Alright, I'm stubburn. I was looking forward to animating DPs, so animating DPs is what I wanna have. So I started thinking. MSN Messenger doesn't allow for them in any way maginable. So, as it doesn't allow for, for example, packet sniffing á la Notifier etc, I wanna make it possible using a seperate executable, with a custom protocol sending animating DPs.

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed now by some =P By the way, my ambitions always far exceed my talents.. Sucks being a perfectionist..

Anyway, anybody who's interrested in giving me a hand in this ?

~lhun

Wait are you saying you're gonna keep sending different pics to make it look animated? Because if thats what you're planning then people with slow connections might not be able to use it

No, he's planning to make his own P2P connection to the other contact so he can send animated-gifs. (both contacts will need this addon)

But how he is going to do that without knowing the other's IP, I dunno.

humsers, how about I send a packet with a IP request which only the plugin understands. Would solve it. Or not an IP request, but simply one with the IP, and a connect request.

Though to inject it in the MSN packets, that's not going to be easy hmm.. maybe I might find some way, lemme have a browse through the net

*mumbles under breath*
Oh joy, what do you think of this, the plugin sets the DP to a special png which is recougnised by the client on the other side. That client then sends the IP to the first one, who hides it from the user. (Once in a convo or on DP change, maybe as long as a conv's open send a sync sign every minute or so.) That way both IPs are known and a P2P connection can be established.

From that point on it's bare easy.

PNGs can be animated. I doubt Messenger will show them properly, but the PNG format allows for animated images.

If the PNG can contain comments, why not put an animated GIF as the comments? People without the plugin will see the normal display picture but those with the plugin can see the "secret" animated GIF.

I thought there was already a plugin for this, but both of the users have to have it....

if i am wrong i'm sorry, but search the forum, there are many threads bout animated display pictures

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nick2588
PNGs can be animated. I doubt Messenger will show them properly, but the PNG format allows for animated images.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nick2588
If the PNG can contain comments, why not put an animated GIF as the comments? People without the plugin will see the normal display picture but those with the plugin can see the "secret" animated GIF.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
I thought there was already a plugin for this, but both of the users have to have it....

---

Right, so what I do is find a way to insert a gif in the comment of a PNG, that PNG will be displayed for those who do not have the plugin, for those that do, the plugin will extract the gif and show it instead.

The docking or replacing of the image itself isn't going to be easy so I might just start builing a little viewer that shows the included gif.. We'll see from there.

Edit:
Right, so I found an easy way to encode a gif in a png.
With imagemagick :
mogrify -comment "@[uri-to-gif]" [uri-to-png]
Then; the produced png is to be set as DP
Afterwards, the other side receives the png, and does this :
identify -format "%c" [uri-to-png] > [uri-to-gif]

Well; something like that anyway.

Y not make the display pic Display as GIF? so the file will be sent once then it will be animated?

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
Right, so I found an easy way to encode a gif in a png.
With imagemagick :
mogrify -comment "@[uri-to-gif]" [uri-to-png]
Then; the produced png is to be set as DP
Afterwards, the other side receives the png, and does this :
identify -format "%c" [uri-to-png] > [uri-to-gif]

Well; something like that anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PaPalemon
Y not make the display pic Display as GIF? so the file will be sent once then it will be animated?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
WTF @ CookieRevised,
Compressed text works fine for this purpose!

As for compatibility, comment, copyright, etc are NOT needed for compatibility!

Don't make it more difficult that it is!
Incorporating a GIF in a PNG is easy as hell,
getting MSN to recognize it is the difficult part!

---

Right, I've been on the PNG and libpng sites and have been reading a bit about them; I learned about the chunks stuff etc. After writing a little test program, I noticed that the comment chunk can only contain 2kb of data.

I encoded the gif as base64, put it in the comment chunk and tried to decode it only to notice that part of it was missing. So, CookieRevised do you know why there is a 2kb limit on that chunk ? Has it been preset like this or is it most likely because of the way ImageMagick works ?

quote:

---

If your serious about all this, I suggest you to read, learn and fully understand the PNG format

---

quote:

---

And while you implement all this in your "PNG"-to-"PNG incl. ani-GIF" converter, I suggest you to fill in the comment, software, warning, disclaimer, source, Author fields of a PNG also. (all this for compatibility and information sake)...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
Right, I've been on the PNG and libpng sites and have been reading a bit about them; I learned about the chunks stuff etc. After writing a little test program, I noticed that the comment chunk can only contain 2kb of data.

I encoded the gif as base64, put it in the comment chunk and tried to decode it only to notice that part of it was missing. So, CookieRevised do you know why there is a 2kb limit on that chunk ? Has it been preset like this or is it most likely because of the way ImageMagick works ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

---

If your serious about all this, I suggest you to read, learn and fully understand the PNG format

---

Honestly, I first want to see if it's possible at all before progressing to making it nice and the right way. Because if not I'm going to wind up giving up in the complications of it all without seeing a clear goal.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

---

And while you implement all this in your "PNG"-to-"PNG incl. ani-GIF" converter, I suggest you to fill in the comment, software, warning, disclaimer, source, Author fields of a PNG also. (all this for compatibility and information sake)...

