MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) - Printable Version
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MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-12-2005 at 10:10 PM
I found this and found it funny :
Just days after the launch of open-source browser Firefox 1.0, Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.
At a security roundtable discussion in Sydney on Thursday, Ben English, Microsoft's security and management product manager, told attendees that IE undergoes "rigorous code reviews" and is no less secure than any other browser.
"Because IE is ubiquitous, you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," English said.
Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, agreed, saying he does not believe IE's market share is under attack following the recent high-profile debut of the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser.
Vamos said that although he has heard other people mention the competitive threat posed by Firefox, he doesn't see it as a problem.
IE is probably the worst for security and they say there is nothing wrong with IE's security
Just cause IE comes as standard on Microsoft doesn't mean FFox is not a threat I think Microsoft should be worried by it.
Sorry if this is really old
. Do you think IE is under threat from FFox?
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by .blade// on 01-12-2005 at 10:16 PM
I think these two images fit in well
![[Image: old_news.jpg]](http://shoutbox.menthix.net/images/old_news.jpg)
![[Image: smells.jpg]](http://shoutbox.menthix.net/images/smells.jpg)
Firefox pwns IE. it's faster, has more features, looks better and is open-sourced.
And yes, I think IE is threatened by Mozilla. I think Microsoft is threatened by Mozilla It's only a matter of time before Mozilla makes an operating system that's faster, more stable, has more features than Windows and is open sourced 
.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by Mike on 01-12-2005 at 10:22 PM
quote:I really agree with that.
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
"Because IE is ubiquitous, you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," English said.
I dont like arguing nor I have something against Firefox but, can you tell me some sites where i can get my computer infected with spyware?
The only sites that come to my mind are porn sites(install dialers if you choose to install them) and some other illegal sites...
I visist these forums, search google and go to sites and no signal of spyware in my computer...
Some people shouldnt believe everything they read on the net...
I can only call Firefox a bit securer than IE because Firefox doesnt display ActiveX warnings when you are visit some of the sites mentioned above...
IE just shows them and you choose if you want to install the ActiveX or not...
But please, let's not start another Browser-war thread...
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-12-2005 at 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike2
But please, let's not start another Browser-war thread...
I am not trying to make a browser war thread. I am just asking should IE/MS be worried about FireFox?
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by Plik on 01-12-2005 at 10:39 PM
quote:Linus torvald alredy has
Originally posted by blade
It's only a matter of time before Mozilla makes an operating system that's faster, more stable, has more features than Windows and is open sourced
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by qune on 01-13-2005 at 12:05 AM
quote:not at all... since IE comes with windows, there's no possible threat from firefox... an enormous amount of all the PC users in the world know "the internet" as a blue 'e' letter on their desktop... if MS don't replace it's browser (which comes with every single copy of windows) with firefox, they have nothing to worry about...
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
I am just asking should IE/MS be worried about FireFox?
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by Hank on 01-13-2005 at 01:05 AM
if you Follow Netscape, the next Netscape release is gonna have 2 Engines in it, the IE Engine Plus the Default which is Gecko, so M$$$ an AOLHELL both have a Win /win situation what the Next Netscape release will be is the Code base will be Based on firefox1.0 , more oinfo can be found searching google or cnet news or http://sillydog.org/
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by sock on 01-13-2005 at 07:45 AM
quote:Actually, that's the main reason for me *not* using Firefox: it starts up way too slow on my machine.
Originally posted by blade
it's faster
quote:
has more features
. Some privacy/advanced features are really missing in IE (as with most MS apps), although I'm mostly fine with what it's got.quote:
looks better
, but that's not such an important thing. quote:Great, but that fact by itself has nothing to do with how good the browser is.
and is open-sourced.
quote:Gimme a break...
It's only a matter of time before Mozilla makes an operating system that's faster, more stable, has more features than Windows and is open sourced
It took them like 10 years to make a good browser (and it still has some rendering glitches), it would take them 50 years to make an OS. But I do believe that some Japanese/Korean/Chinese company will make a superior OS one day and take over the market. 
