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Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-10-2005 at 06:32 PM

Church of Reality. I think it's a good idea. What do you think?

Spread the sacred message - reality!


RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-10-2005 at 06:57 PM

Sounds pretty cool, but more like a cult really, its interesting, but a bit disrespectful to those dedicated religions really...


RE: Church of Reality by L. Coyote on 02-10-2005 at 07:06 PM

I don't like churches... Or religion, at all. :dodgy:

The poll should have some other neutral thing, I just voted for "blah... crap" cuz the others don't fit my thoughts. :P


RE: Church of Reality by paperless on 02-10-2005 at 07:52 PM

Ill just stay atheist thanks :P

Since it has principles to guide my life.. thanks but no thanks.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST 500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYYAAYAYAYAYYAYAYAAAAYAYAAYYAAYYAY :o)


RE: Church of Reality by mad_onion on 02-10-2005 at 09:20 PM

yes it is rubbish. i will stick with good old reliable atheist. i think it is the only religion where the main principle is to NOT believe something that another religion made up.
and on the subject of religion it is only a bad thing because it cause so may wars and suffering in the world it cant be good. i wish all countries were communist (without the evil dictator) so that we didnt have to deal with all this religion rubbish.


RE: Church of Reality by Tasha on 02-10-2005 at 09:23 PM

Gonna vote for blah..crap as that fits my thoughts also.

I really don't get the point. :rolleyes: You don't need a church to live in reality do you? Or have I misunderstood? :p


RE: Church of Reality by fluffy_lobster on 02-10-2005 at 09:40 PM

Is this not just a template of a church without any beliefs?  It seems to me it addresses all the common concepts of sacredness, mission etc. without actually having any motive.  It's a rather elaborate way of saying that we exist.


RE: Church of Reality by Purity on 02-10-2005 at 10:15 PM

I say Nay! :P
I'm not really into churchy stuff...
I like to be free..... :)


RE: Church of Reality by DJeX on 02-11-2005 at 01:23 AM

I can't belive that. Like traxor said its more of a cult.

Cult = (N)


RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-11-2005 at 10:24 AM

Don't want to be part of something that isn't there, surely there will always be beliefs, you can't just think about nothing, you have to believe about something somewhere, surely...


RE: Church of Reality by John Anderton on 02-11-2005 at 10:36 AM

I liked the message of the movie stigmata the most.
Google it :)


RE: Church of Reality by Anubis on 02-11-2005 at 10:43 AM

This just seems like a cult, tbh.
I'm a Christian and I like faith, I prefer to not think of it as religion more of having faith and trying to live under grace and follow the teachings and be close to Jesus. The whole helping those who need help was one of the reasons I actually enjoy helping people out here


RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-11-2005 at 10:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
This just seems like a cult, tbh.
I'm a Christian and I like faith, I prefer to not think of it as religion more of having faith and trying to live under grace and follow the teachings and be close to Jesus. The whole helping those who need help was one of the reasons I actually enjoy helping people out here

I have to agree there, I'm not a devout catholic, but at the same time I am dedicated to my religion and respect every religion out there...

I've already said it seems like a cult in my first post :rolleyes:... but yea, there are some cults that are mass, and are pretty much religions, if they mean well then its okay, and I respect that, but if they disrespect other religions and are blasphemous etc. then its just completely rude...
RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-11-2005 at 06:12 PM

I think it's actually one of the best ideas ever :banana: Believing in what is Real, instead of some crap fiction-based religion. And atheist isn't a religion, it's just saying "I don't believe in god". You should really read some more pages of the site, instead of just reading ~2 paragraphs and the name :P

I suggest these pages:

the Tree of Knowledge
How the Church of Reality got started
"Does God exist?"
Original, more rude "Does God exist?"


RE: Church of Reality by _Humphreys on 02-11-2005 at 06:18 PM

Well it's an unbiased church which would actually make a good religon. Making an un-biased religon accepting that everyone may be right.


RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-11-2005 at 06:21 PM

How can you insist that its not real, a lot of the stuff isn't just belief and made up, there is evidence that jesus was real and stuff... I've read through, but its stupid, how can you make something reality when what you are trying to prevent is apparently not real, surely trying to forget that is being unrealistic...


RE: Church of Reality by Jhrono on 02-11-2005 at 06:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I think it's actually one of the best ideas ever Believing in what is Real, instead of some crap fiction-based religion.


Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...
RE: RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-11-2005 at 07:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by traxor
How can you insist that its not real, a lot of the stuff isn't just belief and made up, there is evidence that jesus was real and stuff...
I didn't say Jezus didn't exist!

quote:
I've read through, but its stupid, how can you make something reality when what you are trying to prevent is apparently not real
?? What are you talking about?

quote:
, surely trying to forget that is being unrealistic...


quote:
Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...

I didn't say Jezus didn't exist.

Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...
RE: Church of Reality by mad_onion on 02-11-2005 at 07:43 PM

lol leo very funny. i think most people will agree that jesus did exist as it seems hard to believe that the people who wrote the new testemant actually all got together to make someone up. its just the walking through walls bit that didnt happen. lets face it the bible is a work of fiction and god doesnt exist and people seem to only have religion so that they dont have to worry about what happens when they die. (if you didnt know you just decompose in the ground and thats it ..... nothing else)


RE: Church of Reality by L. Coyote on 02-11-2005 at 07:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mad_onion
lol leo very funny. i think most people will agree that jesus did exist as it seems hard to believe that the people who wrote the new testemant actually all got together to make someone up. its just the walking through walls bit that didnt happen. lets face it the bible is a work of fiction and god doesnt exist and people seem to only have religion so that they dont have to worry about what happens when they die. (if you didnt know you just decompose in the ground and thats it ..... nothing else)
Yeah, those people did exist. But the bible and other books were originally done as a politic thing against the Romans and later got translated very, very bad, and over and over again, and stuff was made up to cover the bad or lost pieces... And that's how today millions of people believe in a very crappy translation. 8-)
RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-11-2005 at 08:34 PM

It's not just that, Leo, it's also that the there are a lot of religious books, but it was decided that some *are* holy, and others are not. Which is just completely stupid. This page features some nice questions to Christians: http://www.churchofreality.org/opinion/christian-reality.htm :P

  • Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God, that it has been accurately preserved through the ages, and that everything it says is true?

  • There are thousands of denominations of Christians. Why do you believe that your denomination is the best one - if you believe that - and can it be improved?

  • If you realized that a different denomination of Christianity were more accurate than the one you are currently a member of - would you change religions?

  • Do you consider yourself to be one of the "chosen ones"?

  • Do you really think that everyone else who isn't a Christian is really going to burn in Hell forever?

  • Do you think that Armageddon will occur in your lifetime?


Also, I ask all Christians: Why doesn't God come out of hiding? I mean, in the bible it's very clear he can do all sorts of super-natural things.. If he would show up and do some of these super-natural things, for everyone to see, I would believe in God.
RE: Church of Reality by Rik on 02-11-2005 at 08:49 PM

I've got a religion and with this one is just more one to the religians book......


RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 10:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Also, I ask all Christians: Why doesn't God come out of hiding?
:)
Oh, He is so going to.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I mean, in the bible it's very clear he can do all sorts of super-natural things.. If he would show up and do some of these super-natural things, for everyone to see, I would believe in God.
And by the time He comes for the second coming, it's already too late to believe that He does exist.
So, make your choice now ;)
RE: RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 10:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by thekid
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Also, I ask all Christians: Why doesn't God come out of hiding?
:)
Oh, He is so going to.

People have been saying that for.. umm well.. about 1900 years. And there's *still* people thinking the end of the world will be in their lifetime.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I mean, in the bible it's very clear he can do all sorts of super-natural things.. If he would show up and do some of these super-natural things, for everyone to see, I would believe in God.
And by the time He comes for the second coming, it's already too late to believe that He does exist.
So, make your choice now ;)


thekid, you don't really believe in God, do you? :dodgy: If you do, is it just because your parents do aswell, or because you *really* believe that crap? Have you read the bible? Because I can't imagine someone believing in God after having read the bible, unless they turned their brains off while reading.
RE: Church of Reality by toddy on 02-12-2005 at 10:30 AM

where the option to vote "wot the hell is the Church of Reality :S"

* toddy goes to google..........


RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 10:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
thekid, you don't really believe in God, do you? :dodgy:
Yes, I do :)
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
If you do, is it just because your parents do aswell,
No.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
or because you *really* believe that crap?
Yes, I do *really* believe that crap.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Have you read the bible?
Err.. Every night.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Because I can't imagine someone believing in God after having read the bible, unless they turned their brains off while reading.
Well, you are correct this time. I was trying hard to deny it. It takes time to believe that it is the truth.
RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 12:20 PM

So, thekid, do you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that it's correct? Because there are a *lot* of translation issues with it. This is a nice article about it.


RE: Church of Reality by Jhrono on 02-12-2005 at 12:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

I didn't say Jezus didn't exist.

Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...


And who are you or those guys to put a whole civilization in question?
RE: Church of Reality by mad_onion on 02-12-2005 at 01:58 PM

this is the problem i have with the bible it always seems to be "we dont have any proof that god exists, he just does" and then the only way to get people to believe in him is to say "oh by the way if you dont believe he might send jesus to kill you and you wont get into heaven. its trying to scare people. and it is the weak minded people who are fooled.
i live in the Uk and it isnt a very good country but i like it cause it has one of the lowest belief rates of any place in the world. it means i dont have to put up with so many stupid people


RE: Church of Reality by Jhrono on 02-12-2005 at 02:13 PM

i think it's all based in ur education...like all my family is catholic and i was educated like that and trully believe it...maybe Plusfan had the right to choose what he wanted to follow and he developed other opinions...but i still believe in god above everything..


RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 03:08 PM

That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it :P I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism :)


RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-12-2005 at 03:13 PM

How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...


RE: Church of Reality by Jhrono on 02-12-2005 at 03:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism

:@ i Wasnt forced!! i can quit if i want!it was my option to continue what people thaught me...!!there's no obligation...i think you are a true result of a education named " let it go and he knows how to choose.."...that type of education allways goes wrong...just a last phrase...U DONT NEED TO BE DIFERENT TO BE ACCEPTED...got it?...oh and i second trax when he said :
quote:
Originally posted by traxor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people


Oh and talking about being forced...it seems to me that thats what you are doing to us..u are forcing us to believe something that isnt correct in our way of thinking...Your persuading us to be different...i also agree with trax...this thread is useless...
RE: Church of Reality by Menthix on 02-12-2005 at 05:45 PM

quote:
The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, believing in everything that is real. Our motto is, "If it's real, we believe in it."
Racism, war, torturing... those are real things as well, but do i want to "believe in it"?

quote:
Sheep - People who let others do their thinking for them. People who are not in control of what they believe in. People who have not taken personal responsibility to question their faith. People who refuse to ask the Sacred Question - "What is Real?" To be a sheep is to follow blindly a path where reality is excluded from the process.
Not to offend anyone, but i would feel like this kind of "sheep" when i start to believe in some religion found on the internet.

quote:
Born Again - Starting over from scratch after losing everything on your computer and having no data backups. (Being Born Again is not a good thing in the Church of Reality)
Since when is formatting your PC part of a religion :).

quote:
Sin - To introduce chaos or viruses into the Tree of Knowledge. To persecute explorers. To intimidate seekers of reality. To spread false and misleading information. To cause humanity to evolve in a negative direction.

quote:
The Holy TV Show - The Holy TV show is Star Trek. Star Trek is the Holy TV show because it is a show that envisions a future where we have evolved in a positive direction towards a future that is better than the one we have today. In Star Trek we have put our race and national differences behind us and we have united together as one planet to reach out into the universe and make peaceful contact with other life forms that we find as we explore the universe. Star Trek inspires our imagination and causes us to become One with the Tree as our minds are led to contemplate the Holy Question - what will the future of the human race be?. Star Trek honors the Sacred Direction and the Principle of Positive Evolution as well as many other Sacred Principles of the Church of Reality.
:D

quote:
The Sacred Network - The Sacred Network is Internet. Also known as the "Golden Router" or "Sacred Router". It is the technology where we communicate - exchange idea - store our history - and make information available so that we as a race can grow together and explore reality as it really is.
:D:P

quote:
The Sacred Joke - There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary - and those who don't.

Alright, i'll stop. All quotes came from the site, more funny quotes there.
RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-12-2005 at 05:48 PM

This is the most hilarious site on the internet, its basically a mass cult of geeks, thats all I'm saying.


RE: Church of Reality by mad_onion on 02-12-2005 at 05:52 PM

lol yes the religion of reality does seem strange but no stranger than Christianity. some guy up in the sky that does everytihng and can kill thousands of people in minutes if he wants to seems strange to me.
but yeah i think they should just be left alone, no one is going to change a religious persons mind. i know for a fact no one could make me believe in god because it seems silly to me.
i say again religion is only there so that people think that when they die they will go somewhere when in fact they will just rot in the ground.


RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 05:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So, thekid, do you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that it's correct? Because there are a *lot* of translation issues with it. This is a nice article about it.
Yes, I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. We have a *lot* of "translation issues" with it, but it affects no major doctrine.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it :P I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism :)
Same here.
I was raised without any religion background. My parents did not force me to get one either. They only taught me moral.
I bet your parents taught you so, like stealing is bad, and so on.
quote:
Originally posted by traxor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...
Yes, I think the whole idea of this thread is just an advertisement.

For me, the Church of Reality just wants to unite all atheists in the world into one "religion."
And maybe some atheists still might not like the idea of it.
If you read an article in the site that PlusFan gave us, you'll notice that these people somewhat believe the existence of God, but they want to see it with their own eyes.
I don't mean to offend these people, but they are weak.
If you really don't believe that God exists, say it.
A real atheist once said that even if he saw the empty tomb of his own eyes, he would never believe the existence of God.

What I comprehend from CoR's stand is that they will believe the existence of God if God shows Himself.
RE: RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 06:37 PM

quote:
Racism, war, torturing... those are real things as well, but do i want to "believe in it"?
You don't have to believe that's it's good, you just have to see the truth, and realise that there's still people being tortured, instead of denying that people are being tortured

quote:
Not to offend anyone, but i would feel like this kind of "sheep" when i start to believe in some religion found on the internet.