---

That off course, is something we cannot forget My name and footprint in there =P
It would, by the way, even be nice to use that to add (like on these forums) a small text under the DP, or whatever, nice for extra features.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
Now, I know you're right about the fact that what I first suggested was bare ugly, I want to code it all natively because of the simple fact that I feel dizzy using other people's code. It gives me a feeling of lacking control. But I do want to get it all possible in an ugly way first, later there is always time for improvement. Feel free to argue if you think I'm wrong about this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Now, lets face the facts
Who's the uber-programmer in here (apart from Patchou)

---

Ill just add a small comment it may or may not be useful.

Try looking how the animated emotions work, they are a string of PNG's that then are strung together to animate. This maybe (and i suspect) todo with MSN Messenger and then you may either be able to use this function todo it for u, or you cant and will have to devise you own way. Another thing it maybe as comments as you say in the strings of PNG's to animate and therefore you maybe able to copy it in some way.

Im not sure if what i have said is right but i do know the emotions are strings of still png's so its deffinatly possible

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
so now you need to find out if you can display something on the original DP (hooking?) or use a seperate window or something... Also, you need to find a way to prevent MSN Messenger to reset/resize the image to a "normal" PNG, like the wtbwplugin....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reisyboy
Ill just add a small comment it may or may not be useful.

Try looking how the animated emotions work, they are a string of PNG's that then are strung together to animate. This maybe (and i suspect) todo with MSN Messenger and then you may either be able to use this function todo it for u, or you cant and will have to devise you own way. Another thing it maybe as comments as you say in the strings of PNG's to animate and therefore you maybe able to copy it in some way.

Im not sure if what i have said is right but i do know the emotions are strings of still png's so its deffinatly possible

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reisyboy

Try looking how the animated emotions work, they are a string of PNG's that then are strung together to animate. This maybe (and i suspect) todo with MSN Messenger and then you may either be able to use this function todo it for u, or you cant and will have to devise you own way. Another thing it maybe as comments as you say in the strings of PNG's to animate and therefore you maybe able to copy it in some way.

---

indeed, the original png would simply show up like a strip of images to people without the plugin. The best part about integrating a image inside a png is that people without the plugin, wouldn't notice a thing and can see the static pngas normal...

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Now, the name of a chunck must be 4 bytes long (4 characters), nothing less, nothing more and the casing does matter!!!
To reflect the above chunck criteria, your name must be lowercased-lowercased-uppercased-lowercased.

---

code:

---

    chunk_list - list of chunks affected (a byte string,
                 five bytes per chunk, NULL or '\0' if
                 num_chunks is 0)

---

code:

---

4.7.2 Chunk types

There are 18 chunk types defined in this International Standard. Chunk types are four-byte sequences chosen so that they correspond to readable labels when interpreted in the ISO 646.IRV:1991 character set.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Chunks are 4 bytes in length
Dont believe me and cookie? get a hex-editor!

---

Thanks alot B, I've just figured it all out how it works, and I think I can really use it very well.
All I should do is change dwKeepTypes to the name of my chunk, that way I can strip everything except my chunk out. To then transform it into an algorythm that will write the chunk, shouldn't be too hard anymore.

I owe you one

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Does that make sense?

---

Hey lhunath,
                   you got any progress on this plugin/program thing yet?? or you still gathering information?

Oh right, I should update that

I've figured out how to do the animated display picture sending, I'm building a way to send it through right now, after that, there'll still be alot of work on making it show up properly.. So I'm afraid it won't be released for testing any time soon =P But we'll see how the progress goes, won't we.

i might be completely wrong here, but lemme try to explain

compare PNG's to EXE files. EXE files have a beginning, and an end. So adding data behind the end of the EXE file doesn't affect the file. I tried this with PNG, and it worked (i think).
So your file should look like:
<beginPNG><PNGdata><endPNG><yourdata...>
Ever tried this? because adding comments and working with chunks looks aweful to me =/

<offtopic>nice little dirty smilies you got there</offtopic>

What is wrong in doing it the correct way? (second time I'm asking this )... It looks complicated, but it realy isn't. It is as hard as your method, Millenium_edition:

To extract the data from the end of the PNG, you must know where the end is. So you need to read some data out of the PNG first to know where the end is, then extract the added stuff at the end...

In the the correct way of doing this, you need also to read some data from the PNG, but instead of skipping everything right to the end, you only skip the normal chuncks of the png, then extract your chunck in the same way as if you extracted something at the end of a file.

Creating the "special" PNG works also the same: instead of writing at the end of the file, you read some data out of the PNG, copy all the normal chuncks, and then if that is done, write your own chunks, and end the PNG...

The benefit is that it is a valid PNG. And even a bigger benefit of this all is that you can edit and change the PNG in a normal graphic editor (which must be PNG compatible of course) without loosing your "special" added chunck. (that's why I suggested a "private/ancillary/safe-to-copy" chunck)...