RE: RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by heatus on 01-13-2005 at 08:42 AM
quote:
Gimme a break...
10 years? firefox did not take that long to make. What about the original mozilla.. which is what netscape is based off. Netscape was the top browser for years.
From my experience Firefox renders pages better than IE. The only reason some pages don't load properly in Firefox is because they don't comply with W3C standards. I expect to write some CSS and for it to be displayed the way it is meant to be displayed, IE just does its own thing.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by sock on 01-13-2005 at 11:44 AM
quote:IE hasn't changed much since the 90s, yet Mozilla only recently started to seriously threaten it (or something). It took them many years to really be able to challenge IE. IMO, they're just too slow since they are free open source and have no deadlines/money.
Originally posted by heatus
10 years? firefox did not take that long to make. What about the original mozilla.. which is what netscape is based off. Netscape was the top browser for years.
quote:You admit that Firefox gets glitches sometimes (unlike IE), yet you say it renders better? How does it render better? IE may render differently, but it doesn't mess pages up. Perhaps you're referring to W3C compliance?
From my experience Firefox renders pages better than IE. The only reason some pages don't load properly in Firefox is because they don't comply with W3C standards. I expect to write some CSS and for it to be displayed the way it is meant to be displayed, IE just does its own thing.
I agree that ideally, complying with the W3C "standards" would be the best solution for everyone. But the simple fact is, the Web's *practical* standard nowadays is IE. And since there's no global Web authority to decide or enforce anything, IE is actually more of a "standard" than W3C.
I don't like or support IE, but I do acknowledge that it dominates the Web. The browser wars are long gone, IE won. The Web is so IE-oriented now, that I can hardly imagine W3C prevailing. IE is more Web-compatible than any W3C-compliant browser.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-13-2005 at 11:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sock
quote:
Originally posted by blade
it's faster
Actually, that's the main reason for me *not* using Firefox: it starts up way too slow on my machine.
Yes it does take more time to load up than IE does that's because as a lot of people know IE is loaded up with Windows for quick access to it.
Firefox does actually load pages up faster that's what blade ment.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by heatus on 01-13-2005 at 11:58 AM
It would be ideal though if IE followed some strict standards. Since W3C already has some standards I do not understand why it is so hard for Microsoft to follow them.
Sometimes I will write some stuff in CSS and in firefox it will work fine but then I will view the site in IE and it will do nothing or do something completely unexpected. Then I will have to spend ages using google to search for a work around so it looks right in IE. It requires so much more work to just make IE do something which would otherwise be simple.
I don't agree that browser wars are over yet. Obviously Firefox is probably IE's closest competitor at the moment. But what firefox is missing is marketing (and the fact it is not included in Windows) they don't have enough money for this. So most people wouldn't even know Firefox existed. This is probably why netscape was more successful than plain mozilla. They could afford to make deals so their browser would be bundled with other software. I still think this is room for a new browser to take IE's place but it probably won't happen while IE is so integrated with Windows.
Edit: Oh and firefox gets glitches because IE does not follow standards! If Microsoft actually listed their own standards I would say yeah firefox should follow IE's standards because it is the main browser. But you can't say because IE is the most popular browser that it goes by the standards. The way IE renders pages sometimes makes no sense.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by sock on 01-13-2005 at 12:16 PM
quote:I don't care what's the reason, it loads up faster.
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
Yes it does take more time to load up than IE does that's because as a lot of people know IE is loaded up with Windows for quick access to it.
I know Microsoft is dodgy, but they already rule the OS/browser world, they have forced their ways on the world.You know, following this logic, Firefox users actually waste their resources since they have both Firefox and IE loaded.
quote:I suppose... but any browser renders a page in less than a second, the differences in startup time are much more significant. Mind you, I am not even satisfied with IE's load time... I think XP is to blame for my computer being so slow.