You would be a sheep if you believed it without questioning it

quote:
Since when is formatting your PC part of a religion :).

Since computers allow you to share knowledge.. see the tree of knowledge thing.

quote:
i say again religion is only there so that people think that when they die they will go somewhere when in fact they will just rot in the ground.

It isn't too strange, I think. I mean, would you rather like to rot in the ground or go to heaven and party with Jezus and all the people you know who have died? Easy choice...

The jokes in the terminology, are indeed funny:) But they don't mean Marc Perkel isn't serious about it

quote:
Originally posted by http://diary.churchofreality.org
It's 5 years old!

It was 5 years ago that the Church of Reality was born. At first it was just a humorous idea. I registered the domain name and started building the web site. As I wrote a lot of ideas came together. At first I wasn't sure that it would ever be a "real" religion because - like most people - I had the idea that in order to be a religion that you had to believe in things that aren't real. But that's not the way it is.

Religion is a statement of your identity and your belief system and how you evaluate truth. It is about your morals and ethics and your community. How you evaluate right and wrong. To identify with a religion is to associate yourself with a belief system. In society, it identifies you in the larger culture of people who care about those sorts of things.

Religious identity is important in society. Many wars are fought over religious issues - my God is stronger than your God. People want to know what religion you identify with so they can evaluate your moral code.

But - what of those who have no religion - or - not organized religion that matches their belief system? What is their religious identity? Are they a "nothing"? And what does that say about them. To be an Athiest is not a religion. An Athiest is merely someone who does not believe in God(s). So - what of someone who believes in reality? There is not church for them - until now.

The Church of Reality goes beyond a mere title. As I wrote about the Tree of Knowledge and Intelectual Tything and created the Order of Root and wrote the Sacred Principles it became apparent that I could in fact create a religion based on reality and perform the mission of being a religion without putting limits on reality and declaring arbetrary truths that become carved in stone and hold reality back from progressing.

The belief in Reality and the Practice of Realism is as rich and full as any other religion. It is unique and it is forward looking and it requires personal responsibility. It has all the elements of every other religion and then some. And I look back and I look forward and I think that this is an important step forward and a contribution to religious choice.

quote:
Yes, I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. We have a *lot* of "translation issues" with it, but it affects no major doctrine.
Actually, it *does*. And.. how can you be sure that the bible you're reading (the Christian) is the "good" one, and the ones the muslims and Jews read is (partly) false?

quote:
If you read an article in the site that PlusFan gave us, you'll notice that these people somewhat believe the existence of God, but they want to see it with their own eyes.
I don't mean to offend these people, but they are weak.
If you really don't believe that God exists, say it.
A real atheist once said that even if he saw the empty tomb of his own eyes, he would never believe the existence of God.

What I comprehend from CoR's stand is that they will believe the existence of God if God shows Himself.

It's like believing in aliens. There's no proof (yet?) that there are aliens. Some people know that they saw aliens, and are *absolutely* sure of it. They even take pictures of UFOs. However, I won't believe in aliens, untill I've seen proof. Which is logical. Same goes for God. There are people who believe God exists, but they have no real proof. I don't believe God exists. But if he shows up, I will admit that I was wrong and I will believe in God.

There used to be people who were absolutely sure the world is flat. They thought that you could reach the end, and then fall off. They thought that the theory of the world being round was rubbish. So they were aworldisroundists. Should they have sticked to their "the world isn't round" beliefs? No!
RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 07:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Actually, it *does*.
No, it doesn't. With all those various translations, they all say that salvation is by grace alone.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
And.. how can you be sure that the bible you're reading (the Christian) is the "good" one, and the ones the muslims and Jews read is (partly) false?
You know, reading the Bible and knowing that it is true are not the first thing. The first thing is believing. I honestly doubted it at first. I kept searching, did at least four months of research, and joined some religious mailing lists to find the base of the truth. I ended up becoming a Christian.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
It's like believing in aliens. There's no proof (yet?) that there are aliens. Some people know that they saw aliens, and are *absolutely* sure of it. They even take pictures of UFOs. However, I won't believe in aliens, untill I've seen proof. Which is logical. Same goes for God. There are people who believe God exists, but they have no real proof. I don't believe God exists. But if he shows up, I will admit that I was wrong and I will believe in God.
So, what's wrong believing something that is unseen? That's called faith. Again, my friend, it will be too late by the time you believe in God if you keep on your stand.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
There used to be people who were absolutely sure the world is flat. They thought that you could reach the end, and then fall off. They thought that the theory of the world being round was rubbish. So they were aworldisroundists. Should they have sticked to their "the world isn't round" beliefs? No!
lol
I think that they just missed that.
Yeah, that was one of the greatest fault that Old Roman Catholic church made.
They even home-prisoned Galileo Galilei who was a devoted believer.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" Isaiah 40:22.
Hmm... why isn't it the flatness of earth? Because it says so.

