Hello everyone,

I'm back from my vacation, I'm sick and my web site is still down . However, it's good to see all the support you continue to give me and I thank you for that. I plan to continue working on the final release of Messenger Plus! during next weeks and, even if I'm reading your suggestions, keep in mind that there won't be much (but still, there will be some) new features for the final. I prefer to concentrate on bugs in order to give you a good and professional software, reliable, that you can trust and that do not crash Messenger in any circumstances (talking about that, I would really appreciate if you could participate to the poll, it's more important that you could imagine).

I'm now asking for your help for two things. The first one concerns my server patchou.com. As you have seen, it is down for 3 weeks now and it's hurting Messenger Plus! in different ways. I've tried to pay a lot of money to get a good server back online (by the way, I give BIG THANKS to www.superwebhost.com for their understanding and support.. if you search a host, sign-up with them) while I was in France but it did no good. For that reason, I would like all of you to carefull read this request and talk to your friends about it if you think they could help: the reason why patchou.com is down is a combination of the populary of Messenger Plus! and my stupidity . As you may know, Messenger Plus! 2.0 has an auto-update feature that is supposed to connect every week on patchou.com to see if a new version is available. However, when the connection cannot be done, the software tried again after 5 minutes, again and again... since the release of the first beta, I estimate about 200,000 people downloaded the new version which is fantastic but which also causes a big problem... patchou.com being down, about 40,000 people every minute try to connect to check for an update, which means that I can't put the server back online with any host... it would instantly flood their server and ban me from their services. For that reason, as I cannot pay $200/month for a robust server, I'm asking anyone who can to lend me a portion of his servers for two or three days. My plan is simple: find a reboust server that can host patchou.com for a very short time; inform everyone that an update for Messenger Plus! is available; this update will simply deactivate auto-udpdate once for all; after most people are upgraded, I'll be able to put back my own server safely without risking any problem. So I do not need much bandwidth but a server that can accept a big number of hits during a few hours. If you know anyone that can help, please ask them to send me a private message on this forum. As soon as it's done, a lot of my problems willl be solved and I'll be able to resume the development of Messenger Plus!.

Wow... big post... so I'll be quick for my second requerst: I would like one of the moderators to send me an email (you're supposed to have my email if you're a mod ) with a lot of all the bugs (only those who make sense of course) reported since Messenger Plus! 2.00 was released along with the associated post texts and, very important, the emails of the people who reported the bug of confirmed it (dont be afraid everyone, your email is accessible only by the moderators of this forum). The reason for that is that I have to have a direct conversation with all these people in order to be able to solve the bugs. Please do that as soon as you can (for the end of the week, it would be perfect! ).

I'll wait for your news about the server... again, it's very important to me. Thank you everyone, I hope you enjoy Messenger Plus! 2.00 .

Patchou.

Just a small comment... moderators can't see e-mail address', just admins on the admin cp.

Someone give me a list of user IDs or usernames of the bug reporters, and I'll get the addresses from the DB. Note that it's possible to lie about your address, as the board isn't set to verify them.

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40,000 people every minute

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Well.... The server the forums are on you could hold both of us if we payed to upgrade the ram and you wanted to help pay for the server, Just PM me for more information.

That sounds like a good solution, but are you SURE it will handle THAT many connections?

Anyway, if it would get to much you could always temponary shutdown the Plus! forum temponary, just as long as needed for people to upgrade.... in 2 or 3 days the heaviest load will be gone i think.


Wj, what are the specs of this server right now? (CPU/memory/HD/bandwith/datalimit)... just curious.
And how many more RAM do you need / how expensive?


The Plus! site being hosted on this site will be nice, it's been prety stable last couple of months

BTW, Patchou, what are your plans a updating.... no auto-update at all anymore? It took you so much work to create it Whatever you do, i don't think you should get rid of it completely...
Maybe wj's server can keep auto-update alive forever? or some other offer...? Maybe sponsered hosting??? I think there will be some hosting provider intrested in sponsering auto-update... if you just give the user a single webpage after each update of Plus! with a nice advertisment for the hosting company.
All the hosting company needs todo is host auto-update on a stable machine for a low price, and they'll get 100 of thuosands views each time a user installs/updates Plus!



