Another possible idea for sponsor program - Printable Version
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Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 02:53 PM
I was installing the Beta of Messenger Plus! and I noticed that at the beginning, it has a 'Beta Warning'. As soon as I saw that, I thought that it would be a great idea if something like that could happen when the sponsor program screen comes up, so people can't hammer the next button, choose some random option then keep hammering next. It would really force them to pay attention, and if they click ok to exit it by accident, chances are they'll read the sponsor program screen, and choose not to install it.
I personally think it would be great if it could be done 
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by s7a5 on 11-22-2004 at 03:24 PM
how about if Patchou removes the sponsor completelly?
nice solution eh..??
God Im genious 
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by .Roy on 11-22-2004 at 03:48 PM
lol leave patchou alone.. The sponsor is great as is! We dont need to find other ways to make Patchou even Poorer.. Sigh
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Vilkku on 11-22-2004 at 03:54 PM
The point is not to make users afraid and not install it, ohterwise he could just remove the sponsor. He want's the people realize it's there so that they know that It's Optional™, not stop them from installing it.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 04:51 PM
Lol I like the ™ on 'optional', Vilkku ^_^
Well, he could at least change the sponsor to a different one. I'm just sick of people complaining about Messenger Plus' so called 'spyware', and how they ran Spybot or Ad-Aware and can no longer remove it. At least something that's a bit easier to uninstall would be nice.
Or people could just start reading the installation screens... but I have a feeling not many people are gonna do that
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Plik on 11-22-2004 at 05:27 PM
If you search around you will find patchou posting the rough amount of people who install MsgPlus a day
I think its something in the thousands
Then see how many complaint we get here a day
Its not that many, theres no point making patchou lose money for just a few angy people that dont read
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by _Humphreys on 11-22-2004 at 06:28 PM
quote:
how about if Patchou removes the sponsor completelly?
nice solution eh..??
God Im genious
distorted why can't you leave Patchou alone? He needs to make a living like we all do! It's people's own stupid fault for installing plus! with the sponsor anyways.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Anubis on 11-22-2004 at 06:34 PM
I don't know if anyone has ever noticed that when you install something from themexp.org it often contains up to 3 pieces of optional to install adware that are already ticked and ready for morons to click next...now Plus! has no option already checked, therefore if they click next (which now has a delay timer to stop you hitting next when installing). Now Patchou has done all he can do without removing the sponsor program...or find an alternative to the sponsor program. So I think any more addictions to alert you to the sponsor program are useless, all anyone wants now is an alternative to the sponsor program.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by _Humphreys on 11-22-2004 at 06:41 PM
quote:
I don't know if anyone has ever noticed that when you install something from themexp.org it often contains up to 3 pieces of optional to install adware that are already ticked and ready for morons to click next...now Plus! has no option already checked, therefore if they click next (which now has a delay timer to stop you hitting next when installing). Now Patchou has done all he can do without removing the sponsor program...or find an alternative to the sponsor program. So I think any more addictions to alert you to the sponsor program are useless, all anyone wants now is an alternative to the sponsor program.
Also has anyone noticed the checked box on the msn messenger setup which installs an msn toolbar? So think is the MSG Plus! sponsor that bad? It's also really easy to get rid of it unlike other sponsor programs.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 06:59 PM
Well, OK, I guess you guys are right. Patchou needs to make a living somehow, just like all of us. Just... damn people not reading! >_<
Ah well
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Patchou on 11-22-2004 at 07:18 PM
Adding an a dditional MessageBox won't change anything to the complinas... if you consider all the warnings and "anti-click next" protections that are already in place, you'll see that adding more would probably notchange the number of users who install the sponsor by error. I'm still working on some little adjustements for version 3.40 though so that even less people complain .
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 10:24 PM
Lol I didn't even notice the 'anti-click next' thing until you mentioned it. So, if I, a normal user, didn't even notice it, how could it prevent much at all?
But oh well, your program, your rules, your way
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by CookieRevised on 11-22-2004 at 11:02 PM
quote:That isn't realy there to be noticed, that is there so users can't keep clicking "next" without moving the mouse and ramming on their mousebutton.
Originally posted by Caboose
Lol I didn't even notice the 'anti-click next' thing until you mentioned it. So, if I, a normal user, didn't even notice it, how could it prevent much at all?
EDIT: but the delay may be much longer IMHO (3secs?)....
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 11:06 PM
Well, even so, I still don't ultimately see a purpose for it.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by CookieRevised on 11-22-2004 at 11:12 PM
quote:I just explained it why it is there.
