Just a few days ago I saw Fahrenheit 9/11...and it is pretty disturbing.  The movie points out how several top white house officials, including United States president George W. Bush, planned, executed, and decieved the american people.  I'll break down the fine points of the movie for you, I highly suggest you see it, tickets are available online.

Discrimination Against African Americans
When your entire family manages a state, its pretty easy to fix an election, such as the 2000 Election.  The governor and the lady who counts the votes are related to you, so it's easy for you to pull it off.  In the November 2000 Elections, SEVERAL counties in the state of florida appealed to the state about problems on Election Night, and the movie says that some of the people taking the votes were instructed to "throw out african american peoples votes".

President Bushs' inauguration
In January of 2001, 43rd U.S. President George W. Bush was inaugrated into the White House.  Although the president usually walks a block to the white house, on the day of bushs' inauguration, he was unable to, as his limousine was being egged from protesters.  Bad start to his presidency.

"Vacations all I ever wanted, Vacation, Everywhere, Everyday"
Present Bush was on vacation for 46% of the time, according to the movie.  However, A local newspaper reported that president bush could only be accounted in the white house 36% of the time.  The rest: Vacation!

September 11th, 2001: Planned
The movie provides proof that September 11th, 2001 was planned by George W. Bush and top white house officials.  The reason it was planned, according to the movie, was to generate revenue from the emergency services required (see "Economy: Up to 7% owned by Bin Ladens")

Economy: Up to 7% owned by Bin Ladens
Alright, so we now know that September 11th, 2001 was planned by the bin ladens and bush/white house...But whats more?  When air traffic in the United States was restricted, the Bin Laden Family (Not osama) was allowed to fly OUT OF THE UNITED STATES with the usual security checks, nothing more, nothing less.  Up to 7% of Americas Economy is owned by the Bin Ladens, which, if all of it was removed, would possibly cause a depression.

The Companies: Who's got the Bin Ladens Money!
Well, I dont remember them all, but "The Carlyle Group" (a big chunk of companies) and "AOL Time Warner" are the 2 that I do remember.

Homeland Security: False sense of protection
The department of Homeland Security was created with a false sense of protection.  Moore attributes that the scale of possible attacks will never be below yellow, and is raised to orange at times to generate Security profits.  The government is playing a psychological game with Americans, always keeping them scared of what might be coming next.

Operation Iraqi Freedom
Saddam Hussein never had weapons of mass destruction.  This was made up as a reason to send Americans into war...In bushs' words, "I'm a war president".

The Patriot Act
The Patriot Act was voted for, and is now in effect in the United States.  Heres a shocking fact...Only 1 Congressman read the thing!  The movie shows how the act allowed the government to penetrate a group that was for peace, the most harmless looking people in the world, and use the act to label them as "potential terrorists".

Result of the movie
The movie undoubtedly has changed the minds of several millions of American Voters.  I'll be very surprised if bush is re-elected.

This little look at the movie is just a glance, and it may not make much sense (its 4:16AM ), but go see the movie, it explains what the government doesnt want us to know.

I can't say I'm surpised to see this from you dane

I might have given it a second look if it didn't look like a convention for absurd conspiracy theories.  It's a shame that the vaguely plausible ones are spoilt by the rest.

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Saddam Hussein never had weapons of mass destruction.

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wtf!?!?! what is the point in this film, its not funny, its not interesting, its just it.. its built a new genre for itself ...

i say boycott

i definetely want to see this movie...Bowling for Colombine was an amazing movie and im sure this one is way better

vacation for that long is f***ing horiible

hes the goddam president he should be there for his country not screwin around on the dam golfcourse (most likely his own private golf course too )

Heh...He made a "Serious" speech on a golf course at one point in the movie, and then made a joke after .  Btw, teh "War Against Terror" has nothing to do with Iraq, tis just some stupid excuse to scare all americans again.

If you liked bowling for columbine, you'll like this.

Btw, didnt make its own category, its a Documentary.

Re: the golf shot that they make so much hoo-haa about all over the site... do you see him making a speech and then making a joke after?  I don't.  He makes a speech, then in a different shot he takes a shot in golf like he's supposed to.  He could have said that before, or a long time after, after the interview had finished.  That's misleading cinematography, which is a critical mistake.  How can you expect anyone to believe you that the government is misleading us if your own case for it is misleading?

well ill be sure to keep an eye out for that when i go to see the movie

P.S. the lobster is pimpin man

i just think that this movie is shit!

