would it be possible that TB could attach me the source code of the Reloaded plugin ? the one with the messagebox ???

- i would like to export the function so that it can be used not only from IM windows but from other plugins as well
- and also add a shortcut key

PS with full credits to him ofcourse

thanks in advance

TB does'nt visit here much plus the best way to contact him is via e-mail and you have it a belive as your installer script is by him

quote:

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Originally posted by Absorbation
TB does'nt visit here much plus the best way to contact him is via e-mail and you have it a belive as your installer script is by him

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Well then you already have the reloader source code, its in the insatller.  Its only a couple of lines, it uses SendMessage to send the reload message to Messenger Plus!

Yes i know i have it in the installer, but i want t accoplish the messagebox effect as plus! will reload the plugins after 5 seconds
TB's plugin will not reload the plugins until the messagebox is closed

I informed TB to have a look at this post

quote:

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Originally posted by Sypher
I informed TB to have a look at this post

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No

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
No

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o come on TB be nice

I could do it for you.

quote:

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Originally posted by ipab
o come on TB be nice

I could do it for you. This is just NSIS right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by TazDevil
Yes i know i have it in the installer, but i want t accoplish the messagebox effect as plus! will reload the plugins after 5 seconds
TB's plugin will not reload the plugins until the messagebox is closed

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Simply don't reload the plugins until the user has clicked ok on the messagebox, it's that simple...

instead of:
   ReloadPlugins
   MsgBox "click here"
do:
   MsgBox "click here"
   ReloadPlugins

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quote:

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Originally posted by TazDevil
I have examined TB's plugin and fould an embeded plugin inside which is used to produce the nice message i wanted all along

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quote:

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Originally posted by raceprouk
Can you get to it using PE Explorer or similar?

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If you want to do it that way, go along, just don't expect me to do anything for you ever again in the future.

Really i wouldnt like to fuel the situation, nor pick a fight, but,

Well if you look at the fist post i think i asked it really nicely, and your nicest reply was

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
No

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some notes...

quote:

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Originally posted by TazDevil
Really i wouldnt like to fuel the situation, nor pick a fight, but,

Well if you look at the fist post i think i asked it really nicely, and your nicest reply was

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
No

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and i wouldnt think that, that was your greatest accomplishment, as i said i could do it my self BUT foolish me i wanted to enhance your plugin, and being that your plugin is majorly used by developers, i thought it was a mischief to work OnLY when you are online AND have an online contact to send the message, that is very restrictive, so i dfecided to write a workaround to remove this restriction, and if you feel so strongly about it, then i will write the whole file from scratch...

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quote:

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Originally posted by TazDevil
since i didnt have any code i couldnt steal it, i reverse engineered it.

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um, TB does it all the time, wtbw did it (if i recall correctly he taught TB to do it) (im refering to reverse-engineering), therefore it should be fair game for TazDevil.

Reverse engineering - isn't that common practice? wtbw reverse-engineered the MSN hashing algorithm, which I'm sure several developers use. I do. And, to an extent, Patchou and many plugin developers have reverse engineered Messenger so they can get under the hood and tinker.

It's just that people don't usually admit to reverse engineering, because it can be frowned upon. If I want to know how someone did something, I'll usually start by asking for pointers in the right direction. I don't necessarily want full code (doesn't help people to have full code), but snippets are helpful.

TB, I do agree with you in principle. That's why I have put in the readme for Phoenix 2 that people are able to look at the resources in it, but not change them. Then again, all the resources are strings, piccies and dialogs.

Ah yes, let's totally disregard with what the developer says, and then let's all be suprised when he gets pissed off...
What a wonderful world we live in indeed...
</sarcasm>

@ipab, raceprouk

There is still a (social) difference between reverse engineering MSN Messenger to make addons, plugins and what not, and reverse engeneer a plugin made by your fellow programmers to rip it off...

Yes, technically it is the same, but there is still something like not touching code from your friends and respect their whishes.

quote:

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Originally posted by raceprouk
It's just that people don't usually admit to reverse engineering, because it can be frowned upon. If I want to know how someone did something, I'll usually start by asking for pointers in the right direction. I don't necessarily want full code (doesn't help people to have full code), but snippets are helpful.

