You know, everone that I've talked to installed MsgPlus! the first time with the sponsor software and all of them said it messed with their computer and they hated it. Many people uninstalled Plus! because of it and only re-installed it after I told them how to keep the problems from comming back (the problems DID stop when they uninstalled at least). I personally had to remove it the first time because it messed with my network's internet filter and was creating some 1000 "hits" (blocked or unauthorized internet requests) every hour.

It seems to me that if you want people to agree to allow the sponsor ads you might want to consider changing the way it works. (Having never personally actually SEEN the program in action--because my filter stopped it--I don't know exactly what it does) But it seems that if you give people the option of turing it on or off at any time and let them CHOOSE what kind of ads come to them, then ask them to support Plus! by allowing some ads, you'd get a lot more people using it. (I'm assuming that the sponsor is paying based partly on how many people install with their ads.)

If you allow them to turn it on or off at any  time, let them choose a few things that interest them, maybe even let them choose how often ads appear people would probably be more willing to tolerate it...

Just a thought.

~The Entomologist

The sponsor program is 100% optional and this is made clear in the installer…and Patchou puts the sponsor program in so he can get money and I don’t blame him I mean look at how much effort he puts in to Plus!...he needs some money in return

Oh, I absolutely agree (THANK YOU PATCHOU!) What I'm saying isn't that he should consider dumping it, I'm saying that if he's paid by how much it's used it might be better if he still gives the option, but makes it more friendly so that people are more LIKELY to allow it to send ads.

What I mean is, I don't give a hoot about diet pills, dating services, casinos etc. But I might be interested in ads for some other areas, say maybe online shopping just as an example. If people know what they are getting they are more likely to agree to allow ads. If they didn't have to uninstall to stop the ads, that would be good too.

The Entomologist

Nah. This sponsor he uses is good in the way it’s optional and totally removable…and most people don’t install it

quote:

---

Originally posted by anubis_kree_
Nah. This sponsor he uses is good in the way it’s optional and totally removable…and most people don’t install it

---

As long as I know, the sponsor shows adds in function of the pages you visit, you the adds shown should be similar to what you're browsing so you like them... again, that's what i think...

quote:

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Originally posted by theloginisbroken
But it seems that if you give people the option of turing it on or off at any time

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZrednaZ

Seems like you're missing the point.

I agree with theloginisbroken... if the sponsor program was customizable so it displayed interesting and relevant stuff depending upon the person's interests (in my case IT-related stuff and online shopping), people could actually get something useful out of installing it, thus not uninstalling it again shortly after installation (which of course also means more money for Patchou).

//ZrednaZ

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kian
I prefer that the installation should be changed - mostley because nobody reads it and also because it is not a logic way to ask people if they accept. People are use to accept almost everything and they know that if they do not accept it is impossible to hit Next (not in this case).
I propose that the text of the RadioButton should be changed

---

To the two posters above me, please spamming, keep it for T&T and to any mod Please remove Kian's avatar as its an SWF File that takes forever to load then its not even found on the server.

Thanks

Anyways all the people should be happy that the option is there to not install the Sponsor. What about programs like Kazaa who install "New Dot Not", "Gator", "n-Case" and others. I dont hear you guys complaining about that whos installation is hidden and is installed once you agree to the license agreement.

So please before you critic something, think of the people doing it without your knowledge then after comparing you may complain.

Oh and for the record, Its Optional again It clear stats "I ACCEPT, install Messenger Plus! with the sponsor prorgam"
"I refuse, do not install the sponsor program"


Cheers,
  Matty

I understand the suggestions and they are not bad. However, as most people who complain about the sponsor didn't even try to uninstall Messenger Plus! (which is the first thin I would personally tried).

There's two main things that are installed: a search bar and a search window. The bar is small enough in Internet Explorer not to bother you after you get used to it, and the search window can be closed for good (one of the things I requested from C2Media).

The ads are displayed according to what sites you go to. It's a simple way to ensure that you don't get tons of ads for products you dont care about (like casinos).