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
Its for people who want to know the truth .

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!!!  Outrageous, he has PROOF that the Bin Ladens own 7% of the economy, they are the biggest investors (Carlyle Group is like, 27+ companies, Plus AOL Time Warner, etc.)

Interesting Link...

Anyway, Michael Moore wants his message (ie movie) to be spread and allow downloading it from P2P or other file sharing networks.

'As long as you don't get any benefit from it (by reselling, etc.)'.

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Anyway, Michael Moore wants his message (ie movie) to be spread and allow downloading it from P2P or other file sharing networks.

'As long as you don't get any benefit from it (by reselling, etc.)'.

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lol, it must be true if he doesn't care about the money..., I don't know what I think about it, although I do know that president bush made too many mistakes. The 9/11 was hyped up, and although it was disturbing, more people die everyday from other things too.

Going to see it today with Patchou, little sister and her boyfriend, and the Messenger Plus Babe !

Cool, have fun!  I should warn you it shows a beheading...but other than that its pretty good.

If I got to download the Spanish subtitled version...

I'm not very good at listening comprehension

Is it illagal to download this off the net? if not, anyone know where i can get it?

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Originally posted by Chloe
Is it illagal to download this off the net? if not, anyone know where i can get it?

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Originally posted by Chloe

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Originally posted by KeyStorm

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Originally posted by Chloe
Is it illagal to download this off the net? if not, anyone know where i can get it?

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Read the f* thread, will you?

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When i said 'off the net' i ment from a web site or somethin', not a P2P network! sorry if i wasn't specific enough!

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, yes, it is illegal to download the movie off of the net (even though the director of the film encourages you to ).

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Originally posted by Chloe

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Go pay the entrance fee, its not that expensive people .  Plus, you support the creator so he can keep exposing problems .

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
Plus, you support the creator so he can keep exposing problems

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It's all very accurate information, he tells you the proof and how he got to it throughout the movie.  Its from accurate sources .

Off Topic: Maybe I should make an Animated Siggy!

Righ.  You lot are all the same, none of you listen to a reasonable arguement.  Yea in my opinion Bush is a disease that needs eradicating.  Yes I have seen the film,  and to just dismiss it out of hand WITHOUT watching it says one hell of a lot about your character.

Give the film at least a chance to show you what it's about, don't just keep kissing Bush's ass orpointing a shotgun at him.  Do the world a favour and watch it.

The people that say it is truth, well that we will never know.  Bush isn't going to release a set of documents telling the world he fukked up (not saying that he did) and without knowing EXACTLY what was going on in the Whitehouse & Pentagon & the Senate AND Iraq you cannot have absolute truth.

wat he said!!
Bush is like the world leader, there needs to be another jfk assassination except with bush, when he stuffs up america he stuffs up the rest of the world.


* azn angel hopez the fed's wont come after her because of what she said

Haha, I agree.  I'm going to be very surprised if George W. Bush gets re-elected.  There are some dumb people who downright refuse to believe it when the evidence is in the movie and so clear.

Okay, time for a quote from the movie:
"Bin ladens are giving his family billions over a period of time, Americans are paying him $250,000 Per Year, so who's his daddy?" <-- Very well put!

* Dane hopes that the movie triggers some sort of Investigation (although since he is the president, what would it REALLY do? )

is there anyone higher than bush? like can the secret service investigate him without him knowing???

Nope, I wish they could though.

Michael Moore is an idiot. The movie has a few good points but most if it is a bunch of shit that Michael Moore pulled out of his ass. I am not saying that i support Bush because i don't and I disagree with lots of bushs decisions but the way Micheal Moore shows his Presidency isn't right.

Ah..More of you .  No, it isnt pulled "outta his ass", it is true facts.  If you paid attention to the movie, you'd see where he got the facts and how it all links together and how it is true.

Michael Moore won several awards for "Bowling for Columbine", and this movie has done far better, so I expect he'll win several more .

I think he shows Bush's presidency as it needs to be shown.  Disgusting.