Firefox does actually load pages up faster that's what blade ment.
quote:Because that would make much of the Web render on the new IE differently than intended. That's the last think MS wants - lots of (non-geek) Webmasters and users mad at them.
Originally posted by heatus
Since W3C already has some standards I do not understand why it is so hard for Microsoft to follow them.
As for the rest of your post: Indeed, it's very bad that Microsoft doesn't publish any organized specifications for their rendering engine. I know they are dodgy and make things difficult, and as I said it would be ideal if everyone were W3C-compliant. But IE's current status gives us no choice.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by John Anderton on 01-13-2005 at 01:55 PM
I used to use ie but once i used ffox i was hooked on like the most of u. Total custumization, awesome extensions and themes and much much faster than ie (in start up time) imo.
Ffox is light years ahead. Once i got a taste of ffox there is no going back to ie 
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by .blade// on 01-13-2005 at 03:35 PM
Firstly - while I was browsing, I found the roadmap to Firefox 2.0:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.html
Secondly, you can look at the roadmap to Firefox 1.0. It can be viewed HERE. It clearly states the first release was in 2002, so about 2 years to fully develop a web browser 
:
0.1 Pescadero 2002-09-23 Bugs Initial release introducing customizable toolbars, simple new interface, performance and size improvements, and lots of destruction.
0.2 Santa Cruz 2002-10-01 Bugs Improvements to toolbar customization, inline web form autocomplete, sidebar, extensions management, making preferences work (somewhat), more size improvements and bug fixing.
0.3 Lucia 2002-10-14 Bugs A few more features, global Go menu, improvements to pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing improvements, redesign of bookmark groups, more speed and size improvements and lots of bug fixing.
0.4 Oceano 2002-10-21 Bugs Shifting from features to bug fixing and polish. Plans to leverage the Mozilla 1.2 stability push to make Phoenix rock solid.
0.5 Naples 2002-12-07 Bugs Polish and cleanup. Lots of bug fixing.
0.6 Glendale 2003-05-16 Bugs Redesigned Options window, new default theme, smooth scrolling, automatic image resizing, and much more.
0.6.1 Glendale 2003-07-28 Bugs Security and other critical fixes, middle mouse button pan scrolling, a few other fixes picked up off the trunk.
0.7 Indio 2003-10-14 Bugs Updated helper applications management, automatic downloading, plugin control, bookmark panels, theme updates and numerous bug fixes.
0.7.1 Three Kings 2003-10-25 Bugs Maintenance update for Mac OS X - focusing on a small number of critical bugs that were present in 0.7 (see link) including external URL handling (when used as default browser) and page Save-As.
0.8 Royal Oak 2004-02-09 Bugs + - ? Download System Upgrade (ongoing Helper Applications and Download Manager updates), Part II (ben), XPInstall UI Upgrade (ben), Windows Installer (ben), Add Bookmark Dialog UI (pch)
0.9 One Tree Hill 2004-06-15 Bugs + -
? "Feature Complete" - Linux Installer (bryner), Mail Integration UI (mail button option for toolbar to launch default mailer) (ben), Extension API Changes [chrome registry changes, extension update UI] (ben+et.al.) SmartUpdate (ben) Migration Engine (ben), Help System Documentation Integration (rlk)
1.0PR Greenlane 2004-09-14 Bugs + - ? Bugs with higher complexity/risk, localization impact. See queries.
Release Candidates: RC1 (Mission Bay - 2004-10-27) and RC2 (Whangamata - 2004-11-03)
1.0 Phoenix 2004-11-9 Bugs + - ? Ultra Critical Bugs, PR Feedback
1.1 Deer Park March 2005 Bugs Re-sync with trunk. Ongoing HIG compliance work for Aqua, GNOME etc.
1.5 "The Ocho" ??? 2005 Bugs First major half of 2.0 development.
