Plus Icon in IMWindow - Printable Version
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Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-17-2005 at 06:21 PM
Patchou,
Why did you choose to put it the Plus! icon in that specific location within the conversation window? Having so much space above the contact's DP window and even more below it (or even have it to the left of that black, downwards pointing arrow in the contact's DP or even better: my own) why would you go ahead and put it in the most used area of the conversation window? I know it can be disabled, but the functionality (shortcut-wise) it brings to your program is too big to live without.
Could you maybe consider relocating it?
And what abou the /sound command? The sound panel that pops up after typing that command is meant to be controlled with the mouse. It's a little uncomfortable to have to reach for the keyboard, type the command and then grab the mouse to select what sound to send. I truly beleive it would be better if the /sound command was integrated as a menu in the Plus! icon within the convo windows.
Thanks for your time,
noroom.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by amsie on 03-17-2005 at 06:58 PM
wats rong wiv it i love everythin in and to do wiv msn and the plus addons i fink it ios da best and nutin should b changed
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by L. Coyote on 03-17-2005 at 09:09 PM
You can disable it.
On the main MSNM window click on the Plus! menu => Preferences...
In the preferences panel => Instant Messages => uncheck "Enhance toolbars with MsgPlus! features"
That should work. (You need to close the chat window for the changes to take effect).
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-17-2005 at 10:29 PM
quote:Because of the new MSN Messenger 7, there can be a whole lot more icons on the bar above the type area. It also wouldn't fit there if you have a small conversation window...
Originally posted by noroom
Why did you choose to put it the Plus! icon in that specific location within the conversation window?
quote:A contact don't always has a DP and therefore all those places will be gone when he doesn't have a DP (see screenshot).
Originally posted by noroom
Having so much space above the contact's DP window and even more below it (or even have it to the left of that black, downwards pointing arrow in the contact's DP or even better: my own)
Also, the icon is meant to be placed near the typing area for convenience, not far away from it...
quote:Isn't that a bit exaggerating? The small panel only takes up 24 pixels. That's hardly bigger then two small letters.
Originally posted by noroom
why would you go ahead and put it in the most used area of the conversation window? I know it can be disabled, but the functionality (shortcut-wise) it brings to your program is too big to live without.
quote:You can also use the top Plus! menu or the added submenu in the action button (the first button with that small arrow pointing down)... In fact those menu's in those menu's contain far more options then the Enhanced Plus! menu in the typing area.
Originally posted by noroom
I know it can be disabled, but the functionality (shortcut-wise) it brings to your program is too big to live without.
quote:It is, click on the little speaker icon in the small panel near the typing area. Also note that you can use your keyboard to navigate in the soundpanel, you don't have to use your mouse.... See Keyboard Shortcuts...
Originally posted by noroom
And what abou the /sound command? The sound panel that pops up after typing that command is meant to be controlled with the mouse. It's a little uncomfortable to have to reach for the keyboard, type the command and then grab the mouse to select what sound to send. I truly beleive it would be better if the /sound command was integrated as a menu in the Plus! icon within the convo windows.
I suggest you to read also all the other Help Pages, Tutorials and FAQ, so you don't miss out on anything.
msn messenger 6
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-18-2005 at 03:30 PM
CookieRevised,
Everything you've circled in red is missing in my IM window, except for the plus! icon in the textbox where you type.
Why? Beats me! I can get the sound icon to appear when I set my own DP size to Medium, but that's it. In your screenshot yours appears to be set to small too, and you can see the sound icon. Can someone explain?
(Btw I know how to make the menus visible. I just want that downwards pointing arrow. The "plus action menu" or something like that.)
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by haydos on 03-18-2005 at 04:03 PM
If you are using a different skin could it possibly be because of that?
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Shaggie on 03-18-2005 at 04:26 PM
I hate to suggest it but it appears as though it would fit under the "My Display Picture". The only question is "Is it possible to put it there?"
Shaggie
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Eljay on 03-18-2005 at 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by noroom
CookieRevised,
Everything you've circled in red is missing in my IM window, except for the plus! icon in the textbox where you type.
Why? Beats me! I can get the sound icon to appear when I set my own DP size to Medium, but that's it. In your screenshot yours appears to be set to small too, and you can see the sound icon. Can someone explain?
(Btw I know how to make the menus visible. I just want that downwards pointing arrow. The "plus action menu" or something like that.)
the plus action submenu thingy next to the block button up the top, i dont have that either
as for the missing sound button, make the text area slightly taller and it will appear
maybe this is a bug, the way it can be hidden like that, meh i dunno
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Plik on 03-18-2005 at 04:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Shaggie
I hate to suggest it but it appears as though it would fit under the "My Display Picture". The only question is "Is it possible to put it there?"