Michael Moore is a genious, I have read most of his books, I even have a Bowling for Columbine poster on my wall. Unfortunatley shitty New Zealand doesn't have Fahrenheit 9/11 in cinemas so I'm trying to download it on BitTorrent. It's awesome he approves of this .

Bush can be Impeached for failing in his primary duty.  To Protect America & it's citizens.  The Senate can remove him with a 90% majority I believe.  The people can revolt & remove him aswell.

If it was up to me Bush would be no more than a dumb nobody from Texas.

Okay, I am yet to see the movie but I intend to critisise it anyway.

The events of 9/11 shattered and destroyed the lives of many Americans, as well as other people throughout the world - whether it was through the loss of a loved one, or just seeing something so horid happen. Do you really think any person would (apparent from terrorists here) want or intend to hurt these thousands of people in such a way, especially someone in a presidential position.

Yes, the Bin Laden family did run out of the United States, but if you knew someone that was involved in such an act and knew that the people wouldn't give you a chance, would you do the same? Think about it - I'm sure you would run if millions of people knew who you werem and would place the blame and responsibility directly on you.

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Fahrenheit 9/11 shows us a nation kept in constant fear by FBI alerts

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Fahrenheit 9/11 takes us inside that war to tell the stories we haven't heard

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From the article:
Moore has announced that he won't even appear on TV shows where he might face hostile questioning.

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From the article:
However, I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony that "fact-checking" is beside the point.

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Stephanopoulos makes a point... Moore doesn't provide any evidence for the "facts" in his movie and when asked why his "facts" can't be found in the 9/11 Commission reports he says that their reports are just preliminary and that they aren't necessarily complete.  Which leaves the idea of "How can Moore make any statements if the final reports aren't out?"

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Question:  Do you guys remember the Private Jessica Lynch story?  The one where Bush claimed she was maltreated and was heroically rescued.  Infact she was well taken care of & given 1st class Medical Treatment for her injuries (sustained in battle not by the Iraqi captors).

She came forward after coming hope denying any bad treatment & if anything placing the blame fairly on the Bush Government for lieing so blatantly to score points.

US forces use Cluster Bombs in CITIES, TOWNS & VILLAGES why?  Are they determined to kill as many people as possible innocent or not?  The US shoots at British Aircraft when AMERICAN KIT screws up.

Bush uses 9/11 Images in his Election Broadcasts which to me is an afront to all that is holy.  He is trying to use 9/11 as an Election Issue, does he not have a brain or something?  When more people realise what a con the Broadcasts are there will be huge outcries.

Michael Moore has the guts to go against the Political line to read between the lines.  Disney refused to release it (too many links with Bush there) so he had to go elsewhere.  I am not Anti American, but most Americans see a little Tax Cut that is only temporary & say "oh, lets vote for him" which is stupid, ignorant & so American.

some of the things people have said here are so so irrational...

Yes, Bush is a crap president, and has done a lot of stupid stuff, but that doesn't mean the film is right.  A few of the points dane listed are true, but we already knew those anyway.  The rest of them just scream "if you don't like bush let's make some fairytales up about him".

Firstly, 9/11.  Neither Bush, nor the government organised 9/11.  Why would they?  It hasn't earned them votes, but broken public trust because they didn't respond to a threat they were well aware of.  Generating revenue for the emergency services?  The emergency services don't generate money, they cost money government money that would otherwise be spent on things that would win votes.

Next, the theory Bin Ladens own 7% of the economy.  Firstly, we're not talking about Osama.  Many of his family have very openly disowned what he does, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be big investors.  Secondly, being a major investor does not mean they own 7% of the economy.  Not only do they not own AOL Time Warner or the Carlyle Group, but their investments cannot just be removed... it is nobody's responsibility to "keep them happy".  Once money goes into the company, it's theirs.  If anything, if it's even true, the Bin Ladens are helping keep the economy going.  However, you can't connect 9/11 to the prosperity of big companies, or of the bin ladens.  The event destroyed the offices of many companies that will have been part of the Carlyle Group and AOL Time Warner.  Those who weren't still suffered economic regression, as people became unwilling to invest in an economy that may be hit by another attack, and people became unwilling to personally use services that were under threat like the airlines industry.

