Download.com bans Messenger Plus! - Printable Version
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Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Zephyr on 04-29-2005 at 12:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mess.be
CNET Download.com, world's most popular download site, on Thursday banned all software titles bundled with adware. The step was taken based on visitor's letters, user reviews, and polls, which all showed a strong disliking towards software bundled with adware.
The move affected only a tiny percentage, about 600, of the site's programs. Included in the banishment is Messenger Plus!, which clearly demonstrates the zero-tolerance policy towards all bundled adware, even though "it's optional"
Our own CustoMess software for MSN Messenger 7 is, of course, still available at CNET Downoad.com because it really is free and free of crap.
Just saw this on mess.be. It really does show how much people are against bundled adware even though the program is amazing.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Tourist on 04-29-2005 at 12:46 PM
It's understandable, Plus! carries Adware.. I'm sure it won't make a difference to the dowload traffic for Plus!
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Zephyr on 04-29-2005 at 12:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tourist
It's understandable, Plus! carries Adware.. I'm sure it won't make a difference to the dowload traffic for Plus!
I'm sure it won't as all the people i know only download it from msgplus.net. It's just annoying that some people have such a bad view of plus! because of the sponsor.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by surfichris on 04-29-2005 at 01:48 PM
quote:However, download.com is where a lot of new people come from who are looking for new programs and such -it's now a globally recognised site.
Originally posted by Tourist
It's understandable, Plus! carries Adware.. I'm sure it won't make a difference to the dowload traffic for Plus!
quote:Exactly, people you know who know where to get it and know what it is. New users who are looking for an addon to messenger or such looking on download.com may not be able to find it.
Originally posted by monster.rat
I'm sure it won't as all the people i know only download it from msgplus.net
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by XM4ST3RX on 04-29-2005 at 02:29 PM
Hi,
Download.com bad move... they should have kept programs with OPTIONAL adware, like Plus!
Kind Regards,
XM4ST3RX
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by absorbation on 04-29-2005 at 02:58 PM
Real bad move they will lose money and it tells you if a program contains adware or not in there description of the program
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by M73A on 04-29-2005 at 03:22 PM
meh, downloading it from download.com shouldn't happen imo
messenger plus! download it from the msgplus.net webpage...duh
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Millenium_edition on 04-29-2005 at 03:25 PM
are you all missing the point that internet newbies will just type in www.download.com and type in "msn messenger" to find some fun stuff? getting removed from there decreases popularity by far... 
of course, it's not like it's a BIG drop for msgplus, but for other, less popular applications, this is important.
it still represents a large number of users 
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by user27089 on 04-29-2005 at 03:41 PM
Maybe all of us should complain to download.com, I can't see why they should remove programs that are bundled with optional adware...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Millenium_edition on 04-29-2005 at 03:46 PM
quote:because they are still bundled with adware... it's not because it's optional & because we love msgplus that they're going to make an exception...
Originally posted by traxor
Maybe all of us should complain to download.com, I can't see why they should remove programs that are bundled with optional adware...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by user27089 on 04-29-2005 at 03:51 PM
quote:
Dear Mr Arpijian,
I can completely understatnd why you would want to remove any programs from your website that bundle adware, but I can't see the point in your decision if you remove pieces of software that are widely used containing OPTIONAL adware, this includes the amazing extension for MSN Messenger, "Messenger Plus!", that is created by Patchou.
Messenger Plus! does not tolerate any spyware or un-optional adware, there is a clear choice if you want to adware or not... I know that it is C2Media, and it is apparently "hard" to remove, I have found a lot of times that I have removed it easily. I even have a website called "Messenger Plus! Support" which can be found here: http://www.mpsupport.net.
If you were to use any older version of Messenger Plus! then you would also notice that over the years, the optional sponsor program has changed along with it, definitely improving, this goes from the understanding area, to how to remove and to even the content itself. As Patchou has changed the "Sponsor Agreement" on many occasions, it is now increasingly understandable, and quite obvious that it is optional, and that installing it would install the adware. Patchou has also stripped down the adware, with permission from lop.com, so that it doesn't contain any pornographic material, or malicious content... In the latter version of Messenger Plus!, Patchou has also changed the way that you can uninstall the Optional Sponsor Program, giving you a choice of whether you want to uninstall just the c2media package, or messenger plus! aswell, this includes a folder being placed in C:/Program Files/ called "C2Media", this folder contains the uninstaller... The only way that this sponsor program is made difficult to uninstall, is if Antivirus programs or Adware/Spyware removal programs are installed...