I wasn't suggesting that it be an automatic install, (though I agree Kian that it might mention that you can install without agreeing, though it IS thier own fault for not reading what it says). My suggestion was not critisizm of how it's being done now, only a suggestion for a way that it might be improved to make it more valuable to Patchou. At the same time as presenting the thought I also recognize that it would take time, and I don't know what Patchou's agreement is with the sponsor.

~The Entomologist

PS- how DO I get my old login back? I already tried wiping the password and it didn't work.

quote:

---

Originally posted by theloginisbroken
PS- how DO I get my old login back? I already tried wiping the password and it didn't work.

---

1. [/list]
   

   quote:

   ---

   Originally posted by ---+[Matty]+---
   To the two posters above me, please spamming, keep it for T&T and to any mod Please remove Kian's avatar as its an SWF File that takes forever to load then its not even found on the server.
   

   ---

   
   Well... actually i am a bit angry...
   
   first: do not call me a spammer. It was a comment that was ment to show that Choli often critisize posts without getting the point - and my 'smilie' was like a symbol; i-dont-want-to-comment-your-odd-negative-comment-like...
   
   second point one: you cannot even browse swf-files in this forum
   second point two: why would you want to remove my avatar if you cannot see it anyway
   second point three: please remove Matty - he does not even exist (what a silly thing to say - just like your comment - like messing around with your integrity)
   
   
   

   quote:

   ---

   Thanks
   
   Anyways all the people should be happy that the option is there to not install the Sponsor. What about programs like Kazaa who install "New Dot Not", "Gator", "n-Case" and others. I dont hear you guys complaining about that whos installation is hidden and is installed once you agree to the license agreement.
   
   So please before you critic something, think of the people doing it without your knowledge then after comparing you may complain.
   
   Oh and for the record, Its Optional again It clear stats "I ACCEPT, install Messenger Plus! with the sponsor prorgam"
   "I refuse, do not install the sponsor program"
   
   
   Cheers,
     Matty
   

   ---

   
   You are still missing the point. I have asked the Danish usenet 1000 of times and almost all of the Plus!-users installed the sponsor-program by a mistake...
   You can say that it is not your table but you still cannot ignore that users are getting angry and removes the Plus!-extension - and those who wants to avoid other users from installing the program keeps mention that Plus! is one big ad...
   
   The point is: No-one wants to read the text - you have to make it all clear through the two radiobuttons...
   
   // Peter

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kian
first: do not call me a spammer. It was a comment that was ment to show that Choli often critisize posts without getting the point

---

Well I think a good idea would be is when you click to install with the sponser another window pops up asking if your sure. That would solve this problem I'm sure. If not, well damn.

Anyways I agree with more options when it comes to the sponser program. You should be able to turn it off and on at will. Really you should be. I would use it sometimes myself. Run it at night and let it display ads. Then just run my supper ad/popup killer and its all good. hehe

Seriously I think if you let the user turn it off and on at will more people will isinstall it and you will make more money. Kinda of a shame thats what its all about but I understand. Personlly if I where you MsgPlus would of been payware a long time ago.

Mabye thats an idea.

cya,
Will

quote:

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Originally posted by war59312
Well I think a good idea would be is when you click to install with the sponser another window pops up asking if your sure. That would solve this problem I'm sure. If not, well damn.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by war59312
Seriously I think if you let the user turn it off and on at will more people will isinstall it and you will make more money. Kinda of a shame thats what its all about but I understand. Personlly if I where you MsgPlus would of been payware a long time ago.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choli

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kian
first: do not call me a spammer. It was a comment that was ment to show that Choli often critisize posts without getting the point

---

Well, I couldn't read your post because when I checked the thread it had been already deleted

Anyway, where do I criticize posts? Maybe my english isn't good enough to express exactly what I mean and then people may not understand what I want to say. Well, about that post, I've only said my personal opinion (that, of course, may be different from yours) and asked in which way you'd change the texts, because I see them quite understandable.

I am very sorry if I offended you in any way. That was not my pourpose. However you should understand that if you suggest that the texts should be changed, you should say what would be the new texts, shouldn't you? That's why I asked that.