Oh, and what's wrong with none of the congressmen reading the acts that they pass?  This is a grossly misleading use of the fact.  It is not congressmens' jobs to read long and complex acts.  They will have advisors and legal experts who read it and explain the effects it will have.  It is up to the congressmen to decide its resulting implications and make a decision based on that.  Get it right.

That should be enough for now to explain my reservations about this film.

, okay, this may be a big post, so much to respond to!

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Originally posted by Chris Boulton

The events of 9/11 shattered and destroyed the lives of many Americans, as well as other people throughout the world - whether it was through the loss of a loved one, or just seeing something so horid happen. Do you really think any person would (apparent from terrorists here) want or intend to hurt these thousands of people in such a way, especially someone in a presidential position.

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Originally posted by Chris Boulton
Yes, the Bin Laden family did run out of the United States, but if you knew someone that was involved in such an act and knew that the people wouldn't give you a chance, would you do the same? Think about it - I'm sure you would run if millions of people knew who you were and would place the blame and responsibility directly on you.

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Originally posted by Garndell
US forces use Cluster Bombs in CITIES, TOWNS & VILLAGES why?  Are they determined to kill as many people as possible innocent or not?  The US shoots at British Aircraft when AMERICAN KIT screws up.

Bush uses 9/11 Images in his Election Broadcasts which to me is an afront to all that is holy.  He is trying to use 9/11 as an Election Issue, does he not have a brain or something?  When more people realise what a con the Broadcasts are there will be huge outcries.

Michael Moore has the guts to go against the Political line to read between the lines.  Disney refused to release it (too many links with Bush there) so he had to go elsewhere.  I am not Anti American, but most Americans see a little Tax Cut that is only temporary & say "oh, lets vote for him" which is stupid, ignorant & so American.

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster

Firstly, 9/11.  Neither Bush, nor the government organised 9/11.  Why would they?  It hasn't earned them votes, but broken public trust because they didn't respond to a threat they were well aware of.  Generating revenue for the emergency services?  The emergency services don't generate money, they cost money government money that would otherwise be spent on things that would win votes.

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
Next, the theory Bin Ladens own 7% of the economy.  Firstly, we're not talking about Osama.  Many of his family have very openly disowned what he does, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be big investors.  Secondly, being a major investor does not mean they own 7% of the economy.  Not only do they not own AOL Time Warner or the Carlyle Group, but their investments cannot just be removed... it is nobody's responsibility to "keep them happy".  Once money goes into the company, it's theirs.  If anything, if it's even true, the Bin Ladens are helping keep the economy going.  However, you can't connect 9/11 to the prosperity of big companies, or of the bin ladens.  The event destroyed the offices of many companies that will have been part of the Carlyle Group and AOL Time Warner.  Those who weren't still suffered economic regression, as people became unwilling to invest in an economy that may be hit by another attack, and people became unwilling to personally use services that were under threat like the airlines industry.

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
Oh, and what's wrong with none of the congressmen reading the acts that they pass?  This is a grossly misleading use of the fact.  It is not congressmens' jobs to read long and complex acts.  They will have advisors and legal experts who read it and explain the effects it will have.  It is up to the congressmen to decide its resulting implications and make a decision based on that.  Get it right.

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So many BS-posts here... djeez.... I know, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but most "opinions" I see here are just so "irrational" (as Lobster kindly said).....

There is too much to react on in this thread. But for almost all "facts" that some people say in here, I can only say 1 thing: Don't be so paranoid, watch less conspiricy movies, and stop talking BS and come back to the real world.....

On 1 "fact" I'm gonna react though: "US forces use Cluster Bombs in CITIES, TOWNS & VILLAGES": That's utterly BS... They DO use groundtroops, they DONT use cluster bombs on towns... Do you even know what a cluster bomb is???? And if they do bomb, they use "smart"-bombs. True, some miss their target, but 99% of them hit the target within 10m accuracy. And no, that's not something that the bush-administry say to boost up their popularity. That's a militairy fact! Furthermore, this "war against terror" is fought IN cities. That's a whole different warfare then fighting a war in jungle, desert, open country. This is an urban-war, and that means also adapted warfare (and no use of cluster-bombs).