I urge you to reconsider your "policy", which I completely understand, as you are just protecting the computers of those that are recent or new users of this great website, but if the sponsor is optional, which it is in many programs now, then you should just have a warning, but also state that it's optional...
Yours faithfully,
Luke Jones (Traxor)
----------------------------------
http://mpsupport.net
Frequent user of http://shoutbox.menthix.net (Messenger Plus! Community)
Millenium,
Regardless, we should still try and get them to have programs on there that the adware is optional... Aww well, sent it now anyway
<3
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by ~INVASION~ on 04-29-2005 at 03:55 PM
Good job Traxor that very proffesional but i still think it will stay banned because it does come with adware :/ even tho its optional, its still there.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by The Napster on 04-29-2005 at 04:12 PM
How come cant some people see the Optional Part in it...
Although i do think that the move by Download.com, although they could also just decalre taht it has spy-/ad-ware.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by user27089 on 04-29-2005 at 04:14 PM
That's what I don't get, why can't people just read and stuff, if they don't read something right, then the blame somebody else for their mistakes...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Guido on 04-29-2005 at 05:16 PM
I actually prefer this move. If users went to download.com and searched for MSN Messenger to find fun stuff, and met with ~70% negative comments in Messenger Plus! saying it fuxs up their computer, etc. (I know it doesn't, I just mean that the msgplus entry there was full of such comments), they will for sure not download it.
That's my view, at least: there's now one site less of those filled with misinformation about Messenger Plus.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by .Roy on 04-29-2005 at 05:41 PM
I also agree with this move. Not because it blocks Messenger Plus! But most programs that I download from there I don't want to have Spyware or any ware in them. It's like getting a firewall. Might block some of the good things but it defends you from the bad. Its a good change they did.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Guido on 04-29-2005 at 06:05 PM
quote:Agreed. If there's a great software like Plus, chances are you'll hear of it elsewhere. It's nice to know you can trust 100% of the software in Download.com now, since previously there were LOTS of small programs really full of forced spyware and adware, unlike Plus, and there was little to no alert about it.
Originally posted by Hobbes
I also agree with this move. Not because it blocks Messenger Plus! But most programs that I download from there I don't want to have Spyware or any ware in them. It's like getting a firewall. Might block some of the good things but it defends you from the bad. Its a good change they did.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by absorbation on 04-29-2005 at 07:05 PM
There going to lose money full stop.
What happenes to the people that paid for their program to be used?
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by vashnik on 04-29-2005 at 08:39 PM
the only adware you see is the sponser program, which last i knew you had the option of NOT installing the Sponser Program. So if people dont like spyware, then dont install the Sponser Program. Simple as that.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by .Roy on 04-29-2005 at 08:42 PM
quote:You think people are smart enough to not install it.
Originally posted by vashnik
the only adware you see is the sponser program, which last i knew you had the option of NOT installing the Sponser Program. So if people dont like spyware, then dont install the Sponser Program. Simple as that.
Basically the installer has the capability of carrying spyware which is what they are against. No matter if you can choose this.
I always wanted a download site without Bundled Software
And now there is one. Probobly half of the programs and files on Download.com were bundled. Now Download.com saved themselves a lot of space and bandwith. I think this will also discourage people to make bundled softwares
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Millenium_edition on 04-29-2005 at 08:46 PM
quote:that has never been a problem for them
Originally posted by Hobbes
Now Download.com saved themselves a lot of space and bandwith
quote:as a helper you should know that the installer doesn't contain any spyware
Originally posted by Hobbes
Basically the installer has the capability of carrying spyware which is what they are against.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by c00ly on 04-29-2005 at 09:40 PM
Excellant.
face facts people. spy/adware slows down your computer, internet, and could make you be forced to wipe your pc.
Oh, Get spybot and adaware and all the other spyware removers, you say. Its not enough and it wont be.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by war59312 on 04-30-2005 at 03:22 AM
Hey,
I like the move as well.
Now why can't there just be two version of Plus?
One with optional ad-ware like it is now and one without. Only give download.com the one without optional ad-aware.
Seems pretty simple solution to me. Think it's worth accommodating download.com on this issue for reasons already stated and a few others I'm sure most of us are aware of.
Take Care,
Will
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 04-30-2005 at 03:25 AM
Im going to have to agree with Downoad.com's new policy.
Adware is very annonying and a message has to be send to the companies making it that it shouldnt be acceptable.
