better way for checking for Plus! - Printable Version
-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: Messenger Plus! for Live Messenger (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---- Forum: WLM Plus! General (/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+----- Thread: better way for checking for Plus! (/showthread.php?tid=50369)
better way for checking for Plus! by lylesback2 on 09-11-2005 at 05:37 PM
Is there away for better of indicating if people have plus! installed or not..
i know the /ping and then check /info, but then i gotta check all 200+ contacts
say i check them all.. how can i remember if they have plus! installed? could there be an icon, or some form of text indicating they use Plus!?
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Stigmata on 09-11-2005 at 05:59 PM
it has been suggested before. but nothing came of it..
i believe it should be implimented.
we already have a key for each contact in the registry, why not another entry?
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Sypher on 09-11-2005 at 07:36 PM
It can a bit like handshaking. When you open a convo maybe Plus! can send a special character, without seeing (direct /clear or something?)
Just a tought though
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by RaceProUK on 09-12-2005 at 12:21 PM
Many solutions have been discussed, and so far every one of them has been deemed to involve an invasion of privacy. Anyway, the /ping command is already a sort of handshake.
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by mordero on 09-22-2005 at 04:14 PM
He has already used the ping command on all of him, now he wants a better way to see if they have Plus! installed (like an icon or something) other thank going through the contact information
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by pollolibredegrasa on 09-22-2005 at 06:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by lylesback2
say i check them all.. how can i remember if they have plus! installed? could there be an icon, or some form of text indicating they use Plus!?
Right click the contact, messenger Plus! Extras > Contact Information
Is that what you mean?
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by mordero on 09-22-2005 at 07:28 PM
He wants a faster way to do it, like an icon on the contact window or in the chat window or some such thing
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Millenium_edition on 09-22-2005 at 07:41 PM
which has been suggested numerous times and a valid solution still hasn't been found yet
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-24-2005 at 04:42 PM
Manually checking each and every user, querying if they have plus installed, is really very cumbersome. Realistically, taking into consideration the way the system works now, if you want to know if someone is using Plus!, you may as well just ask them! So yes, a better solution is needed. However there are difficulties to be overcome; technical and privacy.
The technical aren't the main concern, the privacy is. Personally I sit amongst those who think by installing Plus! you should really be allowing people who satisfy the following:
a) Have Messenger Installed
b) Have plus installed
c) Are accepted on your contact list
d) Are not blocked
...to see you have Plus installed (here comes the critical bit) via a SILENT HANDSHAKE. It should be presumed that having Plus! installed (amongst all the other conditions listed above) would allow this. The same underlying core principle is applied to Messenger itself.
This would be beneficial to seeing what features could be activated successfully (I.E. What's the point of sending people formatted text if all they can see is a heap of junk characters?).
However this is only one side of the story, and those who think that a silent handshake model shouldn't be allowed bring up their own set of valid points, much of which I also agree with.
This is a hard issue to place. A better solution is needed, but (ultimately) compromises will need to be made.
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by haydos on 09-24-2005 at 05:46 PM
I personally would like to see the secret message/handshake implemented also but I can see the problems it has the capacity to cause.
As for a symbol in the contact list, Plus! has a little function called Custom names 
I know it will be tedious to go through the entire contact list to add a symbol/letter/whatever to each contact but it would only have to be done once and it makes for an easy check.
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by mltz2plz on 09-25-2005 at 03:01 AM
^^ thats a smart one..
like add 2 red ?? infront of the name of the contact then add (!N) so it will show the question marks indicating they have msgplus.. and the (!N) will show theyr nickname..
RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-25-2005 at 07:43 AM
quote:I already use Custom names for 90% of my contacts. As far as I can tell, this does not help with checking. I'm open to correction though
Originally posted by haydn
I personally would like to see the secret message/handshake implemented also but I can see the problems it has the capacity to cause.
