Hello everyone,

as you may already know, a new version of Messenger Plus! will be released in about ten days from now. As always, bug fixes, improvements and new features will be present. However, there is one new thing tat you need to be aware of.

Messenger Plus! already brings many, many features to MSN Messenger and Windows Messenger. It has become very hard for me to decide what feature I should improve in each release. I currently have almost no idea about what features are really used and what features are dead-weight. In order to know where to concentrate my efforts, I've decided to add anonymous usage statistics into Messenger Plus!.

Once a week, when Messenger Plus! will check for updates, anonymous statistics will be sent to the server. These statistics are very simple one and consist of true/false information only such as "quicktext was used", "Plus! contact list icon was pressed", ... of course, nothing personal such as chat logs or your contact's emails will be sent. Again, only anonymous numerical data will be sent in a simple http request of less than 1Kb. This featurewill be on bydefaultand you'll easily beable to deactivate it permanently in the first window of the preferences panel (General Options\Local Settings).

Feel free to post comments about this new addition. I hope all of you will understand the necessity of such statistics. This way is the less intrusive way I found to send me the few data I need to continue to improve Messenger Plus! the right way.

Patchou

its an excelent idea to know which features should be removed so u can focus on most used features

Yah I think its a very good idea. I'm sure most features would get used , since none of them are really useless as such, but then again thats where third party plug ins come in.

I support the idea also. However when it comes out that a certain feature isn't use very often/much, I wouldn't remove it though, like Chrono suggested! Only scrap it from the further developing/improving-list. In that way, nobody will be dissapointed and you still can focus on the important (and new) features...

Sounds like a good idea Patchou. I can't wait till 10 days so I can get it .

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I support the idea also. However when it comes out that a certain feature isn't use very often/much, I wouldn't remove it though, like Chrono suggested! Only scrap it from the further developing/improving-list. In that way, nobody will be dissapointed and you still can focus on the important (and new) features...

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That is realy not "obvious"...... What you suggest is downgrading, aka ripping features from a product. That is a major step and not to be taken lightly! There is a very big difference between taking them of, and stop "improving"/"developing" them....

So, because I use the import/export feature only once in x months, instead of the custom names-feature I use every day, the import/export should be taken off???

I can tell you right now that when this is done with any feature, we will get many questions and complaints on the forum and on IRC...

I'm for this idea, but only if you ask the user to do that at first startup. Like trillian does.

And I agree with cookie, don't remove the feature, make it a hidden reg setting

yes I agree with cookie too.. some features may only be used not much or by a few users but why remove it ?? no reason for it.

when there comes a new version you expect to see the old features + more 

I'm all for this I don't mind letting programs that I like colleting info , i dont agree with ME and ZrednaZ why remove the fetures im sure some one out there has a use for every feture of plus and making it a reg setting would probly only confuse them and like cookie said people will just rush in and start asking where x gone and how do i get it back?

Just to let you know: no feature will be removed from Plus!. I'm sure all of them are used, even my a minority of people. However, I'll put my time on the features that are widely used, and that's why the stats are important.

It's a great way of advancing Plus to the next level and discovering what features can be advanced even futher.

It's a good idea, Patchou, and due to I trust you in the fact that it doesn't collect personal info, I have it enabled (yes, i have the translator beta ), unlike the similar feature of messenger (which i always disable)

I fully support the idea and I love to see Plus! Progress and fully trust you, but I think for the newer users a Privacy Policy on this feature should be embedded in the program and instead of being on by default, it should request authorization on the first running of Plus! if it can or cannot.

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Originally posted by Dane

I fully support the idea and I love to see Plus! Progress and fully trust you, but I think for the newer users a Privacy Policy on this feature should be embedded in the program and instead of being on by default, it should request authorization on the first running of Plus! if it can or cannot.

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Originally posted by Dane
I fully support the idea and I love to see Plus! Progress and fully trust you, but I think for the newer users a Privacy Policy on this feature should be embedded in the program and instead of being on by default, it should request authorization on the first running of Plus! if it can or cannot.

