I just logged on today and realized that only 2 of my buddies on my maxed out contact list has MsgPlus! so I decided I might as well spread the word.

But then I remember my last unfortunate try to spread Plus!, the problem is no one trusts Plus! anymore. And it all boils down to the one final point.

The optional Adware.

I know, I know its optional, and I know, I know, theres a 3 second warning, and I know, I know it doesnt start with any option checked off anymore but its time to remove the adware.

Too many stupid people think one of two things:
1. they have to accept because its MsgPlus!'s linsence agreement. (which is quite obviously not the case)

2. They have no choice but to install spyware or else the program wont install (like may freeware programs [kazaa for one])

The second I find to be the most popular.

And the final problem is no matter what you tell them they will blame Plus!

I think because of this MsgPlus! has hit the end of the line in terms of popularity. People are willing to give up extra features in order to twart adware.

I know, I know they are just stupid but come on Patchou, the time has come.

thanx for listening,
c00ly.

(p.s. i know i can tell my friends to watch closely but there are alot "smash installers" out there)


did you know= symantec now considers adware to be a form of virus?

Well Patchou can't just remove the adware because that's his source of income

Patchou has made the installer is clear as he POSSIBLE can (a timed disclaimer AND a picture of the toolbar), so just send a screenshot of the adware installer section to your friends if they don't believe you.

And you are who to (apparently) order Patchou to remove his only way of income?

Come on! If you really care, just tell them. If they don't want to listen, they don't know what they're missing.

Patchou can earn income from putting ads on his site. Seriously the time has come to remove the adware.

did you know= symantec now considers adware to be a form of virus?

edit: i'm gonna put that fact on the 1st post.

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
Patchou can earn income from putting ads on his site. Seriously the time has come to remove the adware.

---

Like i said, people just dont read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
Like i said, people just dont read.

---

read my sig do u copy, over.

I know its their fault, but the only thing we can do to stop it is to remove it.

Just think about how may Plus! users are lost because of this one minor detail.

And think seriously about what adware does.

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
I know its their fault, but the only thing we can do to stop it is to remove it.

Just think about how may Plus! users are lost because of this one minor detail.

And think seriously about what adware does.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
I know its their fault, but the only thing we can do to stop it is to remove it.

---

TBH, that doesn't make any sense.

"Hmm...I don't wanna charge people so I'll make it free. I have to make money so I'll include OPTIONAL adware. They don't like the adware? I'll just remove it entirely and not make ANY money on my already free software!"



Messenger Plus! is not an application that took Patchou 5 minutes to slap together in VB, he's spent years developing it and making it as good as possible (in C++).

You guys clearly aren't listening to what I have to say.

Adware is not the answer, thats all I'm saying.

any suggestions? (good, real suggestions please. you cant live only with a couple of  ad banners in a website )

i think we should keep it, because people need to read carefully what they accept for, this is a stupid thing , it is not Patchou's problem if they dont read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
You guys clearly aren't listening to what I have to say.

Adware is not the answer, thats all I'm saying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by blade

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
Patchou can earn income from putting ads on his site. Seriously the time has come to remove the adware.

---

That barely produces any income (he already has an ad on his site when you download it).


Besides, how much more clear can it be than this?

---

that would be a good suggestion too.

Annoying.

The point is not to scare the users. I believe the installer is VERY clear about it. If no one wants to read, that's their problem.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
Annoying.

The point is not to scare the users. I believe the installer is VERY clear about it. If no one wants to read, that's their problem.

---

I hate to be the minority in this, but I think c00ly has a point. The optional adware has steered away many potential Plus! users and it's a shame. Everyone here seems to ignore the original facts that c00ly posted, so here they are again:

Too many stupid people think one of two things:
1. they have to accept because its MsgPlus!'s linsence agreement. (which is quite obviously not the case)

2. They have no choice but to install spyware or else the program wont install (like may freeware programs [kazaa for one])

Now, pushing aside all the blame on the individual user, the fact remains: the normal person does not read the EULA's, because they're too damn long. I don't even read them for that fact alone. The normal person is also (no offense to anyone but it's true) stupid, in the sense that they're ignorant to things that should be manditory.

I'm not suggesting to remove the adware. A pop up window when the user chooses 'accept' notifying them that they don't need to install the sponsor to use Messenger Plus! would be nice, but it might also decrease Patchou's income significantly.

Maybe, if Patchou decides to do so, in the next version of Plus! he could add a popup window when the user clicks 'I accept', for that version only, then go back to how it is now so he could see the difference and compare them both (and maybe even post his findings to settle this, once and for all). Experimentation can do little harm, but it can spark great knowledge.