As for a symbol in the contact list, Plus! has a little function called Custom names
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by haydos on 09-25-2005 at 10:04 AM
I understand that the custom names cant help you with the checking for Plus! but it can be used for remembering if Plus! is installed after you have checked once. If you see the first post of the thread this was asked for.
eg
P - John <<<these people have Plus! so you add a P (or somethign else)
P - Mark <<<<
Bill <<< No Plus!
Of course you Dont have to put a P or anything... even a coloured . or * would be noticible
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Emjaybee on 09-26-2005 at 03:20 AM
But it would have to check everytime you saw them online. Not everyone only uses one PC. People also travel etc.
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by evil_panda on 09-26-2005 at 07:41 AM
oooo sounds like a fab idea to me but i have no idea how to do it but you brainy lot should be able to do it
RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-26-2005 at 09:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by haydn
I understand that the custom names cant help you with the checking for Plus! but it can be used for remembering if Plus! is installed after you have checked once. If you see the first post of the thread this was asked for.
eg
P - John <<<these people have Plus! so you add a P (or somethign else)
P - Mark <<<<
Bill <<< No Plus!
Of course you Dont have to put a P or anything... even a coloured . or * would be noticible
quote:
Originally posted by Emjaybee
But it would have to check everytime you saw them online. Not everyone only uses one PC. People also travel etc.
Exactly. This solution isn't really practical.
RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by CookieRevised on 09-26-2005 at 11:19 AM
quote:It shouldn't be presumed at all!!!
Originally posted by Unknown...
The technical aren't the main concern, the privacy is. Personally I sit amongst those who think by installing Plus! you should really be allowing people who satisfy the following:
a) Have Messenger Installed
b) Have plus installed
c) Are accepted on your contact list
d) Are not blocked
...to see you have Plus installed (here comes the critical bit) via a SILENT HANDSHAKE. It should be presumed that having Plus! installed (amongst all the other conditions listed above) would allow this. The same underlying core principle is applied to Messenger itself.
First of all, Plus doesn't do anything hidden. And that is a very good thing. Remember that certain people are still calling Plus! spyware, don't give them any reason to continue or start up on that again...
Second, "The same underlying core principle is applied to Messenger itself". Messenger Plus! never used the protocol or hacked in to it. There is a massive difference in what can be done inside a main program or a plugin made for that program.
quote:The issue isn't hard at all IMO... Simply ask the contact or use the /ping command...
Originally posted by Unknown...
This is a hard issue to place. A better solution is needed, but (ultimately) compromises will need to be made.
-----
In all fairness, all this time we rant about it I eventually could have checked 500 contacts by hand.
This issue is almost the same as requesting for a massive automatic custom name setting or something, in the context of automating things. Simply don't be lazy and ask the user or use ping...
As for "yeah, but they could be using a different computer with no plus! installed". So?? To be honest, what is so critically massivly important that you really really need to know if they are using Plus! at the moment or not, and this for all your contacts all the time???
TBH, there is no reason what-so-ever that you _must_ know from second to second what your contact is using (there is nothing in Plus! that really needs your contact to have Plus also). The only reason is your own curiosity...
-----
If you find the /ping command a bit cryptic towards the contact that may not have Plus! or don't know what that ping-pong means, then simply make a quicktext with the command in it and an explaination and use that instead of /ping...
-----
In my book, a secret underlying handshaking is a very massive big no-no as long as there are still people dishing Plus! for being spyware or even calling it dodgy software which can mess up the messenger connection. Stuff like secret handshaking stuff are exactly the things which cause people to say such stuff, weither it is true or not...
RE: RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-26-2005 at 02:31 PM
quote:Like I said Cookie, there are two sides to the story. I’m stating how I believe the system should work. I know you are a firm believer of the other side.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
< all that Cookie said - it's above me, read it people!
I believe it should be presumed. Why? Because it is logical. I presume that when I use Messenger it will tell me who is online, their status, contact name, msn space, etc. By the same token I presume people can see these same things of me, if we are to get into a conversation. Plus! as an extension to messenger should also behave in the same spirit.
Plus doesn’t do anything hidden, which is a good thing. There are limits to everything though. If the above criteria I mentioned are met, I don’t see it as an invasion of privacy. Those who know me know I take privacy and user control very seriously. However everything within reason needs to be considered.