2.0 ??? 2005 Bugs Second major half of 2.0 development.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by paperless on 01-13-2005 at 04:12 PM
Firefox is much better the only bad things is that he suses a lot of ram when u have lots of tabs but it desotn install things of some kidns of sites u odnt ask it to..
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by CookieRevised on 01-13-2005 at 04:34 PM
ok, and now stop this browser-war and go back to the topic... thank you...
There are far too many threads about which browser is best, what browser is based upon what etc... and besides many things I read here are twisted facts anyway:
eg: blade, Firefox (the name/brand) itself is 2 years old, but the engine/codebase itself, the thing on which Firefox is based upon, is much older (1998 if you consider the public release of the opensource, 1994/95 even you go even further back). Thus it goes back to almost the begining days of the web; you could well say that Firefox (and the whole mozilla family) is as old as MSIE)
If you want to dicuss this, then go to some of the thousands of tech forums specially dedicated to this and where you can "discuss" your browser 24/7, year in, year out...
I'm tired of seeing a new thread about this every 20 days...
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-13-2005 at 04:57 PM
Ok sorry then cookie. 
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by CookieRevised on 01-13-2005 at 05:01 PM
Don't be, your question is legit though:
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
Sorry if this is really old . Do you think IE is under threat from FFox?
...but it is somewhat dangerous, because as you could see this easly evolved into yet another browser war...
thus, to others:
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
ok, and now stop this browser-war and go back to the topic...
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-13-2005 at 05:05 PM
I think a browser war thread is immature I mean they all do the same job (load internet pages). It was ment to be a question not to be made into an argument.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by mad_onion on 01-13-2005 at 05:52 PM
well firefox is a small threat. in the terms of the number of home users that may change to firefox because it is easy to do. on a network it is much more difficult so a network administrator probaly wouldnt bother. and its them that firefox needs to impress. in the big scheme of things home users arent going to be able to do anything to help increase firefox usage on a big scale (as much as you might think you can).
for networks to change over firefox will have to become a lot better at being able to display all web pages. it doesnt matter if thats the browser or the sites fault. and ie would have to have some kind of big problem that would force people to change but i dont see that happening any tmie soon.
in summary, firefox does pose a threat in the home use area btu not generally.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by saralk on 01-13-2005 at 09:12 PM
I actually think Microsoft wants firefox/opera/other browsers to over take it.
Now web browsers have just become a part of daily computing life, and most people expect browsers to be free (Legal copies of opera will be for the true elite, like me 
) there is not much money to be made from creating a killer web browser, Windows Media gets money from licensing content and MSN Music etc..., but there is not much scope for making money in a web browser.
So, the more people that use alternate browser, the less attention IE and its flaws get, that means Microsoft can shift coders from working on IE, to working on other projects that can pull in more money, sure they can release the occasional update to keep the IE users happy, but apart from that they can stop major work on IE.
Just an opinion
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user2319 on 01-14-2005 at 08:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
Sorry if this is really old
It is getting used more and more. And I'm more satisfied with Firefox than with IE..
quote:quote:
[i]Originally posted by blade[i]
It's only a matter of time before Mozilla makes an operating system that's faster, more stable, has more features than Windows and is open sourced
Linus torvald alredy has
He just made a free kernel. But GNU/Linux is very nice
I recently installed Gentoo, and that's one hell of a distro! Go portage!quote:
I don't care what's the reason, it loads up faster.I know Microsoft is dodgy, but they already rule the OS/browser world, they have forced their ways on the world.
You know, following this logic, Firefox users actually waste their resources since they have both Firefox and IE loaded.
Only if they run Windows..
quote:
I think a browser war thread is immature I mean they all do the same job (load internet pages). It was ment to be a question not to be made into an argument.