Originally posted by Caboose
I still don't ultimately see a purpose for it.
because it prevents user from constantly clicking with their mousebutton on "next" to skip all the important must-read-first text.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-22-2004 at 11:17 PM
Well, it doesn't really help a WHOLE lot. The 'Next' button isn't disabled long enough to allow the user to realize that it has to be read. If it was disabled a bit longer, that would help imo.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Patchou on 11-23-2004 at 01:13 AM
Well, the problemis that if the delay is too long, the user will wonder why he can't proceed with the installation and risks to start messing up with what's on screen in hope that it will unlock the Next button (like the default installation path). The delay as it is now is good for the purpose intended: prevent users to click Next repetitively without checking anything on screen (the delay will be extended a little in version 3.40 though ).
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Caboose on 11-23-2004 at 01:15 AM
Haha I never thought of someone screwing around with it to try and get it to work... that would be pretty funny to see
Anyway, I think it's good that you're extending it a bit
quote:Hhmm... something is effed up here lol
Originally posted by Messenger Plus! Readme
Since version 2.00, Messenger Plus! has become my full time job and I will keep spending all my time in its development as long as you, my users, will continue to enjoy the result.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by L. Coyote on 11-23-2004 at 04:29 AM
I agree that there must be a sponsor program.
But I don't agree that it should keep being this one. For starters, couldn't it be a toolbar from Google, Amazon, eBay or something known?
That way, you can have links to bids, products, some remote options for MsgPlus!, like links to the MsgPlus.net site, the forum, an update checker, and you could use the affilliate programs of the sites I listed before.
I dunno, it's an idea. I mean, make it more... on-topic (with what you distribute, that is, which is MsgPlus!).
I still dunno how to program toolbars, or else I could do it myself.
Cheers!
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by gnownoskcid on 11-23-2004 at 05:01 AM
quote:I agree on that one, lop.com has a bad name and i'm too afraid to install it from the bad comments i've heard
Originally posted by UglyBoy
I agree that there must be a sponsor program.
But I don't agree that it should keep being this one. For starters, couldn't it be a toolbar from Google, Amazon, eBay or something known?
That way, you can have links to bids, products, some remote options for MsgPlus!, like links to the MsgPlus.net site, the forum, an update checker, and you could use the affilliate programs of the sites I listed before.
I dunno, it's an idea. I mean, make it more... on-topic (with what you distribute, that is, which is MsgPlus!).
I still dunno how to program toolbars, or else I could do it myself.
Cheers!
I wouldn't mind installing and keeping a sponsor program that doesn't have dozens of popups everytime you go online and doesn't hog all the system resources
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by FrozernFire on 11-23-2004 at 04:44 PM
but to get another sponsor, the other party must agree. and i think c2media is already hosting msgplus.net. it's not easy to make a switchover. and great that the delay for the next button will be extended. last time even before i could guess what the page was all about, the delay was over.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by user27089 on 11-23-2004 at 04:49 PM
How about rite people shut up. 
. Not to be rude or anything, Patchou makes this program on his own accord, he's not payed! He gets around 2cents for everytime the sponsor is installed, let him do what he wants, he doesn't need to make this, he doesn't need to have this forum does he?? He could just put his own ideas into it and not take any advice from anyone else.. but he doesn't, please just leave it be, the screen on the installation is done, it looks good.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by L. Coyote on 11-23-2004 at 05:03 PM
traxor-
Hey, when did I say he HAS to do what I suggested? 
Hope it wasn't directed at me. I'm just saying that those affiliate programs pay MORE and are SAFER (that way MORE people WILL INSTALL it).
I'm actually giving an idea so that Patchou earns more and not the other way around.
So don't shut me up.
----------
FrozenFire -
Those affiliate programs don't care where you put their links, they're created to be used by anyone and in any way. He can always take a few minutes to read the TOS.
FireFox, for example, has the Google search box with its affiliate name on it. So it CAN be done (and Google pays a lot more and it's more useful than c2media).
About c2media hosting MsgPlus!, then he could keep this sponsor but add the other one too.
Then again, if this suggestion is taken so bad by others, I can always shut up. 
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by _Humphreys on 11-23-2004 at 08:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by : gnownoskcid
I agree on that one, lop.com has a bad name and i'm too afraid to install it from the bad comments i've heard
I wouldn't mind installing and keeping a sponsor program that doesn't have dozens of popups everytime you go online and doesn't hog all the system resources
You don't need to keep the toolbar installed for Patchou to gain money
you only need to install it.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by user27089 on 11-23-2004 at 09:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by UglyBoy
traxor-
Hey, when did I say he HAS to do what I suggested?