As for Msg Plus! I feel that a move to maybe some sort of internal ad in the program itself (maybe an ad displayed on install and in the options box or something) is the way to proceed.
I doubt contacting download.com will do anything though. The kind of language they are using like "NO EXCEPTIONS" and ZERO - TOLERANCE" I dont think they will budge.
their previous policy was only to allow programs that tell you its bundled (like msgplus) Allowing msgplus back would set a precedent that would allow all the other programs they removed back on.
Its not going to happen
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Hank on 04-30-2005 at 04:49 AM
quote:totally agree with u Guido
Originally posted by Guido
I actually prefer this move. If users went to download.com and searched for MSN Messenger to find fun stuff, and met with ~70% negative comments in Messenger Plus! saying it fuxs up their computer, etc. (I know it doesn't, I just mean that the msgplus entry there was full of such comments), they will for sure not download it.
That's my view, at least: there's now one site less of those filled with misinformation about Messenger Plus.
, nothing worse than seeing so many negative reviews about it really puts the User Down an think twice about downloading it again, so if its removed from download.com there gonna have to find it by going to google an locating the Main site an then Maybe Joiniung the Forums an actually hearing the good reviews about it RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 04-30-2005 at 05:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by war59312
Hey,
I like the move as well.
Now why can't there just be two version of Plus?
One with optional ad-ware like it is now and one without. Only give download.com the one without optional ad-aware.
Seems pretty simple solution to me. Think it's worth accommodating download.com on this issue for reasons already stated and a few others I'm sure most of us are aware of.
Take Care,
Will
This sounds good in theory, but then Patchou has no income, without an income he cannot continue to build msgplus!
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Hank on 04-30-2005 at 06:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by war59312
Now why can't there just be two version of Plus?
Would be a Waste of Patchou's time an prolly Money
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Anubis on 04-30-2005 at 07:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Demz
quote:
Originally posted by war59312
Now why can't there just be two version of Plus?
Would be a Waste of Patchou's time an prolly Money
I support this move, it seems wise to make it so you don't get adware every time you get one of these free programs and have to clean it out, however sometimes they need to know where to draw the line, this time I believe they just went a little over by banning optional adware programs, to which the software and it's purpose couldn't be more clearly outlined.
No, it wouldn't be hard to do, just change the installer and remove the sponsor program from it. However if there are two versions (one with the sponsor and one without) it would confuse many people as to what version to get.
Also other sites would start only linking to the version without the sponsor program, and then if people look for the program there and think "Ok, I'll install the sponsor to support this project" they won't be able to without finding another version and getting that. It would just get to be a large carry on, because no one would give the link to the one with the sponsor program. Patchou's income would go down and then Patchou, looking for alternative sources of more income, wouldn't be able to keep Plus up to it's high standards.
If Traxor's e-mail doesn't persuade them, and tbh I doubt they will take much (if any) notice, I will send a similar e-mail to them, and I urge everyone else to. Not just to be a pain in the arse
. But the site is a global download database that CNET made for the people, so if enough of the people object, they may take notice. But it may take a large amount of people to get them to do anything.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 04-30-2005 at 08:13 AM
Look, im sure they are going to have alot more people happy with their new policy than there are against it. I just dont see them doing a backflip to their old policy. It would look bad for them, esp with the language they are using atm. Only 600 sites were removed out of thousands so i doubt they are going to take any notice
Now i would really support internal advertsing in the program itself.
Adware should not be supported.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Poom on 04-30-2005 at 08:16 AM
MSN Users must have heard of Messenger Plus by the way. I mean all my friend know Plus. Download.com won't affect much I think.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by user35870 on 04-30-2005 at 08:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
I will send a similar e-mail to them, and I urge everyone else to. Not just to be a pain in the arse
I will send an email
I think they should allow optional adware programs.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 04-30-2005 at 08:24 AM
*stares at the massive bold "NO EXCEPTIONS" banner on their home page...*
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by .Roy on 04-30-2005 at 08:27 AM
quote:I dont think this would do anything. It's just a waste of time. They had already made ther choice. They aren't going to change it.
Originally posted by chris100
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
I will send a similar e-mail to them, and I urge everyone else to. Not just to be a pain in the arse
I will send an email
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Anubis on 04-30-2005 at 09:11 AM
quote:Their choice most likely didn't take optional adware into account, and I would like to hear their opinion on optional adware, I would like to hear their opinion on it.