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quote:

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since i didnt have any code i couldnt steal it, i reverse engineered it.

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ARGH!!!!!!
Couldn't hold this post back...
TB! Stop that baby shit!
You are really acting like a #¤W%#¤% kid on 5 years.. You are really being to ridiculous... Sorry people, but you gotta admit he is.. Again.. As he has done before in the past... All you sarcasm and "oh no" BS...
Why wouldn't you want to help TazDevil?... Is it beacuse he wants to develope an improved version of one your plugins????... Is it beacuse you feel it would be competition?... No.. I see... You did spend much time on getting the Reloader to work as it does.. Then why didn't you spend 5 more minutes to do the improvement as TazDevil wants to do?... Or if you didn't think about it then, then do it now?... It would help the other developers a hell of lot.. It is nice to have a reloader, but it's really a pain in the ass to have to have an open conversation to reload plugins and to type in a command to reload.. this means I will have to be online on the account I uses.. But what if I want to stay offline.. If I test something, and don't want to be online.. What then?? Use my secondary account.. Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to still watch my standard account contacts, e.g. if my "under development plugin" doesn't support polygamy or craches....
The greatest would be a Reloader plugin in which you can define 2 hotkeys, one to unload plugins, and then it will keep unloaded until you press hotkey 2... Or something similar... You could have done this ages ago... And now someone wants to do it for you.. Of course giving you credits for it... But all you can say is "No"... You could have giving a better answer.. A answer he could relate to... Maybe you could have giving him a hint on what to do/where to look... Something!!! Anything but a "No" answer!!!!.. We are a god damn community, people are supposed to stick together and help eachother... We are trying to create great plugins, not #¤%#% competion... If you don't want to help and be part of the community.. Why are you here then????... We have to help eachother...
It's ok if you don't want to give out the entire source, but you could at least have spent 1 minute on giving him some hints as to what to do, of if you didn't want to do that, then you could be willing to create this reloader yourself... You might do that, I don't know.. But then you at least could have stated in your post that you would do that, so he shouldn't worry...
I know it's wrong to reverse engineere other peoples plugins... But what would you expect with an answer like that????....
You think you own the reloader plugin part because you made this smart feature to hold it until a button was clicked... NO!!!! Nobody owns any thing!!!!.... There is no competition, no nothing!!!! Just plain and simple programming.. Community.. Sharing... Making the best out of messenger.. That is what this is about... But why don't you want to help us the other developers to make greater and greater plugins?....

TazDevil:
Hope you get this running.. ... Or at least that TB will get himself together and do this thing instead, if he won't let you do it...
This will be a big help for me... ... It will at least making the plugin programming, testing and reloading a litle easier.. ...

Ah yes, Me having spent hours on getting this to work really doesn't mean a lot to you, doesn't it?
If you're going to use my work, then why don't you pay for it?
I decided to distribute this for free, but this doesn't mean I give permission to every half-arsed developer to rip out the main code and use it in his plugin.
I'm not stopping taz from making his own reloader plugin, I don't care about that. My reloader isn't making me any money at all, and to be honest I'd already forgotten about it.
But if he wants to do his own, he should do his own research, just like I did. I am in no way obligated to share my knowledge with anyone, and if I ever do share information like this, I will do so out of my free damn will.

The main problem with your 25-lines of bullshit is that you've forgotten one major thing: It's freeware, I decided to share it with the world myself, and this does not in any way force me to make it just the way you'd want it. It was provided as-is, and if you're not satisfied make your own. And by "Your own" I mean by doing your own testing, investigating, retrying, and so on.

EDIT:

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
ARGH!!!!!!
Couldn't hold this post back...
TB! Stop that baby shit!
You are really acting like a #¤W%#¤% kid on 5 years.. You are really being to ridiculous... Sorry people, but you gotta admit he is.. Again.. As he has done before in the past... All you sarcasm and "oh no" BS...

