Yasser Arafat dead - Printable Version
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Yasser Arafat dead by andrey on 11-11-2004 at 08:53 PM
quote:May God rest his soul.
Originally posted by news.bbc.co.uk
Mr Arafat, who dominated his people's struggle for 40 years, died aged 75 of multiple organ failure at 0330 (0230 GMT) on Thursday.
Israel, which saw him as a terrorist, has talked of a new chance for peace.
He had been admitted to the hospital after arriving from the West Bank on 29 October as doctors struggled to diagnose his illness.
Some militants accused Israel of causing his death and a leader of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Raid al-Aidi, swore to avenge it:
"We hold Israel fully responsible for the assassination of our mentor and father... It was caused by the siege imposed on him."
Officials say Mr Arafat may be interred in a stone coffin so that one day his body can be moved to Jerusalem where Palestinians hope to have the capital of a future independent state.
What do you think ? Will the situation in Palestina / Israel change ?
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by user27089 on 11-11-2004 at 08:55 PM
I think that if they get the Prime Minister that George Bush knows, and could do business with, then I think that the situation will gradually get better, and they may live in peace one day.
Oh, and sorry bout his death.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Maniac on 11-11-2004 at 08:56 PM
May he rest in peace.
Hopefully this stupid conflict will finish soon, it has been going on for too long, just get along with each other people!
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by .blade// on 11-11-2004 at 09:10 PM
I think they're fucked. Anyone that takes over his position will likely just make things worse imo.
Either way - May he rest in peace.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by saralk on 11-11-2004 at 10:10 PM
I think it could be good for the peace process, the Israeli govt. said that they would never talk to Yasser, now there will be a new leader, things will change, maybe with pressure from the US they will be forced to even more.
Either way, im eagerly anticipating sock's contribution to this thread.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by bach_m on 11-11-2004 at 10:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by saralk
I think it could be good for the peace process, the Israeli govt. said that they would never talk to Yasser, now there will be a new leader, things will change, maybe with pressure from the US they will be forced to even more.
I agree.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by FrozernFire on 11-12-2004 at 05:52 AM
there might be some unrest before everything can go back to normal with a new leader, and even longer for peace between Palestine and Irsael
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by .Roy on 11-12-2004 at 09:24 AM
actually here in Israel thats where i live.. People are really happy that he died..
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by sock on 11-12-2004 at 11:32 AM
If you ask me, it is the Palestinians who should be happy, not us Israelis. While his people were suffering, Arafat did nothing to promote a peace process.
Is Israel to blame for the Palestinians' current condition? Partially. Our parliament looks like a zoo (and acts accordingly), most of the nation doesn't even trust it. But I assure you that none of us are enjoying this condition, and their leadership is to blame for it equally.
I personally think what really makes this conflict so bad, is religion. Religion is a regressive element. Religion makes many of our people (settlers and those who support them) bring the nation into war just for some land. They are destroying the foundations of this country. Religion also makes many of the Palestinians turn to extreme violence, and truly believe it would help their cause.
(That's not to say that religion is always a bad thing. Religion can be a wonderful thing if you channel it to good things. I am sure there are many religious people on both sides who would like to end this conflict in a peaceful manner.)
Am I happy that Arafat is dead? Well, I'm not happy he's dead just for the sake of it. I am glad that now there may be some changes - now the Palestinians may get a better leadership. Evidently, this could not have happened while Arafat lived.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by CookieRevised on 11-12-2004 at 01:46 PM
quote:I don't believe that is totaly correct though. Arafat did many things to have peace and to come to a solution. It is only in the last few years that he has "gone back" to his stuburn himself and refusing any negatiation (Camp David). But don't forget that he did a lot of good things also (he won the Nobel price for peace for that).
Originally posted by sock
While his people were suffering, Arafat did nothing to promote a peace process.
