Do you guys think its illegal to picklocks as a hobby or just plain teaching/telling people how to picklocks and/or carrying lockpicks around? What do you think?

Canadian & United States Law

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PART IX OFFENCES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY
Breaking and Entering
Possession of break-in instrument
351. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, has in his possession any instrument suitable for the purpose of breaking into any place, motor vehicle, vault or safe under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the instrument has been used or is or was intended to be used for any such purpose, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 351; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 48.

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what's a lockpick ?

Well, if you're just doing it for leasure and are not going to use the lockpick to break the law, then I think it is fine.

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Originally posted by Johny
what's a lockpick ?

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Originally posted by Johny
what's a lockpick ?

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Originally posted by lou_habs

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Originally posted by Johny
what's a lockpick ?

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usually a little piece of metal you can insert into a lock to imitate having the key, thus opening the lock.

I think that you should be allowed to have one if you really want to. If you want to secure your stuff, don't use a cheap lock. Use something that's going to be alot harder to open using a lockpick [like a dna identifier lock]

No really, I think that law is stupid.

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Are you guys stupid ?

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Originally posted by lou_habs
If you want to secure your stuff, don't use a cheap lock

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it depends on the reason for picking the lock

you can't pick a lock unless it yours or if it has a nuclear bomb within the container period

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Originally posted by Johny
Are you guys stupid ?

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Originally posted by lou_habs
If you want to secure your stuff, don't use a cheap lock

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You must be an asshole.

You buy a lock, you buy any lock, you can even buy a 50c lock...Anyone who picks it should be prosecutted for doing so!it's a crime
AND THE LOCK'S QUALITY HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

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Originally posted by Johny
Are you guys stupid ?

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Originally posted by lou_habs
If you want to secure your stuff, don't use a cheap lock

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You must be an asshole.

You buy a lock, you buy any lock, you can even buy a 50c lock...Anyone who picks it should be prosecutted for doing so!it's a crime
AND THE LOCK'S QUALITY HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

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louhabs is somewhat right when he said "If you want to secure your stuff, don't use a cheap lock"

If you're into lockpicking you'll know that the Bumping meathod works best on expensive locks lol however, its the oposite with the raking or bouncing meathod of picking a lock.

if you don't want kids breaking into your house use an electroic lock, if you wanna keep profesional theafs out of your home, buy security guards a camera, lazer sensors and a dog... a lock will not stop an organized thief from breaking into your house, it will only slow them down.. or just live inside the bank vault or a jail cell.

I think if you can prove what your picking the lock of is your own possesion then its fine but other then that I think its a criminal offence.

HowStuffWorks Lock Picking

i can pick locks...:\

i played splinter cell...

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Originally posted by lou_habs
I think that you should be allowed to have one if you really want to.

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Originally posted by thc2010
Anyways, the reson I wanted to know everyones opinion is so that i can get ready to explain my self to my english teacher why lockpicking isnt illegal but burgualry is.

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Originally posted by thc2010

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Originally posted by Johny
You buy a lock, you buy any lock, you can even buy a 50c lock...Anyone who picks it should be prosecutted for doing so!it's a crime
AND THE LOCK'S QUALITY HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

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Ohh your 100% wrong about this

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Originally posted by thc2010
Locks are primarly used too keep people out, and if you pick a house door open, your insurance agency cant do anything about it becuase they'll just say "You left your door open, im sorry, I cant cover your losses"

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Originally posted by lou_habs
What I meant is, if all your doing is opening the lock, and then closing it again, fine. If you're stealing, far from fine. I didnt mean it to be like that.

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Originally posted by thc2010
Anyways, the reason I wanted to know everyones opinion is so that i can get ready to explain my self to my english teacher why lockpicking isnt illegal but burgualry is.

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Originally posted by Negro_Joe
i can pick locks...:\

i played splinter cell...

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I dont think it should be illegal to pick locks. My next door neighboor learned to pick locks over the summer and its extremely useful. Ive locked myself out of my house so many times and been able to get back in.

