scrub this - Printable Version
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+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: General (/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+---- Forum: Forum & Website (/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+----- Thread: scrub this (/showthread.php?tid=36411)
scrub this by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 12:32 PM
I dont know of any other online forum where posts critical of the people in charge get scrubbed clean like they do here 
Congrats!
RE: scrub this by -dt- on 01-04-2005 at 12:34 PM
errr what posts critical to the people? and are u talkign about wdz's pruning?
RE: scrub this by Sunshine on 01-04-2005 at 12:46 PM
All posts violating forumrules will be cleaned, moved or pruned 
Shows that we got very active members and staff 
RE: scrub this by Edna Mode on 01-04-2005 at 01:21 PM
this is the first forum ive ever been in, is it like the others???
RE: scrub this by Stigmata on 01-04-2005 at 02:18 PM
not realy, many other forums have no place like testing and trashing
in most forums, things that you see in testing and trashing would normally be deleted
other messenger communities
- http://forum.mess.be
- http://forums.msnfanatic.com
- http://www.msgpluszone.com/forums
- http://www.messenger-skins.net/
- http://forum.msgshit.net/
- http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/
RE: scrub this by WDZ on 01-04-2005 at 04:06 PM
quote:Care to tell us exactly what posts you're talking about?
Originally posted by tgnb
I dont know of any other online forum where posts critical of the people in charge get scrubbed clean like they do here
We usually don't delete criticisms and insults, as long as you don't swear excessively or make blatantly false claims, or something like that.
quote:Are you being sarcastic?
Originally posted by tgnb
Congrats!
RE: scrub this by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 07:12 PM
quote:
errr what posts critical to the people? and are u talkign about wdz's pruning?
I am not talking about wdz's pruning. I posted a reply yesterday to this thread which has been deleted/cencored:
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=36381&page=1
quote:
All posts violating forumrules will be cleaned, moved or pruned
Shows that we got very active members and staff
I guess you think i'm stupid or lazy? Why else are you stating the obvious? Do the forum rules forbid the posting of material that is critical to the mods/admins/developers?
quote:
this is the first forum ive ever been in, is it like the others???
Each forum is different. Although some are managed better than others. By the way, you might want to buy a new keyboard. Your shift key seems to be broken.
quote:
in most forums, things that you see in testing and trashing would normally be deleted
You might want to rephrase that. Surely you dont know what goes on in most forums. As I, you most llikely only know about a small fraction of boards on the net. Maybe on the subset of forums that you visit posts get deleted. In forums I visit posts generally don't get deleted at all.
quote:
Care to tell us exactly what posts you're talking about?
See answer above.
quote:
We usually don't delete criticisms and insults, as long as you don't swear excessively or make blatantly false claims, or something like that.
Usually? I didnt swear in my post nor did I make blatantly false claims or anything like that. Maybe you usually don't delete critiziszms, but i guess sometimes you do!
quote:
Are you being sarcastic?
Yeah why? Is that also against the forum rules?
RE: scrub this by WDZ on 01-04-2005 at 07:24 PM
quote:OK... the logs show that it was probably Patchou who deleted the post. As I haven't read the post myself, I can't guess what his reason was.
Originally posted by tgnb
I posted a reply yesterday to this thread which has been deleted/cencored:
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=36381&page=1
quote:No, not necessarily.
Do the forum rules forbid the posting of material that is critical to the mods/admins/developers?
quote:Well, good forums should be clean and organized, and it's hard to accomplish that without deleting posts...
In forums I visit posts generally don't get deleted at all.
quote:Sometimes there are special circumstances, or a moderator feels a certain way about something... we are all human beings here, not robots.
Usually?
quote:Of course not. I just couldn't tell if you were complaining about something or actually giving a compliment.
Yeah why? Is that also against the forum rules?
RE: scrub this by Stigmata on 01-04-2005 at 07:27 PM
quote:Seconded
Originally posted by WDZ
Well, good forums should be clean and organized, and it's hard to accomplish that without deleting posts...
RE: scrub this by parkspaperclip on 01-04-2005 at 07:37 PM
quote:
In forums I visit posts generally don't get deleted at all.
must've been some slow and boring forums you've visited then if they don't clean often...
