Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... - Printable Version
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Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by alexp2_ad on 01-03-2005 at 07:26 PM
Anybody seen this on Neowin???
![[Image: messengerplus.PNG]](http://www.neowin.net/staff/creamhackered/atlanta/messengerplus.PNG)
Ouch... that's nasty, and I thought microsoft were being nice to Patchou now...
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by SlyDawg on 01-03-2005 at 07:29 PM
Isn't that true it does install spyware if you dont check the box when you install it? i maybe wrong, well its very likely that i have made a mistake
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Plik on 01-03-2005 at 07:32 PM
That threat levels stupidly high.
The adware isnt even a threat because you chose to install it.
And it isnt spyware.
And the adwares on of the lest damaging adware programs there is 
I would have thought microsoft would have know better but......
* Plik slaps the fools at redmond around a bit with a large trout.
microsoft
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by alexp2_ad on 01-03-2005 at 07:34 PM
There is no point in it detecting messenger plus, if messenger plus is there without the adware then the person had the sense to read when installing and if it's there with the adware then it should detect the adware not messenger plus...
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Fraisie on 01-03-2005 at 07:36 PM
The default action is ignore... I'll contact Microsoft and ask them about the problem.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Anubis on 01-03-2005 at 07:56 PM
I don't understand how this has a high level of danger. MS said that their threat level for the worst type of spyware was medium; there surely is something more to this
But it's just a BETA, they want feedback, as long as they know that their information isn't fully true, they will (hopefully) change it.
From what I've heard about this software it should be able (if they configure it correctly) to perform intelligent options to get rid of spyware\adware, so hopefully when it's out it may remove the sponsor program by uninstalling Messenger Plus and then telling people to reinstall it without accepting the sponsor...
However, when this software is around it will probably automatically (when real time protection is enabled) make it difficult to install Plus with the sponsor program. Now many programs like ad-watch already do this, but not everyone has them, eventually MS will make it so the majority of computer users get this software on their computer (it will be harder to keep it off than on), so my main concern about this is that no one will be able to install the sponsor and Patchou's income will suffer as a consequence.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Menthix on 01-03-2005 at 08:29 PM
I would like to suggest a couple of correction, based on the screenshot posted.
quote:Threat Level: Low (or at least Medium, if Plus! OPTIONAL sponsor is already high, how will they rate cool web search? "Ultra Insane Maximal" ?
Threat Level: High
quote:You can OPTIONALLY choose to install an adware...
Messenger Plus! installs an OPTIONAL adware...
quote:...called lop.com which is developed by C2Media.
...called C2Media which is also known as LOP.com.
quote:However, it does install other adware programs when you allow it...
However, it does install other adware programs...
quote:...as well as it can preform hazardous actions... (Microsoft: define hazardous)
...as well as preform hazardous actions...
quote:In either case you should pay attention when installeing this software. It's optional, remember?
In either case this software is not to be trusted.
Other then that i wonder what kind of action Microsoft's software will take against Plus? Default setting is ignore, meaning that it will leave everything alone? That's ok, but what are the other options? I fear destructing Messenger Plus! itself and leaving the sponsor on the pc
. Like said before, not Messenger Plus! should be targeted, but the sponsor itself. Although appopriate action against the sponsor will be launching the Messenger Plus! uninstaller.Besides that, doesn't the Verisign license mean something to this? It shows that the Plus! installer can be trusted according to Verisign right? I don't know a lot about the Verisign licenses, but Microsoft use them too so it must have some meaning to them
. Anyway, Patchou should contact Microsoft.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by surfichris on 01-03-2005 at 08:37 PM
Aye, this is a Microsoft strikes back issue if you want. Everytime they develop something where coincidently Plus! can't hook it, Patchou comes along (with wtbw too) and they figure out a way. Plus can't do anything about it being listed in the spyware application.
I would personally hold that MVP who holds it ever so dearly to her heart that Plus! is just spyware/adware and has a few pages against Patchou/Plus.
