Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message - Printable Version
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Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-12-2004 at 10:04 PM
Hi everyone,
Not sure if anyone has asked this before. A search turned up nothing, so here goes...
Is it possible to get MSN Messenger to accept Ctrl-Enter to send a message, rather than just Enter? I'm a whore for the ICQ way, and when I'm forced to run GAIM I use it there too. Switching over when I get back to my Windows machine is just annoying 
I've has a play with ResHack (found in the multi-line nick threads... what an amazing little util!) but I couldn't see anything that looked like the main conversation window to fettle.
(If there's something in Plus to do this already, I humbly bow before the tirade of abuse I deserve 
If not, maybe it's a wishlist item)
Thanks in advance,
QWasson
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by matty on 09-12-2004 at 10:45 PM
As far as I know you cannot change the way it works. Microsoft created it that way to allow the use of multi line messages. So unfortunatly no it cannot be changed. (Unless CookieRevised knows a hex edit for it)
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by Patchou on 09-12-2004 at 11:11 PM
Well, Plus! could do this but unfortunately I won't do it, Ctrl+Enter and Shift+Enter are standard stuff in Windows, othersoftware shouldn'T change the way they work.
Sorry!
Patch
RE: RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-12-2004 at 11:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
Ctrl+Enter and Shift+Enter are standard stuff in Windows, othersoftware shouldn'T change the way they work.
1: I always believe that it should be up to the users. If we left things the way they were, we'd still be using arrow keys for playing Doom, rather than W, A, S and D
2: And if we're going to leave things standard, why bother writing MsgPlus? (But please don't stop writing, it rules!)
That aside, it's a valid point. The option would still be nice though, pretty please?
QW
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by CookieRevised on 09-12-2004 at 11:55 PM
quote:1) ermmm... using arrow keys for playing Doom is a good thing if you ask me, because they are standard on every keyboard and standard put in a certain way so up is up and down is down... W, A, S and D are placed differently on many different keyboard types... Also, if I want to press the up key, I'm not going to press on W (or whatever), I'm going to instinctivly press the up arrow...
Originally posted by QWasson
1: I always believe that it should be up to the users. If we left things the way they were, we'd still be using arrow keys for playing Doom, rather than W, A, S and D
2) That doesn't have anything todo with "standards"...
"leaving something standard" and "using a standard" both use the word "standard", but the word means something different...
* "leaving something standard" => Leaving it the way it is; don't add anything...
* "using a standard" => using something that is defined and has certain rules (like the use of "enter" and "ctrl-enter"), so that everybody instinctivly knows how to use it or what the meaning is...
Windows wouldn't be Windows if there was no standard among programs and how they use certain key-strokes.
Imagine: Word uses the tab-key to enter spaces instead of the spacebar, Paint uses only the right mousbutton and not the left mousbutton, Excel uses the function keys to enter a digit between 1 and 12, and in Windows Explorer you have to use the minus-key to delete a file instead of the "del"-key..... It would be total chaos....
RE: RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-13-2004 at 12:23 AM
Apologies in advance for how off-topic this is getting.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
1) ermmm... using arrow keys for playing Doom is a good thing if you ask me.... Because they are standard on every keyboard and standard put in a certain way so up is up and down is down.... W, A, S and D are placed differently on many different keyboard types...
Also, if I want to press the up key, I'm not going to press on W (or whatever), I'm going to press the up arrow...
Well, OK, I suppose that people using left-handed US Dvorak [1] wouldn't get anything except a severe case of cramp from those exact keys, but using the keys that correspond to W, A, S and D on a standard QWERTY keyboard is amazing for FPSing. Left hand there, right hand on the mouse. It's an ideal set-up. I accept that, for some people, the arrow keys may be better (left-handed people, with the mouse on the other side, mayhap). Giving people the choice to re-map keys means that everyone can be happy.
quote:
2) That doesn't have anything todo with "standards"...
"leaving something standard" and "using a standard" both use the word "standard", but the word means something different...
* "leaving something standard" => Leaving it the way it is; don't add anything...
* "using a standard" => using something that is defined and has certain rules (like the use of "enter" and "ctrl-enter"), so that everybody instinctivly knows how to use it or what the meaning is...
I was being more than a little facetious with that comment
Instinctively, I use Enter as a line feed. In a word processor, pressing Enter doesn't send your document to the printer, does it? It moves the cursor down to the next line. In text boxes in HTML forms the same happens. I've used it a number of times while writing this. So when this standard doesn't seem to have any consistent application, where is the harm in offering both options (Or all n options, if you let the user define their own keys)?