There really isnt much of a point of banning the carrying of lock picks because it takes too much time to do and any average criminal would just break a window.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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wow someones got an asshole syndrome 2day.
Lets correct you... Cookie.

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That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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lockpicking IS illegal if the intention is to break in, just as it is stated in the law which you quoted.

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He's 500% correct in that! Breaking in is illegal, it doesn't matter if it was a cheap lock or not. Heck, even if it wasn't locked at all, it is not legal to break in other people's properties...

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True, but that certainly DOES NOT make it legal to break those locks!!!

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Originally posted by .Norma
I dont think it should be illegal to pick locks. My next door neighboor learned to pick locks over the summer and its extremely useful. Ive locked myself out of my house so many times and been able to get back in.

There really isnt much of a point of banning the carrying of lock picks because it takes too much time to do and any average criminal would just break a window.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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For locking yourself out of your house or such, which I do on a monthly basis. Keep it in your back wallet.

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If you unlock something in anyways or means.without the item's owner permission..its illegal.
unless a person is at risk from injury to themselves or others then you may break a lock to put person/persons out of risk,only then.

note:"the owners permission"

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Originally posted by thc2010
wow someones got an asshole syndrome 2day.
also, i take back what I said, your not an asshole, your just trying to be a wise ass

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Originally posted by thc2010

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lockpicking IS illegal if the intention is to break in, just as it is stated in the law which you quoted.

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Dude, lock picking isnt illegal. Burgulary is, did you read what I said properly?

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Originally posted by thc2010

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He's 500% correct in that! Breaking in is illegal, it doesn't matter if it was a cheap lock or not. Heck, even if it wasn't locked at all, it is not legal to break in other people's properties...

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Read before you opinionate, he ment, keeping people out is better if you have a better lock thats expensive.

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I wasnt flaming lol! Im not gona play wise ass with you becuase your the king of that already so no thnx.

and the reson i said: "Read before you opinionate, he ment, keeping people out is better if you have a better lock thats expensive." was becuase your telling me something compleatly difrent to what louhabs ment.

...if the intention is to break in... Ok, so why would you say this again if I already said it 3 times before you said it already along with 2 others whove made this point already before i made this point? Obviusly your just acting smart and repeting what they said.

lmfao "PS: bieng a jerk is againts the rules" hahahahah
I double posted becuase I don't know how to quote another person within the same thread.

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Originally posted by thc2010
and the reson i said: "Read before you opinionate, he ment, keeping people out is better if you have a better lock thats expensive." was becuase your telling me something compleatly difrent to what louhabs ment.

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Originally posted by thc2010
...if the intention is to break in... Ok, so why would you say this again if I already said it 3 times before you said it already along with 2 others whove made this point already before i made this point?

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dude, just give it a damn rest will you, your like a damn annoing tick that wont go away till he knows his better than everyone else. If you want I'll say it for you. "cookie is smarter than me" there does that make you happy? Anyways...

So to narow it down from what ive read so far:
Lockpicking = legal
Burgulary = illegal

anyone wanna argue that locpicking is illegal should know that lockpicking is similar to knowing how to kill someone, Just becuase you know how to kill someone doesnt meen your gonna go out and kill people. Lockpicking is a skill just like reading or Language arts. The way you use it is what makes it legal or illegal. With Languange art, if your a lawyer.. you can manipulate a lie to sound like the truth even though you know that its wrong

Lockpicking = legal ONLY IF THE LOCK IS YOUR OWN JUST AS THE LAW SAYS

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Originally posted by thc2010
dude, just give it a damn rest will you, your like a damn annoing tick that wont go away till he knows his better than everyone else. If you want I'll say it for you. "cookie is smarter than me" there does that make you happy? Anyways...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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Like i said before, lockpicking only defines what your doing, not what you plan on doing.
ie: lockpicking is a skill, burgulary or theft is a choice you made to make your skill usefull.

but ill give you credit for reminding people that just becuase you know how to pick locks doesnt mgive you the right to use it sencelessly

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Originally posted by thc2010
anyone wanna argue that locpicking is illegal should know that lockpicking is similar to knowing how to kill someone

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Originally posted by ShawnZ

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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Locksmith?