Shaggie
If there isnt a display picture there or you press the arrow to hide it, the textbox moves accross and fills up that space. So that means it would cause compatibility problems.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Stigmata on 03-18-2005 at 04:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by noroom
CookieRevised,
Everything you've circled in red is missing in my IM window, except for the plus! icon in the textbox where you type.
Why? Beats me! I can get the sound icon to appear when I set my own DP size to Medium, but that's it. In your screenshot yours appears to be set to small too, and you can see the sound icon. Can someone explain?
(Btw I know how to make the menus visible. I just want that downwards pointing arrow. The "plus action menu" or something like that.)
maximise you window, and if it is still not there, tell us.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-18-2005 at 05:42 PM
maximized window, still no "plus action icon".
what exactly is contained in there?
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Tochjo on 03-18-2005 at 05:45 PM
I believe the icon is only visible if you're using MSN Messenger 6.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by user27089 on 03-18-2005 at 05:47 PM
I don't have that plus! action icon there, I think it may be to do with 6.2 and have activites there or something, but I'm not sure, I don't have it, but at least you have the sound icon now...
It may be to do with the fact that you have a skin as said before...
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-18-2005 at 06:00 PM
quote:No. Same as before: the display picture can be hidden and all that space will be gone. Just as you can disable all the other toolbars:
Originally posted by Shaggie
I hate to suggest it but it appears as though it would fit under the "My Display Picture". The only question is "Is it possible to put it there?"
msn messenger 6
quote:
Originally posted by Lee Jeffery
the plus action submenu thingy next to the block button up the top, i dont have that either
quote:I hate to repeat it over and over again but: if you read the Official Messenger Plus! Help Pages, Messenger Plus! Tutorials and/or FAQ, all your questions like these are answered...
Originally posted by noroom
Everything you've circled in red is missing in my IM window, except for the plus! icon in the textbox where you type.
Why? Beats me!
In general:
Plus! main menu:
This is a normal conversation window menu. So to show it you need to show your window menus. This can be done by pressing on the little round icon on the top left side of the conversation window.
Plus!' submenu in the MSN Messenger action menu:
This is only available in MSN Messenger 6. In MSN Messenger 7, this button has been removed by Messenger itself and replaced with the bigger Activities button.
Also make sure you have your standard toolbar enabled in Messenger itself: Tools > Show toolbars > Standard
Plus' enhanced toolbar in typing area:
This used to be on the formatting toolbar above the typing area. But because this toolbar got so full and cluttered in the new MSN Messenger 7, the icon has been moved to it's own small panel. A new custom sound menu has been added also. To activate it you need to enable:
Plus! Preferences > Instant Messages > General Options > Enhance the toolbars with Messenger Plus! features.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-19-2005 at 12:12 AM
CookieRevised,
All I'm doing here is trying to suggest better places for that Plus! icon, because I don't think it's a great idea that our workspace gets reduced.
Patchou: What about adding it as a tab below the textbox? Just like handwriting, but instead it would popup a menu at cursor position.
... I don't even know why I keep trying. It's not like he's gonna listen to my suggestions. How frustrating, heh...
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by L. Coyote on 03-19-2005 at 12:17 AM
quote:It's not that. It's the fact that it can be disabled. If you disable it you get that little piece of space back. So why remove it at all?
Originally posted by noroom
Patchou: What about adding it as a tab below the textbox? Just like handwriting, but instead it would popup a menu at cursor position.
... I don't even know why I keep trying. It's not like he's gonna listen to my suggestions. How frustrating, heh...
Pop-ups are annoying, imo. I rather have it there.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-19-2005 at 04:24 AM
I don't want to disable it. I want to have it, but not taking up that specific space.
I guess I'll disable it and live without it.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-19-2005 at 10:29 AM
Patchou does listen to suggestions. But believe me, there is no better/other place for the icon. The place where it is now is the best place it can be, this will nog change. IF there was a possible better place it wouldn't be where it is now...
Everything in Messenger Plus! isn't simply and quickly slammed together like put some things here and put some things there, it is thought about. And as you can see in my previous screenshot, there is NO other place to put it.
As for a tab; if you would slide up a menu from it when you click, that wouldn't be a tab anymore. Windows is all about consistency; you can't just go and change the functionality from controls. And also, Plus! is an addon, not a stand alone chatprogram. It only can use what is available by hooking MSN Messenger.
