Chat Encryption - Printable Version
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Chat Encryption by s7a5 on 10-14-2005 at 02:26 AM
I'd like to know if there is a reliable plug that can encrypt chat contents atm?
thanks
RE: Chat Encryption by prashker on 10-14-2005 at 04:04 AM
is this what you want?
http://www.msgplus.net/help_tutorials.php?tut=aut...logging-encryption
RE: Chat Encryption by s7a5 on 10-14-2005 at 05:06 AM
no, i was talking about smth that encrypts messages while they are being sent through msn servers. As you might be aware that all chats are actually loged by msn.
RE: Chat Encryption by Stigmata on 10-14-2005 at 06:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by s7a5
no, i was talking about smth that encrypts messages while they are being sent through msn servers. As you might be aware that all chats are actually loged by msn.
No, we are not. Could you elaborate and show source of this information?
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 06:36 AM
Here is another post about it and it has a link to another post http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=43713&pid=450152. I think it should be added though. Most other messengers has a addon that lets you do it. Messenger discovery use to have it but does not now. Here is other programs that will do it IMsecure, Encrypted Messenger, SimpLite.
Of course everything is logged. Why do you think on 911 the fbi went to aol msn etc... Remember when comcast got sued cause they were tracking their customers. The question is why would msn pick out one certain person out of the millions of people on msn messenger to snoop on. That will not happen unless your doing something really bad. What you should be worried about if you are gonna worry is what them encryption programs sites say
from SimpLite
" Did you know your messages are sent over the Internet in cleartext form?"
from Encrypted Messenger
"Why should I encrypt my instant messagaes?
Because they are sent from you to the other chatter in plain text. This means anyone on the internet between you and them can (if they so desire) read your instant message conversation.".
If you look in security forums or messenger forums when they talk about messenger encryption they all will tell you it is very easy to look at what someone is saying on any messenger not just msn. Like I said most messenger aim, yahoo, icq has a plugin or program meant just for that program for encryption so you do not have to use the 3 programs I listed. Msn is the only messenger I have fount that does not have this.
Here is something I fount using a google search http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=97906. Do a google search and a google group search to for microsoft logs msn messenger conversations and see what comes up. Doo not know if it is true but look at what a0011010011 said on http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=97906. I suppose you could always email them or if you their number call and ask.
RE: RE: Chat Encryption by CookieRevised on 10-14-2005 at 10:18 AM
quote:That's complete BS, chats are not logged!
Originally posted by s7a5
As you might be aware that all chats are actually loged by msn.
1) If they would do that it would be a MAJOR privacy invasion and is absolutely illegal todo without reasons.
2) If they would do that without reasons they will get sued like nobody has ever been sued before.
3) Where on earth will they find enough space to store every possible chat you think?
quote:duuuh... Almost everything you send over the net and other services is in some cleartext form.
Originally posted by dreaded
from SimpLite
" Did you know your messages are sent over the Internet in cleartext form?"
Did you know your emails are sent unecrypted?
Did you know your requests to download a webpage is sent unencrypted?
Did you know you text messages on your phone are sent unencrypted?
Did you know your phone conversations are send unencrypted?
etc...
Such one-liners do nothing more then making people unnnessecairly paranoid.
quote:Yes in a way this is right, but this is a so vague description of what happens that this seriously can't be taken as how it actually is. Of course people read this literally without the proper knowledge and so an urban is created.
Originally posted by dreaded
from Encrypted Messenger
"Why should I encrypt my instant messagaes?
Because they are sent from you to the other chatter in plain text. This means anyone on the internet between you and them can (if they so desire) read your instant message conversation.".
You can't simply snif and tap of a connection between person A and person B. That's totally impossible, unless you are on the same network. Those who _could_ do it are ISP's and those who have access to these highly restrictive servers.
And don't think some lonely geek working at an ISP fills his days with reading and logging the billions of lines passing thru the servers each hour.
Logging traffic like this is absolutely illegal, unless the feds have got a very good reasons to do so. This is exactly the same as the phone-tap issue.
Also, why on earth do they want to log your conversations? Of the 6 billion people on earth and of all the people communicating with each other in a certain way, there is only a extremely small fraction which actually use these communication lines to do malicious stuff.
Do you do any malicious stuff? Why on earth would you want your chats encrypted?