Originally posted by Hobbes
I dont think this would do anything. It's just a waste of time. They had already made ther choice. They aren't going to change it.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chrono on 04-30-2005 at 09:31 AM
quote:it wouldnt work, people would start spreading that link insteald of the one in msghelp.net (even i would give the link to the non-sponsored plus! version to my friends who dont read agreements, so they dont complain after installing it
Originally posted by war59312
Now why can't there just be two version of Plus?
One with optional ad-ware like it is now and one without. Only give download.com the one without optional ad-aware.
)
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 04-30-2005 at 09:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
quote:Their choice most likely didn't take optional adware into account, and I would like to hear their opinion on optional adware, I would like to hear their opinion on it.
Originally posted by Hobbes
I dont think this would do anything. It's just a waste of time. They had already made ther choice. They aren't going to change it.
Actually their original policy was to disallow programs with CONCEALED adware in it. There was none of that there in the first place.
They allowed programs with OPTIONAL adware in their old poilicy (hence why plus! was allowed.)
Their new policy goes further, not olny disallowing concealed adware, but also optional adware as well.
So you already know their opinion on it. Their new policy IS to remove programs with OPTIONAL adware in it. If they allowed optional adware it would be a COMPLETE reversal of their new policy. It wont happen.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 04-30-2005 at 12:22 PM
This puts Patchou in a really weird position. The whole point of the current competition is to promote Plus! To let more users know about it and the benefits it has. Not only does this help the users themselves by enhancing their messaging experience in the long run it supports Patchou even more so that he can continue to make a better program! (An example of this is the new servers that Patchou has to constantly maintain and pay for himself.)
So by Msgplus being removed by download.com you'd also think other download sources might in the long run start doing the same if people respond to it as a positive thing (which i can't see why they wouldn't). This is completely opposite to what Patchou was intending with the current competition.
If Patchou does remove the optional sponsor then even with more visibility on the internet leading to more users downloading it then his income will disappear. I'm sure advertisements will bring in some money but will it be enough to keep Patchou coding msgplus? More and more users will mean that more sound servers will be needed in the future also if this feature keeps up its popularity.
I wonder what Patch will do/say to this
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Sjoerd_ on 04-30-2005 at 12:27 PM
I think we have to see this matter in two divided parts.
More and more people find out how much trouble spyware and adware can cause you. Websites like download.com take advantage of this by stating that they have a clear policy against it.
Although things like this might not be very nice for the spreading of Messenger Plus! I think download.com is going the right way by simply disallowing everything that has anything to do with spyware and/or adware on their website.
Of course I love Messenger Plus! like most of us but I think the sponsor is a bit overkill... I do want to offer my support but I don't want my computer full of ads for a "simple plugin"... So I'm also not going to defend it here...
Ask yourself... Do you love Messenger Plus!? Do you want to support it? Then why didn't you accept the sponsor...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 04-30-2005 at 12:36 PM
Yes I share the same sentiments as sjoerd_ I want to support plus! but not by having my computer full of adware......the sponsor program is a bit of overkill imho.
Advertising will provide revenue, but not as much as currently comes in through adware.. But i think that ethically the sponsor be removed and other revenue sources that are less intrusive to peoples computers (these are the computers of the millions of people who support msgplus!). Im sure a variety of other revenue sources could be found.
Patch does have a bit of a wierd situation on his hands as you say chestah
It will be interesting to see what patch has to say when he returns.
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by CookieRevised on 04-30-2005 at 02:57 PM
quote:No it doesn't...
Originally posted by Chestah
This puts Patchou in a really weird position.
quote:The point is to promote Messenger Plus!, not to promote all the various unofficial sources where you can download Messenger Plus!.
Originally posted by Chestah
The whole point of the current competition is to promote Plus! To let more users know about it and the benefits it has.
Although, less people will stumble across Messenger Plus! now, this doesn't mean it goes against the purpose of promoting it...
quote:(thus) No it isn't... The competition/promotion is for Messenger Plus! itself (and to download it from the official site, not for all the unofficial sources to download from.)
Originally posted by Chestah
So by Msgplus being removed by download.com you'd also think other download sources might in the long run start doing the same if people respond to it as a positive thing (which i can't see why they wouldn't). This is completely opposite to what Patchou was intending with the current competition.
quote:
Originally posted by Sjoerd_
Of course I love Messenger Plus! like most of us but I think the sponsor is a bit overkill... I do want to offer my support but I don't want my computer full of ads for a "simple plugin"...
quote:Then buy something from the Online Store, it's there especially for that purpose...