It would be nice of Microsoft, right now I just think they're selfish pigs and hypocrites () if they didn't detect Messenger Plus!, but only detected Lop if it was installed. It's not that hard, and would make more sense.
quote:
Thread level: High
Without he adware there is no threat!
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by segosa on 01-03-2005 at 09:45 PM
* segosa pops into the thread
This isn't Microsoft's fault. They bought the program from GIANT. MsgPlus' rating/etc was all decided by GIANT. Microsoft haven't changed much in the app, yet.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by CookieRevised on 01-03-2005 at 09:49 PM
There is indeed something fishy going on... Those descriptions sounded very familiar to me, and after a quick search I found out that the descriptions and all come from software like GIANT Anti-Spyware and from other non-microsoft webpages (which of course some people have big influences on those kind of pages)...
So, now even MS is using those not-entirly-correct (some even wrong) definitions just because those people shout the loudest on their forums or do they simply blindly take over the company without correcting things (MS bought Giant Company Software recently)?
EDIT: hehehe, while I was writing this, Segosa already gave it away 
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-03-2005 at 09:54 PM
As Segosa mentionned, Microsoft just bought the software from Giant, the one and only company to my knowledge that was detecting Plus! as dangerous (pff...). At least, the default action is Ignore.
I thank you for your support and encourage you to forward your thoughts to Microsoft directly. Let's hope the entry will be removed in the next beta (but for that, we need to talk to Microsoft and I already started the discussion today in fact).
RE: RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by alexp2_ad on 01-03-2005 at 10:20 PM
quote:You go patchou...
Originally posted by Patchou
As Segosa mentionned, Microsoft just bought the software from Giant, the one and only company to my knowledge that was detecting Plus! as dangerous (pff...). At least, the default action is Ignore.
I thank you for your support and encourage you to forward your thoughts to Microsoft directly. Let's hope the entry will be removed in the next beta (but for that, we need to talk to Microsoft and I already started the discussion today in fact).
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Menthix on 01-03-2005 at 10:20 PM
quote:If you could tell us the right way to contact Microsoft about this. Microsoft has such many contact adresses, how will i know my feedback end up with the right people?
Originally posted by Patchou
encourage you to forward your thoughts to Microsoft directly.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by user27089 on 01-03-2005 at 10:22 PM
I'm willing to send a formal email to Microsoft expressing the facts about the Messenger plus! adware, if we can get the sufficient email address and any peramaters that you want us to be within in the email.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Guido on 01-04-2005 at 04:34 AM
quote:That's what this thread's about
Originally posted by eckocomplex
Neowin has an exclusive on Microsoft's new anti-spyware program. They have given a screenshot of it detecting Messenger Plus! and make some fairly harsh calls (altho they do outline the OPTIONAL).
Indeed, as many say, it's not MS' fault, but GIANT's fault.
BTW, since it lists Messenger Plus and not the actual adware, I wonder if it detects THE ADWARE or if it shouts at the presence of Msgplus even if the sponsor hasn't been installed?
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by -dt- on 01-04-2005 at 04:40 AM
I hope it gets changed to only detect if LOP is installed like what surfi said , otherwise alot of people will downlaod it and think just because m$ says its spyware it is
ps where threads merged or something because a second ago ecko_complex had his own thread.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by eckocomplex on 01-04-2005 at 05:09 AM
quote:Yeah, sorry I didn't see this thead x_x.
ps where threads merged or something because a second ago ecko_complex had his own thread.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-04-2005 at 11:50 AM
I just did a test: Plus! is detected even without the sponsor installed and all the files are listed as potentially dangerous, which includes the readme and the various translations lol... lets hope Microsoft will fix this mess.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by TheBlasphemer on 01-04-2005 at 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
I just did a test: Plus! is detected even without the sponsor installed and all the files are listed as potentially dangerous, which includes the readme and the various translations lol... lets hope Microsoft will fix this mess.
The README file
?ROFL! If they're gonna say that jpg files are dangerous, I can understand that now...
but txt files with buffer overflows or other dangerous things
?ROFL ROFL ROFL
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by ~INVASION~ on 01-04-2005 at 11:58 AM
hey where did u get that program i would like to try it out
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Phrive on 01-04-2005 at 12:21 PM
Is there a link 2 download it?