"Oh noes!!!111!!! I don't want the feds to know about my chat between me and my girlfriend.... "
"I don't want them to know I've cheated on my school test"
------
The only good reason you want the chats to be encrypted is if you are on a local network. But even then, people can't simply tap on lines just like that. There is always some security. Eg: cybercafe's use such local networks, but be assure that the guy on the computer next to you isn't able to tap on your line though. Even then, there are far more easier ways he he wants to spy on you. Ways which any encryption program can't do nothing about it...
quote:Yeah, they all will tell you... but nobody is able to show me any concrete example of how to do it... In most cases, they all tell you that because it is mostly popular to tell you that and making people paranoid.
Originally posted by dreaded
If you look in security forums or messenger forums when they talk about messenger encryption they all will tell you it is very easy to look at what someone is saying on any messenger not just msn.
Those who actually are able to do such stuff are very rare and will actually also tell you that it is only possible in local networks and that most local networks are heavly secured and that you need serious hacking knowledge to first brake in into lines and etc...
quote:The programs you listed are compatible MSN Messenger (at least i know IMSecure is).
Originally posted by dreaded
Like I said most messenger aim, yahoo, icq has a plugin or program meant just for that program for encryption so you do not have to use the 3 programs I listed. Msn is the only messenger I have fount that does not have this.
------
Anyways, if you want encryption, fine... but don't bring in "msn logs chats" and "feds know what I'm doing" as that is totally out of context, untrue and are simply urban myths...
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 11:47 AM
They do. Email them and ask yourself.
RE: Chat Encryption by s7a5 on 10-14-2005 at 02:37 PM
personally i'm sure that they log ip adresses, times in and times out, and it doesn't exclude the possibility that they log conversations as well. They use this information against crime and terrorism, however my intentions are different, I just don't like the idea that somewhere someone is storing my chat logs.
RE: Chat Encryption by linx05 on 10-14-2005 at 02:52 PM
quote:What about the person talking to you? He/she may store your logs. Personally I don't think you should worry about this. You're too paranoid.
Originally posted by s7a5
I just don't like the idea that somewhere someone is storing my chat logs.
I still remember a guy got up me because I was logging our convo. He said it was illegal and was against the MSNM Terms of Use. He was hilarious. Still makes me laugh when I read over the log. He reminds me of you.
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 03:17 PM
They do log ip addresses, times in and out. Every site etc.. has some sort of logging. Even this forum logs ip addresses. Even your isp does it. How do you think riaa, mpaa etc.. bust you. And with the patriot act they dont have to give reasons for anything. They get your ip and call your isp and ask what times was ip xxxx was on and who did the ip belong. Like I said comcast got sued for tacking their customers. I am sure after awhile they trash the data. I never said if they did or didnt log your conversations. CookieRevised was so eager to prove me wrong that CookieRevised didnt read what I said and what them sites said. Usually when someone is so fast to prove someone wrong either they dont know or they hiding something. You could email them or use that link that was given here http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=97906 and call them. http://privacy1.msn.com/fullnotice.armx is the link. When it come to terrorism and something criminal you can beat they can and probably would record everything you say on messenger and even in chatrooms. And I dont like the idea of msn or anyone else besides me and the people I talk knowing what I said to someone else. Only thing you can do is change messenger that has encryption built in like aim, or get program like I mentioned. And for your email use pgp or gpg.
RE: Chat Encryption by wj on 10-14-2005 at 03:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The only good reason you want the chats to be encrypted is if you are on a local network. But even then, people can't simply tap on lines just like that. There is always some security. Eg: cybercafe's use such local networks, but be assure that the guy on the computer next to you isn't able to tap on your line though. Even then, there are far more easier ways he he wants to spy on you. Ways which any encryption program can't do nothing about it...
Actually, You just have to be on the same network, You just set your system into promiscious mode and it will start to recieve all of the packets it can handle coming off the network with few exceptions (mostly if you have a really well setup network which most people/organizations dont). Arstechnica published a guide on howto sniff AOL messages eairler this week, Nothing fancy needed, no special hardware, Just a system, libpcap, and ruby on rails.
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 03:32 PM
Actually there was something about this posted on another forum over a year ago linx05 http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/t21824-log-your...ts-go-to-jail.html
Do not know all the details so you will have to read it and see for yourself.
RE: RE: Chat Encryption by linx05 on 10-14-2005 at 03:53 PM
quote:Those links don't say anything. The msdn link is talking about what you're talking about in this thread without any backing up with sources. The other one says nothing about logging chats.