RE: scrub this by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 08:10 PM
quote:
must've been some slow and boring forums you've visited then if they don't clean often...
Actually one of them, the Gentoo Linux forum has about 70.000 members with about 2000 posts per day and is one of the biggest installations of PHPbb. Keeping a forum clean can be accomplished without deleting posts, especially faster moving forums.
quote:
Well, good forums should be clean and organized, and it's hard to accomplish that without deleting posts...
I'm not one to tell you how to run a forum, but there are plenty of forums out there that are clean, well run and organized but don't have to resort to deleting posts. But hey, this is really what i've come to expect anyways from a forum run by an Adware bundler.
RE: scrub this by user27089 on 01-04-2005 at 08:29 PM
Oh my god, you think that a forum full of spam and stuff is tidy, thats messed up, this forum is very tidy! Thats because its constantly cleaned! If it wasn't, then it would be messed up, of course the staff delete posts, they have a right to, why have some guy posting about 70 threads and stuff, its just stupid, if its spam, delete it, if it isn't abiding by the forum rules, then delete it!!!
That last bit is completely out of order, its just offensive and ridiculing patchou, its not all big to be like you are, its just a last resort, and you're just trying to find some lame argument...
RE: scrub this by WDZ on 01-04-2005 at 08:35 PM
quote:What do they do instead of deleting? Deleting posts is really the easiest way to clean up a thread.
Originally posted by tgnb
I'm not one to tell you how to run a forum, but there are plenty of forums out there that are clean, well run and organized but don't have to resort to deleting posts.
quote:* WDZ slaps stereotypes around a bit with a large trout.
Originally posted by tgnb
But hey, this is really what i've come to expect anyways from a forum run by an Adware bundler.
Let me remind you that none of the staff members here get paid to run the forum. We're all volunteers. Also, the rules of this forum and the moderation methods were not changed when Patchou started bundling the optional sponsor program.
RE: scrub this by Plik on 01-04-2005 at 08:38 PM
Just out of question what did that post say?
Then we could work out why it was deleted.
WDZ, have you got a backup?
RE: scrub this by WDZ on 01-04-2005 at 08:41 PM
quote:Unfortunately, no. I'd also like to know what was in the post...
Originally posted by madman66
WDZ, have you got a backup?
RE: scrub this by user27089 on 01-04-2005 at 08:48 PM
Who is this guy, seriously, I think he has some sort of crazy man problem, he's not exactly a nice guy, a bit arrogant, he's like a new sam spade, except he's not attacking the bundled adware in the installer, but he's now attacking the forum staff, its quite scary, why hasn't he posted since Feb. 2003, he's just some crazy man I think, dude, come on, you need to get your facts straight before you go flailing around these forums 
.
RE: scrub this by L. Coyote on 01-04-2005 at 09:44 PM
These are the only posts the forum kept of him. Evertyhing else is pruned.
See this post. It seems this guy has something against the staff from a long time.
Now he seems to come back to stirr things up. That reads as attention seeking, IMO.
RE: RE: scrub this by Sunshine on 01-04-2005 at 10:09 PM
quote:Where did you see me say that? From what i got from your first post you think only posts critizising mods/admins/developers will be modded, this however is not the case. No matter at who a post is directed if it contains exessive flaming (not sayin that that was inthere, but there must have been something) it will get modded.
Originally posted by tgnb
quote:
All posts violating forumrules will be cleaned, moved or pruned
Shows that we got very active members and staff
I guess you think i'm stupid or lazy? Why else are you stating the obvious? Do the forum rules forbid the posting of material that is critical to the mods/admins/developers?
RE: scrub this by tgnb on 01-04-2005 at 10:25 PM
quote:
Oh my god, you think that a forum full of spam and stuff is tidy, thats messed up
Umm no, i never said that and certainly dont think so. Did you look at that forum I mentioned? Its not spam filled at all.
quote:
you're just trying to find some lame argument...
On the internet the word for this is Troll. And if you think thats what i'm doing you are welcome to ignore my posts as that is the best known method for getting rid of trolls.
quote:
What do they do instead of deleting? Deleting posts is really the easiest way to clean up a thread.