I know and agree with you about people not reading and only clicking next, next and next..., but what can we/Patchou do? Play a very loud sound through the speakers saying "Hey!! be careful, you're gonna install the sponsor!!!"? I think you agree with me that plus has to be professional, serious software. It can't add that sound, neither a blinking red-blue background at the sponsor installation screen to make users notice it.

Once again, I do not want to despise you neither your posts. We're here to discuss our views and help each other. No offense.

Thanks and excuse me.

---

something has to be done with that sponsor problem i have just read this



'The annoying part of all of this is that Patchou himself, the creator of MSN Plus, denies lop.com as being spyware, he said “Please stop with this spyware thing, it’s just not true.” That was a huge mistake made by Patchou. I would also like to add, that if you ever require assistance in MSN Plus do not go to Patchou’s forum. Everyone there is arrogant and could care less if MSN Plus just exploded your computer. They will most likely reply with a rude answer and Patchou might even edit your post and insult you, he has done it before and im sure he would do it again.'


i don't understand why in the web where i saw this they were all against plus! They are using this sponsor program to keep people from downloading plus! and therefor missing a great add-on, and this sponsor thing is just giving them more arguments, i don't want to discuss wether it's spyware or not, that i think it isn't, but it's making patchous loose a lot of users. I also read somewhere else of a argument between patchou and someone alse that was immediately banned because he said it was spyware, please don't give plus's enemys more arguments...

Besides i think that here in the forum people are willing to help, or at least when i needed help

lol, may I ask where did you read such a thing?

Don't worry about it, internet is a world where everybody can say anything they want. Maybe this guy was frustrated and maybe he has a good reason for that (I just hope the majority of you is not thinking the same way ).

Note: the only time I banned someone from the forum was because the guy spent months replying to posts with the same message: "Patchou is evil" and I definitively think that I was right to ban him after the last message he posted. As for editing people's posts to insult them, I think I have better things to do with my life.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
lol, may I ask where did you read such a thing?

---

quote:

---

Note: the only time I banned someone from the forum was because the guy spent months replying to posts with the same message: "Patchou is evil" and I definitively think that I was right to ban him after the last message he posted.

---

quote:

---

As for editing people's posts to insult them, I think I have better things to do with my life.

---

In the case of the texts used, I must agree, I also found that the current English texts (especially the "don't agree"-text) was/is a bit dodgy. I've used the following text for the two buttons in the Dutch translation:

SponsorAccept=Ik ga AKKOORD, installeer Messenger Plus! MET sponsor.
SponsorRefuse=Ik ga NIET AKKOORD, installeer Messenger Plus! ZONDER sponsor.

in English this would be:
SponsorAccept=I ACCEPT, install Messenger Plus! WITH the sponsor program.
SponsorRefuse=I REFUSE, install Messenger Plus! WITHOUT the sponsor program.

Even if 1000000 people installed the sponsor by accident, then they still didn't read what they're installing. It is made very clear (even in the eyes of a n00b) that it is about a sponsor.

I did some poll/test a while ago (thread somewhere on the forum here) and repeated it months later with +100 people. I compared the results and behold:
the people who accidently install the sponsor aren't the complete n00bs (those people read everything like they should), but the people who "think" they know computers and also the "more experienced" users. Both these type of people didn't think it would be nessecairy to read something, because they supposed they know what it says/does anyway... (indeed some even claimed and sweared that they never saw something like "sponsor agreement", while I was there looking behind there shoulder to see what and how they installed it...)
Then the "very experienced" people do read the agreement, because they know they need to "read" such things.

(PS: by reading I don't mean word for word, but a quick diagonal look; You don't have to read the complete text to know it is about a sponsor. Just a quick look at the title is enough: "Sponsor Agreement" and not "License Agreement")

I think some people still don't get it.

I'm saying that if the screen is changed so that it isn't techie and more clear, "Hey, you don't have to install this" (I like the WITH and WITHOUT method, very clear, GOOGLE also has one "Read this, it isn't the usual mumbo-jumbo" or something like that") more people are going to keep and reccommend Plus! which means more Plus! users.