It indeed seems harder todo then it realy is, but that is with everything where the explaination is much more extensive then actually doing it...


EDIT: Oh btw, Millenium_edition, Welcome again at msgplus nice to see you here again

well i was a bit late because now you've come up with the chunks. and now you studied it.
but as far as i've read, can't you add a animdpsize="123456" to the <msnobj> tag, so you got the length, all you have to do is get the rest of the file, instead of decoding all those damn chunks...


oh and i was just passing by... thanks anyway

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millenium_edition
well i was a bit late because now you've come up with the chunks. and now you studied it.
but as far as i've read, can't you add a animdpsize="123456" to the <msnobj> tag, so you got the length, all you have to do is get the rest of the file, instead of decoding all those damn chunks...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Instead of storing the GIF in the chunck like it is. add 1 byte in front of it to identify the method you used to store the GIF. Thus it will act like kind of a version number.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
I've been thinking with TheBlasphemer about how we'll send the png to the other contact, since he told me that MSN Messenger decodes the PNG into RAW image data, then re-encodes that data into PNG format, that way, my custom chunk will be removed..

---

Dont give up hope yet, anyways, how does the Power Plus's animated DP's work? Thats proof that its not-so-difficult.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chloe
Dont give up hope yet, anyways, how does the Power Plus's animated DP's work?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chloe
How does the Power Plus's animated DP's work

---

i guess you'll have to try it my way - unless you got a super server?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millenium_edition
i guess you'll have to try it my way - unless you got a super server?

---

code:

---

            char *cLen;
            itoa((int)dwLen, cLen, 10);
            WriteFile(hFileOut,cLen,4,&dwWritten,0);

---

code:

---

WriteFile(hFileOut,(BYTE *)dwLen,4,&dwWritten,0);

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
Could somebody do a diff between these two files ?
lhunath.gif is the original gif
lhunath2.gif is the gif retrieved from the PNG

lhunath.gif seems to animate in ACDSee, lhunath2.gif seems to display the first frame and then hang the program.. =/

* lhunath did a diff, noticed they were the same, but still the second won't show, wth is going on =P

---

my way was adding data behind the end of the png... read above

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
confirmed, both files are exactly the same. And the gif seems to be a valid animated gif...

---

They both work for me.

/methinks winrar compression has done something

if I reported that both files are the same I had to download the RAR first to extract them, and if the files are the same, then nothing is wrong with the RAR either

btw, yep, both animations work for me....

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
if I reported that both files are the same I had to download the RAR first to extract them, and if the files are the same, then nothing is wrong with the RAR either

btw, yep, both animations work for me....

---

What I am saying, is that winrar might take out comments of PNG files to reduce filesize. This is why they are both the same image... I think.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rompom7
What I am saying, is that winrar might take out comments of PNG files to reduce filesize. This is why they are both the same image... I think.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wtbw
We already know how to make DP's display at whatever size we want; there's already the code to do the splitting, already code to display a DP (ofc), and already the timing code inside msn. So it's just a matter of putting it all together.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wtbw
And, lhunath the code is inside MSN.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Now think a bit, what if someone had like 10 frames, which would be a picture of 960*96 on non-patched MSN's.

---

This might sound a bit stupid... but how large will encapsulating the gif inside a png be? There might be issues for people on dialup downloading massive display pictures... like I said might sound silly sorry...

quote:

---

Originally posted by illuzn
This might sound a bit stupid... but how large will encapsulating the gif inside a png be? There might be issues for people on dialup downloading massive display pictures... like I said might sound silly sorry...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by illuzn
This might sound a bit stupid... but how large will encapsulating the gif inside a png be? There might be issues for people on dialup downloading massive display pictures... like I said might sound silly sorry...

---

About that first frame.... I wouldn't duplicate it in the PNG. I would keep the PNG image as something seperate. In that way, a user can decide to put a (slithly or complete) different pic in the PNG for "normal" users. Otherwise you bound to some restrictions in making your animated GIF. Furthermore, PNG supports far more colors then GIF and it support alpha transparency (gif not). So you'll loose all that if you duplicate the first frame instead of keeping the two things seperate...

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
About that first frame.... I wouldn't duplicate it in the PNG. I would keep the PNG image as something seperate. In that way, a user can decide to put a (slithly or complete) different pic in the PNG for "normal" users.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Otherwise you bound to some restrictions in making your animated GIF. Furthermore, PNG supports far more colors then GIF and it support alpha transparency (gif not). So you'll loose all that if you duplicate the first frame instead of keeping the two things seperate...

---

lol in the mean while can you make a plugin with 100 > animated pictures  in it ,and a option to ad your own animated things ?  same like auditor but then for pictures
just a suggestion
yeah i am a noob

Not really a good idea, because you will need another way to send a message to tell the user what D/P you are using.

Its better to wait and do it properly

Well, i think this is an excellent idea, but I can see this taking a considerable amount of time without a programmer with advanced asm knowledge, or somebody with an easy, but effective method.

