Legality of Messenger Plus! - Printable Version
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Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-07-2003 at 10:42 AM
Quote of Jonathan Kay who represent Microsoft with MSn Messenger issues...
...the legality of Messenger Plus is somewhat
questioned...
Humm... any thoughts?
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-07-2003 at 10:58 AM
ok what i think:
IT IS LEGAL
1)Messenger Plus does NOT edit/patch any part of the Messenger EXE or DLL's
2)The Plus menu can be added to any program without patching the Program (e.g. if anyone has used Elite Spys you can edit lots of window options just by clicking typing clicking) also if 
was deamed illegal so would Interactive Agents for there About Menu in the Help Menu
3)IT uses nothing but the API - I can prove it in a way because the FIRST ever Messenger Plus! Alpha was a Manual install by us testers
4)Why would such a nice guy who gives most likely the BEST after install support for ANY MSN Messenger add-on waste his Reputation on making an illegal program for over 200000 people to use(I wouldn't)
5)Why would so many people use it if it WAS illegal???(Bringing back Point 4)
Just a few ideas to add to the fire.
[Edit]
Not allowed to use HTML 
[/Edit]
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Menthix on 02-07-2003 at 11:34 AM
Only one way to really find out:
Read the latest MSN Messenger and Windows Messnger EULA's
And visit http://www.microsoft.com/legal/ ... read everything 
Probaly need a lawyer to understand everything 
But the truth is out there
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-07-2003 at 11:35 AM
i've read it (Taking up law soon (maybe))
Seems totally Legal according to the MSN Messenger TOU as well
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-07-2003 at 03:16 PM
They is only 1 thing I can think of... and thats removing the ad banner at the bottom, everything else seems ok from my pov.
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by billywoods1 on 02-07-2003 at 06:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
3)IT uses nothing but the API - I can prove it in a way because the FIRST ever Messenger Plus! Alpha was a Manual install by us testers
Yes, I second that... nothing illegal at all was done then, why should it be done now?
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
They is only 1 thing I can think of... and thats removing the ad banner at the bottom, everything else seems ok from my pov.
Not sure if that is illegal... but it could be...
Ok, it doesn't change the messenger EXE or DLLs, uses nothing but the API, doesn't use microsoft copyright stuff, and does nothing in any way insulting to microsoft.
Can't be illegal.
Patchou, your additions? You know your program inside-out, we don't...
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Patchou on 02-07-2003 at 10:10 PM
As Jon says, it's "questionable" .... what I do is not really illegal as I don't break the code. The only thing I could understand is that they ask me to remove my "remove banner" option which, by the way, I would do if they asked me. I really think that you don't have to matter because I'm just giving them a lot of publicity, there is no reason why they try to stop me to give them more users .
By the way Johnny, can you tell me from where you quoted this?
Patchou
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 12:37 AM
yeah were is the bit. i want to read it a bit more
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-08-2003 at 07:17 AM
Yep! Would like to know from where 
Regarding Banner issue. May be display it after a period of time from signing in, like 1 min after you sign in. 
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 07:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shine
Regarding Banner issue. May be display it after a period of time from signing in, like 1 min after you sign in.
Better idea it displays for 5 mins after signin for that day then disappears for the rest of the day
and then comes back the next day
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Chrono on 02-08-2003 at 09:10 AM
Very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very Legal 
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 09:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chrono
Very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very Legal
Wouldn't the system allow you to put any more very's in your post?
RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-08-2003 at 09:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
quote:Better idea it displays for 5 mins after signin for that day then disappears for the rest of the day
Originally posted by shine
Regarding Banner issue. May be display it after a period of time from signing in, like 1 min after you sign in.
and then comes back the next day
No you have problem with that banner when you sign in, because thats when you look for your online buddies, after that who cares about it
RE: RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 09:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shine
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
quote:Better idea it displays for 5 mins after signin for that day then disappears for the rest of the day
Originally posted by shine
Regarding Banner issue. May be display it after a period of time from signing in, like 1 min after you sign in.
and then comes back the next day
No you have problem with that banner when you sign in, because thats when you look for your online buddies, after that who cares about it
lol all my buddies seem to bug me before i even have the chance to open the main window lol
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-08-2003 at 10:07 AM
The quote was taken from a support msn newsgroup, where someone asked was it legal to use polygamy patches... Jonathan Kay told them that you could get them from mess, and as it didnt do any 'harm' he would tell you where to get it from.