Or is it private
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Menthix on 01-04-2005 at 12:21 PM
I guess Patchou can download the beta from a restricted site, because he is a Microsoft MVP.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Sam Spade on 01-04-2005 at 12:40 PM
quote:It says Messenger Plus is an Adware Bundler which is true.
Originally posted by alexp2_ad
Anybody seen this on Neowin???
Ouch... that's nasty, and I thought microsoft were being nice to Patchou now...
It says that the Sponsor is OPTIONAL. This is also true.
It does NOT say that Messenger Plus is spyware.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-04-2005 at 01:05 PM
Well, it also says that the software performs hazardous actions one your computer and that it should not be trusted, which is wrong and attacks Messenger Plus! for no reason. If the default action is Ignore, why should it even be detected in the first place?
As for testing the software, I just downloaded the Giant Antispyware trial version on some download site.
RE: RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by alexp2_ad on 01-04-2005 at 01:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Spade
quote:It says Messenger Plus is an Adware Bundler which is true.
Originally posted by alexp2_ad
Anybody seen this on Neowin???
Ouch... that's nasty, and I thought microsoft were being nice to Patchou now...
It says that the Sponsor is OPTIONAL. This is also true.
It does NOT say that Messenger Plus is spyware.
It says messenger plus on it's own, after installation is of a high threat level... surely that's a little harsh???
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Sam Spade on 01-04-2005 at 02:43 PM
quote:I think you will find it says the same thing about all adware bundlers.
Originally posted by alexp2_ad
It says messenger plus on it's own, after installation is of a high threat level... surely that's a little harsh???
quote:Patchou, I can understand that for you (and many here) this is personal. But the reality of life is that the act of encouraging a user to install adware is considered by the vast majority to be hazardous behaviour on the part of who or whatever is doing the encouraging. And let's be honest, your install screens strongly discourage refusal of the sponsor program ("I refuse to support...").
Originally posted by Patchou
Well, it also says that the software performs hazardous actions one your computer and that it should not be trusted, which is wrong
Also, the MP Sponsor Program EULA says, among other things, that "C2 may from time to time, either automatically or through other means, distribute an update to the Software and/or may replace the Software with new versions, and may also modify the Software". This is an open invitation to C2Media to change their software at any time, in any way they want with no restriction being placed on what changes may be made.
We all know that you have said, many times, that you only want what is best for your users, but in the end the EULA states what C2Media can do and you, Patchou, have said that all you can do is make suggestions. Just one example is your Getthefacts wherein you said: "I have absolutely no share whatsoever in this company and what they do with their software does not concern me directly. I make suggestions, we talk about things but that's where it ends."
I do not want to see anybody stuck with one of the 'bad' versions of lop.com, and nothing in the EULA or on this site reassures me that this can not happen. Therefore, installing the Sponsor Program is hazardous, and by extension the act of offering the Sponsor Program is hazardous.
quote:No reason? I disagree. Please see above.
Originally posted by Patchou
and attacks Messenger Plus! for no reason. If the default action is Ignore, why should it even be detected in the first place?
As for 'why should it even be detected'... it should be detected because MP BUNDLES ADWARE. That you don't want MP to be labelled an an adware bundler, don't bundle adware. If you don't want MP to be accused of hazardous behaviour don't lay a guilt trip on users when offering adware and tighten up the EULA so that the sponsor program cannot be changed at any time, in any way, with no restriction on what changes can be made.
quote:Which site was that? I'm sure that you'd only use a legitimate download site, and there are many in this forum that would love to have a look for themselves so please share.
Originally posted by Patchoui
As for testing the software, I just downloaded the Giant Antispyware trial version on some download site.
In the alternative, perhaps you will post the *entire* Giant detection screen, including all text, not just the top portion snippet that has been displayed so far.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by FrozernFire on 01-04-2005 at 03:14 PM
Actually, i installed the MP! version of c2media before but then uninstalled it because my dad didn't like it. the most is a toolbar and change in homepage(oh yes, it's hazardous 
). like what others said, if this is labelled as security lvl high, you should really see other bundled adware. it's much worst
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-04-2005 at 03:36 PM
I just googled Giant and I foudn a site with the trial version is 2 minutes.