And if you are interested, the Old Roman Catholic church also thought (and think) that salvation was not by grace alone.
RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-12-2005 at 07:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
You would be a sheep if you believed it without questioning it


So that means we aren't sheep, I'm sure every one of us has questions our faith at one point...

it seems that site should be

The Church of Contradiction
RE: Church of Reality by Jhrono on 02-12-2005 at 07:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

It's like believing in aliens. There's no proof (yet?) that there are aliens


You dont have a bible written by people who lived with aliens from 2000 years ago and that has lasted until our days or have you?
RE: Church of Reality by fluffy_lobster on 02-12-2005 at 07:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I don't believe God exists. But if he shows up, I will admit that I was wrong and I will believe in God.
That kind of ethos shows true integrity.  However, if you really have such an open mind why are you attacking other people's beliefs?  You don't attain knowledge by trying to disprove things which don't fit into your personal ideal.
RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 08:47 PM

@fluffy_lobster: Because they *haven't* seen God.

thekid, is there a reason for God not to show up? I mean, if he showed up, he could get everybody to worship him, and he could unite the muslims and protestants and catholics so there would be no more "holy" wars.. :-/

Do you believe in Evolution?


RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 09:02 PM

Because He is waiting for you :)
God showed up in the world 2000 years ago, and many, many, and many people rejected Him, even until now.

Don't worry about Him, He will show up someday.
I believe He appreciates people who have not seen Him and believe Him more.

"Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" John 20:29


RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 09:31 PM

So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him :-/

And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!

If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays


RE: Church of Reality by Wabz on 02-12-2005 at 09:34 PM

:blah:

There is no spoon is the answer to this :P

Belief is there to give those without hope something to aim for :)

Well thats what I believe


RE: Church of Reality by DJeX on 02-12-2005 at 10:06 PM

quote:
Originaly Posted by: traxtor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...

I agree with traxtor here.


RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-12-2005 at 10:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him :-/
1. John is one of Jesus' disciples who faithfully followed Him.
    He was even mentioned that he is the closest person to Jesus.
2. When the event took place (in John 20:29), there were all Jesus' disciples.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?
:)
Exactly. Jesus was God who incarnated into human.
Honestly, I'm happy when you got this conclusion.
You know there are many people who cannot get this conclusion.
A good way of thinking for a 13-year old boy (Y).
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!
Hmm...
This would be a quite long explanation, but this is the core of Christianity.
From that passage, you see that how God hates sinners.
And we all are sinners.
Even if you only did one little mistake, you have sinned.
Because God wants a perfect score, just like you want a straight A on your report card, or you want a non-defect video game console.
You might say, "Oh, there's no way that I am sinner. I have not ever killed an ant."
But, if you know that you could help someone, but you don't help him/her, you have sinned. For example, you know your mom needs you to wash the dishes, but you don't want to do it, you have sinned.
That's why Jesus took our punishments that we should bear on the cross, and paid it full.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18
Of course not. Jesus was in human form. You drew the conclusion before.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues
What about it? What do you mean that they have another meaning?
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays
No, not at all.
Sabbath, if it is translated litterally from Hebrew, means Saturday. Jews and Some Christian observe Sabbath on Saturday while most of them observe it on Sunday as a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus.
Churches usually have both services on Saturdays and Sundays.
RE: RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-12-2005 at 10:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by thekid
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him :-/
1. John is one of Jesus' disciples who faithfully followed Him.
    He was even mentioned that he is the closest person to Jesus.
2. When the event took place (in John 20:29), there were all Jesus' disciples.
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?
:)
Exactly. Jesus was God who incarnated into human.
Honestly, I'm happy when you got this conclusion.
You know there are many people who cannot get this conclusion.
A good way of thinking for a 13-year old boy (Y).
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!
Hmm...
This would be a quite long explanation, but this is the core of Christianity.
From that passage, you see that how God hates sinners.
And we all are sinners.
So he hates us all? Then why doesn't he destroy the world :dodgy:
quote:
Even if you only did one little mistake, you have sinned.
Because God wants a perfect score, just like you want a straight A on your report card, or you want a non-defect video game console.
You might say, "Oh, there's no way that I am sinner. I have not ever killed an ant."
But, if you know that you could help someone, but you don't help him/her, you have sinned. For example, you know your mom needs you to wash the dishes, but you don't want to do it, you have sinned.
That's why Jesus took our punishments that we should bear on the cross, and paid it full.
I wasn't talking about sin, but about sons paying the price for their fathers sin, which sounds ridiculous to me, but not to God. Therefore, I don't like God.

