I was reading an article today and compared it to an article I saw a while ago and I think this is odd.

Sony has confirmed the Plastation 3 will use Blue-Ray discs which are the same size as a standard CD/DVD, but are read with a blue laser and can hold 23GB of data on 1 layer, 46GB on two, but Microsoft has stated that the next generation Xbox (Xenon) will use the standard DVD format which can only hold 4.4GB on 1 layer, 8.8GB on two.


I tell you now - if PS3 has a disc with 46GB of max data and the Xenon has one with a max of 8.8 then I'm going with the PS3 - no doubt!

IMHO DVD is a big mistake on Microsoft's part.

Isn't 8.8 gigabytes enough?

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Originally posted by WDZ
Isn't 8.8 gigabytes enough?

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Blu-Ray Disks are DVDs. :\

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Originally posted by blade
MMOG with every city on earth!

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Originally posted by Dane
Blu-Ray Disks are DVDs. :\

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Originally posted by blue-ray.com

<b>What is Blu-ray?</b>

Blu-ray, also known as Blu-ray Disc (BD) is the name of a next-generation optical disc format jointly developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a group of leading consumer electronics and PC companies (including Apple, Dell, Hitachi, HP, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson). The format was developed to enable recording, rewriting and playback of high-definition video (HD), as well as storing large amounts of data. A single-layer Blu-ray Disc can hold 25GB, which can be used to record over 2 hours of HDTV or more than 13 hours of standard-definition TV. There are also dual-layer versions of the discs that can hold 50GB.

While current optical disc technologies such as DVD, DVD±R, DVD±RW, and DVD-RAM use a red laser to read and write data, the new format uses a blue-violet laser instead, hence the name Blu-ray. Despite the different type of lasers used, Blu-ray products can easily be made backwards compatible through the use of a BD/DVD/CD compatible optical pickup and allow playback of CDs and DVDs. The benefit of using a blue-violet laser (405nm) is that it has a shorter wavelength than a red laser (650nm), which makes it possible to focus the laser spot with even greater precision. This allows data to be packed more tightly and stored in less space, so it's possible to fit more data on the disc even though it's the same size as a CD/DVD. This together with the change of numerical aperture to 0.85 is what enables Blu-ray Discs to hold 25GB/50GB.

With the rapid growth of HDTV, the consumer demand for recording HD programming is quickly rising. Blu-ray was designed with this application in mind and supports direct recording of the MPEG-2 TS (Transport Stream) used by digital broadcasts, which makes it highly compatible with global standards for digital TV. This means that HDTV broadcasts can be recorded directly to the disc without any quality loss or extra processing. To handle the increased amount of data required for HD, Blu-ray employs a 36Mbps data transfer rate, which is more than enough to record and playback HDTV while maintaining the original picture quality. In addition, by fully utilizing an optical disc's random accessing features, it's possible to playback video on a disc while simultaneously recording HD video.

Blu-ray is expected to replace VCRs and DVD recorders over the coming years, with the transition to HDTV. The format is also likely to become a standard for PC data storage and HD movies in the future.

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So in the future we are going to have Gama-ray disks?

0.001 nm well... lets make the math.

Dual Layer blu ray disks.
405 nm -------------- 50 GB
0.001 nm ------------ x.

x= 50*0.001/405 = 1.235x10 to the power of -4

Erm..  idont know whats wrong.. lol maybe lets make a stupid thing and : 50 x 405 / 0.001 = 20250000 Gbytes? Maybe its my math that is all forked up.. i dont know why it didnt work well.. maybe because its inverse porpotion ?.. oh well its just the sleep then

is that 6TB, 6PB or 6EB?

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/2332221

I searched and it says 500 petabytes.. so.. i think my math is really bad then

* Look at the first comment

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Originally posted by blade
It is for todays games, but think what you could do with 46!

You could have games that would almost never end!

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Originally posted by WDZ

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Originally posted by blade
It is for todays games, but think what you could do with 46!

You could have games that would almost never end!

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I doubt that games are mainly limited by how much you can fit on a disc... who's gonna program and design enough stuff to fill 46 GB?

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Hum.. ithink we can do it with a fucntion.. but i dont know how to put it on the calculator yet..