Just my 2 cents

wow... if is in big black letters it must be true...

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo
No, no. Don't try to back away now.

You said it's time to change. You are ordering Patchou to remove the sponsor in the first post. Now you say you are "just saying adware is not the answer"?

---

hey, you guys are all hippicrits anyways, when a new MSN Messenger 7 Beta comes out you have it installed in minutes , it would take a while to read every last word of that EULA.

Hey c00ly if patchou was to remove the optional adware then the only other way he could get money was to start chargeing people to use plus! and we all know that we dont want that to happen so lets just stick with the optional adware from c2media and personally i think its nice and im probally gonna reinstall plus in a bit with the sponser.

You think adware is nice? Did you just choose to hear what you want to hear?

I can't stress this enough, Symantec one of the leading virus prevention and internet security companies considers adware (the thing you think is nice) to be a form of virus!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
You think adware is nice? Did you just choose to hear what you want to hear?

I can't stress this enough, Symantec one of the leading virus prevention and internet security companies considers adware (the thing you think is nice) to be a form of virus!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
You think adware is nice? Did you just choose to hear what you want to hear?

I can't stress this enough, Symantec one of the leading virus prevention and internet security companies considers adware (the thing you think is nice) to be a form of virus!!!

---

They should read, its not Patchou's fault that they don't read, the sponsor program has been there for a while, we have always helped people and made them understand the truth about the sponsor program, it really isn't his problem what people say, he needs the money that he gets from the sponsor to earn an income, he has tried many other methods of gaining money, asking people to donate, ads on his website, but the major source of his income is coming from the sponsor program, he won't remove it, its as clear as water that you can press 'i refuse', heck, its the easiest adware I've ever removed to be honest .

They don't have to necesserally read the EULA's either, its just a massive contract, just read around the page, and you'll see that its the sponsor program...

OK I see things this way, Plus is awesome, but I gotta agree that something needs to be done. 

There is no point saying ppl should read the agreement, ppl do not do that, how many of you just click accept all the way thru?  Everyone has done that before, noobs need educating not dismissing.

Maybe a pop-up stsating it is optional is a good way forward, it would not scare ppl, how could a window saying "Please support me by installing this adware(or whatever it is these days), if you choose not to install it then plus will still be fully functional."

I do not see any Donation buttons on the front page, does Patchou even accept donations like this? 

If he does plz point me in th diretion, cos a quick glance at the front page was fruitless.

Oh and yes, I know many ppl who have started to install, got to the adware screen and not read it properly and just cancelled.  In my experience ppl, especially noobs, will pay attention to a pop-up during an install, simply because it is there to get your attention.

I never said adware its sell is nice. What I was implying was that I think its nice to install the sponser so that way it helps patchou.

Oh and so what if i have selective hearing/reading

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Don
I never said adware its sell is nice. What I was implying was that I think its nice to install the sponser so that way it helps patchou.

Oh and so what if i have selective hearing/reading

---

I checked it out they said i have some thing called a.d. holy shit did you know msgplus has an optional sponser

LOL

So simply because n00b people don't read, Patchou should comply and remove the sponsor? That is no solution at all, in fact it will only keep the dumb people, even more dumb and not aware of things...

This is exactly what other programs do. eg. some anti-spyware programs or anti-virus programs don't make a clear destinction anymore between adware/spyware/virusses (even not for the experienced user). Result? More and more people start to think they are all the same....

If a baby can't read, you don't ban all books, don't you? You teach them by showing, so they can experience themself what is what...

this said....
-----

@c00ly: your friends, do they use the English translation? If not, what translation are they using? Cause it can be quite possible that some translations aren't made clear enough in their options in the sponsor setup screen....

I agree that the Sponsor Installation should remain in the Installer.  I say again - Keep the sponsor.

I think the biggest problem is because of using words like "I agree" or "I accept".  Perhaps the first option should read something like the following
"Install the optional Sponsor program with Messenger Plus!"
or
"Include the optional Sponsor program with the Messenger Plus! Installation"

I think when people see "I agree" or "I accept" it is a trigger for them.  They say "Oh I have to click that or else I can't install it".  This is why I suggest a change in the wording of the sponsor agreement.

Let me say one last time that Patchou should keep the sponsor program.  Everyone agrees that he needs to earn a living, and this provides him with at least one source of Income to justify continued work on Messenger Plus!, ignoring the fact that he enjoys working on this.  Without this source of income, I beleive it is likely that he would be personally compelled to spend significantly less time on Messenger Plus!.