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by ShawnZ

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????

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Locksmith?

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Even a locksmith can not lockpick a lock without a good reason (aka: just for fun or to practice or whatever). Although he might say he is a locksmith on duty, if he acts suspecious the police have every right to arrest him too, just as everybody else.

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And rember... simple things as a paperclip can already be used as a lockpick, nobody ever got screwed for carrying on of those around

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Originally posted by thc2010
he's quoting
"That's BS... for what legit reason should you have a lockpicker?????" so he's simply saying Locksmiths have legit reson to have lockpicks

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

Lockpicking = legal ONLY IF THE LOCK IS YOUR OWN JUST AS THE LAW SAYS

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
lou_habs also didn't read properly what Johny said and thus replied with something wrong.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And as far as I know Lou_habs isn't a locksmith....

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WTF Cookie! that is what he's saying?  LOL! Your the one reading peoples qutes the way you want it to be read. If im bieng annoing to you, simply ignore my posts.

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Originally posted by lou_habs
actually you are allowed to lockpick someone's lock if they are in danger

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Originally posted by lou_habs
or if they give you permission

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Originally posted by lou_habs
Knowing how to lockpick = 100% legal.

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Originally posted by thc2010
WTF Cookie! that is what he's saying?  LOL! Your the one reading peoples qutes the way you want it to be read. If im bieng annoing to you, simply ignore my posts.

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Originally posted by lou_habs

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
lou_habs also didn't read properly what Johny said and thus replied with something wrong.

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Maybe not but I posted again, showing what I wanted to mean so dont go flaming me for it.

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(misreading all the time is something else )

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Originally posted by lou_habs

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And as far as I know Lou_habs isn't a locksmith....

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there you go flaming me again. WHY ME?

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Originally posted by thc2010
I find making picks out of paperclips imposible to do... i've tryed them, mybe im just not experianced enought but they alwase seem to bend on me.. whats your say on this?

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Cookie, lets just call it a day and say were even, frankly i dont wanna flame on you for something stupid so lets call it a truce. Also, id like to thnk the people whose posted thier oopinion on lockpicking specialy cookie.. now I know how to argue my case to a teacher. Sieng that we already got our conclusion thanx to Louhabs i think its safe to close this thread if need be.

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Originally posted by MenthiX

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Originally posted by thc2010
I find making picks out of paperclips imposible to do... i've tryed them, mybe im just not experianced enought but they alwase seem to bend on me.. whats your say on this?

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I've seen a documentary on lock picking and see people do it. But they were skilled, a group of people that did it for fun and even held contests. And even those skilled people took it quite some time. And of course it just applies to some types of locks.

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For those of you who are saying you are allowed to break into somebody's house because they are in danger you are actually incorrect. You will always need the person in possession of the land (be it through fee simple or lease) to grant you permission to enter the land (this is known as a fee simple).

Ambulance workers, firefighters, electrical board members and all other people who do legally enter your land actually have a statute granted easement onto your land which gives them permission to enter your land while performing their duty (to cut a long story short).

At least that is the case in Australia; the only thing which would change this in any common law (deriving from the British legal system) jurisdiction is statute which says otherwise. But on a side note, the person in possession would be pretty cruel to sue you for saving their life and in any case would probably receive only nominal damages of $1.

Oh yes, and the mere act of picking another person's lock is clearly illegal provided you don't have permission. This is because you would be commiting conversion. That is, performing an act to a chattel (a thing) which is adverse to the owner's possession of that chattel.