They lock threads and if necessary censor posts if they contain illegal stuff. Locked threads sink to the bottom very fast in an active thread and I guess their idea of "clean" is different from yours. I'm not a spammer. I made a critical post which someone obviously didn't like and deleted. I would even go as far as to say it would be ok to delete spammer's posts. But not posts from people with dissenting views. But then again its your forum and you can run it as you wish.
quote:
* WDZ slaps stereotypes around a bit with a large trout.
You know, the one thing about stereotypes is that although i agree that stereotyping is bad, for the most part they are generally true. The reason stereotyping is bad is because they aren't true for everyone. In this case I think the stereotype used fits the behaviour and attitude of Patchou in regards to the adware 100%.
quote:
Let me remind you that none of the staff members here get paid to run the forum. We're all volunteers. Also, the rules of this forum and the moderation methods were not changed when Patchou started bundling the optional sponsor program.
Yes thats probably true. But in my opinion the behaviour of deleting dissenting posts falls exactly in line with the attitude Patchou has about the adware he is bundling. What i'm saying is that I'm not surprised that somone who runs a forum where deleting dissenting posts is an accepted practice would end up bundling their free software with adware. Or the other way around. It works both ways.
quote:
Just out of question what did that post say?
Lets see if reposting what i stated in my censored posts gets deleted again. Basically what I said was that I was happy to see that the anti-spyware software from Giang/Microsoft treated Messenger Plus the way it did because of the adware that was bundled. I'm happy that the makers of that software basically feel the same way I do about Messenger Plus as is apparent in their description visible in the screenshot. I'm happy that someone with more authority on the subject than myself has echoed my feelings. Mainly in the hope that somone can knock some sense into Patchou, something none of the people who complained about the adware in the past have been able to do. From Patchou's responses it doesn't seem like thats going to happen. He seems a bit stubborn and unable to truly listen to people's points. I find that sad really as he otherwise writes good software
.quote:
he's now attacking the forum staff
I'm not attacking the forum staff. Disagreeing is not the same as attacking.
quote:
why hasn't he posted since Feb. 2003
Because thats when I stopped using the software because of my disagreement with the attitude Patchou has in regards to the adware. I came back and posted mainly because i was happy to see that Microsoft/Giant anti-spyware software categorized Plus in the exact same way I felt about the software. Maybe I was gloating a little in a "I told you so" way. Thats probably why Patchou didnt like it and deleted it.
RE: scrub this by wj on 01-04-2005 at 10:38 PM
I have to say, I too am glad that microsoft's anti-spyware software detects msgplus, But without looking at it, it seems as if it would do it regardless of if the sponsor program is installed or not. Thats where it is just wreckless, By that same token I could create a anti-spyware software that reports windows as a peice of spyware for having the activation required. It's just wreckless that microsoft would make such a generalization about msgplus and the optional adware bundle.
The adware bundle provides Patchou with the income and resources to continue developing this fine peice of software, He's not greedy with what it brings in and he doesnt make any efforts to force people to use the associated ad-ware. Patchou has gone as far as to include multiple warnings in the installer and tried to make it as clear as possible to the end user that it is there, Why is this a bad thing? To keep developing a peice of software of this magnitude, it takes money. Money that C2Media provides to pay for servers, bandwidth, and to help patchou continue developing. Why cant people understand that? How about microsoft starts bundling the same adware with microsoft office? Help pay for the costs of piracy? Would that knock some sense into you?
Sorry for the rambling, I'm at work and go back and fourth between support requests and this forum so it gets a little fragmented.
RE: scrub this by L. Coyote on 01-04-2005 at 10:38 PM
I see. The only reason you came back is because you enjoy stirring up things. You just confirmed it.
A normal person would have gone away, and never come back. Someone who wants attention and likes to cause trouble comes back.
You are free not to use the software and think whatever you want, but that's where it stops. You can't come here and badmouth Patchou or the forums just because you don't like the sponsor program.
I have already told another person that it depends on how you say things. No one will listen to you if you come and act all high and mighty, or in a rage and insult people. This...
quote:is what I mean.
Originally posted by tgnb
Maybe I was gloating a little in a "I told you so" way. Thats probably why Patchou didnt like it and deleted it.