And if you're not continuing auto-update at all, will there be something else? I was thinking of a mailinglist... that shouldn't be that hard to handle risght?

Hmm... what happened to SonicBoom's post that said the server would never be able to handle the load?

It's a pretty old machine... I doubt it would do the job...

Maybe once the number of auto-update hits goes down, it can be safely re-enabled? You could change the 5 minute interval too, to avoid this problem in the future...

Reading WDZ's reply.... hmmmmm..... that 5 minute interval is the main problem? I see....


Yeah, that definitly needs to be fixed.... why not change it to something like: If it can't connect to the server: Let it retry in an randomly choosen amount of X minutes. The value of X should then be randomly choosen between somthing like 180 and 720 minutes.

If you do it something like that, then all the users won't be checking for an update at the SAME time.

I guess the same think should be done for the FIRST check after each install/updrade... don't let EVERYONE check after exactly 7 days, but let it differ for everybody... choose a random date from 7 up to 10 days for the FIRST check after each install/upgrade.
The second and all other checks CAN be done for everybody in exactly seven days after the check that was before that one.


All this to avoid too many people accesing you system at the same moment on your server.



But, whatever you do, you need a new update to get it working first.... i guess you could make that update and then let me and other people announce it on the big MSN sites first and then wait a week BEFORE making auto-update alive, that should make much diffrence.
After all... *none* of the people having installed MP2 now got it trough auto-update or patchou.com... THEY ALL got it from the big msn related sites and other news sites... so lets try to distribute the update the exact same way, then after a week or so kick in the auto-update


* Menthix realy hopes auto-update stays part of Plus!

Remove the auto-update? NO!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME!!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT US?!?!?!?
Uhmhm.... Yeah. Anyway. I think resetting it to check for updates at one-week intervals will fix it all (5 minutes, what were you thinking?!?). Instead of having each MP2 user connect to your server 2016 times a week, they'll connect only once. So if you have 200,000 users (), that's 200,000 connections a week instead of 403,200,000!! Now the only problem is, what happens when there actually IS an update?

BTW, making the above calculation in seconds, it turns out 666 users connecting each second! That's with the 5-seconds intervals that is.... and 1 connection every 3 seconds with one-week intervals (wow that's still a lot!!).

BTW2, Jae, people wanna know if you still need more translators....

ANYCOW!! Happy birthday Patchou! and get well soon! and stuff!

Okie, hope I didn't forget anything.... (It's bad to post without saying much ya know, it's considered spamming and stuff...)

Okie bye.

The update check interval isn't 5 minutes in normal situations... only when MP can't connect. When it can connect, I think it checks every 2 days.

umm maybe, you can somehow put the update feature on sourceforge but it would just require some editing of the update code... i think

Ever heard of load balancing on multiple servers, once one server reaches its load the request is diverted to another one by the dns server until it reaches its load...etc (please remember we have 3 servers here (One zeonhost one)

Hey, no worries about traffic from here...

5 minutes is longer than I get on messenger when I run plus most of the time.

Sadly, I had to pull it off my machine.. reinstalling didn't help for long (oddly, it did work for a bit)...

But uh, basically, if you can't reach the server, don't try again till the next regularilly scheduled check, it's probably soon enough...

It retries every 5 minutes... in normal situation, it is supposed to check only once a week... the reason why I want to remove this feature, even if I worked hard on it, is that even by checking once a week, it will make several 100,000 connections every week... on a shared server such as the one that will host patchou.com, it is impossible and I don't want to buy a dedicated server anymore because of all the related problems. For the workload, remember that it would be a one time shot.... even if the server has difficulties the first day for example, still, a lot of people will be able to download the update file so the work load will decrease quickly. If Im in the mood, I'll release this update this evening in fact, that way it will prevent new users to add to the current count .