Something nice I once read at some atheists' site, was that Jezus' sacrifice isn't really much of a sacrifice. When he died, he went back to heaven. And heaven == :D, so for Jezus, dieing wasn't so bad. Now consider an atheist giving his life for someone else. Wouldn't that be a greater offer? The atheist goes to hell to burn forever, because he doesn't believe. Jezus can get back to living in the clouds.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18
Of course not. Jesus was in human form. You drew the conclusion before.
You just said, Jezus == God. So by seeing Jezus, you see God, since they're one and the same person according to you.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues
What about it? What do you mean that they have another meaning?

From the list, select another bible. Alot of the texts are different.

quote:
Originally posted by New international version
13 "The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,

    but they cannot compare with the pinions and feathers of the stork.

    14 She lays her eggs on the ground

    and lets them warm in the sand,

quote:
Originally posted by new american standard bible

      13"The ostriches' wings flap joyously
         With the pinion and plumage of [a]love,

   
   
      14For she abandons her eggs to the earth
         And warms them in the dust,

quote:
Originally posted by the message
13"The ostrich flaps her wings futilely--

    all those beautiful feathers, but useless!

    14She lays her eggs on the hard ground,

    leaves them there in the dirt, exposed to the weather,

quote:
Originally posted by amplified bible
13The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, [but] are they the pinions and plumage of love?

    14The ostrich leaves her eggs on the ground and warms them in the dust,

quote:
Originally posted by new living translation
13"The ostrich flaps her wings grandly, but they are no match for the feathers of the stork. 14She lays her eggs on top of the earth, letting them be warmed in the dust.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays
No, not at all.
Sabbath, if it is translated litterally from Hebrew, means Saturday. Jews and Some Christian observe Sabbath on Saturday while most of them observe it on Sunday as a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus.
Churches usually have both services on Saturdays and Sundays.


Yes, but my father, when he was a kid, had to go to school at Saturdays. Since ~90% of the Dutch population (just a guess, I have no stats) was Christian back then, they were doing something wrong by going to school at Saturdays
RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-13-2005 at 12:31 AM

I only had to read the first 7 posts before I was thinking "is this kid for real?"

First off, that site looks like it was made by some high school kid that just started learning HTML. 

Second, if your saying all you believe in is whats real, then what did you mean by this?

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

I like the part "...some things are just too big for us humans..."

See, if you believe that, and its a part of this religion (cult), it totally contridicts itself.  This religion "The Church Of Reality" is saying, if its not real, you dont beleive in it.  So if you cant see it, smell it, or taste it, its not real.  This religion "believing what is real", means only believing in what you see, that we as humans should 100% understand what we see and know its true. That is the total Oppisate of having things in this world that are too big for us as humans.  Now either YOU dont know what your talkign about(maybe cause your 13 and I highly doubt you even have rational and logical thinking skills), or this religion is made up (prob by some LSD user(just like the guy who started the Jahova Witnesses))

Before I go on, I want to read what you have to say about that. 
RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-13-2005 at 12:34 AM

Pr0xy, what did I tell you, seriously...

Plus! Fan, all I have to say is:

Think outside the box ;).


RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-13-2005 at 12:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by traxor
Think outside the box ;).
Exectly, and thats why I am confused and confident that he himself doesn't understand what he is believing.  He says that there are bigger things in this world then we as humans can understand, but yet, that is the complete oppisate of what that religion says is "true". 

RE: Church of Reality by user27089 on 02-13-2005 at 12:49 AM

He sounds to me like the guy on the chat station of Grand Theft Auto: III when there is a guy saying stuff like:

"theres a march, people need a voice, everybodies going to be there"...

but in the end, you never find out what the hell he's talking about, but people go anyway, its just curiosity...

what did curiosity kill?


RE: Church of Reality by dotNorma on 02-13-2005 at 12:49 AM

So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion. :-/

Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.


RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-13-2005 at 12:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by NoName
Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.
Indeed.  I would have closed this thread after reading the first post...

The amount of bullshit that this religion feeds people could fill up my hosts bandwidth...

RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-13-2005 at 02:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Leo
To me, Christianity is a very contradicting thing. And Christians... First they go on about love and being nice to everyone, and then they are against gays, condoms (I mean, we're in 2005! there's AIDS that can be prevented by using condoms!), abort, etc, etc.
Christianity is not contridicting.  and neither is a true Christian that lives his or her life with faith.  A Christian who believes that abortions are wrong(as a form of birth control, not if you were raped), being gay or lesbian is wrong, are not being contradicting.  It says in the bible that those are wrong.  And condoms... O_o well its not the Christians that say condoms are wrong, its the Catholics that said that, along with numerous other things that are not in the bible. 

If your going to hate on somethin, hate on it with the right info ;)

RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-13-2005 at 11:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD
It was written in 80-95 AD. So the write, John, who was Jesus' disciple, was still alive. And the last book in Bible written in 96.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

Mind if I add the same "fact" like the passage you gave and even it is more "powerful" to show that Jesus is not God?
Take a look at John 14:28.
Whoa, Jesus even said, "the Father is greater than I."