I hope that there will be a solution now though, although I think it will not be soon unfortunatly as for some extremists Palestinians Arafat will be a martyr and that's even more dangerous then a "life Arafat" so to speak. I suspect even more violence in the coming days from extremists from the Palestinian side and of course Israel will react with violence...... I surely hope I'm wrong though...
For those who want to know who Arafat was (terrorist vs peace nobel price winner):
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/arafat.html
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Omar on 11-12-2004 at 02:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sock
I personally think what really makes this conflict so bad, is religion. Religion is a regressive element. Religion makes many of our people (settlers and those who support them) bring the nation into war just for some land. They are destroying the foundations of this country. Religion also makes many of the Palestinians turn to extreme violence, and truly believe it would help their cause
I dont agree with you on this one.... Im an atheist...but religion is a good thing... Islam, jewish faith, catholicism, etc....
It's people's demagogy (sp?) that causes arab people to turn into terrorists...the coran doesnt say "Go out and blow yourself up", neither the torah gives out specific coordinates where the state of israel should be...
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by KeyStorm on 11-12-2004 at 03:09 PM
At least he defended the UNO reolutions, which the Israeli government did not. But well, both parts were as bad and one can really say one was better than the other easily. Simon Peres and Isaac Rabin did also get the Nobel Price at the same time.
Time will tell what this death means to the Near East Conflict.
Edit:
quote:
Originally posted by Omar
It's people's demagogy (sp?) that causes arab people to turn into terrorists...the coran doesnt say "Go out and blow yourself up", neither the torah gives out specific coordinates where the state of israel should be...
And what's the Islamic Yihad other than a war founded in a fundamentalist view of religion?
(of course, not only Islamists can be fundamental, look at the Northern Ireland conflict)
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Sunshine on 11-12-2004 at 03:17 PM
* Sunshine wonders why religion makes ppl want a certain piece of land...
I also noticed religions are often the cause of wars (recent happenings in the Netherlands prooves that once more)..if ppl would stop offending other ppls religion maybe this word would be a better place..leave each in his/her own value 
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by KeyStorm on 11-12-2004 at 03:31 PM
I guess it's part of the human mankind to somehow reject other's points of view while defending the own ones. We've seen this in the past and we see it now. Many Northamericans may hate the Islam, as well as Catholics may hate Protestants in Ireland (as I just said). But this is bound to the supremacy of the religions in history and how they obligated others to be converted (Spanish Catholic Kings, f.i.).
But there are always other examples, like Germany where a half is Catholic and the other half is Protestant and the coexistence is peacefull between them. Although there still exists implicit or explicit anti-semitism, but it has luckily gone down dramatically in the last half century.
In all, mankind should learn to respect other's religions, like Buddhism does from its principles. It would make the world a more peaceful place to live.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by user27089 on 11-12-2004 at 04:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sock
I personally think what really makes this conflict so bad, is religion. Religion is a regressive element. Religion makes many of our people (settlers and those who support them) bring the nation into war just for some land. They are destroying the foundations of this country. Religion also makes many of the Palestinians turn to extreme violence, and truly believe it would help their cause.
I agree completely, religion causes many different outputs, and these religions also put a stereotypical view on that person, and make them have views at what is right and wrong. No offence to any people that are at one with their religion out there, but I think that religion is a load of rubbish, everything that is said in the bible, contradict's itself at another point, all of the different Gods that there supposedly are, they just make a mess out of all of the other religions, which cause conflict between the two.
Religion also causes racism and things, many people blame the muslim's for the terrorist attacks. Surely, its a select few of the Muslim religion that take part in these acts of terror, putting shame to all the other muslim's around. People think that it is only these, surely there are many more, as far as I know, the Irish Republic Army are Catholic, do I get discriminated because of them.
I think that all of this is just a mess.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by aNILEator on 11-12-2004 at 04:48 PM
i don't see how its going to affect me much, he led a good life i suppose, he did some wrong things but made up for it with his leadership and stuff.