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quote:

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Why wouldn't you want to help TazDevil?... Is it beacuse he wants to develope an improved version of one your plugins????... Is it beacuse you feel it would be competition?... No.. I see... You did spend much time on getting the Reloader to work as it does.. Then why didn't you spend 5 more minutes to do the improvement as TazDevil wants to do?... Or if you didn't think about it then, then do it now?... It would help the other developers a hell of lot.. It is nice to have a reloader, but it's really a pain in the ass to have to have an open conversation to reload plugins and to type in a command to reload.. this means I will have to be online on the account I uses.. But what if I want to stay offline.. If I test something, and don't want to be online.. What then?? Use my secondary account.. Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to still watch my standard account contacts, e.g. if my "under development plugin" doesn't support polygamy or craches....
The greatest would be a Reloader plugin in which you can define 2 hotkeys, one to unload plugins, and then it will keep unloaded until you press hotkey 2... Or something similar... You could have done this ages ago... And now someone wants to do it for you.. Of course giving you credits for it... But all you can say is "No"...

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quote:

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You could have giving a better answer.. A answer he could relate to... Maybe you could have giving him a hint on what to do/where to look... Something!!! Anything but a "No" answer!!!!.. We are a god damn community, people are supposed to stick together and help eachother... We are trying to create great plugins, not #¤%#% competion... If you don't want to help and be part of the community.. Why are you here then????... We have to help eachother...

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quote:

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It's ok if you don't want to give out the entire source, but you could at least have spent 1 minute on giving him some hints as to what to do, of if you didn't want to do that, then you could be willing to create this reloader yourself... You might do that, I don't know.. But then you at least could have stated in your post that you would do that, so he shouldn't worry...
I know it's wrong to reverse engineere other peoples plugins... But what would you expect with an answer like that????....

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quote:

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You think you own the reloader plugin part because you made this smart feature to hold it until a button was clicked... NO!!!! Nobody owns any thing!!!!.... There is no competition, no nothing!!!! Just plain and simple programming.. Community.. Sharing... Making the best out of messenger.. That is what this is about... But why don't you want to help us the other developers to make greater and greater plugins?....

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well TB your reason for saying NO makes total sense now, everyone has a right to say no.

the one word answer seemed a little rude thats all and I apologise if I insulted you, I was just sticking up for Taz.

no one is saying that you are unwilling to help or anything like that since we have seen firsthand how much  you have improved over time in giving people assistance. I agree that you used to be a bit rude, but you have become a really nice and generous person, helping many people who inturn give you great respect and credit for your help. It's a give and take thing (although you give a LOT more). People get desperate when they have been doing something for a long time and getting nowhere, I think that this was the case with Taz.

Anyway i think that this post has gone on long enough, so as a final note, I apologie on behalf of cyberdude and Taz and lets stop this flame thread and move on.

Peace,
ipab.

p.s. you blocked me , it truly saddens me.

p.p.s

quote:

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Originally posted by kangie

Gotta agree with TB tbh... You say it was fine for MSN messenger to be reverse engineered, but not for TB's plugin to be.

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Taz i think it would be better if you tried to make your own from scratch

quote:

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Originally posted by ipab
on a side note, just because people at microsoft get paid for their work doesn't give people more justification to decompile it as opposed to another freeware program or plugin.

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"A thousand monkeys, typing on a thousand typewriters will eventually type the entire works of William Shakespeare."

Does that make the entire works of William Shakespeare the property of the monkeys too since they created it on their own?

Code is just characters typed out in a certain order so it hardly matters if you reverse engineer MSN or TB's plugins because a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters would eventually have written the same code anyway so claiming ownership of such things is rather pointless.

Good luck to TazDevil in enhancing the plugin I say.

quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Code is just characters typed out in a certain order so it hardly matters if you reverse engineer MSN or TB's plugins because a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters would eventually have written the same code anyway so claiming ownership of such things is rather pointless.

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Okay.. First off... I'd like to make a small apology to you TB...
But not fully...

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Ah yes, Me having spent hours on getting this to work really doesn't mean a lot to you, doesn't it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
If you're going to use my work, then why don't you pay for it?
I decided to distribute this for free, but this doesn't mean I give permission to every half-arsed developer to rip out the main code and use it in his plugin.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I'm not stopping taz from making his own reloader plugin, I don't care about that. My reloader isn't making me any money at all, and to be honest I'd already forgotten about it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
But if he wants to do his own, he should do his own research, just like I did. I am in no way obligated to share my knowledge with anyone, and if I ever do share information like this, I will do so out of my free damn will.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer

The main problem with your 25-lines of bullshit is that you've forgotten one major thing: It's freeware, I decided to share it with the world myself, and this does not in any way force me to make it just the way you'd want it. It was provided as-is, and if you're not satisfied make your own. And by "Your own" I mean by doing your own testing, investigating, retrying, and so on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Ah yes, as soon as I don't just plainly accept anything thrown at me, or decide to not help out like I usually do, people always bring that up... but tell me, what's your fucking point there? It makes no bloody sense!