Originally posted by -rafy-
Yes I share the same sentiments as sjoerd_ I want to support plus! but not by having my computer full of adware......the sponsor program is a bit of overkill imho.
quote:This has been discussed so many times. No there aren't any other revenue sources to be found.... (unless you name one, and Patchou would be happy to hear about it)
Originally posted by -rafy-
But i think that ethically the sponsor be removed and other revenue sources that are less intrusive to peoples computers (these are the computers of the millions of people who support msgplus!). Im sure a variety of other revenue sources could be found.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Dempsey on 04-30-2005 at 04:38 PM
quote:But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Then buy something from the Online Store, it's there especially for that purpose...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Anubis on 04-30-2005 at 04:59 PM
quote:Indeed. Anything you pay gets doubled and sent to the red cross.
Originally posted by Dempsey
But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Guido on 04-30-2005 at 06:22 PM
quote:(and that can only be done because there is a sponsor in Plus. Don't even dream about that, about free PSPs and laptops, and about huge expensive servers running a sound emotions feature, if there wasn't an optional sponsor)
Originally posted by Anubis
quote:Indeed. Anything you pay gets doubled and sent to the red cross.
Originally posted by Dempsey
But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?
As Cookie mentioned, this has been gone over lots of times. Trust me, if Patchou had a better way of making money from his free software, he would be using it. Needless to say he doesn't like to be bashed in so many sites on the web for this "forced spyware" which is just clearly optional adware, but if he has to choose between quitting developing Plus and looking for an average job, or making money out of Plus, giving a part to the red cross, giving another part to users in the way of prizes, being able to mantain costly features (sounds) and sites (such as this very server, which IIRC is paid by the sponsor) and living as he deserves to live, then hell he'd chose the second option. And he has every right to do so.
A great move by Download.com. Unfortunately, most of the software with adware or spyware isn't as great as Messenger Plus!, many hide it in obfuscated setups or just don't give you an option to avoid it (i.e. Kazaa Media Desktop). Many are crappy programs that just live to make money from adware (read: weather icons, supposed spyware cleaners, etc.). Now Download.com is finally clean of all that. If Msgplus had to be removed, well, so be it. Download.com is not the primary source for Msgplus downloads anyway, and people are going to hear about its great features in any case.
That's my view about it. It doesn't affect Msgplus significantly, and it benefits us as Download.com users.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chris4 on 04-30-2005 at 11:34 PM
well said Guido 
Messenger Plus! advertisements are directed to Msgplus.net
Most people who download Msg Plus! from Download.com, just come across it. I'm sure they will hear about it somewhere else, as it is described as the "Number One MSN Messenger Add-on"
Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 05-01-2005 at 02:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by Chestah
This puts Patchou in a really weird position.
No it doesn't...
Reasons? People are continually becomming more conscious of spyware/adware etc and even though we know that it is not this and its merely an optional sponsor the average public don't know this. No matter how much advertising and helping people, some just won't understand and will not use plus - this may be a minority but i can only see this increasing in the future. As people learn more about spyware they'll just categorise msgplus! as bad straight away before even investigating that its optional.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point is to promote Messenger Plus!, not to promote all the various unofficial sources where you can download Messenger Plus!.
Although, less people will stumble across Messenger Plus! now, this doesn't mean it goes against the purpose of promoting it...
Patchou wants maximum visibility with the new version of Plus! Esp. because of the new custom emote sound feature which will attract even more users! The point of this competition is to let more people know about Plus! hence more people downloading it and using it!
Its discouraging while in the background many unofficial download sources that inevitably promote Plus through visibility are removing Plus! from their sites! As i said above: as more people are becomming aware of what dangerous spyware can do companies are mass producing anti-spyware software that catergorises Plus! as dangerous for your computer - even though we know even if the sponsor is installed its not dangerous at all, the general public will believe their anti-spyware software.
Basicially what i was saying is that Patchou wants to promote Plus! Get more people using it and hence he can continue to add even greater features due to a greater profit in the long term that he couldn't do before without this (Custom sounds servers). All the background activity going on at the moment which i only see to increase in the future is going against Patchou's original purpose of this promotion.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
(thus) No it isn't... The competition/promotion is for Messenger Plus! itself (and to download it from the official site, not for all the unofficial sources to download from.)
Yes the competition is to promote Plus! - so more people will start using Patchou's software. Promotion = Attracting more users. With download.com simply removing programs such as Plus! this will automatically slightly lower the amount of new users downloading Plus! Initially this might not be much, except more people as a result of this will more vary of what Plus! contains in the installer and as a result a possible multiplyer effect in the future could happen. More sites might remove plus or contain negative publicity = less users downloading.
quote:
Originally posted by chris4
Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.