Perhaps in the mean time a plug in isnt out of the question. It can render the display picture easy enough over the current display picture (hell, you could do it as simple as hard coding into the plugin some coordinates where the current display picture is.). Although primitive this method could be a quick release so people get used to the idea and the idea gets spread and support for a proper version may grow:

1. When in conversation user enters plugin command.
   
2. Plugin requests file details i.e. the picture to send to this contact.
   
3. User selects file.
   
4. Plugin temperory renames (or copies) the image to the CRC of the image, or a further unique detail. It then drops the file, along with a recievenotify and the crc to tell the remote plugin the image is on the way.
   
5. The remote plugin detects a new file in Recieved Files and checks against our crc, if correct, it renders the image, and sends a confirmation to remote plugin (recieve notify) that transfer was successful.
   
6. .....etc
   [/list]
   
   You can see that this method will work and is very simple. It will also allow for the user to have a seperate image for every1! and if they dont have the plugin or plus...who cares, they still only get sent the file and a few funky characters!
   
   But like i say, ofcource, this could only be a quick fix up just for the time been.
   
   Tah,
   
   Hah

YEAH ! Thats what i think would be nice if someone could make it

who is gonna make it

ok, i got bored (and confused) with reading all this on page 5.

So ill just throw in this - i saw somewhere that someone said they could change the headers that are sent with msn messenger. And that anything extra is ignored by the client.

Well you could add a bit to the end of the header that will just say

adp: [location]

and leave it up to the user to upload the animated dp to a server.

Then in the same way the korean one does it, display the animated DP.

This way people without the plugin can still use it, and there is none of this msn messenger changing to RAW mumbo-jumbo.

Or you could proxy msn and change the display pic that is sent out, so its sent with the comments.

Sorry if what im saying is complete nonsense to you coding experts.

Saralk:
We don't want it to be an externel program that shows the DP in an external window... if U want it like that, then it is very easy to make, very very easy to make... but doesn't give make any sense... that's not the point of it... that is just to make a connection between the 2 computers and then send the animated gif, and then in the other end show the animated gif in a window.. that is just so... crappy...
I think that they have already found a way to compile the animated GIF into the PNG's so that U can use them as ordinary PNG images which Messenger use.. the next thing is to find a way to take the recieved "Animated PNG" out and then make a fake window that puts on top of the DP area or a method to control the Object where the  DP's are shown(but this is very complicated or maybe impossible...)...
The best solution would be if we could this working as plugin, if that is not possible then I guess it would have to be a standalone program, or maybe even a patch(but we would rather not do that...)...
I'm currently experimenting a bit with this, the part on how to show the Animated DP.. but I can't seem to find a solution...

Enough Information???

Is there a way to create a protocol and then attach it to messenger so that the plugin will understand it but if there is no plugin then messenger just silently discard the information?

i'm really looking forward to this project being released.... lol look out for microsoft on this they will be like lets beat him to it

Why doesn't someone just get the Korean Plus! steal the code from there and put in MSN MEssenger?

Copyright.....

Make an Add-on
Don't Make it a Plus! Feature

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vantage
so? lot of ppl break it but honestly who cares?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vantage
Make an Add-on
Don't Make it a Plus! Feature

---

Yeah but we dont want anything illegal in Plus! now do we?

So why not just take apart the program, see how it works, then write a similar code that is built for our needs.

you can't have your own pics with that korean thing

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
So why not just take apart the program, see how it works, then write a similar code that is built for our needs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reisyboy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
So why not just take apart the program, see how it works, then write a similar code that is built for our needs.

---

Also disassembly of a program to steel parts is ilegal ...

So far the method that has been propoused has had probelsm that comments they add to animate are removed by the protocall (as i understand it) to make the file size smaller, therefore they are working on a way of either making the image comments read only in effect and not removable.... or a different method of the plugin sendign lots of seperate frame pictures then the person with the plug at the other end assembling them into an animation - crude but workable, however people without the plug will get anoyed by your display picture changing every few seconds or atleast very often. Benfit of other method they would only see the first frame if they didnt have the plugin and just see it as a still picture.

Now i may have parts wrong but thats how i understand it..... insted of proposing ilegal methods of disassembly. Lets give them some time to work on it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
The problem with sending small chuncks and then re-assembling them would be that you would need to have a seperate program running.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
Inserting the animation into the comments and locking it

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
then extracting the picture and displaying it over the Display Picture is a much better idea

---

Atleast its moved back onto it now Cookie you seem very intouch with the progress. Any news you have or not ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Saralk:
We don't want it to be an externel program that shows the DP in an external window...

---

quote:

---

I think that they have already found a way to compile the animated GIF into the PNG's so that U can use them as ordinary PNG images which Messenger use..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reisyboy
Atleast its moved back onto it now Cookie you seem very intouch with the progress. Any news you have or not ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by saralk
i thaught they found out that was impossible because the msn protocol removed anything that isnt the png or something

---

Ok... if we are stuck at the "Messenger is ripping the extra info" thing, then why not change to another method... I know this is a very "unprofessionel" way... but it would work...
Instead of Coding the Animated GIFS into the PNG's.. then why not let messenger send the ordinary DP, and then check if the other user have the plugin, if he/she does, then make a p2p (socket) connection and then file transfer the GIF, and on the other end then show the GIF ontop of the DP Area.... then the hard part will be to find a way to paint ontop of the DP, or maybe even Hijack/hook the DP area... (but this is impossible, or at least it seems)....