I understand what you're saying about the license, however, you would find the same clauses (if not more harsh) in any other license. The fact is that any software installed on your computer can decide to download and execute whatever it wants, C2Media's package is no different. The only thing you can do is trust the distributor, and in this case, its me. Categorizing softwares as "possibly dangerous" is too easy and prone to errors and unjustified diffamation.
With that kind of logic, I could consider Java as being potentially dangerous and make your system slower (which, in my opinion, it does) and ask my 7 million users at the next auto-update if they want to remove it from their system... this is completely deloyal and this kind of thing is starting to take some epic proportions. I'm not fighting so much for Messenger Plus! here, more for the idea that nowadays, any software that accuses another one of misconduct is automatically taken as a savior and the information it gives as a solid fact. This just frightens me for the future of software and the spirit of "free competition" if I may say.
RE: RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Guido on 01-04-2005 at 03:52 PM
quote:Well, the GIANT Anti-Spyware free trial was available in many download sites before MS bought GIANT, and many sites haven't been updated removing the download yet. It's completely "legitimate", it's a free trial version, not the internal testing version MS is distributing. Both detect Msgplus as spyware.
Originally posted by Sam Spade
Which site was that? I'm sure that you'd only use a legitimate download site, and there are many in this forum that would love to have a look for themselves so please share.
I think it's a misbehaviour by GIANT, not only in this case but in every optional bundler case. It should search for actual Adware/Spyware, not for software that could have installed adware/spyware if the user had agreed to it. The latter is probably easier to do, but it makes the product a nicely designed robotic and random add/remove programs script instead of an adware and spyware scanner/remover.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Menthix on 01-04-2005 at 07:14 PM
quote:True, but unlike most adware bundled programs, the adware bundle in Messenger Plus! is completely optional. If other programs have a optional adware bundle then those shouldn't be detected either. What they can do at the most is detect the Plus! installer as possibly harmfull and detect the sponsor itself. But don't detect Messenger Plus! itself as harmfull when it was installed without the sponsor., it just doesn't make sense at all.
Originally posted by Sam Spade
I think you will find it says the same thing about all adware bundlers.
quote:The full line is "I refuse to give my support, install Messenger Plus! without the sponsor". The last part crearly tells you that Messenger Plus! will still be installed, even when you refuse the license. I think "I refuse to give my support..." was also choosen becouse only "I refuse" and "I accept" will confuse people with regular EULA's. Software with a regular EULA like that won't install at all when you refuse. So confused people will just choose accept be default because they think the must. My point is that it's clear very well that Messenger Plus! will still work even when you refuse the spnsor.
Originally posted by Sam Spade
And let's be honest, your install screens strongly discourage refusal of the sponsor program ("I refuse to support...").
quote:I think the hazardous is a big word, but i see you point. Like i said before, the Plus! installer could be detected as possibly hazardous. And they are fully right to detect the sponsor. However, when you have installed Messenger Plus! without any bit of the sponsor, it will still be detected as a high risk. This is the part that doesn't make sense. You can't do anything from within Messenger Plus! to enable the sponsor. The only way is trough the installer. So Plus! in an installed state shouldn't be targeted, just the sponsor itself, if the want the Plus! installer.
Originally posted by Sam Spade
Therefore, installing the Sponsor Program is hazardous, and by extension the act of offering the Sponsor Program is hazardous.
quote:That's one of the biggest things i don't get Messenger Plus! itself has almost the highest rating it can gey, while it's one of the most harmless adware bundled programs out there.
Originally posted by FrozernFire
like what others said, if this is labelled as security lvl high, you should really see other bundled adware. it's much worst
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 07:37 PM
quote:
The fact is that any software installed on your computer can decide to download and execute whatever it wants, C2Media's package is no different.
This is simply NOT TRUE! Actually the opposite is true. The EULAs of most softwares don't have any such clauses allowing the software to download and execute whatever it wants.