Originally posted by dreaded
They do log ip addresses, times in and out. Every site etc.. has some sort of logging. Even this forum logs ip addresses. Even your isp does it. How do you think riaa, mpaa etc.. bust you. And with the patriot act they dont have to give reasons for anything. They get your ip and call your isp and ask what times was ip xxxx was on and who did the ip belong. Like I said comcast got sued for tacking their customers. I am sure after awhile they trash the data. I never said if they did or didnt log your conversations. CookieRevised was so eager to prove me wrong that CookieRevised didnt read what I said and what them sites said. Usually when someone is so fast to prove someone wrong either they dont know or they hiding something. You could email them or use that link that was given here http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=97906 and call them. http://privacy1.msn.com/fullnotice.armx is the link. When it come to terrorism and something criminal you can beat they can and probably would record everything you say on messenger and even in chatrooms. And I dont like the idea of msn or anyone else besides me and the people I talk knowing what I said to someone else. Only thing you can do is change messenger that has encryption built in like aim, or get program like I mentioned. And for your email use pgp or gpg.
And this one http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/t21824-log-your...ts-go-to-jail.html, well I'm not in New Hampshire am I?
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 04:06 PM
You email or call them and ask them since you think its not true. I dont know where you live. As far as I know you could live in in another country besides the usa. And if you do live in the usa from what I have read of that article it depends on your state. It might be a crime to do that in your state. They just said one state. Different states have different laws.
RE: Chat Encryption by CookieRevised on 10-14-2005 at 06:55 PM
quote:Dreaded, I did read your posts and I did read this thread and the links. And I'm certainly not "eager to proove you wrong". And I certainly have nothing to hide. In fact, I'm not the one who is worried that his convo to his friends or what not is logged. Why on earth should I be afraid? In fact, for all I care, they can log whatever they want from me...
Originally posted by dreaded
CookieRevised was so eager to prove me wrong that CookieRevised didnt read what I said and what them sites said. Usually when someone is so fast to prove someone wrong either they dont know or they hiding something.
quote:And if you took the time to read my post, you should have seen that I didn't say that you said chats where logged. I replied to something you quoted...
Originally posted by dreaded
I never said if they did or didnt log your conversations.
quote:Again, if you took the time in actually reading and understanding what I said before, you would have seen that this is exactly what I also have said and exactly my point.... Only when they have a good reason to log something, they will. They will not do it out of the blue at all...
Originally posted by dreaded
When it come to terrorism and something criminal you can beat they can and probably would record everything you say on messenger and even in chatrooms.
quote:And what has that got to do with logging conversations? Nothing... The issue is logging convo's, not logging IP's... There's a massive difference between those two things.
Originally posted by dreaded
They do log ip addresses, times in and out. Every site etc.. has some sort of logging. Even this forum logs ip addresses. Even your isp does it. How do you think riaa, mpaa etc.. bust you. And with the patriot act they dont have to give reasons for anything. They get your ip and call your isp and ask what times was ip xxxx was on and who did the ip belong.
And to be clear, no I'm not talking about logging IP's and the likes in all my replies, I'm talking about logging conversations, the actual subject of this thread...
Oh, and as linx05 has said, those links don't proove anything at all except yet some more hear-say. And even if what a0011010011 said is true, and not some false "evidence" to get some attention and be interesting, that still is not proof at all that they log CONVERSATIONS. a0011010011 said NOTHING about logging CONVERSATIONS.
quote:1) Did you actually read that thread? This has got nothing to do with what linx05 has said.
Originally posted by dreaded
Actually there was something about this posted on another forum over a year ago linx05 http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/t21824-log-your...ts-go-to-jail.html
Do not know all the details so you will have to read it and see for yourself.
2) The important stuff (and the only thing which is true) is what Jeff, an admin on BBB, has said in that thread as a response to again all that out of context and twisted around hear-say about logging being illegal...
And that is an excellent example about what I'm ranting about in this thread and in my replies: hear-say... "X said Y, so it must be true"... "I read about blahblah"... etc...
If you state something which is true, a fact, the next guy who reads it changes that sentence slightly and claims it is true. Then the next guy again leaves some words out. The next guy interprets this and say it in his own words. Etc... Next thing you know you have transformed the fact into a short catch-phrase like urban myth. And that is what is happening here (and with stuff like "msn logs chats") again and again. Instead of the true facts that Jef stated ("What this really means is that those logs may not be admissible as evidence, should you ever go to trial over something else."), people simply read "logging is illegal".
---------
Anyways,
YOUR CHATS ARE NOT LOGGED PEOPLE!!!