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Well, te thing is: if I prompt a mesage asking the user, most people will refuse because they will be afraid, so I can't do that, my stats wouldn't be useful anymore. You can monitor the connection if you want, the stats are sent once a week alongwith the autoupdate request. You'll see that there are only a bunch of php parameters equal to 1 and the country set in your Windows local settings, nothing more

Excellent idea Patchou, in this way Msg Plus! will become even better (if it isn't already the best )

What is Messenger Plus? Don't tell me I have came to the wrong forums or something.

Blah.. I try my hardest

Excellent news of the new release Patchou.

I'm sure you'll have a new advertising campaign for your Plus! merchandise soon too.. If you know what I mean

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Originally posted by Patchou
Well, te thing is: if I prompt a mesage asking the user, most people will refuse because they will be afraid, so I can't do that, my stats wouldn't be useful anymore.

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
conclusion: not asking = spyware.

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Well, obviously its not spyware but n00bs will think it was .

I think it should be notified as put on by default on installing (diff screen not in the sponsor one f.e. maybe with an option to turn it off...or with an explanation how to turn it off and a real clear explanation its to improve plus and that its anonymous) to avoid ppl complainin afterwards (msg plus! is spyin on me ooohhh )


P.s. I don't mind but u know how paranoid some ppl get

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Originally posted by Choli
nope. In that case, messenger would be also spyware.

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Me, I'm sorry but I totally disagree. My software is not a spyware just because it sends a couple of bytes of statistical information to my server once a week. This is the kind of mixup that makes everyone thinks everything is a spyware nowadays.

Please who don't want that kind of thing will be sart enoughto opentheir prefs and uncheck the option that sits on the first page . All the other people will just not care at all (and that's the vast majority). The only thing that could afraid an average user is a message box prompt asking to send statistics information to a server and that's why I won't do it. Ican't add it in the installer either because it would get confused with the sponsor stuff, and finally, I can't put warnings when you start Messenger because I've never wanted to prompt anything after Plus! was installed.

People who are suspicious will just monitor their internet connection and will see that the data that's being sent is no more than something like that:
stats.msgplus-update.net/msgplus-stats1.php?c=CAN&piiu=1&pciu=1&pw=1&pp=1&pqt=1&psp=1&qs=1&ufc=1&pi=1&fw=1

And to make everyone happy, here is the meaning of what's being sent... all capital letters of a word form the php parameter:
enum EStats1
{
    ES1_QuickTextUse = 0x1,
    ES1_PlusImIconUse = 0x2,
    ES1_PlusCtcIconUse = 0x4,
    ES1_PrefWindow = 0x8,
    ES1_PrefPlugins = 0x10,
    ES1_PrefQuickText = 0x20,
    ES1_PrefQuickIcons = 0x40,
    ES1_PrefStatusPreset = 0x80,
    ES1_UseEncryption = 0x100,
    ES1_QuoteSender = 0x200,
    ES1_UseQuoteSender = 0x400,
    ES1_UseFindText = 0x800,
    ES1_UseFormatCodes = 0x1000,
    ES1_TextRecall = 0x2000,
    ES1_PluginInstalled = 0x4000,
    ES1_UseScheduler = 0x8000,
    ES1_UseLockMessenger = 0x10000,
    ES1_UseBossProtect = 0x20000,
    ES1_UsePersoStatusName = 0x40000,
    ES1_UsePersoStatusMsg = 0x80000,
    ES1_UseAutoAccept = 0x100000,
    ES1_HideAdvert = 0x200000,
    ES1_WordFilters = 0x400000,
    ES1_Pop3Emails = 0x800000,
    ES1_EventLogViewer = 0x1000000,
    ES1_EventLogFile = 0x2000000,
    ES1_ChatLogFilter = 0x4000000,
    ES1_CustomNames = 0x8000000,
    ES1_UseSpecialTags = 0x10000000,
    ES1_UseOverrideTextFormat = 0x20000000,
    ES1_UseSoundCommands = 0x40000000,
    ES1_FloatWindows = 0x80000000
};

Patchou

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Originally posted by Patchou
Me, I'm sorry but I totally disagree. My software is not a spyware just because it sends a couple of bytes of statistical information to my server once a week. This is the kind of mixup that makes everyone thinks everything is a spyware nowadays.