Hope it wasn't directed at me. I'm just saying that those affiliate programs pay MORE and are SAFER (that way MORE people WILL INSTALL it).
I'm actually giving an idea so that Patchou earns more and not the other way around.
So don't shut me up.
I'm sorry if I offended you at all, of course it wasn't directed at you, I was talking about people in a whole. I'm merely suggesting that with the new sponsor installation page, that people will just give it a rest for once, the new page isn't as mis-leading as it used to be, and the numbers of complaints have decreased, and afaik, Patchou is happy with the results.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by CookieRevised on 11-23-2004 at 09:12 PM
quote:no, he gets x cents everytime the searchbar is used.
Originally posted by traxor
He gets around 2cents for everytime the sponsor is installed
quote:How do you know that? I'm not so certain of it btw, otherwise Patchou would already have changed it.
Originally posted by UglyBoy
I'm just saying that those affiliate programs pay MORE and are SAFER (that way MORE people WILL INSTALL it).
quote:They do care about were the links are, or if there are links at all. That's how they (and you) make money. They would pay more or less depending on the type of package you give to your users.
Originally posted by UglyBoy
Those affiliate programs don't care where you put their links, they're created to be used by anyone and in any way. He can always take a few minutes to read the TOS.
quote:Again, who says so?
Originally posted by UglyBoy
and Google pays a lot more and it's more useful than c2media.
quote:That wouldn't be "solving" the "problem", but more adding to the "problem".
Originally posted by UglyBoy
About c2media hosting MsgPlus!, then he could keep this sponsor but add the other one too.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by L. Coyote on 11-23-2004 at 09:40 PM
I know because I use Google AdSense, MercadoLibre (which is a Latin American partner of eBay), and Amazon.
The money you earn per click in Google AdSense is bigger than many other click-based affiliate programs. As I said before, I've seen Firefox use this, as well as in Blogger.com.
The advantage of using this is that it doesn't have pop-ups.
And I said, anyone can read the TOS and see if a toolbar is allowed.
In the eBay partner affiliate program we are allowed to create toolbars, for example. As long as you make money (so that they make money too), they accept almost anything.
Again, it's a suggestion for Patchou. Sorry if it offends anyone else. But I rather hear/read from him that the idea is useless.
Thanks.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by _Humphreys on 11-23-2004 at 09:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by : CookieRevised
quote : Originally posted by traxor
He gets around 2cents for everytime the sponsor is installed
no, he gets x cents everytime the searchbar is used.
quote:
Originally posted by : Attitude Extreme
You don't need to keep the toolbar installed for Patchou to gain money you only need to install it.
Really you have to use it? I thought it was just for installing it. Patchou musn't get much money due to rep of lop.com and the fact that n00bs are bothered by this stuff they think it's spyware and viruses, most of them anyways.
Edit : I am going to install the toolbar and use it a bit for Patchou!
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by KillQuilty on 12-22-2004 at 03:07 AM
Try this hack:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options\Dvd Amen.exe]
"Debugger"="\"\""
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options\DVDAME~1.EXE]
"Debugger"="\"\""
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options\Phone Poll.exe]
"Debugger"="\"\""
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options\PHONEP~1.EXE]
"Debugger"="\"\""
RE: RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by frankbuzin on 12-23-2004 at 06:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by : Attitude Extreme
...and the fact that n00bs are bothered by this stuff they think it's spyware and viruses, most of them anyways.
Well I came here to check out this addin after my OfficeScan AV server lit up this morning from more than a few users (some of our developer and designer types have admin rights on their PCs) installed a v3.4 beta build of Messenger Plus! (they are running MSN v7 beta). All of them had "Soap View.exe" ID'ed as having TROJ_SWIZZOR.R. This along with the mysearchnow toolbar install and the creation of the desktop shortcuts, has placed this site on our blocked list. I think another revenue model is needed to keep us corp weenies from being forced to block this site.
I just tested the beta install myself and there is a prompt to NOT install the sponsor stuff, but it looks too much like a "EULA" type prompt for someone pounding through the install. Even tho there may have been a few that actually read these dialogs and thought it a "good idea" to support the program, none were aware that they would be ultimately getting their AV client to email me.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by CookieRevised on 12-23-2004 at 08:56 PM
quote:First of all, even legal notices and EULA's are meant to be read. Second of all, you even don't need to read the actual EULA to know that it is about a additional sponsor program. Also, the current installation screens look nothing like "other 'regular' legal notices". The current screens are very clear that it is about a sponsor or at least "something" different then a normal standard EULA from the program itself...