Stop all being so paranoid. You should be more worried about those damn "block checker" crap sites and similar stuff where you need to enter your Passport and PWD, or about trojan horses then to be worried about the feds logging your conversations...
Instead of believing everything you hear on forums and sites which are only either designed to make you more paranoid, or consist of people who have no proof what-so-ever but also only say what they got from hear-say, use your brains and think for two minutes or at least learn how criminal investigation works...
Just because you read somewhere "FBI has said that terrorist group x communicated thru IM" does not mean, I repeat: NOT MEAN, that they, MSN, ISP's or whatever log all conversations of everybody. That kind of logging out of the blue is PURE ILLEGAL and is NOT ALLOWED by those same feds in the first place.
It is only DURING/AFTER they have a STRONG suspicion or EVIDENCE of a CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL that they authorize/request logging of conversations. AND ONLY THOSE CONVERSATIONS, nothing more.
This works exactly the same as phone-tapping...
So please, stop being so damn paranoid and stop believing everything you read, don't interpret everything literaly (eg: catch phrases are catch phrases), choose decent sources for your information (eg: not a bunch of also paranoids on some obscure forums), etc...
---------
Anyways, if you want encryption, fine... but don't bring in "msn logs chats" and "feds know what I'm doing" as that is totally out of context, untrue and are simply urban hear-say myths...
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 08:27 PM
I am not paranoid. I was just saying they do log ips etc.. and that they would log conversations and you just admitted they would log coversations ty lol.
RE: Chat Encryption by CookieRevised on 10-14-2005 at 09:14 PM
quote:WTF??? You don't read any posts do you? I never admitted anything, let alone that they log chats....
Originally posted by dreaded
I am not paranoid. I was just saying they do log ips etc.. and that they would log conversations and you just admitted they would log coversations ty lol.
reread PROPERLY...
No wonder you state untrue things and take things out of context. That reply just proofs it...
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-14-2005 at 09:27 PM
quote:Your words not mine. And lets face it. People want me to prove they do . Prove to me they dont. You do not work for microsoft so you cannot say for sure they dont. Now prove they dont lol.
It is only DURING/AFTER they have a STRONG suspicion or EVIDENCE of a CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL that they authorize/request logging of conversations. AND ONLY THOSE CONVERSATIONS, nothing more.
RE: Chat Encryption by s7a5 on 10-14-2005 at 09:42 PM
quote:You said it yourself cookie! I wasn't trying to prove that they do it whenever they want just because they are interested in the contents of your conversation. All I was asking is if there is a plugin that can encrypt logs while they are sent to yours buddy and then dycrypt when it's delivered. Of course I do realize that both contacts must have the same plugin installed, and it is not an issue.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
It is only DURING/AFTER they have a STRONG suspicion or EVIDENCE of a CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL that they authorize/request logging of conversations. AND ONLY THOSE CONVERSATIONS, nothing more.
RE: Chat Encryption by Sunshine on 10-14-2005 at 10:03 PM
Now now dreaded and s7a5, easy up a lil will you?
For the greater public it is not necessary to encrypt messages sent as they are NOT logged. That is what Cookie is trying to explain to you...both of you claim that all chats are logged by MSN wich clearly isn't so....those who write encryption programs will say they do ofcourse, it's promotion/advertising for them! Cookie is only explaining all this to prevent people getting paranoid over things that are untrue and to take away any doubt/fear you might have concerning this.
Ofcourse you are free to encrypt the messages you send, that's not what's beeing discussed here. But is it worth the hassle?
ONLY if you are a criminal and a request has been made and aproved by the government to log your chats, only then they will be logged. Way more important is to secure your computer, trojans can intercept your logs and everything else you do on your computer.
RE: RE: Chat Encryption by CookieRevised on 10-14-2005 at 10:31 PM
quote:What on earth don't you understand about the bold words???????? I even had put them in bold because I anticipated you would, again, pull things out of context... djeez...
Originally posted by dreaded
quote:Your words not mine. And lets face it. People want me to prove they do . Prove to me they dont. You do not work for microsoft so you cannot say for sure they dont. Now prove they dont lol.
It is only DURING/AFTER they have a STRONG suspicion or EVIDENCE of a CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL that they authorize/request logging of conversations. AND ONLY THOSE CONVERSATIONS, nothing more.
or as Sunshine put it more clearly:
quote:And that is something completely different than what has been claimed by paranoids...
ONLY if you are a criminal and a request has been made and aproved by the government to log your chats, only then they will be logged.
Plz, learn how to read and interpret stuff, as I have always said the very same things from post one; I have nothing "admitted", changed, twisted or whatever at all...