If if most Plus! users allowed even SOME ads, I'm sure that would drastically increase the ad volume. I'll bet that most of us here don't have the ad thingy installed, because we can't turn it off. Sure, turn it on full blast at night, let a few in turing the day, as long as I can control it. Also, it might still be appropriate and professional to ask them to install WITH the sponsor under the clear understanding that it is easy to turn off and they will be in control. I have seen programs that ask you to install it to support them.

The point ladies and gents, is marketing: Make the sponsor not annoying, easy to get rid of if you don't want it (not a full un-install), and easy to adjust so that they will be comfortable with it. The point of good marketing is more money. Unless Patchou's argreement with the sponsor won't allow such changes or unless the sponsor is only ever going to pay a fixed amount, it is a good idea. Even if the sponsor was going to be like that, it makes sense to do, because eventually, someone else would be willing to pay more than the current sponsor for so much willing ad space.



~The Entomologist

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
In the case of the texts used, I must agree, I also found that the current English texts (especially the "don't agree"-text) was/is a bit dodgy. I've used the following text for the two buttons in the Dutch translation:

SponsorAccept=Ik ga AKKOORD, installeer Messenger Plus! MET sponsor.
SponsorRefuse=Ik ga NIET AKKOORD, installeer Messenger Plus! ZONDER sponsor.

in English this would be:
SponsorAccept=I ACCEPT, install Messenger Plus! WITH the sponsor program.
SponsorRefuse=I REFUSE, install Messenger Plus! WITHOUT the sponsor program.

---

Hum...... CookieRevised..... the sponsor part of the installer is very special and I really want all translators not to change ny word of this screen... in fact, that's why I added this comment in the english file:

;This text is for the sponsor window. Please translate it carefully, without changing its meaning, adding or removing information

I know you didn't had any bad intentions, but you have to understand that I can't allow every translator to use the mix he wants, else, I'll end up with
     "Do not click here!!!"
     "Install Messenger Plus!, click here"

I'm counting on you to change it back during the Plus!3 translation phase.

Thanks,
Patchou

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZrednaZ
In the end, your modification can (and does) prevent users from installing the sponsor who otherwise would have, and as translators we don't really have the right to do that - don't you agree?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZrednaZ
Personally I do, of course, prefer your choice of word - or even better:
*Install Messenger Plus! WITH the sponsor.
*Install Messenger Plus! WITHOUT the sponsor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
I'm counting on you to change it back during the Plus!3 translation phase.

---

I understand the arguments, however, you have to know that I have some obligations with C2Media and there's already way much more protections in the setup than in any other software they sponsorise. I obviously do not want to force the adware on anyone's computer and the current text is not designed to fool anyone. Accept is the onlyone in uppercase to make sure that people read what they accept. If I put Refuse uppercased too, then they probably won't care as much, I guess it's a matter of opinion .

Thank you for your understanding . Btw, I checked the original posts (thanks WDZ) and I'm happy to see that they are old posts from the time the sponsor had been introduced.

For those who want to know, since the beginning of this year, I have more users than I had last June. When the sponsor was introduced, I lost about 35% of my users in two monthes (yeah, that's depressing) but in the months that followed, users came back (I guess some of them realised that everything you read on the net about someone/something is not always true). So, everythign is fine, everyone is happy, and this forum is very very helpful (as long as people don't flame each other).

Also, if you're interested to knwo how many users install the sponsor, I'm currently at a rate of 60% so almost half of my users chose not to install the adware. With around 50,000 install per day, it's a lot of people who continue to enjoy Plus! without any downside whatsoever, which proves that the current acceptance screen and the many posts on the web about it are useful and working . I hope you see why I'm not searching to change this part of the setup anymore .

i think you should maybe change. I ACCEPT, install sponsor
and                                                I REJECT, dont install sponsor
to: install plus: WITH sponsor
                         WITHOUT sponsor(recommended)

hehe... the "(recommended)"-thing would be like dreaming but I guess it would be hard to convince C2Media that it is a great sollution

// Kian
Danish Trans(lator)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pappapishu
to: install plus: WITH sponsor
                         WITHOUT sponsor(recommended)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kian
hehe... the "(recommended)"-thing would be like dreaming but I guess it would be hard to convince C2Media that it is a great sollution

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
But I understand why the refuse-button should be lowercased.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
Accept is the onlyone in uppercase to make sure that people read what they accept. If I put Refuse uppercased too, then they probably won't care as much, I guess it's a matter of opinion .