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quote:

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The plugin was provided as is, I couldn't care less what you want, I was merely sharing something I created for myself. And the reason I said just "No" was that at the time I was really hung-over, couldn't be bothered to type more. And thinking back, I don't think I had to type more, I am still the developer of the plugin, and I am not obliged in any way to explain why I refuse to cooperate with something.

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quote:

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You really don't get it, do you? Normally I help out, a lot more than I should be at times, and this time when I refuse, I get crap like this thrown at me? would you call that community behaviour?!

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quote:

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I'd expect people to just accept my answer. is that too much to ask?
You ask me something, I refuse, and you keep on whining? that's five-year-old behaviour...

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quote:

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I own the code I write. And if you disagree, then don't touch it.

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Alright, Time gets the treatment first. Yes, ofcourse monkeys *could* write the works of Shakespeare. But the chances of them doing that in the average lifespan of a monkey is very close to 0.000000% percent.
There are a thousand different lovestories out there similar to Romeo and Juliet, and I that's what is meant by the saying you quoted. It happens all the time people get similar ideas.
However, This would not justify just adding one or two extra scenes to Romeo and Juliet, and then distributing it as your own...
I have no problem at all with Taz making another Reloader plugin, it'd be a great learning opportunity for him, as it has been for me. What I will not accept is him just plainly stealing my code from the resources and building something else around that. Someone who would do that is not worthy to be called a developer... That's what the terms "Asshole", "Scriptkiddie" and "N00b" are meant for.

Right, (Cyberdude), quit the crap. Stop repeating yourself to make your post look big. It'll only have people read it halfway before deciding it's just bullshit and repetition of what you already said.
I might've been a "dickhead" in the past, but this was in no way related to things like this. It was a fight between KoalaBlue and me that turned out pretty bad. It had nothing to do with sharing things with the community as I've even shared a lot of code and plugins before that.
Let me just repeat this one more time, hoping it will finally reach your thick brain. I am in no way obliged to share my code, my plugins, or my knowledge. The plugin was written for my own testing, and I decided to share it with others. I did and do not care about what you want, because I am not your personal fucking little coding slave. If you don't like what I offer, then do not take it. I will add new features when I feel like it, not on demand. I do all of this in my own spare time, and if you want me to do something specific, I suggest you contact me about the pricing.
Even if this is a community, it does not mean I am forced to give other people hints. Hell, I did it without hints too, didn't I?

Now seriously, if you decide to just steal, rip, and fuck with things that people shared,
How can you expect people to continue sharing?

ok at first i though TB was being a bit mean, because Taz did ask quite nicely. but now that TB has explained his side i can definately see his point. TB learnt how to code that plugin, did all the research etc. BY HIMSELF which means that someone else can do the same thing as well. the info is obviously available out there somewhere!

Cookie: I agree in theory but there is a glaring omission everyone standing up for TB's code is making - the fact that he has reverse engineered MSN. Did he ask MSN's coders for tips first? You can say "oh, but MSN is a team of coders with corporate money blah blah" but each individual coder is not an arsehole or so; they're just doing their jobs! Plus, MSN is free. It's not like they're charging for it. So, you know, MSN is distributed AS IS - don't like that then go code your whole own IM client and network. The sword cuts both ways, eh. I imagine that if this thread had been about TazDevil needing tips reverse engineering MSN then half a dozen developers would've jumped at helping him instead of TB's rather rude, flat-out "No."

"Now seriously, if you decide to just steal, rip, and fuck with things that people shared,
How can you expect people to continue sharing?"