Yes, but some render internet pages better; it's just as normal as arguing about "Which car/tv/etc is better?" Especially since some people here use there browser multiple hours a day.
quote:
well firefox is a small threat. in the terms of the number of home users that may change to firefox because it is easy to do. on a network it is much more difficult so a network administrator probaly wouldnt bother. and its them that firefox needs to impress. in the big scheme of things home users arent going to be able to do anything to help increase firefox usage on a big scale (as much as you might think you can).
for networks to change over firefox will have to become a lot better at being able to display all web pages. it doesnt matter if thats the browser or the sites fault. and ie would have to have some kind of big problem that would force people to change but i dont see that happening any tmie soon.
in summary, firefox does pose a threat in the home use area btu not generally.
Is it really that hard to install on a network? (I have no idea). On what basis do you think so? Maybe this will help: http://gaugusch.at/firefox.shtml
And ehm, it's actually the home users who make the differences. Because they'll complain if they want application X which they also use at home.
quote:
I actually think Microsoft wants firefox/opera/other browsers to over take it.
Now web browsers have just become a part of daily computing life, and most people expect browsers to be free (Legal copies of opera will be for the true elite, like me ) there is not much money to be made from creating a killer web browser, Windows Media gets money from licensing content and MSN Music etc..., but there is not much scope for making money in a web browser.
So, the more people that use alternate browser, the less attention IE and its flaws get, that means Microsoft can shift coders from working on IE, to working on other projects that can pull in more money, sure they can release the occasional update to keep the IE users happy, but apart from that they can stop major work on IE.
Just an opinion
Interesting theory...
Click my signature
And... Browse Happy!
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-14-2005 at 08:13 PM
quote:
I actually think Microsoft wants firefox/opera/other browsers to over take it.
Why would they everyone takes Windows as THE OS not a OS. People expect Windows to be the best therefore they expect the software included in Windows to be the best.
IE was the milestone for web browsers and it still should be although Firefox has kinda took over. IE is one of the reasons Micrsoft is so popular. When they make a IE 7 it might be just the best web browser yet.
RE: RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by heatus on 01-15-2005 at 03:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
IE was the milestone for web browsers and it still should be although Firefox has kinda took over. IE is one of the reasons Micrsoft is so popular. When they make a IE 7 it might be just the best web browser yet.
Internet Explorer is not one of the reasons Microsoft is so popular. IE is bundled with Windows and Microsoft is famous because of Windows. Most Windows users wouldn't know there was such a thing as a different browser to IE. Microsoft don't need to update Internet Explorer they know that people are still going to use it, its a free product and Microsoft are interested in making money.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by dotNorma on 01-15-2005 at 04:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by heatus
Sometimes I will write some stuff in CSS and in firefox it will work fine but then I will view the site in IE and it will do nothing or do something completely unexpected. Then I will have to spend ages using google to search for a work around so it looks right in IE. It requires so much more work to just make IE do something which would otherwise be simple.
Just stumbled upon that and its true! My old website only worked in FireFox , IE just brang up an error. And even now my menu works perfect in FireFox but doesn't show in IE and I have to find out why.
RE: RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user2319 on 01-15-2005 at 01:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
quote:
I actually think Microsoft wants firefox/opera/other browsers to over take it.
Why would they everyone takes Windows as THE OS not a OS. People expect Windows to be the best therefore they expect the software included in Windows to be the best.
They don't expect these things. They don't now there's something else than Windows. Windows was included with their Dell. They don't know what an OS is.
quote:
IE was the milestone for web browsers and it still should be although Firefox has kinda took over. IE is one of the reasons Micrsoft is so popular. When they make a IE 7 it might be just the best web browser yet.
I agree with heatus
quote:
Originally posted by heatus
Internet Explorer is not one of the reasons Microsoft is so popular. IE is bundled with Windows and Microsoft is famous because of Windows. Most Windows users wouldn't know there was such a thing as a different browser to IE. Microsoft don't need to update Internet Explorer they know that people are still going to use it, its a free product and Microsoft are interested in making money.