---

maybe it's safe and so, i'm not saying anything against it, but people usually dont't like it!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pappapishu
maybe it's safe and so, i'm not saying anything against it, but people usually dont't like it!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
Accept is the onlyone in uppercase to make sure that people read what they accept. If I put Refuse uppercased too, then they probably won't care as much, I guess it's a matter of opinion

---

I think Patchou meant that it almost like a default choice; If you put only 1 thing in uppercase, it's like the default choice. (= also one of the reason why I putted also "refuse" in uppercase; To keep the choice completely with the user, not forcing anything in any slithest way...)

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
lso one of the reason why I putted also "refuse" in uppercase; To keep the choice completely with the user, not forcing anything in any slithest way...)

---

I can understand not wanting to lose ad volume, I guess that it could be kinda scary to go from something that's generally working to something that might turn out to be bad...I'll have to think on this one some more...

~The Entomologist

Na, what I meant for ACCEPT in caps is that I want to force peopel to read what they accept. If both ACCEPT and REFUSE were caps, they would jsut think its cosmetic and wouldn't care.

As for "don't install (recommended)"... lol. You know, if I didn't want anyone to install the adware, I wouldn't give a choice . I have no problem talking about it, but don't bother suggesting changes, I've worked on that part a lot already, and it's great as it is.

i want you to understand that i'm not complaining nor in any way trying to imply that it should be taken away, no offense. Just trying to make more people came to by not scaring them away

I understand, but if you really don't want them to install the sponsor, jsut tell them to click no on the last screen

believe it or not...some people can't understand that

after god only knows how many thread have been created to complain about the sponsor software, in the end, if you dont read the warning about the sponsor adware, and you install it with plus, its your fault, no one elses, its not patchous cause he didn't put it in size 80 font for everyone to see. 

patchou, after all the hard work you do, there are some people that still will find somethin to b!tch about. 

i think that u should keep the wording, but have non of the radio buttons selected at the start, so people who speed click will get a message saying "please state if you want to install messenger plus! with or without the sponsor software"

quote:

---

Originally posted by saralk
i think that u should keep the wording, but have non of the radio buttons selected at the start, so people who speed click will get a message saying "please state if you want to install messenger plus! with or without the sponsor software"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choli

quote:

---

Originally posted by saralk
i think that u should keep the wording, but have non of the radio buttons selected at the start, so people who speed click will get a message saying "please state if you want to install messenger plus! with or without the sponsor software"

---

in fact none of the radio buttons is selected by default and the Install button is disabled until the user selects if s/he wants or not install the sponsor.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Kian
You are absolutely right but one of the problems is that if you choose not to install the sponser the text fades into dimmed gray. Folks like me are often use to that if text becomes dimmed it is impossible to continue installing the program and I have talked to many who says that 'I was unable to continue because the text became dimmed'

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maybe patchou should abandon that idea altogether and have an advert in the prefrences panel, guido made a screenshot for it once, and it looked cool

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choli

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kian
You are absolutely right but one of the problems is that if you choose not to install the sponser the text fades into dimmed gray. Folks like me are often use to that if text becomes dimmed it is impossible to continue installing the program and I have talked to many who says that 'I was unable to continue because the text became dimmed'

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yes, it goes grey because it doesn't apply for that option... I see your point however when you select that radio, the install button is enabled and it isn't very hard to see that you can click on it and continue

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quote:

---

I know I know... but still - its kinda fooling people

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou

quote:

---

I know I know... but still - its kinda fooling people

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Are you kidding me? The only reason why I grey out the options is to make it very clear that the agreement doesnt apply anymore, so that some people are reassured that they dont have to read anything. The Install button gets enabled immediately and I don't see any way people could miss that. I think you're just trying too hard .

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