I'm going to list some softwares installed on my computer NONE of which have a clause in their EULA stating that the software can decide to download and execute whatever it wants. Those packages don't even have a clause allowing them to update themselves without my consent.
Ad-Aware , Adobe Reader , BitTorrent, Ethereal, FlashFXP, foobar2000, Gaim, Microsoft Office, Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, Nero, PerfectDisk, Quicktime, Real Player, Gimp, WinRAR, WinSCP, WinPcap, Nmap, etc etc.
Again, none of these softwares have such language in their EULA. Your plain wrong when claiming any different. Prove it. Show the parts of the EULA of any of the above programs that state they can download and execute whatever they want.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by L. Coyote on 01-04-2005 at 07:37 PM
I hope they correct this before a final release. 
I installed the sponsor and nothing bad happened. My computer didn't explode, I didn't get a virus, and it's all working perfectly well. 
I agree with almost everyone here, when users see a notice from their antivirus about a software, they instantly want to get rid of it, and they stop trusting that software.
And knowing Microsoft, they'll do almost anything to get people to have their "awsome" antivirus program, which could mean lots of users getting the false notice about Messenger Plus!
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Plik on 01-04-2005 at 07:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tgnb
This is simply NOT TRUE! Actually the opposite is true. The EULAs of most softwares don't have any such clauses allowing the software to download and execute whatever it wants.
I'm going to list some softwares installed on my computer NONE of which have a clause in their EULA stating that the software can decide to download and execute whatever it wants. Those packages don't even have a clause allowing them to update themselves without my consent.
Ad-Aware , Adobe Reader , BitTorrent, Ethereal, FlashFXP, foobar2000, Gaim, Microsoft Office, Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, Nero, PerfectDisk, Quicktime, Real Player, Gimp, WinRAR, WinSCP, WinPcap, Nmap, etc etc.
Again, none of these softwares have such language in their EULA. Your plain wrong when claiming any different. Prove it. Show the parts of the EULA of any of the above programs that state they can download and execute whatever they want.
Erm that doesnt mean that they cant downloaded and execute what they want. Unless your firewall blocks them accessing the internet.
EULA's dont document every little thing the program does
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 08:22 PM
quote:
Erm that doesnt mean that they cant downloaded and execute what they want. Unless your firewall blocks them accessing the internet.
EULA's dont document every little thing the program does
What a program could hypothetically do illegally and what you agree to on the EULA are 2 completely different things. I responded to a post by Patchou where he claims that the licenses of ANY other software has similar clauses that make it legal for the software to download and execute whatever it wants. And THIS is simply not just untrue but completely misleading. The opposite is true. NO legitimate software I know of has such a clause in it. Again. Prove me wrong. Show me an example in any of the packages i listed above of such language. If the language isnt in the EULA then its illegal for the software to download and execute whatever it wants on my computer. If a company chooses to do illegally download and execute whatever it wants on user's computers this company wont be in business very long.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by zaidgs on 01-04-2005 at 09:08 PM
tgnb is correct, almost no EULA states that it may download and update itself.
still most softwares do claim that:
quote:
Originally posted by a microsoft EULA
IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR: LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, PERSONAL INJURY, LOSS OF PRIVACY, FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY
quote:these quotes are typical for most softwares,
Originally posted by another EULA
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS," "WITH ALL FAULTS," WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. LICENSOR, ITS SUPPLIERS AND DISTRIBUTOR DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF NON-INFRINGEMENT, TITLE, MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ANY WARRANTIES ARISING FROM COURSE OF DEALING, COURSE OF PERFORMANCE, OR USAGE OF TRADE.
so almost no software promises not to damage ur pc in the EULA!!!
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Plik on 01-04-2005 at 09:11 PM
The plus EULA doesnt either. It says that it may harm your pc (which it wont unless you distroy it with adaware and other programs like that)
And thats not plus, thats the sponsor a totaly different program.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by mad_onion on 01-04-2005 at 10:57 PM
im sure if enough people complain the changes will be made, but as many people have said this is GIANT's fault not Microsoft's.
also, if anyone is unclear as to when this software will be release public beta 1 of Microsoft Anti Spyware will be avaliable free of charge on Thursday. As the source for this thread is neowin I suggest you go there if you are interested in using the beta and find the link which will be on the main page occupanied by information on the release.