This isn't exactly really professionel but it works????

What about using the MSN Messenger P2P Protocall to send the D/P its a physical part of the MSN Messenger program, so im thinking that may work ? Or may not ??

Whats the status on this plugin? Is it still in development/canceled? Or what?

just what i was thinking wheres our update lhunath????

I've been dead for a while; and have just been reanimated; I'm working in some shop now, but rereading this thread has given me a longing to relaunch this stuff.
As long as I can find a way to keep msn messenger from removing the extra data from the PNGs.

Btw, Cyberdude, I don't like the way you planned on doing it; it might work, but it's a crappy solution, and I don't mind at all you going for it, but when I do something, I'd rather do it the right way.
What I'm looking for right now, is a way to bypass the PNG => RAW => PNG algorythm of MSN Messenger. I'll need to memhack that probably, the way TheBlashphemer did with so many things for his StuffplugNG. Therefore, TB, I call upon thee. Memhack it for me =P ASM is not my terrain, and until that has been settled, I cannot proceed.

......We should write a superhero type music theme for TB at these kind of moments

Somthin like the terminator or ermm apocalpse now

yeah ok TB that sucks i'm in a similar situation atm, just keep your cool and take your time

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
I've been dead for a while; and have just been reanimated; I'm working in some shop now, but rereading this thread has given me a longing to relaunch this stuff.
As long as I can find a way to keep msn messenger from removing the extra data from the PNGs.

Btw, Cyberdude, I don't like the way you planned on doing it; it might work, but it's a crappy solution, and I don't mind at all you going for it, but when I do something, I'd rather do it the right way.
What I'm looking for right now, is a way to bypass the PNG => RAW => PNG algorythm of MSN Messenger. I'll need to memhack that probably, the way TheBlashphemer did with so many things for his StuffplugNG. Therefore, TB, I call upon thee. Memhack it for me =P ASM is not my terrain, and until that has been settled, I cannot proceed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
No time... sorry... constant fights with dad... very busy with school... extremely depressed cause of constant fights with dad... etc... I even had to delay SPNG... just cant take it anymore....

---

I have some ideas...
Make a program that will change ur DP really fast so it looks like its moving over and over, alls u need is the slides at the same time that program will take care of the 1 sec. delay of changing pictures [if thats possible]
Also I noticed when u ask someone to view their webcam before it connects it shows a webcam looking around, can't DP be like that? or is that manualy in MSN Messenger?

the slideshow thing doesn't work, ADP is a slideshow program works nice but not like we would ultimately want.

HOWEVER!!!

You may have struck a chord with the webcam .gif thing if someone could figure out how that is configured then maybe that would work.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fukafly

You may have struck a chord with the webcam .gif thing if someone could figure out how that is configured then maybe that would work.

---

that would be again a lousy way: initiating a webcam session and then cancelling it...

The moving webcam pic is btw just 1 long PNG with the different "frames" in the same image just like wtbw explained earlier here...
There is nothing special about it

Furthermore, this doesn't solve the most important problem and that is how to send the animation to your contact...

...your too good at this.

Where is the .PNG located i wanna customize it

[OFF TOPIC]
PNG 1034 and PNG 1033
both seem the same but actually aren't, dunno which one it is that is used where...
[/OFF TOPIC]

did MSN completly abandoned the idea of using animated dp? cause if not, in a few time this whole topic would be a huge lost of time. i heard in some interview, dunno if it was on mess.be that they were thinking about putting the animated DPs to work on a future release

MSN 7 probably, but we want it now

Don't start rumors and don't speculate without proof!

for what i can tell if someone ever make a plugin like that it will require both parts to have that plugin in order to see the animation. im not seein it beeing worth the time spent, but hey its not me that is going to make it, so... go ahead

quote:

---

Originally posted by VuDu
for what i can tell if someone ever make a plugin like that it will require both parts to have that plugin in order to see the animation. im not seein it beeing worth the time spent, but hey its not me that is going to make it, so... go ahead

---

Ok, this thread has gone nicely off topic.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fukafly
You may have struck a chord with the webcam .gif thing if someone could figure out how that is configured then maybe that would work.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by VuDu
did MSN completly abandoned the idea of using animated dp?