True for the meanwhile, but as i've said above: more people are starting to think Plus! contains dangerous spyware and as more sites follow download.com's example this means even more (slightly) people won't know about plus that their could be if their was no sponsor. Also theres the issue with anti-spyware programs.
That's why Patchou's in a slightly strange predicament. He needs the optional sponsor program to live and to continue programming Plus! I'm sure that if everyone realised that the sponsor was not dangerous and it was completely optional there would be no problems. But not everyone knows this, espicially people that don't know alot about computers. All the recent action against programs even containing optional sponsor programs in the future could be even worse for Plus! and Patchou.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by -rafy- on 05-01-2005 at 02:19 AM
Yes agreed.
Many people are simply just labeling plus spyware and not using it at all. I'm sure you have all seen the thousands of "Is plus spyware threads" all over the internet. (In fact there was a new one on this forum today) The fact is some people do not know its optional, hell they dont even know its there untill they see its effects.
Remember most people who use plus are probally less computer illiterate than us. And when they think something is spyware, they will tell their friends not to download it etc etc......
And the trouble, the time, the effort taken for these people to work out how to get rid of it is enourmous.
A battle is being fought against adware by the majority of internet users. Seems funny that we here are the ones that are supporting it.
Adware is giving Msgplus! a bad repuatition in the wider msn community.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 05-01-2005 at 02:24 AM
Exactly Rafy! It doesn't matter in the scheme of things that Plus! merely contains an optional sponsor. Download sites, anti-spyware programs, people that just don't know the exact differences about Plus's sponsor compared to dangerous spyware are creating bad publicity for Plus!
In a time when Patchou wants more users to use msgplus! because of the fabulous new custom emoticon sound feature and all this is happening (and i believe will have a multiplication effect in the near future with other sites/people following incorrect information) it is not good for Plus!
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Hank on 05-01-2005 at 03:06 AM
agree's with Cookie Chest, an Cookie is right, , just cause Download.cpom has removed MsgPlus from there download really doesnt Harm patchou at all,
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by CookieRevised on 05-01-2005 at 12:07 PM
quote:And that is a good thing. People should be aware of which things are what.
Originally posted by Chestah
quote:Reasons? People are continually becomming more conscious of spyware/adware etc
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:No it doesn't...
Originally posted by Chestah
This puts Patchou in a really weird position.
quote:On the contrary, if people learn more about spyware and adware and stuff, they become more aware to read stuff, learn stuff, know stuff, etc and less people will categorize Plus! as bad malicious spyware, but rather as a program containing optional adware, which is, after all, the truth...
Originally posted by Chestah
and even though we know that it is not this and its merely an optional sponsor the average public don't know this. No matter how much advertising and helping people, some just won't understand and will not use plus - this may be a minority but i can only see this increasing in the future. As people learn more about spyware they'll just categorise msgplus! as bad straight away before even investigating that its optional.
quote:Yes, but not by downloading it from various unofficial sites. There is a massive huge difference between promoting Plus!, and promoting to download it from unofficial sites (which is NOT a good thing).
Originally posted by Chestah
quote:Patchou wants maximum visibility with the new version of Plus! Esp. because of the new custom emote sound feature which will attract even more users! The point of this competition is to let more people know about Plus! hence more people downloading it and using it!
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point is to promote Messenger Plus!, not to promote all the various unofficial sources where you can download Messenger Plus!. Although, less people will stumble across Messenger Plus! now, this doesn't mean it goes against the purpose of promoting it...
quote:You are putting things too much on 1 heap (is that an english expression?):
Originally posted by Chestah
Its discouraging while in the background many unofficial download sources that inevitably promote Plus through visibility are removing Plus! from their sites! As i said above: as more people are becomming aware of what dangerous spyware can do companies are mass producing anti-spyware software that catergorises Plus! as dangerous for your computer - even though we know even if the sponsor is installed its not dangerous at all, the general public will believe their anti-spyware software.
It is not because 1 company has now a zero-tolerance to any form of advertising that suddenly everybody is going to make anti-spyware software that will categorise Plus! as being bad and that everybody is blindly going to believe that....
And besides, what is wrong with a zero-tolerance to advertising? They didn't say Plus! is a malicous spyware, didn't they? And companies which make anti-spyware software do not depend on such download sites to base their findings on either.