Also I wanted to say that I would not have even bothered to say anything, had it not been for this thread.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shaggie
I think the biggest problem is because of using words like "I agree" or "I accept".  Perhaps the first option should read something like the following
"Install the optional Sponsor program with Messenger Plus!"
or
"Include the optional Sponsor program with the Messenger Plus! Installation"

I think when people see "I agree" or "I accept" it is a trigger for them.  They say "Oh I have to click that or else I can't install it".  This is why I suggest a change in the wording of the sponsor agreement.

---

I also agree he should keep it, never said otherwise, but re-wording would help.

I also agree on the trigger theory, this is exactly what has happened to some of the ppl I have recommended this prog too, and it then takes me a while to explain to them that it is not malicious.

No-one answered me either regarding donations?  Does Patchou accept them, if so where is the link so I can point ppl in the right direction.

i think the (optional) adaware should be removed. people just read the first part of the sentence: "I accept...." and click it. thats why so many people install all the adware... and then complain about msg plus!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
If no one wants to read, that's their problem.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by King For A Day

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
If no one wants to read, that's their problem.

---

but its not, its patchous problem because then nodoy will use the program, and if they dont use it he gets nothing and if he gets nothiing then theres no plus

is a cycle,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoMeN
i think the (optional) adaware should be removed. people just read the first part of the sentence: "I accept...." and click it. thats why so many people install all the adware... and then complain about msg plus!

---

A donation button existed a long time ago. But it was taken off because over a few years time only some people donated. But it was in total even hardly a month's salery (old threads about this still exist I think)...

A donation button (aka PayPal) isn't an alternative to the sponsor at all. Not only will it bring far to less too live on (note to Plus!-haters out there: that doesn't mean that Patchou is a money wolf. It means he has to earn something to live on, as developping Messenger Plus! is his full time job), but also many people don't even have a creditcard, or the likes, to use a donation button.

But, if you still want to give money instead of installing the sponsor, you can always buy something from the Plus! store.

Put yourself in Patchou's shoes:

Your the developer of Plus!, you currently have no job because you need to dedicate your time to support and development of Plus!. You hardly eat, sleep or do anything else. How would you (legally) get your money for your work?

Just think of that. When you reply we'll see....

quote:

---

Originally posted by may73alliance
and its optional.....so are you going to accept the option to install a 'virus' (in symnatecs terms)???

if they're stupid enough to not read what they are accepting they deserve this so called 'virus' then 

if the spyware wasnt optional and you HAD to install it, then id see what you mean. but the fact you can freely reject to install it is why it shouldn't be removed. if you read what your installing....you dont get the adware, if you don't read and just click next and accept everything, you'll get the spyware....2 paths....pick 1...simple

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
but is not, im sick of watching this kind of threads. the sponsor is optional, so whats the point? Patchou needs to get money and i agree with the sponsor  keep the good work coming Patchou, also he gives away money to charity and that kind of things, that is a good action and talks by itself, like i said stop making this kind of threads, the sponsor stay and thats all. 

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by may73alliance
many many people use plus. most of them know about the adware. if one smart person can tell others not to just accept. everything should be fine.....patchou should leave the adware it only harms people who agree they want it on they're pc. not patchou's fault if they don't read......

---

Everything has been said already. And don't double-post, it's against the forum rules.

Meh, screw this. I'm gonna do the unthinkable: install the Messenger Plus! sponsor!

DUN DUN DUN!

After re-reading this thread, I guess everyone has their points, and they're all valid. I'm just gonna do whatever I can to support Patchou. Does he get money when someone searches with the toolbar, or... how does that work?

and did he hafta make toolbar to?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caboose
Meh, screw this. I'm gonna do the unthinkable: install the Messenger Plus! sponsor!

DUN DUN DUN!

After re-reading this thread, I guess everyone has their points, and they're all valid. I'm just gonna do whatever I can to support Patchou. Does he get money when someone searches with the toolbar, or... how does that work?

---

[unrelated-sarcasm]OMG! That's so unsafe. [/unrelated-sarcasm]

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
btw a pop-up box would be perfect, because serioulsy people read every word on one. the major preoblem is people think they have no choice but to install it.