But he proceeded to say the legality of polygamy is quiestioned, as it is of Plus!
Jonathan Kay can be found here if you'd like to mail him or anything:
http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/defau...p?icp=msn&slcid=US
(btw, this aint gonna be no war about how it is legal, so no mass e-mailing/posting or anything, simply an opinion...)
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 10:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
The quote was taken from a support msn newsgroup, where someone asked was it legal to use polygamy patches... Jonathan Kay told them that you could get them from mess, and as it didnt do any 'harm' he would tell you where to get it from.
But he proceeded to say the legality of polygamy is quiestioned, as it is of Plus!
Jonathan Kay can be found here if you'd like to mail him or anything:
http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/defau...p?icp=msn&slcid=US
(btw, this aint gonna be no war about how it is legal, so no mass e-mailing/posting or anything, simply an opinion...)
Which msn newsgroup would that be (BTW Thank You)
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 10:23 AM
ok save you lot going though the news groups:
quote:
Jonathan Kay
Subject: Re: more than 1 msn Attachments: None
From: "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> Sent: 2/6/2003 2:47:29 PM
Hi Daniel,
The original poster knew what they were looking for, and just wanted the site, that's why I
didn't go into the other options (Trillian, using Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger on XP,
etc.).
The legality issue is a bit gray -- even the legality of Messenger Plus is somewhat
questioned. However, in my own opinion (this isn't an interpretation of the EULA/Terms of
Use, or an official Microsoft response) as long as it's not harming Messenger (the service),
not harming users, not making the author a profit, and enhancing the Messenger user
experience, I don't see a problem with it.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
"Daniel Winter" <danielwinter@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:uOZrS9izCHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP09...
> Isnt that illegal?
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote in message
> news:#wDTszizCHA.1736@TK2MSFTNGP10...
> > Greetings,
> >
> > You can use a polygamy patch to do this. Just go to http://www.mess.be,
> click "Multiple MSN"
> > under File Downloads on the left.
> > ____________________________________________
> > Jonathan Kay
> > Windows MVP, Messenger
> > Associate Expert
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> > Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >
> > "raaji" <raaji78@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:042b01c2ce2c$629db220$d4f82ecf@TK2MSFTNGXA11...
> > > hi.just wondering how u can dwnload msn inorder 2 have
> > > more than 1 person logged on a time.so u can open up2 3
> > > different msn accounts for xample running at 1 time frm
> > > the same pc??????
> > > ne 1 know wat the website is 2 dwnload this?
> >
> >
>
>
I also just made some of his key points in bold
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-08-2003 at 10:41 AM
quote:
Jonathan Kay
...........as long as it's not harming Messenger (the service),
not harming users, not making the author a profit, and enhancing the Messenger user experience, I don't see a problem with it............
____________________________________________
All are satisfied... Patchou is making loss in terms of money
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 10:46 AM
Johnny_Mac just an idea but couldn't this issue be posted on Mess.be news the general idea because well many more people could have different views
RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 10:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shine
quote:
Jonathan Kay
...........as long as it's not harming Messenger (the service),
not harming users, not making the author a profit, and enhancing the Messenger user experience, I don't see a problem with it............
____________________________________________
All are satisfied... Patchou is making loss in terms of money
yes that was the reason i put the first two parts in bold and also he's also
quote:
Jonathan Kay
......enhancing the Messenger user experience......
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-08-2003 at 11:19 AM
quote:Id have to have more to talk about then "oh, some people think it isnt legal..."
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
Johnny_Mac just an idea but couldn't this issue be posted on Mess.be news the general idea because well many more people could have different views
Ovbiously... if anyone wants to post anything on mess they think should be heard/seen, then mail me at: johnny_mac@msgplus.net.
I'll read it and decide, etc..
RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 11:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
quote:Id have to have more to talk about then "oh, some people think it isnt legal..."
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
Johnny_Mac just an idea but couldn't this issue be posted on Mess.be news the general idea because well many more people could have different views
Ovbiously... if anyone wants to post anything on mess they think should be heard/seen, then mail me at: johnny_mac@msgplus.net.
I'll read it and decide, etc..