If they did use cluster-bombs on towns, do you think that the whole international community (of which a very big part is against the way the current "war" is fought) wouldn't know about it? Using such things isn't something you can cover-up! There are many journalists in Iraq, if they see such things, they will report it. And that's only one way of knowing these things. Another one: If such bombs are used, all the citizens will run for there life's and flee to other countries. Again something you can't cover-up...

All this said, I am against the concept of war as it is fought by America (or should I say Bush) atm. And I don't agree with most things that America/Bush is doing right now. And I also think that Bush is a very crap president. But that doesn't mean that I can fantasize about facts and make up stories (about the use of cluster-bombs for example). Also that still doesn't give me the right to twist around facts, so I can spice them up. Yes, Bush has some dodgy things on his record, he also proberly have some things on his record which only few people know about. But for crying out loud, don't believe all those conspiricy things and cover-ups and blown up facts....

Now, to eXoendo: reading all your posts in this thread I can only come to the conclussion (again) that you would believe anything they show/tell you, and in doing so you publish this on the net and blow things way out of proportion without even think about things (also see all the other old things that happend between you and the community)

The only decent, intelligent replies I fully can agree with are the ones from Chris and Lobster. All others I find rather "irrational" (and that's even said in a beautiful way).

F9/11 is a "movie" like there are so many movies which claim to be documentaries. In fact there is a category for such movies. And they aren't catagorized under documentaries like the ones from NGC or BBC (which are based only and nothing more then facts and given in a objective matter).
F9/11 is a part documentry (yes there are true facts in it, but be sure that it aren't the big "whoowhoo" facts) and part "Holywood"......

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

There is too much to react on in this thread. But for almost all "facts" that some people say in here, I can only say 1 thing: Don't be so paranoid, watch less conspiricy movies, and stop talking BS and come back to the real world.....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
On 1 "fact" I'm gonna react though: "US forces use Cluster Bombs in CITIES, TOWNS & VILLAGES": That's utterly BS... They DO use groundtroops, they DONT use cluster bombs on towns... Do you even know what a cluster bomb is???? And if they do bomb, they use "smart"-bombs. True, some miss their target, but 99% of them hit the target within 10m accuracy. And no, that's not something that the bush-administry say to boost up their popularity. That's a militairy fact! Furthermore, this "war against terror" is fought IN cities. That's a whole different warfare then fighting a war in jungle, desert, open country. This is an urban-war, and that means also adapted warfare (and no use of cluster-bombs).

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
All this said, I am against the concept of war as it is fought by America (or should I say Bush) atm. And I don't agree with most things that America/Bush is doing right now. And I also think that Bush is a very crap president. But that doesn't mean that I can fantasize about facts and make up stories (about the use of cluster-bombs for example). Also that still doesn't give me the right to twist around facts, so I can spice them up. Yes, Bush has some dodgy things on his record, he also proberly have some things on his record which only few people know about. But for crying out loud, don't believe all those conspiricy things and cover-ups and blown up facts....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Now, to eXoendo: reading all your posts in this thread I can only come to the conclussion (again) that you would believe anything they show/tell you, and in doing so you publish this on the net and blow things way out of proportion without even think about things (also see all the other old things that happend between you and the community)

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

The only decent, intelligent replies I fully can agree with are the ones from Chris and Lobster. All others I find rather "irrational" (and that's even said in a beautiful way).

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
The only decent, intelligent replies I fully can agree with are the ones from Chris and Lobster. All others I find rather "irrational" (and that's even said in a beautiful way).

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
More technical term instead of "Cluster Bombs" would be "Air Raids", which is dropping a bomb right over a target.  Still, same point, they ARE missing targets.

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
Do not make this a personal thing, for it is not.  I will believe things when theres VALID proof supporting it .

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Originally posted by eXoenDo

May I remind you that BILLIONS of dollars were raised after 9/11 to pay for the services and to pay the families?

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
There is factual evidence showing that the Bin Laden family owns a large portion of AOL Time Warner and The Carlyle Group.  They invested in so much (theres more than those 2 companies, I just cant remember them, whoever watches the movie can post if they remember ) that they DO own aprox. 7% of the economy.

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
I will believe things when theres VALID proof supporting it .

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I definitively like the view point of Will and I don't think any of you will be able to make another useful reply. Subject closed. I have nothing against anyone who would want to create a new thread about the subject, but it will have to be a constructive post.