I've always dreamed of the kind of game that you can use/manipulate/wreck anything, like the real world....You can never have too much space in a game

but those 46gb discs are much more expensive than 8,8gb disc's
and i'd go for the cheaper one because why wud i need a 46gb disc if dont have anything to put on it to fill it all up

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Originally posted by Purity
I've always dreamed of the kind of game that you can use/manipulate/wreck anything, like the real world....You can never have too much space in a game

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Originally posted by SikStyles
but those 46gb discs are much more expensive than 8,8gb disc's
and i'd go for the cheaper one because why wud i need a 46gb disc if dont have anything to put on it to fill it all up

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Originally posted by http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-8900-0-10.html?forumID=104&threadID=50089&messageID=650803&start=-242

but as soon as mass production starts of the Blu Ray the price will drp down to within 10% of DVD's, which translates into about $1.50 to $3.00 more than what you pay for DVD's

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Originally posted by http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/blu-ray5.htm

The price is expected to drop as the format gains popularity. Blu-ray discs may also be initially more expensive than today's DVDs, but once demand grows and they can be mass-produced, manufacturers say the price will drop to within 10 percent of the price of current DVDs.

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Originally posted by http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/
Blue Ray FAQ]
The discs required to record high-definition video are priced at about 2,700 yen ($26) per disc. The explanation for the high retail prices is that the recorders are targetted for businesses and enthusiasts rather than regular consumers.

According to the Blu-ray Disc Association, the overall cost of manufacturing a Blu-ray Disc will in the end be no more expensive than producing a DVD.

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Lol its hard to believe that someone will waste their time to build a game with such big size. So i dont really care if its 40 gb or 8 gb. UNLESS games do get really big in size like you said blade.

Can you imagine how long it would take to code a 46 GB game

X-Box rocks anyway

(not that i have anything other than my PC )

Wouldnt that mean it couldnt play CD's then?

And theres not really that much point in having so much space, because it will take game dev's agers to make a game big enough. You'd be waiting like 7 years for one game

Sounds cool to me but...

Xenon > PS3

spec's wise, anyway, I'm sure that xbox games will still have several disks, microsoft can't be seen to be copying sony, probably why they're doing such a thing .

8.8gb will be more than enough, but I suppose having a wider ammount of space to work with could help some developers not feel so limited if they need to go to say 11gb (which is more likely than 46 ).
A 46GB game would probabally be like a holodeck or a virtual reality game...

the only real use that these BDs will have in the short term would be compilation games, i.e. 5 games on one BD.

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Originally posted by Anubis
8.8gb will be more than enough, but I suppose having a wider ammount of space to work with could help some developers not feel so limited if they need to go to say 11gb (which is more likely than 46 ).

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...If Microsoft maintains their decision i see some trouble for them...it's obvious that games with 46 Gb will pwn..just imagine...Most laptops don't have HD like that

But think at the moment it takes a while for decent games to be released, if the developers have 46gb to use, then games will take for ever to come out.

Maybe sticking to dvds is a business move by microsoft.

Less space -> shorter games -> games released quicker -> more sequels -> more liscencing money for MS

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Originally posted by saralk


Less space -> shorter games -> games released quicker -> more sequels -> more liscencing money for MS

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Originally posted by johny
after some time

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Maybe they are allready being done..Blah i think they'll take 2 years and somthing for each one..

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Originally posted by traxor

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Originally posted by johny
after some time

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But these games will take a long time to make, think about it, games usually take around 2 years to make, good games do anyway, maybe even longer, if they have to fill up such disks, then how much longer will it take . 4 years for 1 game by my count, around that time anyway, that would be with a large crew anyway.

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Originally posted by blade
If they were to take 1 extra year they could make a game with hundreds of levels.

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Originally posted by Anubis

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Originally posted by blade
If they were to take 1 extra year they could make a game with hundreds of levels.

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I doubt anyone will ever do this, I mean most games are just the right amount of length...when games seem to go on for ever and ever they become boring and tedious, unless they add a new edge to the game play and story every so often. As I said before, they're probably using the extra space for breathing room and to impress people that they are using some new cutting edge technology and even so rumours are going around (that have spread from people who understand all this to those who don't) that Sony games are a lot bigger and therefore better than any rival company, the kind of "bling" philosophy.

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Still, it would take them even longer to build the engine to fill such a capacity and make it live up to the standards of what the machine is worth would it not?

So games would take even longer to manufacture still.

Better Engines = Longer
More Levels = Even Longer.