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

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Originally posted by Patchou
Me, I'm sorry but I totally disagree. My software is not a spyware just because it sends a couple of bytes of statistical information to my server once a week. This is the kind of mixup that makes everyone thinks everything is a spyware nowadays.

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spyware = sending stuff you do, but not confidential info, to a server. without warning
evil spyware = spyware and sends confidential info to a server.

what is msgplus then? it does what spyware does, unles you give that stupid dialog box?

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

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Originally posted by Choli
nope. In that case, messenger would be also spyware.

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nope, as messenger has it disabled by default

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Originally posted by Patchou
Me, I'm sorry but I totally disagree. My software is not a spyware just because it sends a couple of bytes of statistical information to my server once a week. This is the kind of mixup that makes everyone thinks everything is a spyware nowadays.

etc....

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Originally posted by Choli
no. you are wrong. It is enabled by default, and, even more, each time you sign in in a diferent computer it is enabled.

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Originally posted by MSN Messenger
Click here to join the customer improvement program.

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The dictionary definition of spyware is:

any software that covertly gathers information about a user while he/she navigates the Internet and transmits the information to an individual or company that uses it for marketing or other purposes; also called adware

Now the question is, does Plus covertly collect information? Well if there is an option to turn it off clearly in the Preferences, how can it be spying? Also does it contain information for marketing purposes?

Really we are talking a question of semantics. The real question is, is this a bad thing? If its helping Patchou then I am all for it. It contains non-personal information so it can't be used against a person. Most people won't even notice it. And those people that do notice should hopefully be smart enough to turn it off.

To be honest I expect there will be a few post on here akin to the ones about the optional sponsor program. Again I think our response will be the same to such posters. Use the search I reckon will be the common response.

Other programs do similar things. Winamp allows you to send anonymouse usage statistics back to them. Ask yourself, what really is the problem here??

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Originally posted by Jeronimo
Winamp allows you to send anonymouse usage statistics back to them. Ask yourself, what really is the problem here??

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My argument is based on the fact that the definition of spyware is not clear. If you don't agree with the dictionary definition, then what do we define it as?

As I say, its a question of semantics. The question I am asking is, is this going to do any harm whatsoever? If not, why are we arguing?

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Originally posted by Jeronimo
If not, why are we arguing?

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Messenger Plus! sends statistical information if you use the feature or not. Spyware sends what you do on the internet. Thats the different. Plus! wont send any information regarding what you have your settings set to just if you use them or not.

I have the Beta and all is good here. No complaints about usage statistics.

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Originally posted by Dane
Well, obviously its not spyware but n00bs will think it was

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
noobs who don't know what "statistics" means

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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Why didn't you claim MP! was spyware when the auto-updater appeared? It is sending following message from your system: "I have an old version of software XX". Isn't that also spyware in your point of view?

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good idea.  I was gonna suggest putting a disable button in the prefference window.. but your already ahead 1 step ahead of me

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Originally posted by Matty.
Messenger Plus! sends statistical information if you use the feature or not. Spyware sends what you do on the internet. Thats the different. Plus! wont send any information regarding what you have your settings set to just if you use them or not.

I have the Beta and all is good here. No complaints about usage statistics.

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Originally posted by BEWARE^^
i agree with matty in this thread and i have a beta version to and as far as i can find no problems/bugs found with the usage statistics.

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Originally posted by Choli

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Originally posted by BEWARE^^
i agree with matty in this thread and i have a beta version to and as far as i can find no problems/bugs found with the usage statistics.

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where did you get the beta from?

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Originally posted by Choli

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Originally posted by BEWARE^^
i agree with matty in this thread and i have a beta version to and as far as i can find no problems/bugs found with the usage statistics.

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where did you get the beta from?

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Well, as everyone agrees, let's close this now. I bet that we won't get much complains about it anyway, there's nothing to complain about, I'm not "using" anyone and there's nothingwrong in sending this kind of stats. Alot of software do it without you noticing, Plus! does it already you know: your current language/windows version and Plus! version is sent to the server when auto-update is checking and I never saw even one post talking about it. I could have added all these new stats to the auto-update url and nobody would haver ever complained but I didn't and for those of you who are paranoid, I just thought a new option would be more appropriate.