* Patchou just returned from the shower with an idea!
What I may do is the following: change this stupid 5 minute retry into something more intelligent and direct the auto-update connection to another domain which I'm going to register this evening. That was so simple.... the benefit of this is that as long as the domain does not directs to a server, the connection will just fail and nobody will be hurt. Then, when I want people to be updated, I only have to find someone kind enough to lend me some of its server bandwidth for some weeks! at that point, the 5minute bug will have been corrected so the auto-update file could for example be put on mess.be (that's a supposition, just an example) and the auto-update domain just setup to forward to mess.bet for one month, then just reset it untill the next update.

Dont know if I'm clear, I gotta go to work.... but anyway, I'll release a patched version soon soon soon because I need my server back.

Patchou

How about creating an MS Passport (lets call it msgplusupdate@hotmail.com, for example).  MsgPlus! itself could then send a "Message" in the background to this passport account in a particular format at random intervals (as already discussed) which effectively asks if an update exists.

You could then have some software running on a server which would receive all such requests as a message, and if an update existed, it could send a URL in a message back to the user's version of MsgPlus! which it would interpret as a message to itself (for security reasons it would need to check the username, not just the contents of the message) and then fetch the file and initiate an update.

The URLs that are sent back could be any one of a number held in a DB which are mirror sites hosting the update file.  Indeed you could even have more than one MS Passport set up in this way, and MsgPlus! would randomly pick one to ask, reducing the message count to any one individually.

Be kind to me, its my first post here ever!

Dave Mager,
London, UK.

That's a good idea too but it would require much more coding that I'm willing to put in the feature now... still, thank you, I'll keep it in mind

how mutch bandwith will it cost to only lend my server for a week or so?

keep in mind if it is to mutch i even can't internet because everything is connected to a singel ADSL line

or use loadbalancing with that "new domain" idee of your patchou...
i could lend you some space then..

if you find another 5 that are willing to lend some space / bandwith... and you should use loadbalancing with an "temporary domain" it would not cause alot of bandwith usage on any single server, and everybody will get the updates soon...

i hope i am clear enough ... if you have any questions just ask...
Sorry for my bad English

Exactly how big is the downloaded file for auto-update?

The file for the auto-update is the setup itself, it's 1Mb... but dont worry about it, downloading the setup file is, for now, not a problem... it's supporting the big number of hits to download the auto-update text file (which informs the software about the lastest version number) which is a problem.

Why not write a program for linux which can rotate the DNS record between several servers a day (DNS records should in theory only take the maximum of 90 seconds to update) all you have to do is collect the ip addresses of the servers you want to update off and load them up

i was thinking about DNS-Round-Robin  (it is in the name )

then you add to one DNS record more IP adresses
and DNS gives oud diferent IPs to diferent clients

Yeah the guru at my local college mentioned it a few months ago and it came into my head.

i just came over the word when talking with some friends from college (we all studie something with programming, networking and that sort of things)

Patchou, please check your private messages when you have a chance..

Thanks dude

As long as the new version with the new domain doesn't check every 5 minutes you should be fine....
how about once a week or once a month... (just change the minutes)

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Originally posted by xepol
As long as the new version with the new domain doesn't check every 5 minutes you should be fine....
how about once a week or once a month... (just change the minutes)

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yes of course, but I think you should read again my original message.

this is possibly the best dedicated server cost I've ever seen for a month http://www.34sp.com/dedicated.shtml bandwidths expandable and the service is reliable 34sp is also a very good hosting company which hosts my site likethat.org.uk hope this a help

Oh yeah you could do an commericial imagine if every msgplus user paid patchou a £1 or a $1 then all users could have all this extra

OK, after talking with patchou, the server issue has basically been resolved..

The new server should be up within the coming week.

Well, Ive got an idea...

Since we all seem to be reallysupportive, why don't we have a p2p situation going on?

I'd volunteer for that...
If you get enough, say about 1000+ people volunteering and set up Plus only to check for updates at a certain hour of the day on each time zone (Example, People in EST get checks between 5:00 and 6:00 in EST then when it is 5:00 in the time zone over, EST stops checking and the next time zone starts) the server load would be much less, and if it is in p2p mode, then 1000 or less could leave their computers on, becuase most of us do anyways and the you can have a multiple servers regulate the connections. Example, All connection requests from North America and South America can be directed at server A, Western Europe at server B, and so on...