So thank you for your suggestions, but it will stay where it is, afterall it's only 24 pixels. That's less then 2 small letters. Your display picture takes more space, even when in the smallest size!
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Pc_Madness on 03-20-2005 at 12:55 AM
Are you a tester or a developer CookieRevised?
Personally I agree with noroom, put it on the left side of the Handwriting toolbar. On 7 they use the images instead of text so theres plenty of room on really small windows, and on 6.2 it would be pretty hard to run out of room anyway.
The button for Plus used to be on the Formating toolbar, so I don't see why Patchou couldn't pull off putting them on the handwriting toolbar instead?
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-20-2005 at 01:04 AM
(see attachment)
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Ezra on 03-20-2005 at 01:08 AM
If Patchou would put it there it would conflict with the User is Typing a Message text and Last Message Received on xx:xx wouldn't it?
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Pc_Madness on 03-20-2005 at 01:16 AM
Yeah, thats a good point. Right side would be a better choice, but again the size of the handwriting buttons is an issue.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by mwe99 on 03-20-2005 at 01:22 AM
Also the Plus! icon may be there as most countrys read left the right and is there for convience too 
quote:
Are you a tester or a developer CookieRevised?
Yep he's a "offical tester" he has a small bar saying "offical tester" underneath his name
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by lopardo on 03-20-2005 at 02:18 AM
quote:Errrm, wasn't that a bit harsh, Cookie?
Originally posted by CookieRevised
So thank you for your suggestions, but it will stay where it is, afterall it's only 24 pixels. That's less then 2 small letters. Your display picture takes more space, even when in the smallest size!
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by AiSard on 03-20-2005 at 08:24 AM
wouldnt it be better if it was moved to above the top right bit of where you type? like to the left of ure DP if u have one. Where it used to be b4? Being on the left side of where i type is kinda annoying as, for one, im not used to it and it being there and all just feels wrong, two, i keep clicking on it every time i want to type because thats where i usually click to start typing.
All in all, i just feel that its out of place. Cant Patchou like make an option so it can be in either one place or the other cuz i dont want to disable it all together, i just dont like it where it is now, prefer it were it used to be (the lil' circular plus icon) Some ppl may use the plus functions all the time so it's convenient there but some ppl (like me) just use it every once in a while and its proving more of a distraction and irratation than conveniant.
PS. does anyone know where i can get MsgPlus 3.25? (i think thats the version b4 this one..)
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-20-2005 at 03:29 PM
quote:Yep, I'm an official tester and translator. I also develop my own private stuff.
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Are you a tester or a developer CookieRevised?
quote:Yeah maybe. But accusing Patchou for not listening to suggestions is equaly harsh...
Originally posted by lopardo
Errrm, wasn't that a bit harsh, Cookie?
------
The icons are where they are. Like I said before, Patchou thinks about it before he is doing something. Every and each location suggested in this thread is not good for several reasons, and almost all those reasons can easly be discovered if you enable/disable DP's or toolbars, resize your conversation window, compare msn messenger 7 to 6, etc...
Like I said, the icons will stay where they are for very obvious reasons...
Recap:
All the space between, above, under the DP's is no good
=> DP's can be disabled resulting in loosing the space. (see my screenshot in this thread)
The formatting toolbar where it used to be is no good.
=> Since MSN Messenger 7 that toolbar is very, and I mean very full. Take in consideration that even without the Plus! icons there and in MSN Messenger 7, even not all the standard icons can be shown when your conversation window is small.
Making a tab besides the handwriting and a slide menu is no good.
=> Not only wouldn't it be directly accessable, it also isn't how buttons/"icons" work. There is a convention you must follow when writing Windows Applications. You can't go changing the beheviour of a standard element in Windows; the user would be confused. Besides, Plus! is an addon and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to make something like that with an addon.
On the left side of the tabs is no good.
=> That is the place where messages are shown. Also, when you resize your conversation window to very small, there isn't even enough room to display the icons in some languages in MSN Messenger 6 since the tabs will take all the space. Also note that there can be more tabs then the two you most likely see by default in MSN Messenger 7.
On the right side of the tabs is no good.
=> Same as above... plus RTL language-consideration.
On the right side of the typing area (because you accidently click on it all the time).
=> Not only will it look ugly, the problem of accidental clicking will be doubled: you have the send button there, and people with RTL languages will also have the same problem...