QW
[1] http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by Vantage on 09-13-2004 at 12:54 AM
quote:Can You Please Tell Me Whats So Hard About Just Pressing Enter? Some people are just to lazy,even if the CTRL thing did exists it's useless
Originally posted by QWasson
Hi everyone,
Not sure if anyone has asked this before. A search turned up nothing, so here goes...
Is it possible to get MSN Messenger to accept Ctrl-Enter to send a message, rather than just Enter? I'm a whore for the ICQ way, and when I'm forced to run GAIM I use it there too. Switching over when I get back to my Windows machine is just annoying
I've has a play with ResHack (found in the multi-line nick threads... what an amazing little util!) but I couldn't see anything that looked like the main conversation window to fettle.
(If there's something in Plus to do this already, I humbly bow before the tirade of abuse I deserve
Thanks in advance,
QWasson
RE: RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-13-2004 at 01:11 AM
quote:Of course, having a modifier key to press makes one lazier
Originally posted by Vantage
Can You Please Tell Me Whats So Hard About Just Pressing Enter? Some people are just to lazy,even if the CTRL thing did exists it's useless
It's pure force of habit. Call it lazyness if you want to. When you do something one way a goodly portion of the time and it works without you paying any attention, it can be niggling when it has to be done another way. Ask any number of drivers who have to use another car for some reason, and the indicator control is on the wrong side, or people who switch mobile phone and then have to get used to a new way of entering punctuation and such. Yes, they are little things, but you can't argue with the little things... It's the little things that make up life.
And as for the ctrl thing being useless, having a ways to both send messages and insert new lines might be usless to you, but other people do use it.
QW
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by CookieRevised on 09-13-2004 at 01:21 AM
quote:If the ability is needed to invoke something automaticly AND to write multiple lines, then Enter is ALWAYS used for invoking the action and Ctrl-Enter for the next line, not vice versa. Ctrl-Enter is NEVER used to invoke something! This is very consistent in all Windows applications...
Originally posted by QWasson
Instinctively, I use Enter as a line feed. In a word processor, pressing Enter doesn't send your document to the printer, does it? It moves the cursor down to the next line. In text boxes in HTML forms the same happens. I've used it a number of times while writing this. So when this standard doesn't seem to have any consistent application, where is the harm in offering both options (Or all n options, if you let the user define their own keys)?
PS: and on the "doom"-keys... even for righthanded people (keyboard on left hand, mouse on the right) the arrow keys are number 1 choice! There is nothing ackward about it... Keys like "AWSD" in games are made because of the possebility of playing with two people at the same keyboard (player 1 uses the arrow keys, and player 2 the laternative keys (eg awsd"))
quote:And that is just the reason why things are standarized and Patchou wont change this...
Originally posted by QWasson
When you do something one way a goodly portion of the time and it works without you paying any attention, it can be niggling when it has to be done another way.
RE: RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-13-2004 at 01:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If the ability is needed to invoke something automaticly AND to write multiple lines, then Enter is ALWAYS used for invoking the action and Ctrl-Enter for the next line, not vice versa. Ctrl-Enter is NEVER used to invoke something! This is very consistent in all Windows applications...
Open Internet Explorer. In the address bar, type 'google' (just that, no 'http://', no 'www', no '.com') and press ctrl-enter. Et voila, you are taken to www.google.com. You have invoked the AutoComplete feature
Open Outlook Express. Compose a little email, remembering to fill in the address field. Now press ctrl-enter. The email has been sent.
Now, I'm not expert in Windows application development, but I'd say that if Microsoft decide you can use ctrl-enter to invoke something, or send something, then it's OK to do so, from a convention standpoint.
quote:
PS: and on the "doom"-keys... even for righthanded people (keyboard on left hand, mouse on the right) the arrow keys are number 1 choice! There is nothing ackward about it... Keys like "AWSD" in games are made because of the possebility of playing with two people at the same keyboard (player 1 uses the arrow keys, and player 2 the laternative keys (eg awsd"))
You muct be much narrower across the shoulders than me, or have a much bigger desk to have a comfortable amount of room to manage that. And having two people playing a FPS on the same computer is something I'd really like to see...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q...2+keys&btnG=Search
I know you can make Google say anything you want it to, but I think some of those links show that FPS players like the W, A, S and D keys. Rainbow Six comes preconfigured to use them.
quote:
And that is just the reason why things are standarized
Isn't the MSN9 protocol a standard? Doesn't MsgPlus add features on top of that protocol for the benifit of its users? Standards are a great thing, I'll not dispute that. But attempting to standardise the human element in computing is never going to work.
QW
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by ahtuin on 09-13-2004 at 02:07 AM
I was sent the link to this thread by the originator. Before there are any questions about IP's, yes they are the same as we on the same network.