I understand the distinction between plugin and program. I was speaking broadly.
Ok, you’re right. I’ll ask each and everyone of my contacts, every time they sign in mind you, if they are using Plus!. I’m sure that won’t get old fast. Or I’ll manually click the ‘ping’ button over and over again. Again, that won’t get old either. Sigh.
It’s not a matter of being lazy. It’s a matter of being practical.
So overall you’re saying there is no reason what-so-ever to know if my contact is using Plus!? Using that logic why even have the ‘ping’ command as part of Plus! features? As long as there is a reason, it should be presented in a more user-friendly and practical manner. There are times that it is handy to know if someone is using Plus!. It’s more than just curiosity, and more frequently needed than invoking a clumsy ‘ping’ command over and over.
Yes Plus! has taken some flak in recent times. It all comes down to people and education. I don’t think we should dismiss something just because of this. Have I stopped using Microsoft AntiSpyware? No. Do I agree with Microsoft AntiSpyware false-positive reading of Plus!? No. Instead I use the software and educate people on how to use it properly. This is a perfect example of people not understanding what their computers are telling them. Regardless of fault, to think that MSAS (or any program for that manner) is going to magically work without interpretation is silly. To not use it is even sillier – you’re not teaching people anything, and in effect helping to fuel the fire.
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by CookieRevised on 09-27-2005 at 05:38 AM
I dare you to find one contact who is constantly installing Plus! and removing it again... There is no need to _constantly_ check if your contact has Plus! or not...
Yes, it is curiosity and nothing more IMO. There is until now not a single practical use for an automated ping (if it was even possible).
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by elektrixxx on 09-28-2005 at 01:52 AM
It should add the Plus! logo on your contacts names somehow if they are found to have Plus! installed.
RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-28-2005 at 09:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I dare you to find one contact who is constantly installing Plus! and removing it again... There is no need to _constantly_ check if your contact has Plus! or not...
Yes, it is curiosity and nothing more IMO. There is until now not a single practical use for an automated ping (if it was even possible).
Cookie it's not about _constantly_ installing and uninstalling Plus! It's to indicate if the computer they are on has Plus! functionality. Many people use more than one PC where they do/can not have Plus!. At work, using a web-based MSN, using an Apple computer, etc.
I've already discussed RE. "Curiosity".
RE: better way for checking for Plus! by CookieRevised on 09-28-2005 at 10:38 AM
Then we are back to square one...
If it isn't about constantly uninstalling/installing Plus! or constantly needing to know if they have Plus! or not, and since there is no critical thing that needs to check if Plus! is enabled on the other side, then what is the use of constant automatic checking meganism each time the contact logs on (other then curiosity)....
Even for those few people who use different computers (one with Plus!, one without; and don't say all your 100 contacts switch computers all the time), you could easly use the /ping command and even then it isn't needed to constantly check upon it, because there is no need (again, other then satisfying your own curiosity)....
----
Anyways, what I simply are trying to say is that such a feature is not something which is needed or would be so much more practical than otherwise. It simply is something from the category of "whistles and bells". And since this unusefull "whistle" or "bell" even requires a hidden automated process which even also need to hack into the messenger protocol, I'm not sure it will be implemented or considered.
RE: RE: better way for checking for Plus! by Unknown... on 09-28-2005 at 07:26 PM
It has its uses. To know if you can successfully send people sounds, formatted text, etc. It's more than just curiosity!
quote:Hehehe, few?!
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Even for those few people who use different computers...
Define few?! You really need to see my contacts activity! Add to that I work with people across platform (on an Apple at work, but at home on a PC). There is a need out there.It is a 'bells and whistles' feature, but one that would provide an enhancement to what is currently presented. And, after all, isn't Plus! a program that puts 'bells and whistles' onto MSN/Windows Messenger?!
I get the feeling we could go on forever Cookie. Let's just agree to opposite sides of the spectrum and gracefully let this thread fade away!