---

so guys how are we gonna transfer  the Display Picture!!
we know that when we add a display picture, the Messenger edit the picture and save it in C:\Documents and Settings\"USER"\Application Data\Microsoft\MSN Messenger\"Random number"\UserTile\....
but the problem is that we can't edit or change or add pictures in this directory because they are protected by the map.dat encrypted file!!
anybody knows how to decrypt that file to be able to add, edit the size of a picture?! then we can add a png file as we said before which have in the comments a link to a gif image on any website because as I read we can't store the whole gif animated image because we're allowed to use only 2 kb...

sorry.. my english is so bad
btw this is a very interresting topic...
TheBlasphemer can help here for sure since he has done the large DP thing!!

keep on working in this thread please

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElectroSoft
then we can add a png file as we said before which have in the comments a link to a gif image on any website because as I read we can't store the whole gif animated image because we're allowed to use only 2 kb...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElectroSoft
C:\Documents and Settings\"USER"\Application Data\Microsoft\MSN Messenger\"Random number"\UserTile\

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath

By the way, adding a DP there would be one way, I don't know what kind of protection there is in the map.dat file and how to break it, yet it would not be my favorite way, since you wouldn't be able to add animating DP's through the normal Msn Messenger Display Picture Adder. Which would make it seem more professional. This would require an ASM hack like the one TB did in his SPNG.

I'll see if I can figure out something about the encryption of the DP's.

____________________________________________________
i think that its to much work  to do so and it will take a lot of time away to made it and like cookie revised said it has been discussed... read the thread...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
It's not a random number, it's a number derived from your email address. And the algorythm to calculate it is known.

---

Use this file to figure out what number matches what email address.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tochjo
Use this file to figure out what number matches what email address.

---

The number is based on your email address. If you enter the email address in the program I linked to ("this file" was a link), it will give you the number. Therefore, it's not completely random

anyway out of the subject!! I think we can find the number of each account in the registery

ElectroSoft, sorry to be so harsh, but drop it. It is NOT random. period. It is a calculated number, like said before, nothing needs to be looked up in the registry and because it is a know calculated formula, it isn't even there to look up. (old thread that covers this: http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=15519)

Are you guys trying to figure out a way so that its "not Illegal"? because if someone if it is, this will be more hard then i though, but if you guys aren't why not just open tha map file and delete that part of the script?, or just trying and configure it so it disable that feature?

No, they are trying to figure out how to SEND the animated DP....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vantage
but if you guys aren't why not just open tha map file and delete that part of the script?, or just trying and configure it so it disable that feature?

---

this may sound complicated, but im not sure if this makes sense but look how,
http://www.msn2go.com/
http://webmessenger.msn.com/
http://www.piglet-im.com/
http://www.wbmsn.net/
are put together, they run on a server now i know they have no DP but wouldn't you be able to run a server that connects to then MSN server then send the DP from there, or just directly to the MSN Messenger server.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vantage
are put together, they run on a server now i know they have no DP but wouldn't you be able to run a server that connects to then MSN server then send the DP from there, or just directly to the MSN Messenger server.

---

* lhunath sighs.

Ok, thanks for trying to help here, people, but really; all we need to do, and read it once more and don't divert from it, is :
Find a method to make MSN Messenger use the PNG containing the animation data (hidden data), and not rip it out.

Possible directions to solve this are:
1. Bypassing the algorithm of MSN Messenger which converts images to RAW image data (only the actual pixels you see), then converting the RAW data to PNG. (This way, all hidden data in our original PNG disappears, because it's not in the visible pixels - RAW data.)
2. Adding our PNGs with hidden data directly to the Display Pictures directory and customising the map.dat (and index file) to add the entry of our display picture, so that it appears in the list.

Problems currently keeping us from using any of these solutions:
1. This requires an ASM hack, in the form of a patch or memhack, kind of like Stuffplug NG does very often. I don't know any ASM so I can't do this. I need an ASM programmer to bypass the MSN Messenger algorythm.
2. Decrypting the map.dat file has been successfully done before, the problem is Encrypting it again. Appearantly that isn't very easy. I will try to get in touch with the person that decrypted it. He's at MSNFanatic's board.

I appreciate your input, but people, please stay on topic, and try to keep the thread clean and to the point so we don't get lost in confusion.

Thank you,
~lhun

Excuse me in advance for the double post, but I required your attention and input on the following.

The development of this plugin has progressed to such a phase that I am able to add custom chunks of data into a PNG, which will then be used as your Display Picture, allowing for more hidden data to be transmitted. This hidden data was to then contain an Animating GIF image, which would be overlayed over a PNG image, resulting in an Animating Display Picture.

I have recently decided that with this knowledge and the fact that this plugin will be required for both sides to function, I have the ability to add a whole lot more of features, and thus I thought of turning to you to see what kind of requests you would make, ideas on what kind of features I could integrate using this method.

To give you better idea on what kind of ideas I'm looking for, I'll write down some of my own, things I've thought of up to now.

- Animating Display Picture (of course)
- Linked Display Picture (your display picture will link to for example your homepage)
- About Me (some information conscearning yourself, call it, a mini-profile)
- Your Public PGP/GPG Encryption key, maybe further research could result in encrypted conversations over MSN Messenger this way.

As a last note, I want to state that you people shouldn't expect too much of this as of yet, since there still is no way of actually adding the PNG with the hidden data to the Display Pictures (see the above post of mine). Therefore, I'm still looking for ideas on figuring a way to bypass that problem.

~lhun

(Admins, if you believe that this should be a seperate thread, just split it, I'm not sure what to do with it.)