I am a little puzzled by the flat refusal to consider the suggested change as worthwhile. He is not asking for the change to be compulsory usage for everyone, only that there be an option for users to select their own particular choice of key(s). Presumably the existing setup will remain as the default, with any changes being made through user options. He didn't send any thoughts on how the selection might be made.
The argument, that to deviate from the standard is wrong, seems to be self-destructive in this forum. If it is wrong to offer users a choice, then why does Messenger Plus exist?
If I understand the purpose of Messenger Plus correctly, it is here to offer additional features. These deviate from the original, and the latest, standard concept of Messenger, and offer users a range of choices as to how they use their software.
Is the request made by Qwasson any more or less than that? Just a chance to have a choice is how I see it.
This isn't just a case of unconsidered support for someone I know. I do let him know, in no uncertain terms,when I think he's got it wrong.
Regards
Ahtuin
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by bach_m on 09-13-2004 at 02:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by QWasson
but I think some of those links show that FPS players like the W, A, S and D keys
OMG! 35 RESULTS!!!!
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-13-2004 at 07:35 AM
quote:
OMG! 35 RESULTS!!!!
Have some more then...
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by CookieRevised on 09-13-2004 at 11:14 AM
quote:*sigh*
Originally posted by QWasson
Open Internet Explorer. In the address bar, type 'google' (just that, no 'http://', no 'www', no '.com') and press ctrl-enter. Et voila, you are taken to www.google.com. You have invoked the AutoComplete feature
Open Outlook Express. Compose a little email, remembering to fill in the address field. Now press ctrl-enter. The email has been sent.
Now, I'm not expert in Windows application development, but I'd say that if Microsoft decide you can use ctrl-enter to invoke something, or send something, then it's OK to do so, from a convention standpoint.
I said:
quote:Only when there is no need for multilines, (like in the address bar) then Ctrl-Enter may have the same function as Enter...
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If the ability is needed to invoke something automaticly AND to write multiple lines, then Enter is ALWAYS used for invoking the action and Ctrl-Enter for the next line, not vice versa.
quote:I dunno what kind of keyboard you have, but in the worst case I only need to move my keyboard 10cm to be in a very very confortable position to use the arrow keys and the mouse....
Originally posted by QWasson
You muct be much narrower across the shoulders than me, or have a much bigger desk to have a comfortable amount of room to manage that. And having two people playing a FPS on the same computer is something I'd really like to see...
quote:That ability exists since games were first made back in the 80's.... Even very big, heavly graphic games have that ability. (not all of course, but many many have)...
Originally posted by QWasson
And having two people playing a FPS on the same computer is something I'd really like to see...
quote:Plus! doesn't touch the protocol...
Originally posted by QWasson
Isn't the MSN9 protocol a standard? Doesn't MsgPlus add features on top of that protocol for the benifit of its users?
Look, you can argue all you want.... The way Ctrl-Enter and Enter works is VERY consistent in all Windows apps and you can ask any developer how it is implemented. And comparing messenger+msgplus to standarized UI is useless cause you're comparing two different things. Messenger+MsgPlus is adding more features to Messenger while conserving the standard Windows UI....
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by lhunath on 09-13-2004 at 12:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Only when there is no need for multilines, (like in the address bar) then Ctrl-Enter may have the same function as Enter...
quote:The body textarea of the mail is a multiline textbox.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Open Outlook Express. Compose a little email, remembering to fill in the address field. Now press ctrl-enter. The email has been sent.
Btw, I think Shift-Enter has, and always should have, a newline function, in multiline textboxes, but Ctrl-Enter never really had that fuction. Ctrl-Enter isn't generally standardised throughout windows applications, which is exactly the reason why ICQ and many other messangers used that key combination to invoke the Send, whereas with Enter, being the replacement of "Return", being the actual line-feed, it would only be logic that it has the function to add a line, rather than to invoke, in a multiline conversation box. The reason we all think it isn't logic, is because we're so very used to it sending the message, rather than newlining. Enter always has and always will newline in a textarea.
If we have a textarea in an options dialog, and we press enter to newline in it, and the dialog closes because it assumes that the Enter key was supposed to invoke the "Ok" button, we get irritated.
quote:He didn't say it does, he said it added features unsupported by the way MSN Messenger handles the protocol.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by QWasson
Isn't the MSN9 protocol a standard? Doesn't MsgPlus add features on top of that protocol for the benifit of its users?
Plus! doesn't touch the protocol...
quote:Shift-Enter, yes, newline - no new paragraph
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The way Ctrl-Enter and Enter works is VERY consistent in all Windows apps and you can ask any developer how it is implemented.
Enter, yes, newline - in all multilie textfields
Ctrl-Enter, no, it does not have a consistant meaning, and if it does, please do enlighten me.
quote:How childish.