I mean like how you brought it to our attention so you don't post anything about our views (which makes it a fair report doesn't it?)
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-08-2003 at 11:30 AM
Mr Joe has even suggested the download site for Plus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: plus! version of messenger Attachments: None
From: "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> Sent: 11/13/2002 2:08:55 PM
Greetings Marilyn,
"Messenger Plus" is actually a third-party extension, that is current incompatible with 5.0
(which now that I think of it, may have been the cause of your problems).
You can download it here
http://www.patchou.com/msgplus/
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Marilyn" <mnmandm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7df01c28b60$b5ee4d90$37ef2ecf@TKMSFTNGXA13...
> Jonathan,
>
> I noticed the 4.6 is not the plus! version.. can you send
> me the link for the plus! version please?.. would
> appreciate it muchly...
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Marilyn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 11:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shine
Mr Joe has even suggested the download site for Plus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: plus! version of messenger Attachments: None
From: "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> Sent: 11/13/2002 2:08:55 PM
Greetings Marilyn,
"Messenger Plus" is actually a third-party extension, that is current incompatible with 5.0
(which now that I think of it, may have been the cause of your problems).
You can download it here
http://www.patchou.com/msgplus/
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Windows MVP, Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Marilyn" <mnmandm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7df01c28b60$b5ee4d90$37ef2ecf@TKMSFTNGXA13...
> Jonathan,
>
> I noticed the 4.6 is not the plus! version.. can you send
> me the link for the plus! version please?.. would
> appreciate it muchly...
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Marilyn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How far back did you go??? From: "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> Sent: 11/13/2002 2:08:55 PM
That topic was before MP2 was even dreamed of
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-08-2003 at 11:49 AM
Jonathan's a cool guy...
btw.. i'll think about the mess thing.
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
Jonathan's a cool guy...
He is.... in a way he'd make a good Mess.be Reporter lol (but then again would he have the time?)
RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-08-2003 at 12:09 PM
quote:I just wanted to point out he's suggested Plus
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
How far back did you go??? From: "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> Sent: 11/13/2002 2:08:55 PM
That topic was before MP2 was even dreamed of
BTW. That was the time we were really DREAMING of MP2
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-08-2003 at 12:13 PM
he seems to be just suggesting that the user should goto the old Patchou.com MsgPlus site for some support. That's all
RE: RE: RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by user2319 on 02-08-2003 at 04:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by shine
BTW. That was the time we were really DREAMING of MP2
yeah, I still remember, good old days, but now we dont dream about it anymore, We have it!!
Patchou
RE: RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-09-2003 at 04:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Jones
he seems to be just suggesting that the user should goto the old Patchou.com MsgPlus site for some support. That's all
Did you read the whole thing
quote:
"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com>
You can download it here
http://www.patchou.com/msgplus/
That user was asking where she/he can get Plus and he replied to her. Its crystal clear
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Digi Guy on 02-09-2003 at 05:57 AM
* Digi Guy must be going blind
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Guido on 02-13-2003 at 03:08 PM
quote:he doesn't "represent" microsoft, he's just an addict to newsgroups(
Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
Quote of Jonathan Kay who represent Microsoft with MSn Messenger issues...
) that is in microsoft's website for being an enormous poster in msn messenger newsgroup and helping many people. He was the star in the Windows Messenger 5 discussion too ... so , he's not an employee of MS
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-13-2003 at 05:12 PM
Ok, well i know what you mean... maybe representative is a bad word, but he does frequently talk with microsoft... he's not exactly just a know it all user. he does run a website on msn and have his own personal one.
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by dwergs on 02-18-2003 at 01:35 PM
Final Results of the Mess.be poll:
Do you think Messenger Plus! 2 is a LEGAL add-on?
Sure, Microsoft has nothing to nag about 56.4%
===
Leave out the "Remove Banner Ad" option and it's 100% legal 24.7%
===
Some parts of the add-on are questionnable 10.8%
===
It's illegal, no doubt about it 8.1%
===
Total: 2390
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Johnny_Mac on 02-18-2003 at 02:27 PM
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by shine on 02-19-2003 at 04:58 AM
Pretty good Results - 71% positive
RE: Legality of Messenger Plus! by Chrono on 02-19-2003 at 06:12 AM
Good results !