either; Hitler's main intent was to see how effective the raids would be, and the only victory was yet again evading the league of nations

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dwergs says:
  Last week's rail bomb attacks in Madrid have claimed the lives of 200 people and injured more than 1,400. People are expressing their sympathies for the victims of this disaster by putting a lowercase "x" in front of their MSN Messenger display names. They're told to do so by a "chain instant message" (call it SPIM if you want) forwarded via MSN Messenger from contact to contact. Another version of the message commands the letter l instead, which stands for Liberty.

A more recent, rather humorous instant chain message claims "x" is a serious insult in the Timbuktu language and asks to replace the letter with "y".

Jokes aside, Mess.be's thoughts are with the victims and their families.

[Reported by: DarthBrummie & Huuf]

Documentation... www.mess.be

there's also been a couple of people putting an L to symbolize liberty at the begging of the nick, i have both xL

AZNAR plis stop the lies!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by pablotossi
AZNAR plis stop the lies!!!!!!!!!!

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that doesn't gurantee that he wont lie anymore...

that's true, but at least if he lies, his lies won't be so bad for spanish people

hope so, he's ansar, he can find a way to keep screwing things up

I just want to remind everyone that our hearts are still bleeding one year after this terrible and unfair tragedy.

We all were in that train, and a little piece of everyone's life was taken away.

Yeah, we know and still can't believe something like this happened

I remember that day, I had to study for History, just as when the 11-S attacks happened...

quote:

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
I just want to remind everyone that our hearts are still bleeding one year after this terrible and unfair tragedy.

We all were in that train, and a little piece of everyone's life was taken away.

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Terrorism is not the way...but i dont think Ocidental countrys and midle east will ever be compatible..and i think they make a big mistake that fucks it up(that we catholics have done before in the inquisition(dont know if that's the way u call it in english)) and that thing is messing politics with religion which allways confuses what they are trying to prove, cause if you see it, it's their way to show their opinion cause no one cares shit about them..(this speach was the most peacefull of my life i think..)...anyway terrorist acts suck and therefore the spanish government should do evrything they could to find out who really was behind it and blow those fuckers up...(at least that's what i think)..btw i live near to spain for those who dont know, portugal is on side of spain..

Worst part for me is having to share a birthday with that tragic event.