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Originally posted by surfichris
OK, after talking with patchou, the server issue has basically been resolved..

The new server should be up within the coming week.

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Originally posted by Patchou
Hello everyone,

However, when the connection cannot be done, the software tried again after 5 minutes, again and again... since the release of the first beta, I estimate about 200,000 people downloaded the new version which is fantastic but which also causes a big problem... patchou.com being down, about 40,000 people every minute try to connect to check for an update, which means that I can't put the server back online with any host...

*snip*

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So.... Auto-Update stays living for now? Is that right?

Wheeeeeee

Isn't there a switch in the registry or something to turn off the auto-update? I think that would lighten the pressure, since some/many of us who read the forums can then turn it off for the first day or so...
In case of emergency, I could host your site. The thing is, I don't have any experience in hosting, except FTP, at all. I would need to set up a server program and some help with configuring it. I'm on a 10Mbit connection and run a P4 2.0GHz computer with 512MB DDR RAM.

***edit = spelling

Yes, auto-update stays alive in the software . As lon as I'll be able to find good servers to handle it it will work fine and in no case, it will bother my main patchou.com server anymore. New release: this WE!

hmm it does seem strange.  he's probably a personal friend of Patchou's.  He may well be a much better admin than someone with 500 posts.

I don't think there's a real need for the retry feature - so what if less dedicated Plus fans have to wait another week?  I'm sure there must be a multiple server solution.  How about users automatically get assigned a random server address so that each one gets a small share of users and we don't have to specifically configure the servers to any round-robin situation etc.

Well that's my idea

Sorry. i cant Help. Gr8 wuRk.
Nice Job.
Hope you had a good holiday.
First time poster, Long time reader,
extcee

Why not release an update of MsgPlus that contains "some-smarter-auto-update-feature" so that those numerous sites that provide mirrors of the MsgPlus program can spread it.
I guess that this new release could spread rather fast so that the traffic to the update site could decrease significantly...

Just my 2 cents...

Ps. my contribution to the rise and future IM-domination of MsgPlus is to run only version 1.42b
- until "some-smarter-auto-update-feature" will be available
(...and convince my friends to do the same).

That's what going to be done this WE

I need that patch...... I dont want to let Patchou's server to be down.... Patchou, hurry up Making a patch that "kills" the auto-update until you have your solution (or others solutions) worked out...

About the auto-update function: LOCALIZE!

Make the user choose from setup where he lives [for instance the UK] and then make it look for auto-updates on a random UK server...

I can hear you say: 'then wat about servers that are down or not working?'

Simple: Make the program look for the nearest server and make it connect there...

No need to remove the auto-update

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Originally posted by Freeze
About the auto-update function: LOCALIZE!

Make the user choose from setup where he lives [for instance the UK] and then make it look for auto-updates on a random UK server...

I can hear you say: 'then wat about servers that are down or not working?'

Simple: Make the program look for the nearest server and make it connect there...

No need to remove the auto-update

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quote:

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Originally posted by PlusFan

quote:

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Originally posted by Freeze
About the auto-update function: LOCALIZE!

Make the user choose from setup where he lives [for instance the UK] and then make it look for auto-updates on a random UK server...

I can hear you say: 'then wat about servers that are down or not working?'

Simple: Make the program look for the nearest server and make it connect there...

No need to remove the auto-update

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yeah! thats what I call a gr8 idea

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Such a "force on startup" option is already available as of 2.01(.17). It is an always invisible feature, which forces Plus to run before Messenger.

Greetz

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Originally posted by [white]shark
Such a "force on startup" option is already available as of 2.01(.17). It is an always invisible feature, which forces Plus to run before Messenger.

Greetz

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MSG PLUS or msn HAS NEVER CRASHED ON ME!!!!


=D =D =D NICE WORK!

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Originally posted by da_unruled
MSG PLUS or msn HAS NEVER CRASHED ON ME!!!!


=D =D =D NICE WORK!

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