Originally posted by bach_m
OMG! 35 RESULTS!!!!
quote:Which is exactly why I am perplexed by this refusal, I do ask Patchou to reconscidder and/or back his arguements properly so that we may follow in his logic and understand why his choice is what it is.
Originally posted by ahtuin
I am a little puzzled by the flat refusal to consider the suggested change as worthwhile. He is not asking for the change to be compulsory usage for everyone, only that there be an option for users to select their own particular choice of key(s). Presumably the existing setup will remain as the default, with any changes being made through user options. He didn't send any thoughts on how the selection might be made.
quote:Arrow keys are not the nr1 choice, they are the logic choice. For gamers, it has, after lots of experience, become more than clear that the space between your hands which is larger when using the QZSD (azerty) keys rather than the arrow keys gives you a very large accuracy benefit in controling the mouse and offers you a more dynamic access to other alternative keys around the main control keys. Arrow keys were used in old games because of the logic, experience learned gamers that they are not optimal, so games which offered customisation were customised in a way to optimise the gaming experience. Since you're most likely not a "hardcore" gamer, just like me, frankly, you probably don't really understand how those keys could be more handy. But trust me, they are.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: and on the "doom"-keys... even for righthanded people (keyboard on left hand, mouse on the right) the arrow keys are number 1 choice! There is nothing ackward about it... Keys like "AWSD" in games are made because of the possebility of playing with two people at the same keyboard (player 1 uses the arrow keys, and player 2 the laternative keys (eg awsd"))
And this isn't as much off topic as you would believe, because it very beautifully illustrates how customisation can result in optimisation of usage. We all need standards, and we all need to comply to them to understand each other and keep the order around us. But defaults are what should learn us standards, when people decide defaults aren't suitable for their needs, then they should have the right to personalise them. Hence why so many experienced users prefer Linux/Litestep/..., only because windows offers them a too limited range of customisations. Just as is the case with the existance of tweaking sites, and how everybody who knows how to control their pc a little, wants to tweak & personalise it.
~lhun
Edit./
If Patchou really refuses, then you can always do it by downloading a program that can send keystrokes on Ctrl-Enter in a specific WindowClass.. =/
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by FrozernFire on 09-13-2004 at 12:46 PM
in windows it's the enter key that "enters" the stuff. shift + enter makes a new line. and lets say you need to type a msn fast, won't enter key be easier? but somehow i don't use a new line often on msn.
unreal tournament 2004: does anyone play it? wasd are the standard keys. i rather use them for up down left right as the weapon number keys are just right on top. it's a long stretch from the arrow keys to the numbers. but i don't know about other games. ut2004 is just built for the left hand on keyboard on right hand on mouse
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by lhunath on 09-14-2004 at 01:13 PM
quote:Exactly my point. =)
Originally posted by FrozernFire
I rather use them for up down left right as the weapon number keys are just right on top. it's a long stretch from the arrow keys to the numbers.
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-14-2004 at 02:00 PM
quote:Wow, thanks lhunath! I was beginning to think that I was going to hit a brick wall of hostility on this whole matter. You managed to sum up the whole issue very eloquently. I note no one has made any counter against it.
Originally posted by lhunath
...a whole lot of sense....
Patchou has made his judgement that he won't do it, and that's entirely his perogative. Who knows, maybe it simply can't be done. Like I say, I'm no Windows developer.
As for the 'standard' way that Windows does things, no end of these ways are customisable. For instance, the mouse. By default, the left button is the primary button, it does things like selecting. The right mouse button traditionally brings up a context menu. In the 'Mouse' section in Control panel however, you can SWAP these two actions. You can even reconfigure the behaviour of the mouse regarding double clicking, so you only need to single click on icons. The defaults are undoubtedly the most common settings, and if you go to a computer where it is set differently to how you like it, it can be strange. But the option exists for the user to set things up as they want. So even this 'standardised' UI is customisable.
RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by lhunath on 09-14-2004 at 02:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by QWasson
Patchou has made his judgement that he won't do it, and that's entirely his perogative. Who knows, maybe it simply can't be done. Like I say, I'm no Windows developer.
quote:Sadly.
Originally posted by Patchou
Well, Plus! could do this but unfortunately I won't do it
quote:You're welcome, only just defending the truth. =)
Originally posted by QWasson
Wow, thanks lhunath!
[no subject] by buqingzi on 09-14-2004 at 05:28 PM
RE: RE: Using Ctrl-Enter to send a message by QWasson on 09-15-2004 at 09:16 AM
quote:Now there's an idea! I've set up a poll here.
Originally posted by buqingzi
The way I see it, also make a poll.