Yeah, MS should do something about IE's rendering engine. It'd be really nice if it'd support <object> according to the W3C standards. That would mean that you could have text with markup as alt-text, and have multiple
And of course MS is threatened. If people go IE -> Firefox, they might also go Office -> OOo, and Outlook -> Thunderbird. And since these are all cross-platform.......
NoName, what's your website then?
quote:
NoName's Contact Details
Web Site: None
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-15-2005 at 01:17 PM
I think Mircosoft is getting too lazy though. They have dominated the pc software market for a while now and they think they will continue to. But they won't if they just leave the state of their software how it is now! They need to update their top products instead of making new stupid ones.
RE: RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by heatus on 01-15-2005 at 03:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
I think Mircosoft is getting too lazy though. They have dominated the pc software market for a while now and they think they will continue to. But they won't if they just leave the state of their software how it is now! They need to update their top products instead of making new stupid ones.
I don't know, there are no *real* competitors to Microsoft. There is no other OS that has the software support as Windows does. Linux is no competitor to Windows as much as I hate to say it, it was never meant to be I don't think. I find myself always coming back to windows because I like to play games and use other software which is only available on Windows. Microsoft know this and they know they can take their time updating their products because there is no strong competitor in sight. But other than IE, Microsoft has kept most of their software up to date. Windows media player has had a recent update, a new version of MSN is in beta stages, and there is probably a whole bunch of other stuff that they have done which I'm not going to go in to.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by M73A on 01-15-2005 at 03:26 PM
a lot of people i talk to like the fact the firefox doesnt have as many security threats because it isnt the main explorer but anyone hu has a lil pc knowledge can see why people are using firefox, opera or a diferent web browser. its not about how up to date IE is tho i dont think . its just the fact that it has most security threats
RE: RE: RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user2319 on 01-15-2005 at 04:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by heatus
quote:
Originally posted by Carltos Cool
I think Mircosoft is getting too lazy though. They have dominated the pc software market for a while now and they think they will continue to. But they won't if they just leave the state of their software how it is now! They need to update their top products instead of making new stupid ones.
I don't know, there are no *real* competitors to Microsoft. There is no other OS that has the software support as Windows does. Linux is no competitor to Windows as much as I hate to say it, it was never meant to be I don't think. I find myself always coming back to windows because I like to play games and use other software which is only available on Windows. Microsoft know this and they know they can take their time updating their products because there is no strong competitor in sight. But other than IE, Microsoft has kept most of their software up to date. Windows media player has had a recent update, a new version of MSN is in beta stages, and there is probably a whole bunch of other stuff that they have done which I'm not going to go in to.
They aren't lazy.. they are doing as much as they can to make people "get the facts". There are some good LInux games, but, indeed, not enough. UT2004 is available for Linux, and Wesnoth is really cool. I don't know if WMP is up-to-date, but I don't like it.. and Outlook is also full of security-holes.. And Thunderbird is really nice. Even my mom can use it
The battle for Wesnoth (turn-based strategy game with a fantasy theme)
Unreal Tournament 2004
quote:
a lot of people i talk to like the fact the firefox doesnt have as many security threats because it isnt the main explorer but anyone hu has a lil pc knowledge can see why people are using firefox, opera or a diferent web browser. its not about how up to date IE is tho i dont think . its just the fact that it has most security threats
IE isn't up to date. It's 3 years old. No tabbed-browsing, built-in search, etc.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user58943 on 01-15-2005 at 04:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I don't know if WMP is up-to-date, but I don't like it..
WMP is up to date and I quite like it. It is in it's 10th incarnation and it has come along way since the days of WMP 4. There is also loads of free plug-ins you can download for it. You should try it... here's where you can download it from : http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/default.aspx.
RE: MS say firefox is not a threat to IE (old news) by user2319 on 01-15-2005 at 08:01 PM
I just like WinAmp and XMMS better. What do you need these plug-ins for?