------
The place where it is now is the best place there is. If there is another one then it will be changed _IF_ possible, but all the places suggested by now are no good.
------
I'm sorry. But I fail to see what's so 'space-taking' about the 24 pixel wide panel. Like I said, your DP takes more space. If you want as much as space as possible, disable your DP, it is functionless anyways.
quote:Then disable it and use either the shortcuts, commands, main Plus!-menu, or the other advanced icon (msgr7) or the action submenu (msgr6).
Originally posted by AiSard
Some ppl may use the plus functions all the time so it's convenient there but some ppl (like me) just use it every once in a while and its proving more of a distraction and irratation than conveniant.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by noroom on 03-20-2005 at 05:40 PM
If I make the chatwindow small enough, the "Packs" icon disappears and you don't see Microsoft complaining.
In MSN6 you could hide the formatting toolbar.
That didn't stop Patchou from placing the Plus! icon there.
I don't see why he couldn't place it somewhere where it could be hidden in some cases. I'd rather have to click twice than have it taking up useful space.
Edit:
Oh, and he could put the Sound icon as a subitem in the Plus! icon, reducing the amount of icons to place in the chatwindow to half.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Impheatus on 03-21-2005 at 07:46 AM
I agrre with noroom...
CookieRevsied, the problem isn't the 24 pixels, but it just feels wrong in there... you know what I mean?
Is the same as the convention between tabs and buttons... is the heuristic in developing a program...
I think the last post noroom did is pretty good and it beats every "BUT" you wrote b4.
I'm not saying that what you said was useless, since you are a mod that really helps ppl in these formus.
To help improve noroom's idea, I would like to suggest that the "Enhanced icons" feature could come with some options so you can select where to place these 2 icons.
Some options could be:
- Place enhanced icons next to "ban" and "color scheme" buttons
- Place enhanced icons in the formatting toolbar
- Place enhanced icons next to "handwrite" and "text" tabs
This way, people could select just where to place these USEFULL icons and anybody would be complainning about it; in addition that the icons would not disappear for disabling any toolbar since you can change the Plus! icons position.
Some other options could be added... Like for instance: having a little arrow that hides/shows (like the one in the display picture) the enhanced toolbar.
I hope these suggestions are not only read, but considered, because, in my opinion, this is an important subject to discuss and think about.
Thank you.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-21-2005 at 05:20 PM
quote:No it isn't the same. What Messenger Plus! does is extending the toolbar to the left. Thus those few pixels aren't a typing area anymore and shouldn't be considered as a typing area but as the 'Plus! toolbar'.
Originally posted by Impheatus
CookieRevsied, the problem isn't the 24 pixels, but it just feels wrong in there... you know what I mean?
Is the same as the convention between tabs and buttons... is the heuristic in developing a program...
quote:I can assure you that people always will be complaining about something...
Originally posted by Impheatus
....and nobody would be complainning about it
quote:Although it is a possible suggestion, it isn't realy needed as all the functions of the icons are also available either with shortcuts, commands, in the main Plus!-menu, in the other advanced icon (msgr7) or the action submenu (msgr6).
Originally posted by Impheatus
I would like to suggest that the "Enhanced icons" feature could come with some options so you can select where to place these 2 icons.
The whole point of those other menu's, commands and shortcuts, etc. is that you have that choice; that you can decide if you want to use/enable the small toolbar or not.
eg: instead of pressing on the sound icon, simply type the command /sound.
If you want the functionality but you don't want the panel, then simply disable the panel and use these provided alternatives. It's why they are there...
quote:That's the only suggestion in this whole thread that makes some sense IMHO.
Originally posted by Impheatus
Some other options could be added... Like for instance: having a little arrow that hides/shows (like the one in the display picture) the enhanced toolbar.
But then again, if it is all about available space, then this feature will make the panel even wider and thus making the typeing area even smaller (although I realy realy can't see how 24px is such a big problem in such a wide typeing area in the first place). If it is about 'looking misplaced', then the closed panel will still look misplaced (and you still would have some x pixels wide panel). If it is about convenience: "so you can click twice to get to the sound panel" as alternative as noroom doesn't seem to have a problem with, then simply use the Plus! menu. 1 click on the menu, and 1 click on the "send an emoticon sound" menuitem... (edit: or simply use the shortcut => CTRL+Q)
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Impheatus on 03-21-2005 at 06:43 PM
Well I think you could be right. I think I'll disable that toolbar and use the shortcuts (even if it takes more time).
But then again, the little hide/show arrow could be implemented "easily" and it would be pretty convenient to have.