Those two things aren't related.
quote:Nope, it isn't....
Originally posted by Chestah
All the background activity going on at the moment which i only see to increase in the future is going against Patchou's original purpose of this promotion.
quote:Promotion = Attracting more users => means attracting more users to www.msgplus.net, not to download.com!
Originally posted by Chestah
Yes the competition is to promote Plus! - so more people will start using Patchou's software. Promotion = Attracting more users. With download.com simply removing programs such as Plus! this will automatically slightly lower the amount of new users downloading Plus!
And tbh, download.com wasn't much of a promotion to Plus! anyways if you read all the stupid comments from people. Removing Plus! from there can be actually a good thing...
quote:No... If it isn't on download.com in the first place, it will not have stupid and false comments which say it contains spyware in the first place... (as it are those comments on such sites which people base their "findings" on)
Originally posted by Chestah
quote:True for the meanwhile, but as i've said above: more people are starting to think Plus! contains dangerous spyware
Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.
quote:Errrmm... hu? The only disadvantage from removing it from download.com is that people will not know about the existence of Plus! if they go to there. Unless they visit decent sites which state the truth about it (mess.be, fanatic, plus forums, etc). The big advantages is that stupid anti-Plus! comments aren't present anymore on download.com and above all can't be read and believed by those new people.
Originally posted by Chestah
and as more sites follow download.com's example this means even more (slightly) people won't know about plus that their could be if their was no sponsor.
quote:These have nothing todo with the download.com issue at all.
Originally posted by Chestah
Also theres the issue with anti-spyware programs.
quote:Hence removing Plus! from sites where any dipsh*t can enter a comment can be a good thing...
Originally posted by Chestah
I'm sure that if everyone realised that the sponsor was not dangerous and it was completely optional there would be no problems. But not everyone knows this, espicially people that don't know alot about computers.
If it means that thousand ("stupid") people can't read, believe and spread the false comments anymore, against a few hundred (sensible) people who can read between the BS and who otherwise would download Plus!, then it is a very good thing (even good for the promotion).
"better no promotion then bad promotion"
quote:they label it as that mostly because they read the comments on it on sites like download.com...
Originally posted by -rafy-
Many people are simply just labeling plus spyware and not using it at all. I'm sure you have all seen the thousands of "Is plus spyware threads" all over the internet. (In fact there was a new one on this forum today) The fact is some people do not know its optional, hell they dont even know its there untill they see its effects.
quote:1) And thus can't distinguish between a true comment and a false comment on such sites.
Originally posted by -rafy-
Remember most people who use plus are probally less computer illiterate than us.
2) And thus didn't know that Plus! once was available on download.com in the first place (to wonder why it was removed).
quote:We are not supporting that. We are supporting the fact that people should be AWARE of which things are what and which things they install and what those software packages do... aka: we support "knowledge"...
Originally posted by -rafy-
A battle is being fought against adware by the majority of internet users. Seems funny that we here are the ones that are supporting it.
If people are "educated" (wha, fancy word
), like we try to do here, they become aware of the major differences in spyware, adware, virusses, etc and there wouldn't be any problem in the first place.This is just the same as the fact that I never was (and never will be) a big supporter of direct download/mirror links to software on unofficial sites but rather direct links to informative official sites where the user has all the crucial info he needs...
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Guido on 05-01-2005 at 05:36 PM
quote:That's all and great, but what's your solution? Removing the sponsor? Replacing it with an ad banner in the preferences panel? That would:
Originally posted by Chestah
It doesn't matter in the scheme of things that Plus! merely contains an optional sponsor. Download sites, anti-spyware programs, people that just don't know the exact differences about Plus's sponsor compared to dangerous spyware are creating bad publicity for Plus!
In a time when Patchou wants more users to use msgplus! because of the fabulous new custom emoticon sound feature and all this is happening (and i believe will have a multiplication effect in the near future with other sites/people following incorrect information) it is not good for Plus!
a) increase Plus popularity significantly
b) decrease Patchou's income completely or significantly
c) make features such as the one you mention, sound emotions, financially inviable. They are not free to run.
If you have a better viable solution, then please let us know about it. I'm sure Patchou is all for improving Plus (he showed it several times when forcing the sponsor company to change the agreement, etc.).
We know many people don't understand that it is optional adware and that there is no harm if they don't accept it, but that's how things are. We know many will just prefer to bash Patchou and Plus! in as many websites as they find without even checking the facts before. But there isn't a better solution so far. That's the only way of Plus surviving, and more than 10 million people seem to prefer having a gentle question in the setup than seeing Plus die while Patchou looks for another full-time job to live.