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Originally posted by traxor
Still, it would take them even longer to build the engine to fill such a capacity and make it live up to the standards of what the machine is worth would it not?

So games would take even longer to manufacture still.

Better Engines = Longer
More Levels = Even Longer.

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But surely, the engines will be even better than the ones that are already made, you're basing your statistics on the engines that are being made in 2004-2005, I'm talking about engines in the future, better engines, great engines, the engines today are good, but still, the engines in the future will be great, completely and utterly amazing imo.

Dont u think the console games that we play now are good enough?? I still dont understand who will waste 4 years of their life just to make a game with 40 gb and then when they finish that the next best Console will come out.. Anyway when are these due? I mean the consoles

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Originally posted by traxor
But surely, the engines will be even better than the ones that are already made, you're basing your statistics on the engines that are being made in 2004-2005, I'm talking about engines in the future, better engines, great engines, the engines today are good, but still, the engines in the future will be great, completely and utterly amazing imo.

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Originally posted by Hobbes
Dont u think the console games that we play now are good enough?? I still dont understand who will waste 4 years of their life just to make a game with 40 gb and then when they finish that the next best Console will come out.. Anyway when are these due? I mean the consoles

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I'll be going with the PS3, look at Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. This has a new type of texturing, geotexturing, this allows walls and floors and any other thing to be 3D rather than the 2D walls we're all used to seeing in video games, I find it rather annoying that these days walls are still 2D. With the process of geotexturing takes not much longer, as far as I know, than the old 2D way.
Anyway as other People have said, 12 years ago the average HDD wasn't even 8.8GB, but now games like GTA: SA take up all that room, GTA: SA only took two years to make, the same as any other decent game,  whether it was 12 years ago or now. Texturing methods get better and faster, the ways of making the images get better and faster. Computers get better and faster.
It's a rapidly changing world, the way games are made changes, but the time it takes to make a good game hasn't changed all that much. So by the time the PS3 comes out there will have been many more advances in graphic producing, I'm sure, making it faster to make things than before. See my point?

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Originally posted by Macabre Wolf
12 years ago the average HDD wasn't even 8.8GB

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Originally posted by johny

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Originally posted by Macabre Wolf
12 years ago the average HDD wasn't even 8.8GB

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r u kiddin me?

I had (and have) a siemens nixford 133 Mhz from about 1995 or 94 and i think it had about 100 mb originally..

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Nah!...5 years ago phearps...

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Originally posted by johny
Nah!...5 years ago phearps...

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i didnt have that knowledge sorry..

Ok i just joined up to reply to this topic, as im interested in it .

Ok as was said before the average life of a console is 5-6 years, and so, taking current programming and graphical programmes into account, microsoft will neither gain or lose from sticking with the DVD format.

Theres a few things to take into consideration here:

1) Sony pretty much HAVE to incorporate Blu ray disks, as they were involved in the developement of it. Not incorporating it could be seen as not supporting there own product.

2) Blu ray is a new techknology, and sony will have to use new technologies to run this new format, new technologies ALWAYS have glitches that are later realised.

3) Sony will be able to boast being able to handle disks that are 50gb in size to accomodate for the future, itll be used as a market ploy, and itll work.

4) Considering most games atm arent taking up the full space of a single layer DVD, microsoft wont be in any hurry to incorporate extra costs into this.

5) This will allow for programmers to design much more in depth games in the future, and more graphically stunning games. Also there is a new sound engine being designed by an irish company atm which wil take up more space.

6) Games from sony wont be any more stunning that that from microsoft or nintendo. They will have more space to put more detailed graphics on if they wish, but each company is still limited by current graphic cards and the processors in the machine.

7) Microsoft may lose money in the fact that there are programs out there now which copy x box games and wont take much tweaking to copy new console games, sony will have the fact that VERY VERY VERY few computers will have a blu ray burning device. This could also work against them though.

8) Sony needed to do something dramatic, when the playstation 2 came out, there was alot of backlash at them that it was just a hyped up ps1, nothing new. For those of you who dont know, sony was originally part of nintendo, and playstation was going to be a nintendo project, sony disbanded from nintendo and released the product on there own. This is why the controller is so much like the super nintendo, and still hasnt changed from a console out how many years previous ?

9) As for the 8 years ago comps didnt have 8.8gb hd, i have an 8 year old comp with 50gb hd

There was more i wanted to say but cant remember everything every1 else said so ill leave it at that.