Meh politics and government 
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by saralk on 11-12-2004 at 04:54 PM
Religion can be a great thing, i myself am a hindu happy diwali. And i find it extremely hard to believe most of the stories of creating in Hinduism, however if you take the philosophy behind most religions you will find they are beautiful things.
For example, in Islam there is something called Zakat, Muslims give some of their disposable income to thier local Islamic community (in some Islamic countries it is tax), typically 2.5%. And if someone in the community loses their job or falls upon hard times, the community will help him/her out, get them back on their feet, pay their bills while they help themselves.
Now isnt that a really nice thing.
If people stopped thinking in their own self obsessed world just for one minute, the world would be a lot happier place.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Sunshine on 11-12-2004 at 05:08 PM
Note: all religions origined from one..it's because some higher placed religious ppl differed in how it should be explained/interpreted that it got split up..so no matter what name your god has it all boils down to the same thing.
Same goes for paganism (believing in multiple gods)..they just gave their gods different names...
As for me, i think there exists a higher something but it isn't necessarily a person (in the end it's you making things happen..faith/destiny brings ppl together it's what you do with it that matters)..also i respect ppl of other beliefs and will never attack em on it and expect them to do the same..afterall we're all human (with the same feelings).
Treat others as you like to be treated yourself...
also note: who does bad will receive bad back doubled.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by user27089 on 11-12-2004 at 05:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by saralk
Religion can be a great thing, i myself am a hindu happy diwali. And i find it extremely hard to believe most of the stories of creating in Hinduism, however if you take the philosophy behind most religions you will find they are beautiful things.
For example, in Islam there is something called Zakat, Muslims give some of their disposable income to thier local Islamic community (in some Islamic countries it is tax), typically 2.5%. And if someone in the community loses their job or falls upon hard times, the community will help him/her out, get them back on their feet, pay their bills while they help themselves.
Now isnt that a really nice thing.
If people stopped thinking in their own self obsessed world just for one minute, the world would be a lot happier place.
Religion is indeed a great things at some points in our lifetime, happy diwali by the way... I myself am A roman catholic, and I go to church every week, but i've been thinking about it, and it really is hard to grasp the concept, we can't be ensured about the creation and so on, so why do we drag ourselves to watch a man preach about something that he's preached about every year, we've heard it all before! Now i'm not offending my religion or anything, because that would just be stupid, all I need to see is one bit of proof, that God is real, and that proof is definitely NOT the bible. How do we know that it all isn't just one big set of stories, in 2000 years, people might think that Harry Potter is a prophet, for all we know, Jesus could be an ancient Harry Potter, we can't be sure. Most of the stories in the bible have meanings and some are quite beautiful yes.
I think that what the muslims do in Islam is a type of great generosity to their neighbours.
In the end, religion all links up, but contradiction is before us constantly in every different religions 'bible'.
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Jhrono on 11-12-2004 at 05:29 PM
i'm on the palestinian side...but this death will only bring more strength to the israelites(is this the word?)...arafat always maintained some political peace...now who's going to follow him? evbdy knows irsael has a big firepower...if they want they'll crush all of it if they see it's totally uncoordenate
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by sock on 11-12-2004 at 05:46 PM
quote:You could be right, I don't know much about him historically (although I doubt a man like him could ever deserve a Nobel prize). I was talking about the recent years though, when things were escalating.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I don't believe that is totaly correct though.
quote:Of course not, but would anyone blow himself up or put his family's well being at risk for a non-crucial piece of land, if it weren't for religion? It's an excuse for psychological things, but it IS an ultimate excuse.
Originally posted by Omar
the coran doesnt say "Go out and blow yourself up", neither the torah gives out specific coordinates where the state of israel should be...
quote:Because God said the land of Israel belongs to the Israelites or some b/s like that.
Originally posted by Sunshine
* Sunshine wonders why religion makes ppl want a certain piece of land...
LOL @ Fukafly's post.
quote:It's "Israelis" (Israelites is a biblical term). And I can't see how Arafat could maintain a "political peace", seeing as there was none (and as he supports terrorists).