In His humanity, Jesus had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Hebrew 2:9). In the state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He said that when He was in human form.

Satan was an angel, a fallen angel to be exact, named Lucifer. Actually, he was also an archangel, the highest order among all angels, along with Michael and Gabriel.

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I wasn't talking about sin, but about sons paying the price for their fathers sin, which sounds ridiculous to me, but not to God. Therefore, I don't like God.

Something nice I once read at some atheists' site, was that Jezus' sacrifice isn't really much of a sacrifice. When he died, he went back to heaven. And heaven == :D, so for Jezus, dieing wasn't so bad. Now consider an atheist giving his life for someone else. Wouldn't that be a greater offer? The atheist goes to hell to burn forever, because he doesn't believe. Jezus can get back to living in the clouds.
Of course it is ridiculous to you. Sometimes it is ridiculous to me too. And I still think that you did not give a nice example how "ridiculous" God is.
Here we go.
Jesus even cursed a tree.
Did the tree make any mistake? You know the answer.
Why do you, or we, think that it is ridiculous?
Because our minds have been distorted with sin.
We see things with our own values, not God's which are holy.

There's a huge, giant, enermous, gigantic difference between Jesus giving His life and an atheist does the same.

Jesus is holy. He took the punishments on our place.
What does an atheist give his/her life for?
He is also a sinner. All of us are sinners.

If a serial murder saved you from bullets, were you gonna worship him?
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
You just said, Jezus == God. So by seeing Jezus, you see God, since they're one and the same person according to you.
Correct.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
From the list, select another bible. Alot of the texts are different.
Wow, you did your homework, didn't you?
You don't need to give a certain verse, because almost all words are different depending on the versions.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

Yes, but my father, when he was a kid, had to go to school at Saturdays. Since ~90% of the Dutch population (just a guess, I have no stats) was Christian back then, they were doing something wrong by going to school at Saturdays

I believe all policies in your country belong to your country.
I think I said it clearly that most Christians observe Sunday as Sabbath. Don't you think the other ~10% might be in the board also?

Btw, it's "Jesus," not "Jezus."
You should value other's name by writing it correctly because you have known which one is the right one.
quote:
Originally posted by NoName
Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.
Exactly. That's why I am only answering his questions to give him more information.

Edit:Oops, forgot to answer your another question
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So he hates us all? Then why doesn't he destroy the world :dodgy:
lol
He would have done long long time ago if He wanted it.
You know the Flood, don't you?
He did it once (destroying all things), but He promised He would never do that again.
RE: RE: Church of Reality by user2319 on 02-13-2005 at 04:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
I only had to read the first 7 posts before I was thinking "is this kid for real?"

First off, that site looks like it was made by some high school kid that just started learning HTML. 

Second, if your saying all you believe in is whats real, then what did you mean by this?
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

With that I meant that johny's argument
quote:
Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...
Was crap, because the same goes for aliens and talking trees
quote:

I like the part "...some things are just too big for us humans..."

See, if you believe that, and its a part of this religion (cult), it totally contridicts itself.  This religion "The Church Of Reality" is saying, if its not real, you dont beleive in it.  So if you cant see it, smell it, or taste it, its not real.  This religion "believing what is real", means only believing in what you see, that we as humans should 100% understand what we see and know its true. That is the total Oppisate of having things in this world that are too big for us as humans.  Now either YOU dont know what your talkign about(maybe cause your 13 and I highly doubt you even have rational and logical thinking skills), or this religion is made up (prob by some LSD user(just like the guy who started the Jahova Witnesses))

Before I go on, I want to read what you have to say about that. 


quote:
quote:
Originally posted by NoName
So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion. :-/
No, it's not. If you don't believe in religion, that doesn't mean you believe in reality :-/

quote:
Originally posted by thekid
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD
It was written in 80-95 AD. So the write, John, who was Jesus' disciple, was still alive. And the last book in Bible written in 96.
Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

Mind if I add the same "fact" like the passage you gave and even it is more "powerful" to show that Jesus is not God?
Take a look at John 14:28.
Whoa, Jesus even said, "the Father is greater than I."

In His humanity, Jesus had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Hebrew 2:9). In the state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He said that when He was in human form.

Satan was an angel, a fallen angel to be exact, named Lucifer. Actually, he was also an archangel, the highest order among all angels, along with Michael and Gabriel.

So you're saying that Jesus was God, but he somehow took away his power so that he was lower than an angel? O_o Then he wouldn't be going back to the father, but then he would become the father again. To me it sounds llike Jesus wasn't the "son of God", or he denied he was on purpose.. but why would he do that?

quote:
If a serial murder saved you from bullets, were you gonna worship him?
No, but I was talking about Jesus. Jesus was on Earth. But everyone knows that heaven is nicer than earth. Right? So if you were on earth, you'd prefer to be in heaven.. right? So when Jesus went to heaven, that was a good thing for him, because heaven is nice. Jesus knew he was going to heaven. So dying wasn't such a bad thing for him. Do you agree?