Congrats on the progress ...
wait, I'm not certain... Are you saying that you solved the problem of the stripped data (only RAW image data) begin sent (and thus the added hidden data isn't stripped out anymore)?

As for the additional added info, it seems great also...
As for the adding of the DP, I think ASM must come into play and since few people know about it, I suggest to turn to wtbw or TB for that...

Keep up the good work....

Sounds cool I like the ideas, so this would then turn into an actual plugin with a configure option so you could choose if you wanted to have links ect

Well done

sweet, this plugin sounds like it will be amazing
well done mate

I've tried something like this, allowing msn messenger to allow mng files, but I didn't succeed, and when accepted some strange results happend.

So I just think it ain't possible

quote:

---

Originally posted by Huuf
allowing msn messenger to allow mng files

---

You fixed the problem stated by cookie?

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
You fixed the problem stated by cookie?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
You fixed the problem stated by cookie?

---

As in, what problem? You mean the ASMing? I stated in my last general post what the real issue here is, and no, I haven't, as I'm no ASM programmer/debugger.

---

I hope you figure this one out really soon I hope the best for you

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Are you saying that you solved the problem of the stripped data (only RAW image data) begin sent (and thus the added hidden data isn't stripped out anymore)?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Are you saying that you solved the problem of the stripped data (only RAW image data) begin sent (and thus the added hidden data isn't stripped out anymore)?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
As a last note, I want to state that you people shouldn't expect too much of this as of yet, since there still is no way of actually adding the PNG with the hidden data to the Display Pictures (see the above post of mine).

---

Any progress update. Any prealpha we can test?

quote:

---

Originally posted by bostonfanx
Any progress update. Any prealpha we can test?

---

I wish I would have found this thread earlier... (partly because reading the last 5 pages just to see if you had allready tried what I'm about to say was a pain)

some time ago I read about some guy who had developed a way of representing data as truecolor pixels, how about making the top row of pixels in the display picture tell the plugin the IP and port where it can obtain the animated image (P2P style)?

when I read what I just wrote I realize it doesn't solve the problem of adding it to the list of pictures (you'd have to ask the user to manually add the modified picture containing the data I guess), but maybe it'll do some good..

Oh, and never ever let computer-stuff take over your life. I your family or what ever needs time, take that time and get stuff sorted, take more than enough time. I know a guy who allways made computers top-priority in his life, and he's not exactly doing good at the moment..
(i.e. if you feel you don't have time to work on this project, don't push things)

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironlink
Oh, and never ever let computer-stuff take over your life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironlink
how about making the top row of pixels in the display picture tell the plugin the IP and port where it can obtain the animated image (P2P style)?

---

Indeed nice suggestion. And that made me think "How to include data in pixels (actual imagedata) without altering the actual pixel?". Well in PNG this IS possible . But you need to know the PNG format very well for that. The trick is to use an alpha-palette.

As you know PNG's supports transparency. Normaly the pixeldata of a PNG with full transparency is stored like this: R G B A R G B A R G B A R G B A... Where RGB is the obvious red/green/blue value, and A is the transparency level. Now altering the transparency level here will result in different pixelshades, so that's no good.

But PNG also supports alpha-palette's. This means that the colors and transparency aren't stored in the pixeldata but in the palette. So, a palette is created and the pixeldata doesn't contain the R G B values but an index to the palette instead. This also means that you can have palette entries which you don't actually use in the image! And here we have our "space" to add the data Create an alpha-palette-PNG and add some extra palette entries where you will store your data.

Backdraw, I dunno if Messenger supports these PNG's, and if it does, how they are handled. But since the palette is a important part of an image, I actually have good hopes for it...

more info:
http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/

Note: but implementing this will need a great effort. You need to "read in" the PNG's (DP's) and convert them to an alpha-palette-png (<= not easy), add some palette entries and write the "new format" (including compression! etc. <= totaly not easy)...



EDIT:
[OFFTOPIC]
lol, this brings back memories of a big Belgian contest held back in the mid 90's. Some computer magazine (can't remember which) made a thick article spread over several issues about hidden data in normal computer files and how it can be used. They held a contest to find the hidden data in some common files, like Word docs, images, databases, etc. It opened up whole new ideas and very nice systems of hiding data. It was the hot topic to talk about in Belgian computer world lol, I remember finding some funny hidden picture of the author of the article in a ZIP file.....
[/OFFTOPIC]

hope, once again

Atlast we have a plan - keep us updated

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
This also means that you can have palette entries which you don't actually use in the image!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
If I understand this correctly, you want to add hidden data to the image colour palette. Entries which aren't refered to by the actual image data.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
I don't think that'll work since when MSN Messenger converts the image to a RAW image, these entries which aren't used will be completely lost (as they have no representation in the visible content of the image). I don't think when Messenger converts images to RAW, that it also keeps track of all the palette entries, if any.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
know if it also strips the palettes? If so, then indeed that method will not work.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
I recon since it destroys any kind of transparancy that it converts it all to RGB; or some kind of BMP-rawness.