And if that wasn't clear enough, in the statute you quoted actually spells it out. Let me translate it to layman terms,
If you don't have a good legal excuse (which can be proved by anything you have on your person), This might allow you to break into somebody's house to save their life. But why pick the lock and waste precious time when you could smash the window and get in there quicker

have any object which is capable of breaking a lock on a house, vehicle, vault or safe; Yes, this includes say a screwdriver or even a paper clip

and it is reasonable to see that the object has previously been used, or is to be used to break into a lock This is probably the part of the test that would fail for say a screwdriver, but if there is proof that the screwdriver you are using was used to break into somebody's lock (I can't see how you reasonably can infer that somebody holding a screwdriver will in the future break into a lock)

then it is illegal and indictable offence for which you can be jailed for upto ten years although that would obviously depend on how serious the crime is. If the US/Canada is anything like Australia you would probably get a slap on the wrist punishment

you can be jailed for upto ten years
Its actuly less than 10 years not atleast

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is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

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I think it should be illegal because you are breaking privacy of people.

What do you plan on doing, robbing a bank or something?

Should be illegal... but they should make it a sport!.... I want a olympic gold medal for lockpicking!

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Originally posted by thc2010
you can be jailed for upto ten years
Its actuly less than 10 years not atleast

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is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

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Originally posted by thc2010
If the US/Canada is anything like Australia you would probably get a slap on the wrist punishment

I dunno about United States but in canada, you get like 3 years in jail for manslouger just by having legal aid... lol canada is alot more leanient towards criminals, Sad but its true...

And most of us like breaking into things using house hold items becuase you can dispost of them later on or even reuse them for your everyday task to cover up any evedance. ie: If you can pick a lock using bread then you can just eat the bread to get rid of the evidance.

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and then again, a lot of people said about this and sorry but I'm going to repeat. The whole point of the thread (as stated in the title): Knowing is legal, doing it without permission is illegal.

Like hackers. A lot of people love and find like a hobby hacking, just TO KNOW more about the computer/technology world, but hacking into computers is a problem, there are hackers who just know but don't use his knowledge for helping only, there are other hackers who just love to steal information, etc., it's exactly the same and lockpicking.

EDIT: And everybody (or almost) is correct, Cookie is stating perfectly, knowledge is legal and infiltrating personal stuff is illegal.

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Originally posted by illuzn

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Originally posted by thc2010
you can be jailed for upto ten years
Its actuly less than 10 years not atleast

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is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

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I do believe that is what upto means... lol

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Originally posted by thc2010
If the US/Canada is anything like Australia you would probably get a slap on the wrist punishment

I dunno about United States but in canada, you get like 3 years in jail for manslouger just by having legal aid... lol canada is alot more leanient towards criminals, Sad but its true...

And most of us like breaking into things using house hold items becuase you can dispost of them later on or even reuse them for your everyday task to cover up any evedance. ie: If you can pick a lock using bread then you can just eat the bread to get rid of the evidance.

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I dunno about manslaughter but i'm talking about things like break and enter which in Australia only attracts a good behaviour bond period and a fine usually, also possible community service. So for just picking somebody's lock i can't see anybody in Australia getting a hefty term in prison. More likely to get a good behaviour bond and maybe some community service

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Yes.. I have super l337 magic powers that can edit posts without myBB noticing

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Originally posted by Johny
You buy a lock, you buy any lock, you can even buy a 50c lock...Anyone who picks it should be prosecutted for doing so!it's a crime
AND THE LOCK'S QUALITY HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

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I remember I picked a lock before. It was one of those cheap ones and I just had a paper clip. It was pretty cool.