Originally posted by frankbuzin
I just tested the beta install myself and there is a prompt to NOT install the sponsor stuff, but it looks too much like a "EULA" type prompt for someone pounding through the install. Even tho there may have been a few that actually read these dialogs and thought it a "good idea" to support the program, none were aware that they would be ultimately getting their AV client to email me.
quote:Use a good antivirus program then. Sorry, although I understand the concearns, but there is no virus what-so-ever in the sponsor and certainly not in Messenger Plus! itself. That some AV's detect the Swizzor Trojan is something they should fix (in including a proper and more detailed scanning method), not the sponsor.
Originally posted by frankbuzin
(...) OfficeScan AV (...) none were aware that they would be ultimately getting their AV client to email me.
RE: RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by frankbuzin on 12-23-2004 at 10:55 PM
quote:Wow isn't that just a revelation. To think words would be written with the intention of them actually being read. Wow. Thank you again for your great insite. The point is that people just don't do it. So if something "unusual" is going to happen you pretty much need to smack most people in the face with it.
First of all, even legal notices and EULA's are meant to be read.
quote:Trend OfficeScan is one of the best... And considering the fact that most AV software now includes adware/spyware/malware detection (although most don't compare to utils dedicate to such tasks) to there list of things to scan for, it is not too likely a false positive in such a sense/catagory. And since our German parent company decides such things it is a mute point for us anyway.
Use a good antivirus program then.
I posted my message to add some feedback as to why the creator of this addin may want to consider changing his way of making money. I work for a fortune 100 company with nearly 10,000 users. Not too many of them do a good job of reading it seems. Luckily few have admin rights. Of course I posted before reading enough other posts to see that yall are a bunch of idiots that will defend the loss of a limb for dumb stuff like this.
Next time I will just block crap like this and be done with it. I see posting is a complete waste of time.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by L. Coyote on 12-23-2004 at 11:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by frankbuzin
Of course I posted before reading enough other posts to see that yall are a bunch of idiots that will defend the loss of a limb for dumb stuff like this.
Next time I will just block crap like this and be done with it. I see posting is a complete waste of time.
I don't see why you must be aggressive.
While any input is welcome, be aware that anti-virus sometimes detect things that are not virus/spyware/adware.
If it really had a virus those who like MP! would say so, but the fact is that MP! and its sponsor do not have virus.
RE: RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by frankbuzin on 12-23-2004 at 11:35 PM
quote:Hmmm might have a little to do with the pompous, condescending reply of CookieRevised. I had good intentions when I came here today, but I give what I get when it comes to people like that.
Originally posted by UglyBoy
I don't see why you must be aggressive.
quote:
Originally posted by UglyBoy
be aware that anti-virus sometimes detect things that are not virus/spyware/adware.
As someone who manages AV for thousands of PCs I am aware of false-positives. That is not the issue here. I made my suggestion and gave good reason for it. The viability of such an addin being allowed in a corp environment is already low. Add "sponsor" stuff like this and it has 0 chance.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by Plik on 12-23-2004 at 11:48 PM
With out the sponsor program patchou would be forced to find anouther means of making money.
Which would ultimatly lead to him spending less time on messenger plus.
Patchou has also spend lots of time fine tuning the sponsor program to his wishes.
The sponsor is a lot easyer to uninstall than most.
The agreement is clear with out scaring users off.
Yes some people will click through with out reading it, but there is a minimal amount of complaints about it, compared to the amount of installs.
Some AV's detect it falsly as a trojan. But this doesnt mean it does damage like one.
It is very simple to uninstall the sponsor as long as you dont cripple it with a removal tool.
In your situation the best thing you can do is mail all your clients who installed it with a link to this thread - http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=21598
That has instructions on the removal of the sponsor.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by frankbuzin on 12-23-2004 at 11:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by madman66
In your situation the best thing you can do is mail all your clients who installed it with a link to this thread - http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=21598
That has instructions on the removal of the sponsor.
Thank you, but I don't belive that would be sufficient for my monthly report on illegal software (by our companies standards), the alarms this little addin has set off, and how it was addressed (neither would be any mention of me actually posting in this forum hehehe). Unfortunately it has gotten itself on the radar and it will not be allowed in our environment. My suggestions were more to curb this problem for others.
RE: Another possible idea for sponsor program by FrozernFire on 12-24-2004 at 07:42 AM
the sponsor has no virus or spyware, just that to some people, there is no difference between adware and spyware. the "alarms" set off might be by some other program, or that your anti virus program has got it wrong. those people who has problems with the sponsor can uninstall it with EXCELLENT instructions on how to do it. seriously, some people are just too paranoid because they were not careful in the first place.