Because TazDevil might have some serious enhancements to make? Because open source software is the future of developing? How many open source apps do you use TB? How many apps have you reverse engineered to get their code and stolen it? Yeah, you're hardly a moral angel AND TazDevil did ask nicely in the first place. I am sure that TazDevil woud have given full due to TB in his improved plugin, so he's hardly stealing it and claiming it as his own. Even with a hangover TB should've put a reason rather than just a one word epithet. Fuck that, arrogance of that level is just so unjustified.
By being given a fish a day people will themselves observe and learn to be sustainable in time.

TB: I don't need a lesson on history and etymology from you thanks, I know full well the intended meaning of the phrase; but as a hypothetical it is a fitting analogy.

quote:

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Because TazDevil might have some serious enhancements to make? Because open source software is the future of developing? How many open source apps do you use TB? How many apps have you reverse engineered to get their code and stolen it? Yeah, you're hardly a moral angel AND TazDevil did ask nicely in the first place. I am sure that TazDevil woud have given full due to TB in his improved plugin, so he's hardly stealing it and claiming it as his own. Even with a hangover TB should've put a reason rather than just a one word epithet. Fuck that, arrogance of that level is just so unjustified.

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ok, honestly guys this is becoming very childish. i think we should just drop this completely. it's just becoming a name -calling excercise and people are repeating themselves.

TB has given his answer and he's as stubborn as they come as i'm sure you've noticed from this thread so i highly doubt he's going to change his mind!!

drop it

quote:

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Originally posted by lordy16
... it's just becoming a name -calling excercise ...

... he's as stubborn as they come ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Let's play spot the contradiction...

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Alright, I don't care what the hell you think.
I wouldn't mind at all if some of you dropped from a fairly high building, but let's put it like this way:
I will not tolerate this kind of behaviour, simply stealing my code, nor will I tolerate people asking me something and then totally disregarding my answer.
I've totally had it. You should expect no more help, guiding, hints, sources, or freeware plugins from me.

Well you've done it now guys...

EDIT: May I ask what if someone came in and ask for the source code of Messenger Plus! ? Everyone would say no of course, it just wouldn't happen. Then what would you say if that same guy said he would reverse-engineer it and make his own Messenger Addon from the code of Plus!. What would you do then?

Just because it's a small plugin doesn't mean it deserves the respect of all the hours, research and hard work the author has put into it.

You've pushed him so far now that he won't help you. Are you happy?

Some people have bad days. And you've got to respect that especially over the internet.

To be honest, ripping code from another programmer is lame. And it's even worse when they said no.

There is no obligation from any of the developers to share their code or help others out. But if people abuse this, then don't come crying that someone gets mad...

Ok, i really think this thread should be closed =/ .

The concluding facts are that reverse engineering or stealing code from a developer/programmer is immoral and illegal. If you want to use another developer's code you should ask them explaining what you want to do with it (as Cookie said previously). If the programmer says "No" then simply thats it - its their choice, they put in all the effort to make it. It is their interlectual property covered by copyright laws.

Heard of the saying "Don't judge a book by its cover"? - TB was hung-over at the time, he has explained now that is the case and in a sense has apologised for his original answer. I'm sure somedays i act very strange, but that doesn't mean i'm a bad person or anyone else that goes through these different moods.

Now, to be honest TazDevil hasn't even really replied after the point TB made it clear that he would not share his code (which is fair enough). TazDevil did not "heat" up the argument or anything like this so lets please not vent this anger towards him.

Theres obviously a difference of opinon here and i'm trying to stay as neutral as i can. I'm sure everyone knows about all that crap if "if everyone was the same..." etc. The point is everyone is going to have different opinons on this matter.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I didn't ask about TazDevils reasons to share, It's more about if you just plainly rip my code, how can you expect me to share anything else in the future?
furthermore, Why should I have puut a reason? He asked a question, I answered, There are no unwritten laws that force me to explain every answer I give.
Just a sidenote, I've always considered people calling you a "wanker" or "tosser" or any other insult to have misunderstood you or something, but this really made me change my mind about this. I can no longer say I disagree with them...

Alright, I don't care what the hell you think.
I wouldn't mind at all if some of you dropped from a fairly high building, but let's put it like this way:
I will not tolerate this kind of behaviour, simply stealing my code, nor will I tolerate people asking me something and then totally disregarding my answer.
I've totally had it. You should expect no more help, guiding, hints, sources, or freeware plugins from me.

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