I hope find
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by tgnb on 01-05-2005 at 12:35 AM
quote:
so almost no software promises not to damage ur pc in the EULA!!!
That part of the EULA protects the developer/company from potential harm done to a customer's computer or data by use of the software. The part of the EULA we were discussing before deals with something completely different. The part of the EULA we are discussing is not about protecting the developer/company. The part we are disscussing is about giving the right to a developer/company to basically install anything they want onto your machine without any further consent from you.
I don't mind Microsoft telling me that they cant be held responsible if my business goes bankruppt because Windows blew up and i lost all my data.
But I do mind if an EULA wants to give the company the right to download and install anything on my computer in the future without restrictions.
Patchou says all EULA's are written to give this right, but this is wrong. In fact i can't think of any reputable and legitimate software that has language granting such rights in their EULA. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong.
By bundling adware that contains such language i feel it is well deserved for Messenger Plus to be categorized the way it is. I would be surprised if anyone at Microsoft would make a change to the way this adware in Messenger Plus is handled. Maybe however they can explain it to Patchou in a better way than those of us who have complaining about it in the past. That would be a huge step forward.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by FrozernFire on 01-05-2005 at 10:33 AM
Messenger Discovery's sponsor program's EULA actually gives it the right to download and install anything on your computer. EULAs are more for protecting the company itself from law suits, not to warn people about the program, since very little of them read the EULA
RE: RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Sam Spade on 01-05-2005 at 11:23 AM
quote:The EULA says a person must be at least 18 years of age, and the owner of the target computer, to be allowed to install the Sponsor.
Originally posted by FrozernFire
Actually, i installed the MP! version of c2media before but then uninstalled it because my dad didn't like it. the most is a toolbar and change in homepage(oh yes, it's hazardous
RE: RE: RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by FrozernFire on 01-05-2005 at 12:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Spade
quote:The EULA says a person must be at least 18 years of age, and the owner of the target computer, to be allowed to install the Sponsor.
Originally posted by FrozernFire
Actually, i installed the MP! version of c2media before but then uninstalled it because my dad didn't like it. the most is a toolbar and change in homepage(oh yes, it's hazardous
as long as i know what im doing (unlike some people), i don't care and i just noticed that it states that you have to be the owner of the target computer to install the sponsor. another defence against some people who wants to sue c2media
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Sam Spade on 01-05-2005 at 03:28 PM
quote:Tonight I have downloaded and installed several beta program updates (yes, legitimate updates as a registered beta tester), SnagIt 7.2, Deepnet Explorer, Acrobat Reader 7 and the latest version of my antivirus programme. None of these programmes have update clauses like C2Media's as part of their EULA. I'll keep searching the EULAs on my system to see if I can find anything equivalent to C2Media's EULA.
Originally posted by tgnb
This is simply NOT TRUE! Actually the opposite is true. The EULAs of most softwares don't have any such clauses allowing the software to download and execute whatever it wants.
I'm going to list some softwares installed on my computer NONE of which have a clause in their EULA stating that the software can decide to download and execute whatever it wants. Those packages don't even have a clause allowing them to update themselves without my consent.
Ad-Aware , Adobe Reader , BitTorrent, Ethereal, FlashFXP, foobar2000, Gaim, Microsoft Office, Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird, Nero, PerfectDisk, Quicktime, Real Player, Gimp, WinRAR, WinSCP, WinPcap, Nmap, etc etc.