---

Wow... just... wow. I'm glad I had Microsoft AntiSpyware protecting me

Well, let's see. I got about 5 alert popups, telling me things about a BHO (which I can only assume is the toolbar; even though I blocked it it's still there ), a startup entry for something called 'Dead clock.exe', an Internet Explorer homepage change, an IE search page change, and something else that I can't remember right now. I'll try and find out what it is when my scan is finished . I also got 2 icons on my desktop, 'Casino Online' and 'Poker'. Even my Firefox start page was changed and I had a tough time setting it back.

Now I know why everyone's so pissed when they install the sponsor...

[Edit] Here's some more detailed stuff:

==================================================

Startup Registry Entry: StartUp dead clock.exe dead clock.exe

Disabled date: 3/22/2005 8:52:17 PM

Details: Startup Registry Entry deactivated

Registry Key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run jump global way open = C:\Documents and Settings\All Users.WINDOWS\Application Data\five draw jump global\Dead clock.exe deactivated on

==================================================

The Internet Explorer URL for your Search Bar is attempting to be changed from http://www.laqssafzxdoa.net/rvYNS6HRkhu3Oev05yxku...nXx64PdBK/tADP.htm to http://www.ozndhabtqcbovsagoyeuau.com/rvYNS6HRkhu...waK4PdBK/tADP.html.

The default URL for your Search Bar is http://home.microsoft.com/search/lobby/search.asp.

=================================================

Browser Helper Object: BHO amenrdr.exe {20F207D9-FDDA-CAA9-C50F-18A78331EBFE}

Disabled date: 3/22/2005 8:56:28 PM

Details: Browser Helper Object deactivated

Registry Key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Browser Helper Objects\{20F207D9-FDDA-CAA9-C50F-18A78331EBFE} decativated on

==================================================

Microsoft AntiSpyware has detected a Browser Helper Object trying to be added. A BHO is an application that extends Internet Explorer and acts as a plug-in allowing the BHO full control of Internet Explorer.

Name: amenrdr.exe
Path: c:\docume~1\george~1.chr\applic~1\surfme~1\amenrdr.exe

=================================================

I just looked at CodeStuff Starter to see what else it had added to my startup that Microsoft AntiSpyware missed, and I found 'okay beep.exe', located at C:\DOCUME~1\GEORGE~1.CHR\APPLIC~1\FIRSTR~1\trans store.exe


In conclusion: can't the sponsor be just a toolbar?

Weird, I don't have that problem.

Pop-ups, sure. Homepage changes, yes. Also, anti-stuff programs rely on notifying everything to people, especially MSAS.

* L. Coyote opens IE and clicks the sponsor.

Ok I am sick and tired of threads like this being created everytime their is a new release of Messenger Plus!. Since Patchou has incorporated the Optional Sponsor program he has had nothing but bad reviews from people who do not read and blame all their problems on Plus!. Which back when it was added it caused alot of problems. But since then has been rectified. Patchou has asked the creator of the sponsor to remove all adult oriented material, stop from changing PC Name on a network etc. The sponsor application now creates desktop icons, a search bar, adds favourites and changes the home page which compared the the first version is quite different.

c00ly: If Patchou could remove the sponsor and still make a living don't you think he would have done so already? Seriously Google ads don't payout a lot compared to the Sponsor program (which only pays for use of the search bar from what I understand). The Sponsor has paid for the servers that these forums are hosted on. You seem to think that an application that makes little changes to your system is harmful. What about all the applications that contain multiple system altering applications like Bargains, New Dot Net, Internet Optimizer and so forth. Don't you feel that those companies should remove theirs as well? If not then why do you have such a biased opinion about the Plus! Sponsor? The program isn't going to fuck up your computer as people claim it does. People who do Computer Programming for a living have a hard life. Programming is a job and takes hours on end but it is not a forever job. You are approached when a project is needed, once its complete your get your money and wait for another project which could be months or years then what are you going to do? You have a house, car, bills, and most of all you need to eat. If you don't have an income for a bit you may be forced to eat Kraft Dinner or nothing at all. I am sick and tired of the past people who have bitched about the Plus! Sponsor, the people in the future who will, and you for having such a narrow minded view on the situation. Patchou needs to eat and pay bills. Are you going to pay him for his work? Trust me, you couldn't afford him. So with all that said lets stop the talk about "Patchou should remove the sponsor" because the guy has to eat period!

TaKYoN: How can you sit there and suggest to have a pop box to tell people that the following license agreement is for the Plus! Sponsor? If Patchou were to do that then no one would install the Plus! Sponsor (which is harmless) and Patchou would go hungry because he wouldn't be making any money from it. And he would be forced to do one of two things.

1) Completly stop the development of Messenger Plus!
2) Make Messenger Plus! payable (meaning you have to pay for it to use it.)