---

quote:

---

{14:29:00} [Highly Classified]: man I think I've got an Idea to decrypt the map.dat and encrypt it again
{14:34:14} [Highly Classified]: KERNEL32.CreateFileMappingA notify me if it works

---

altering the file in memory (like "soft patches" like jnrzloader, wtbwplugin, etc. do with messenger)? bypassing the encryption/decryption of the file itself and let messenger do the work.

I dunno, is the map.dat even stored in memory when Messenger is running? I honestly doubt it, but I'm not sure...

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
I dunno, is the map.dat even stored in memory when Messenger is running?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
altering the file in memory (like "soft patches" like jnrzloader, wtbwplugin, etc. do with messenger)? bypassing the encryption/decryption of the file itself and let messenger do the work.

I dunno, is the map.dat even stored in memory when Messenger is running? I honestly doubt it, but I'm not sure...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
I don't think it is, for one, it would be a huge security flaw, and worthless to encrypt it in the first place then, secondly, MSN Messenger reloads the file every time it scans for DPs, I don't see the need of putting it into memory then.

---

i dont know nething bout programming but has the new 3.20 API helped u with nething lhunath?

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4

i dont know nething bout programming but has the new 3.20 API helped u with nething lhunath?

---

i doubt it, seeing as they are dealing with messenger not msgplus

I think this will just be a standalone program in teh end, it would probably be easier

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElectroSoft
it will store it in the memory, do the modifications and store it back in the hard disk

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lhunath
Meaning, I should, whenever map.dat is loaded into memory, and after it's decrypted, quickly add my custom DP's in it, before MSN Messenger uses it..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElectroSoft
The Blasphemer should help here!! he knows how but he doesn't want to share his informations

---

Yes using MNG would be perfect....too bad most browsers don't support mng nowadays and I don't know any graphic editors that support MNG either...too bad it hasn't replaced GIF...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millenium_edition
But implementing MNG stuff into that takes a lot of debugging and modifying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millenium_edition
But implementing MNG stuff into that takes a lot of debugging and modifying.

---

implementing MNG is not the purpose

---

No, you missed to point I guess... The purpose is not to replace the PNG-engine with a MNG-engine or GIF-engine or any other fileformat-engine for that matter... The PNG-engine will still be used as always, only the difference is that the animated GIF will be inside a "chunck"* of the PNG/DP... Messenger will still open/save PNG's, nothing will be changed to that...

The thing that needs to be changed/skipped is Messenger's routine which strips of the PNG to it's bare raw minimums (thus including the special chunk) before it is saved in your cache folder...


(* "chunck" is a name for a specific part of the PNG format)

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
(* "chunck" is a name for a specific part of the PNG format)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reisyboy
but to save badnwith i guess MSN Messenger strips all non-picture data out.

---

Just Thought I'd dig this up, and ask how things are going?

i dont know what u guys are actually doing but good luck trying to get someone animation into an avatar in msn

Seems MSN 7 isnt gonna have Animated Display Pics either.....


is someone gonna continue this project?

I'm stuck until the ASM programming is done, and I can't myself. So if someone were to be nice and do it for me, I'll continue.
Can't be bothered to focus these days. Sigh. =P

try to learn it then lhunath

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fukafly
try to learn it then lhunath

---

Nah, i'm more of an image and music person myself, i know html and i am learning flash slowly

and anyway i wasn't talking to you

why dont u send a message with the animated gif in it, have the other client recognise the message and extract it. Then, somehow manage to cycle the images in the message windows.

This way, you can ask first if the other client has the plugin and send the animated gif only to those who have it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by limus
why dont u send a message with the animated gif in it, have the other client recognise the message and extract it. Then, somehow manage to cycle the images in the message windows.

This way, you can ask first if the other client has the plugin and send the animated gif only to those who have it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by limus
why dont u send a message with the animated gif in it, have the other client recognise the message and extract it. Then, somehow manage to cycle the images in the message windows.

This way, you can ask first if the other client has the plugin and send the animated gif only to those who have it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
hey M_e how much would a ASM programming book cost me and would it be dificult to learn for someone like me who doesnt know nething about programming?? Ive really wanted to apport something to the plug in community but i dont know anything or where to even start

---

So after about 1 month is there anyone even thinking about it and not decided yet?


(If your post is just gonna be "riahc3 dont bring/bump up old topics" then please dont post because i wont care and wont even flame back. Im just really wanting this plugin)

no nothing has been made, the most animated DP's you can get are by using a small app that noelie wrote that inserted a small internet explorer window over the DP box which could play gif files, however it was rather dodgy and not great to set up, and others needed the app aswell

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fukafly
no nothing has been made, the most animated DP's you can get are by using a small app that noelie wrote that inserted a small internet explorer window over the DP box which could play gif files, however it was rather dodgy and not great to set up, and others needed the app aswell

---

you probably can't it was only in private beta i believe, also the online server php files we used are probably no longer online, it looked crappy by the way and if you did anything to the contact windows like move them resize them click somewhere else then return to it, the app would crash very buggy