Again, none of these softwares have such language in their EULA. Your plain wrong when claiming any different. Prove it. Show the parts of the EULA of any of the above programs that state they can download and execute whatever they want.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by zaidgs on 01-05-2005 at 04:20 PM
quote:I agree
Originally posted by tgnb
Patchou says all EULA's are written to give this right, but this is wrong. In fact i can't think of any reputable and legitimate software that has language granting such rights in their EULA.
quote:i dont think plus should be compared to messenger discovery, because messenger discovery doesnt even respect the user's decision not to install the sponsor (as it will install it even before the installation process is supposed to be started)
Originally posted by FrozernFire
Messenger Discovery's sponsor program's EULA actually gives it the right to download and install anything on your computer. EULAs are more for protecting the company itself from law suits, not to warn people about the program, since very little of them read the EULA
quote:i never read the plus's EULA but: patchou r they allowed to publish upgrades without your consent ?!
Originally posted by Patchou
The only thing you can do is trust the distributor, and in this case, its me.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Menthix on 01-05-2005 at 05:56 PM
quote:The EULA says that the will do unattended updates, you agree to the EULA when you install the sponsor. So C2Media does have your consent for this.
Originally posted by zaidgs
r they allowed to publish upgrades without your consent ?
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by CookieRevised on 01-05-2005 at 06:07 PM
However, they may not update their software to anything they like just like that. There are strict rules/limitations for the sponsor program by contract, made by Patchou and C2Media... eg: they have to stay within the bounderies of the bought package (so it will never be updated to the worst kind of spyware package that they also have), no adult popups, etc...
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by tgnb on 01-05-2005 at 06:47 PM
quote:
(so it will never be updated to the worst kind of spyware package that they also have), no adult popups, etc...
Well that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-05-2005 at 10:34 PM
Whatever you say won't change the fact that most software uses internet nowadays for many reasons, without mentionning it anywhere. And I iniston the fact that software licenses always look extremely bad when read completely. Anyway.... the fact remains: Plus! has nothing to do in the Giant Spyware sofware (the setup, why not, but not the software itself, it doesnt make any sense).
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by zaidgs on 01-05-2005 at 11:10 PM
quote:i am talking about patchou's consent (notice patchou's quote above it, he is the distributor not c2media, and that its upto him which upgrades are delivered to us)
Originally posted by MenthiX
The EULA says that the will do unattended updates, you agree to the EULA when you install the sponsor. So C2Media does have your consent for this.
thats the quote im talking bout:
quote:so back again: can they upgrade the software without patchou's consent?!?!
Originally posted by Patchou
The only thing you can do is trust the distributor, and in this case, its me.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by CookieRevised on 01-05-2005 at 11:19 PM
yes they can according to the EULA...
quote:^^ and that is where Patchou's consent comes in and the quote "trust the distributor"
However, they may not update their software to anything they like just like that. There are strict rules/limitations for the sponsor program by contract, made by Patchou and C2Media... eg: they have to stay within the bounderies of the bought package (so it will never be updated to the worst kind of spyware package that they also have), no adult popups, etc...
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-05-2005 at 11:39 PM
Yes they can, but if they do, the deal is off, is that clear enough now? . Doing business is more than following a license to the letter, so, once again, if you trust me, you don't have to wory about C2Media's actions. So far, they've always been extremely cooperative and understanding.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by matty on 01-06-2005 at 12:43 AM
I personally don't see why they wouldn't be so cooperative. They have a chance to add their software into one that is used by more then 4 million people world wide.
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by tgnb on 01-06-2005 at 02:23 AM
quote:
Doing business is more than following a license to the letter, so, once again, if you trust me, you don't have to wory about C2Media's actions.
Hundreds if not thousands of businesses sue each other each and every day. What makes you think your invulnerable? What about C2Media makes them trustworthy enough to hand over the trust of your users into their care? Your putting your customer's trust into the hands of a company that makes nasty spyware? But because you have a contract you think your immune? I'm sorry that you dont seem to understand how naive it is to think that. But hey, Its your program, you can do whatever you want
RE: Microsoft's Anti-spyware Software... by Patchou on 01-06-2005 at 02:38 AM
I just think you're searching too much tgnb. This discussion is pointeless as so far, C2Media's package has only improved month after month from the first day it was included in Plus!. Feel free to continue to think that you're more at risk with Messenger Plus! installed than with any other software, that's pure speculations. Thread closed.