Therefore, I don't see why it's so heroic of him to die "for our sins". Someone who would go to hell, and knew it, would prefer to stay on earth.

quote:
All of us are sinners.
Then what's the purpose? We are going to burn in hell anyway :D

quote:
Wow, you did your homework, didn't you?
You don't need to give a certain verse, because almost all words are different depending on the versions.
So how do you know which one is "correct" and "the word of god"?
quote:
Btw, it's "Jesus," not "Jezus."
You should value other's name by writing it correctly because you have known which one is the right one.
Sorry, in Dutch it's with a "z"

quote:
He did it once (destroying all things), but He promised He would never do that again.
And why would he keep his promise? Noone is regulating him
RE: RE: RE: Church of Reality by Weyzza on 02-14-2005 at 03:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?
I can fully trust it, because it is God's work.
See, you think with your earthly perspective. Earthly logic.
God is all powerful. He can do everything He want to do.
Don't you think that it is easy for God if He wanted to forgive everything we've done by just saying some words?

He only wants people who believe in Him to join with Him in Heaven.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So you're saying that Jesus was God, but he somehow took away his power so that he was lower than an angel? O_o Then he wouldn't be going back to the father, but then he would become the father again. To me it sounds llike Jesus wasn't the "son of God", or he denied he was on purpose.. but why would he do that?
Because God is love.
He incarnated and gave an example for people too.
He knows what it feels to be a human (Hebrew 4:15).

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
No, but I was talking about Jesus. Jesus was on Earth. But everyone knows that heaven is nicer than earth. Right? So if you were on earth, you'd prefer to be in heaven.. right? So when Jesus went to heaven, that was a good thing for him, because heaven is nice. Jesus knew he was going to heaven. So dying wasn't such a bad thing for him. Do you agree?

I agree dying wasn't such a bad thing for Him, but the process was. Literally.
Just watch The Passion of Christ.
Jesus' burden was to take all sin people do.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan

Therefore, I don't see why it's so heroic of him to die "for our sins". Someone who would go to hell, and knew it, would prefer to stay on earth.
But how long would someone live on earth?
One is either going to heaven or hell for eternity.
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Then what's the purpose? We are going to burn in hell anyway :D
No, if you believe in Him.

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
So how do you know which one is "correct" and "the word of god"?
All of them are correct, unless ones that have been changed for the purpose of a group.

What makes them different?
The translations can be separated into 2 groups, the formal equivalence ones (word-by-word translation) and the dynamic equivalence ones (phrase-by-phrase translation).

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
Sorry, in Dutch it's with a "z"
Sorry, I didn't know that :)

quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
And why would he keep his promise? Noone is regulating him
Because He wanted to.

PlusFan, I think you just choose not to believe everything with Christianity. But, I'm happy because I think we are moving on from one topic to another, that means you accept it.

If you choose to go to hell, it's your choice.
I hope we can meet in heaven though.

lol
This thread is way out-of-topic now.
The title should be Q&A about Christianity by now.

PlusFan, do you want a more effective way of learning Christianity? Just ask someone who can communicate face-to-face with you. I just think that asking and getting the answer from posts are not effective enough.
RE: Church of Reality by L. Coyote on 02-14-2005 at 03:29 AM

Random thought of the day: I think we're all free to believe in whatever we want to believe.


RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-14-2005 at 04:08 AM

PlusFan, I saw in your posts you had alot of questions about how Jesus could be God, and the Holy Spirit. If you are truly interested in how that is possible, read the NIV Bible. 


RE: Church of Reality by Purity on 02-14-2005 at 05:03 AM

Erm, I talking about church and Jesus gives me a Vibe... :|


RE: Church of Reality by FrozernFire on 02-14-2005 at 01:27 PM

today my class had some argument over constantine and god :dodgy:. well i only have to tell you this, if you say that you are a (---------)(fill in religion), you have to understand it deeply. for example, to be a christian (just a example, this applies to all religions), you have to understand the bible, not just read through. and you need to understand it wholely. it's no use just knowing half your religion, you might as well believe in non.
i believe in no religion, just to let you know


RE: Church of Reality by Pr0xY on 02-14-2005 at 02:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FrozernFire
you need to understand it wholely. it's no use just knowing half your religion, you might as well believe in non.
That is true.  To many people call themselfs a certain religion when in reality they are just fallowing some of the rules, not not the others.  This is why religion has gotten distorted and givin a bad name.

I can not believe that some people would go for a religion that was made in 1960's by a LSD user, but not one the oldest one and most proved one. 

Anyways, a mod really should close this thread now.  I think religion is one topic that should stay off this forum, it just causes to many problems because people are affraid to open their eyes and look outside of the box.