Thanks anyways CookieRevised for your support.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by riahc4 on 03-21-2005 at 10:06 PM
Im starting to agree more and more with Cookie everytime I read his posts! Man hes always right 
Anyways like Cookie said, Patchou doesnt just paste the buttons anywhere. He looks at all the different possibilities of conflicts and other problems that may occur if he puts it in some other place. The hide/show button is accually a good suggestion. This will problably (dont take my word for the following.. be implanted in a future release along with a "/" command for personal message changing...
RE: RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by uam on 03-27-2005 at 11:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
As for a tab; if you would slide up a menu from it when you click, that wouldn't be a tab anymore. Windows is all about consistency; you can't just go and change the functionality from controls. And also, Plus! is an addon, not a stand alone chatprogram. It only can use what is available by hooking MSN Messenger.
Sorry for pointing that here out, but what is consistent on the listbox showing up under Presets button in Personalised status?
Moreover, not only the list cannot handle keyboard events (which I personally find very annoying), but what control is the button? It remains toggled, but it cannot be untoggled... whole this stuff is everything but not Windows-like.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by lopardo on 03-28-2005 at 01:58 AM
quote:You're right, it's kinda dodgy... but that's the only thing like that in Plus I think
Originally posted by uam
Sorry for pointing that here out, but what is consistent on the listbox showing up under Presets button in Personalised status?
Moreover, not only the list cannot handle keyboard events (which I personally find very annoying), but what control is the button? It remains toggled, but it cannot be untoggled... whole this stuff is everything but not Windows-like.
It can be untoggled by unfocusing the window.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by uam on 03-28-2005 at 01:01 PM
Yep, I also thing this is the only thing like that. Yes, it disappears almost by everything you do, except clicking the button again 
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by CookieRevised on 03-29-2005 at 12:27 AM
[OFF TOPIC]
Although it isn't often seen, such a button is also standard in windows and is called a toggle button. It's a button which keeps his current state even if you release the mousebutton. Considering the label and the needed explaination in the panel below it, it is an alternative to a normal label + combobox + frame.
[/OFF TOPIC]
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Patchou on 03-29-2005 at 05:17 AM
As Cookie already explained it so well, if there was another place where the icons could be put, they woudl already be there...when creating Plus! 3.50 I searched a very long tiem for a sollution and I'm pretty happy with the current one. The fact is, I tried what yousuggested in yourscreenshot (icons at the bottom) but the "User is saying" message just messed it up too much. Almost every other place can be cut off from the window and the original location is crowded in Messenger 7. I thankyou for your suggestions but I dothink the current little vertical bar is the way to go for now as it's included nicely in the chat window (uses the same color theme), doesn't flash out weirdly when resizing the window (likethe previous icon was doing) and provides space for future possible additions . Note that if you disable it, you can still bring the sound panel from the Plus! menu or with a keyboard shortcut (I don't remember it as I don't use it, it's in the change log ).
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Purity on 03-29-2005 at 06:04 AM
I think that the icon is perfect where it is and theres nothing wrong with where it is right now...
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Shaggie on 03-29-2005 at 03:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Madman
quote:
Originally posted by Shaggie
I hate to suggest it but it appears as though it would fit under the "My Display Picture". The only question is "Is it possible to put it there?"
Shaggie
If there isnt a display picture there or you press the arrow to hide it, the textbox moves accross and fills up that space. So that means it would cause compatibility problems.
I must admit that I did not think of that since I almost never hide my display picture.
I have no problems with where it is. Is it possible that you have the problem because you are using a 640x480 screen size? I use 1152x864 and find the loss of space hardly noticeable. Anyway, I don't think this is worth discussing anymore IMHO.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by lopardo on 03-29-2005 at 09:43 PM
quote:We know about toggle buttons, we're just pointing out that it is used in a dodgy manner there (the toggle button is standard, but it showing a listbox in that way is not). I don't understand your alternative, but I think a better approach would be if that button had an arrow and showed a menu when clicked...
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Although it isn't often seen, such a button is also standard in windows and is called a toggle button. It's a button which keeps his current state even if you release the mousebutton.
RE: Plus Icon in IMWindow by Impheatus on 03-31-2005 at 06:40 PM
Mhh... you didn't answer to my suggestion Patchou... about the hide/show arrow for the enhanced toolbar...
I think it won't take you more than 10 minutes to code and it would be very usefull for everyone.
Hope you have that in mind and keep up the good work.
P.S. Thanks for taking care about us by replying in the forums 