I don't think anyone wants that to happen to such a great program. Messenger Plus! is not like the episode from the Simpsons where Homer becomes someone who wants to protect others through signs so he puts up signs for the slightest thing like Sign Up Ahead > Crack Sidewalk Up Ahead > 10ft till cracked Sidewalk > 5ft till cracked Sidewalk > 4ft till cracked Sidewalk > 3ft till cracked Sidewalk > 2ft till cracked Sidewalk > 1ft till cracked Sidewalk > Cracked Side Walk here. Patchou already gives users multiple screens talking about the Plus! Sponsor so what more do you want? While people will actually read the alert box the images and extra screens should be enough, if they don't pay any attention then they deserve what they get. I can only see someone agreeing to a license that said "by installing our application you will pay us $10 each month for the use and $100 a month after uninstallation" and bitching because they didn't read. I have personally talked to Patchou about having a pop box previously to any thread posted on the forum and his answer will stay the same as it was back then. No. Symantec may classify adware as a virus but the actual definition of adware isn't the same as a virus. The main objective of a virus is to "replicate itself" adware just provides ads. Big difference.

The donation link was on Patchou's original page when Messenger Plus! was version 1.42.

In conclusion: Programmers need an income to support their life. Ads just don't cut it. And programmers don't get enough projects a year to be able to support themselves. The Plus! Sponsor is harmless so let it be. Go do something usless and bitch about programs that actually harms your computer because we are all sick and tired of your type bitching about the Sponsor. No one has succeeded with their attempts to have Patchou change the installer to fit their needs so please stop trying.

Matty.... that had to be sayed...

Yeah, I agee with every word you just said... Patchou has to eat and thats the end of it...

whenever these fellows have a family to feed... or even have a job for that matter,  theyll understand that working for free sucks....

EDIT: Dodgy mod for deleting my post while i was editing it...

I understand that Patchou has to eat, and live, and that he can only do that with the sponsor program. But... you know what? Fuck it. No one even acknowledges anything that I've said, even though it's the truth. I want to stand up for Patchou just as much as anyone else here. I now have the sponsor installed and I'm supporting Patchou, so I'm not a bad guy. I just wanted to present the facts.

Moving on... >_>

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chrono

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
btw a pop-up box would be perfect, because serioulsy people read every word on one. the major preoblem is people think they have no choice but to install it.

---

if people dont read all the warnings that are displayed during the setup, why would they read the pop up? it would be EXACTLY the same.

And over 2 million people download Messenger Plus! every month (just check msgplus.net) so i think you are over exagerating with "no one trusts Plus! anymore"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
Umm. no, there is absolutly no way of knowing how many people download and install plus!. Ok lets say Clicks on the download button. No, I myself have downloaded and install plus on numerous systems, I'm only one person. and, I myself have re-installed plus on my machines too, along with upgrades and such. Ok now lets say Unique IP adresses. Did you know all of AOL has the same IP? And did you know my ISP changes every clients IP every 3 or so days? And did you know my ISP is the most popular ISP in my area. What else you got?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
I'm telling you the numbers are dropping, you can choose not to listen.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
No, the last time I checked when my Grandma, whos not so technologically advanced, (she just got a computer for email a year ago) sees "Warning your computer could have viruses" and "Shoot the monkey to win a trip" she knows not to click OK.

The point is people really read pop-ups, they want to know if somethings really wrong.

---

c00ly, you seem to want a PSP so bad... you do know that the PSPs were purchased with the money provided by the Sponsors for users of Plus! using the software? You seem to not realize what Patchou does. He gave away Game Cubes with the Messenger Plus! 2 release, he donated money to the Tsunami releif in our name (the community, which I feel is giving it a bad name because if it weren't for the Plus! Sponsor no money would have been contributed), and now is giving away PSPs and a Laptop. All these giveaways were made possible because of the Plus! Sponsor, so with that said... just fuck off and get a life cause no one cares that your friends are iliterate when it comes to reading screens on their computer when they are initiating the installation for a program.

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
did you know= symantec now considers adware to be a form of virus?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by c00ly
I can't stress this enough, Symantec one of the leading virus prevention and internet security companies considers adware (the thing you think is nice) to be a form of virus!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Symantec Security Response

Programs that facilitate delivery of advertising content to the user through their own window, or by utilizing another program's interface. In some cases, these programs may gather information from the user's computer, including information related to Internet browser usage or other computing habits, and relay this information back to a remote computer or other location in cyber-space.

---