Instead, say things in a calmed and respectful matter. Patchou is human, you know.
And the mods at these forums too. And the members.
Until then, don't expect everyone to pay you the respect you're demanding.
RE: scrub this by Plik on 01-04-2005 at 10:40 PM
quote:There is a very minimal amount of complaints about the sponsor compared to the amount of installs.
Originally posted by tgnb
unable to truly listen to people's points
quote:But this would try and stop them from installing it even with out the sponsor. Wheres the point in that?
Originally posted by tgnb
Giang/Microsoft treated Messenger Plus the way it did because of the adware that was bundled.
The complaints arnt about the adware beeign brought up. Its the fact that it is saying its messenger plus that does the damage. When infact even the adware doesnt "damage" peoples computers.
Also the threat level is extrdinaraly high. If thats how they rate some with with OPTIONAL adware, what does spyware that steals credit cards count as?
quote:The way you critisissed the moderation methods was quite rude and attacking.
Originally posted by tgnb
quote:
he's now attacking the forum staff
I'm not attacking the forum staff. Disagreeing is not the same as attacking.
In general you seam to have a very bad feeling towards patchou, what do you want, for him to remove the adware?
Then he'd have to find anouther means of income and not be able to develop plus as well.
I hope you have an open mind about this and when pressented the facts you might actially change you mind.
RE: scrub this by tgnb on 01-05-2005 at 12:22 AM
quote:
To keep developing a peice of software of this magnitude, it takes money. Money that C2Media provides to pay for servers, bandwidth, and to help patchou continue developing. Why cant people understand that? How about microsoft starts bundling the same adware with microsoft office? Help pay for the costs of piracy? Would that knock some sense into you?
wj, whether or not developing a piece of software of Plus's magnitude truly requires money is a topic for another day. I will only point out that there are several free software packages such as Gaim, Gimp or WinSCP of equal or larger magnitudes that make do without. My view is however that there are many proven and working methods for a developer to make enough money for continued development and more which are much more ethical than bundling what many people perceive to be questionable adware.
quote:
The only reason you came back is because you enjoy stirring up things.
Either you missed this part of my post or you chose to ignore it because it makes it pretty clear that I didnt come back only because i like stirring things up.
quote:
Mainly in the hope that somone can knock some sense into Patchou, something none of the people who complained about the adware in the past have been able to do.
quote:
You are free not to use the software and think whatever you want, but that's where it stops.
Um actually no. If thats where it stops Patchou wouldn't provide this forum where people can voice their opinions Or he would provide the forum only to registered users or something like that. It is a public forum however (with certain rules of course). I dont think those rules state I am only allowed to post if I agree with everything that Patchou does. I hope Patchou gets rid of the adware and finds another more ethical revenue stream. I posted a comment because I was happy to see that somone with more authority agrees with me about the bundled adware. This gave me new hope that maybe Pathou would finally change his mind and start seeing things from a different perspective.
quote:
The way you critisissed the moderation methods was quite rude and attacking.
Based on the posts from the admins who have responded in this thread, they either saw past it or didnt feel that it was quite as rude and attacking as you did.
quote:
In general you seam to have a very bad feeling towards patchou, what do you want, for him to remove the adware?
Yes that would be excellent.
quote:
Then he'd have to find anouther means of income and not be able to develop plus as well.
Not necessarily. He could delegate the job of finding another means of income to those users who want to get rid of the adware bundling. His power is in the community of users Messenger Plus enjoys. Not everyone can or wants to donate money. But in general people are more than willing to donate time which in turn can be used to find other more ethical revenue streams.
quote:
I hope you have an open mind about this and when pressented the facts you might actially change you mind.
I hope the same thing about you and also Patchou.
RE: scrub this by Sam Spade on 01-06-2005 at 10:41 AM
quote:Wow, some of us would get the sack for doing personal stuff on company time. Lucky you
Originally posted by wj
Sorry for the rambling, I'm at work and go back and fourth between support requests and this forum so it gets a little fragmented.
RE: scrub this by surfichris on 01-06-2005 at 12:02 PM
Your post was an attack about the sponsor program in Messenger Plus. I read it, I replied and they were both deleted.
I think this situation is resolved, don't you?