------------
quote:eeerrrmm:
Originally posted by s7a5
I wasn't trying to prove that they do it whenever they want just because they are interested in the contents of your conversation.
quote:
Originally posted by s7a5
no, i was talking about smth that encrypts messages while they are being sent through msn servers. As you might be aware that all chats are actually loged by msn.
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-15-2005 at 02:48 AM
Ok my bad I went and read your first post again, you did say they would log.
quote:
2) If they would do that without reasons they will get sued like nobody has ever been sued before
quote:
Logging traffic like this is absolutely illegal, unless the feds have got a very good reasons to do so.
What I say still goes. If you want me to prove they do then you have to prove to me that they don't. Bottom line no one that has posted as far as I know works for microsoft and has not said they have. No one has said yes I do work for ms and that he/she knows for a fact they do not. No one has said they have emailed or called ms and said and have confirmed they don't.
RE: Chat Encryption by brian on 10-15-2005 at 02:50 AM
To be honest, who cares to encrypt or what? You're not going to send like CC numbers or such..
RE: Chat Encryption by Sunshine on 10-15-2005 at 11:40 AM
quote:You are the one thinking they log, so why don't you call them yourself? You started by saying they do log, so you are the one to proove they do first, we have seen no proof sofar!
Originally posted by dreaded
What I say still goes. If you want me to prove they do then you have to prove to me that they don't. Bottom line no one that has posted as far as I know works for microsoft and has not said they have. No one has said yes I do work for ms and that he/she knows for a fact they do not. No one has said they have emailed or called ms and said and have confirmed they don't.
Think rationally for a bit:
1. There are millions of people using MSNM every day, how much space would it take to save all those logs if they would? You don't seriously believe Microsoft (or anybody for that matter) would spend money on something as useless as that now do you?
2. What use are the logs of an average joe to them? They don't know you, what's it to them who you talk to and about what? "Hi, how was your day, bladi bladi bla?" Ohh how interesting
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-15-2005 at 12:01 PM
Like I said you before Bottom line no one that has posted as far as I know works for microsoft and has not said they have. No one has said yes I do work for ms and that he/she knows for a fact they do not. No one has said they have emailed or called ms and said and have confirmed they don't. You want to find out what all they log you call. I dont care what you or anyone else says till you get something from microsoft saying what they do or do not log.
RE: Chat Encryption by Sunshine on 10-15-2005 at 12:07 PM
quote:You are the one who wants to know, not us.
Originally posted by dreaded
Like I said you before Bottom line no one that has posted as far as I know works for microsoft and has not said they have. No one has said yes I do work for ms and that he/she knows for a fact they do not. No one has said they have emailed or called ms and said and have confirmed they don't. You want to find out what all they log you call. I dont care what you or anyone else says till you get something from microsoft saying what they do or do not log.
You want to find out what all they log you call.
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-15-2005 at 12:57 PM
Where have I said I wanted to know? I already know what I need to know. All I have said is if your want me to prove they do then prove to me they dont. Do you work for microsof and know?
RE: Chat Encryption by linx05 on 10-15-2005 at 01:10 PM
quote:You have given us no proof as to whether or not the people at MSN are logging our conversations.
Originally posted by dreaded
Where have I said I wanted to know? I already know what I need to know. All I have said is if your want me to prove they do then prove to me they dont. Do you work for microsof and know?
There isn't really a need for encrypting the messages sent through the server. I doubt it would be made.
RE: Chat Encryption by CookieRevised on 10-15-2005 at 02:17 PM
quote:Believe whatever you want, that is your perfect right...
Originally posted by dreaded
I already know what I need to know. All I have said is if your want me to prove they do then prove to me they dont.
However, the main issue is that we really don't need people like you spreading these urban myths (as this costs us time to correct these, time we could have spend helping other people out).
If you want to believe Big Brother is watching you, then fine. If you want to be the paranoid, fine... But please don't infect and scare other people with that nonsense unless YOU have SOLID proof for it...
RE: Chat Encryption by dreaded on 10-15-2005 at 03:00 PM
Well linx05 if there is no need why do other messengers have it built in. And no one said you had to post back anything CookieRevised. And you have not given me any proof that they dont linx05. I am not scaring anyone. This is the last post I will make. Cause it obivious no one can or want to prove each other wrong lol.
RE: Chat Encryption by Mnjul on 10-15-2005 at 03:16 PM
quote:End of discussion then
Originally posted by dreaded
This is the last post I will make.