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 05-02-2005 at 06:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Guido
That's all and great, but what's your solution? Removing the sponsor? Replacing it with an ad banner in the preferences panel? That would:
a) increase Plus popularity significantly
b) decrease Patchou's income completely or significantly
c) make features such as the one you mention, sound emotions, financially inviable. They are not free to run.
I don't have one solution that i can give that would increase Plus's! popularity while increasing Patchou's income and allowing more expensive features to remain. Its a tricky situation
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
This is just the same as the fact that I never was (and never will be) a big supporter of direct download/mirror links to software on unofficial sites but rather direct links to informative official sites where the user has all the crucial info he needs...
Very good point Cookie
, i understand what you mean in that regard. But even though more people are becomming aware about the effects of spyware not everyone will therefore distinguish Plus as being A) Optional &
B) A unevasive sponsor which is easily uninstalled.
Some people will do the opposite and start categorising everything remotely near spyware as it. You must know this as you hear it on the forums all the time, its reoccurent - its not going to stop as people learn more about spyware. Sure theres going to be a large amount of people that will finally understand that Plus! does not damage your system. But theres also going to be people that will falsely accuse Plus! of being malacious as the issue of spyware increases.
An example of this is my grandmother, i go to her house and try and help her with her computer and half my software i can't even install because it might be spyware and might delete all her thousands of photos! She hears anything on trusted sources and then takes it a step further and believes that anything remotely near spyware (optional sponors) is not good!
Nice discussion we have going here though, you can see the whole arugment from multiple sides
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Patchou on 05-05-2005 at 12:01 AM
Thanks for the support and the comments everyone. Don't worry, download.com informed me of their decision a month ago already... I didn't get that much downloads from that site anywhere so my official position is simply: I don't care .
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Menthix on 05-05-2005 at 12:19 AM
All i ever noticed from download.com was people spreading rumours about very agressive spyware/viruses and even people saying the sponsor will install even if you choose not to. Plus! might even get more downloads instead of less because those bad reviews been deleted too 
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by XM4ST3RX on 05-05-2005 at 12:20 AM
Hi,
It's just nowt about removing the sponsor because Patchou wont be able to keep the servers up for certain features etc...
This is Patchou's full-time job... so without income, he will be unable to live. This would force him into getting another job and quitting development on Messenger Plus!
Kind Regards,
XM4ST3RX
RE: RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by alewington on 05-05-2005 at 01:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by traxor
Maybe all of us should complain to download.com, I can't see why they should remove programs that are bundled with optional adware...
Im with traxtor; lets all complain to download.com!
what about adding it again, adding a sponser removing patch or just adding it without the sponser (to download.com)?
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by CookieRevised on 05-05-2005 at 01:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chestah
Nice discussion we have going here though, you can see the whole arugment from multiple sides
quote:exactly!
Originally posted by Menthix
All i ever noticed from download.com was people spreading rumours about very agressive spyware/viruses and even people saying the sponsor will install even if you choose not to. Plus! might even get more downloads instead of less because those bad reviews been deleted too
quote:wont do any good; will not have any result...
Originally posted by alewington
Im with traxtor; lets all complain to download.com!
quote:That's not up to "us" (or Patchou) to decide. It's download.com who decides.
Originally posted by alewington
what about adding it again
quote:This will never happen and is also not needed since you can choose to not install the sponsor, or uninstall the sponsor by normal means.
Originally posted by alewington
adding a sponser removing patch
quote:Will never happen. There will always be only 1 version of Messenger Plus!.
Originally posted by alewington
or just adding it without the sponser (to download.com)?
PS: don't double post!
RE: Download.com bans Messenger Plus! by Chestah on 05-05-2005 at 10:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
Thanks for the support and the comments everyone. Don't worry, download.com informed me of their decision a month ago already... I didn't get that much downloads from that site anywhere so my official position is simply: I don't care
If it doesn't affect Plus! in the short term then i spose it doesn't matter
- lets hope the anti-spyware programs that are incorrectly stating that Plus! is spyware fix up their mistakes soon as well .quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by alewington
or just adding it without the sponser (to download.com)?
Will never happen. There will always be only 1 version of Messenger Plus!.
If Patchou made 2 versions of msgplus!, one without the optional sponsor and one without do you think anyone would download the one with it? Not only would it be a larger filesize but it would contain the chance of people misreading and installing the sponsor.