I wouldn't mind knowing how to pick a lock. In case I get locked out of my house or something.

anyway i had a few laying around(cheap ones) and i could open them with a paperclip..
The ones with combinations require no skill

a 4 number index : x y w z has 10 000 solutions

x = {0;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9} and each one of the elements has 999 solutions on the following position. But there's one missing, the 000 one..
So : 999 x 10 + 10 (the ten 000 possible ones) = 9990 + 10 = 10 000 ..You've got to try 10000 combinations on a 4 positions-lock if you desperatly want to open it

lol johny ur so full of it lmfao!
any good lockpicker knows to use a damn padlock shims to open a padlock.. hahahahahhahaha

hmm i remember lockpicking being a feature in the anarchists cookbook... along side making bombs and breaking into cars

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Originally posted by Stigmata
it depends on the reason for picking the lock

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Originally posted by John Anderton

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Originally posted by Johny
You buy a lock, you buy any lock, you can even buy a 50c lock...Anyone who picks it should be prosecutted for doing so!it's a crime
AND THE LOCK'S QUALITY HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

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Exactly. You pick a lock, you should be prosecuted. period

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Originally posted by M73A
hmm i remember lockpicking being a feature in the anarchists cookbook... along side making bombs and breaking into cars

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That wasnt me

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Originally posted by thc2010
u picked a lock you should be prosicuted?
or if your picking a lock as a hoby, you should be prosicuted? be more specific.

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Originally posted by Johny
IF you are doing it as an hobby, what's the use ? Do you want to be a locksmith in the future or do you want to be a thief ?

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Originally posted by Negro_Joe

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Originally posted by Johny
IF you are doing it as an hobby, what's the use ? Do you want to be a locksmith in the future or do you want to be a thief ?

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Oh yea, that makes sense.../

why do it as a hobby? its completly pointless...

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Stop being an ass ?
Locksmith's do it for profession and to do it they SHOULD need a written permission ..
IF you are doing it as an hobby, what's the use ? Do you want to be a locksmith in the future or do you want to be a thief ?

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Originally posted by thc2010
why do people make airplane models as a hoby

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Originally posted by Johny

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Originally posted by thc2010
why do people make airplane models as a hoby

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you don't actually practice for stealing when making airplane models.

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Originally posted by Madman
Who say's your going to steal if you learn to lockpick?

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As a hobby?

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Originally posted by Madman

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Originally posted by Johny
IF you are doing it as an hobby, what's the use ? Do you want to be a locksmith in the future or do you want to be a thief ?

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Umm some people like the challenge of beeing able to open locks. Just like somepeople like the challenge of making a php script, but that doesnt mean they want to become professional php coders in their life? A hobby isnt just means to learning skills you need in later life.

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we remain on the same question :
An hobby that can turn in a malicious activity

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Originally posted by Johny
we remain on the same question :
An hobby that can turn in a malicious activity

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You can widelly use programming for a good activity but it's rare for a lockpicker to do so..

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Originally posted by Johny
You can widelly use programming for a good activity but it's rare for a lockpicker to do so..

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Originally posted by Madman

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Originally posted by Johny
You can widelly use programming for a good activity but it's rare for a lockpicker to do so..

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rare? most people who lockpick dont use it do steal things. The morals of certain people shouldnt mean a hobbie should be banned. I mean look at shooting, lots of people have guns legally and dont threaten or injure humans with them, just because somepeople use them to shoot people should guns be outright banned?

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Originally posted by thc2010
Ohh your 100% wrong about this, Quality of the lock has something to do with it, with cheaper locks, you don't even need to Pick the lock, you can just bypassit by looking for inperfections the manufacturers didnt want you to know about. Also, if you but a lock thats worth more, it will be designed to keep out beginer lockpickers.. some locks in europe actualy are upside down, so thier pins are litraly upside down. So if you used a lockpick gun or a bumping method that exploits newtons law (newtons cradel concept) it will be imposible for anyone to pick that lock using the bumping method or a lockpick gun. So the cost of the locks you buy is Worth it!

Locks are primarly used too keep people out, and if you pick a house door open, your insurance agency cant do anything about it becuase they'll just say "You left your door open, im sorry, I cant cover your losses"

why? thats becuase there is no evidance left if you were to pick a lock for burgulary reasons. If they used a brick to open a window then your insurance agency will cover you.

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