Originally posted by johny
i'm on the palestinian side...but this death will only bring more strength to the israelites(is this the word?)...arafat always maintained some political peace...now who's going to follow him? evbdy knows irsael has a big firepower...if they want they'll crush all of it if they see it's totally uncoordenate
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Jhrono on 11-12-2004 at 07:29 PM
it's not peace by the meaning of the word...it s + like...stablity...who's going to keep the regime(is this the word?) from falling down?...i've said it and i'll repeat it...when Israel wants, KABOOOM (parental advisory content explicit word)...oh btw..in portuguese is israelitas...
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Omar on 11-12-2004 at 07:48 PM
I think Arafat's death will mean a bloodshed (sp?) from the different groups within the PLO....
I dont know exact facts, but i guess at least 2 or 3 fellows want the position of Head of the Palestinian movement....
And johny...the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them... (thats the gods honest truth)...
I wonder what will happen if China decides to back the palestinians....*shrugs*
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by CookieRevised on 11-13-2004 at 08:42 AM
quote:The whole concept of religion is believing. Believing means: knowing something is true without seeing rock solid proof. Otherwise you shift to science. Which is the opposit of religion... Humans can believe whatever they want, and everybody fills in the gaps like they think it has happened, hence there are many different religions.
Originally posted by traxor
all I need to see is one bit of proof, that God is real, and that proof is definitely NOT the bible
Religion is not about "proof" at all...
quote:Might interest you: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/arafat.html
Originally posted by sock
You could be right, I don't know much about him historically (although I doubt a man like him could ever deserve a Nobel prize).
quote:Yep indeed, after the Camp David treaty (which Arafat refused to sign) things got worse again. But it is not only Arafat's fault though.
Originally posted by sock
I was talking about the recent years though, when things were escalating.
quote:yep... Bush and Blair have always supported Israel, no matter what. (This is, btw, again the opposite of what Europe wants; Europe wanted to negotiate with both parties as equals). Even in the Mid-East itself, Palestinia and Arrafat where seen as a independant state and leader and Arafat was treated like that. Only Bush, Blair and Sharon didn't acknowledged him as that (aka: as equals), making the whole peace-process much much more difficult.
Originally posted by Omar
And johny...the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them... (thats the gods honest truth)...
Putting aside if someone is a bad person or not, if you don't treat such person as equal (aka: respect him for what he does and believes), how are you going to negotiate with him? Imagine someone ordering you around while saying: "You're the lowest scum in the world and you'll do what we say. Now sign this." Even if the treaty was a good treaty, you will be reluctant to sign it.
Btw, in the long run (few years) there will be a decent peace-treaty. Not because the big bad guy who refused everything, Arafat, is dead. But because the dead of Arafat means that there is nothing to blame anymore for the treaty to fail. Bush knows this also, and thus will do his uppermost best to make this work. Otherwise, if it fails, he (and Sharon) will loose massive, and I mean massive, support from their people and even the world.
Why do you think that Israel now hopes for a less strong leadership in Palestinia?
But before the peace will return, there will be some hard militair actions from extremists who see Arafat as a martyr, though.
And you'll see that once the treaty is passed, that Bush (and Sharon) will say that it worked now because the big bad leader Arafat isn't here anymore. Well, it would have worked in the past also if Sharon had put some water to the wine also.
Anyways, personaly I'm not pro-Arafat or pro-Sharon. Both are equaly bad and both did also good things. They both are as stuburn as a stone. Now that one stone is away, we can only hope for the better...
RE: Yasser Arafat dead by Jhrono on 11-13-2004 at 08:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Omar
the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them
quote:...what if think like this?...what if it is a question of pride...'cause that land was offered to them after the ww2...you can't counter-say a measure taken by your country...it'd be a shame for e.g. bush...his popularity would
Originally posted by CookieRevised
yep... Bush and Blair have always supported Israel, no matter what
...(stupid theory but has i'm prideful[is this the word?] i can also see it that way...)