Shoutbox

Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM - Printable Version

-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: Messenger Plus! for Live Messenger (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---- Forum: WLM Plus! Help (/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+----- Thread: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM (/showthread.php?tid=59509)
Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by Kromitvs on 05-18-2006 at 04:33 PM

Hy

I use MP with MSN messenger, right?
But I also use Windows Messenger (the dead one), right?
How can I use without MP?

You've got it?
MSN mensseger with plus, and windows messenger withouth. At the same time.


(I searched for help, but you know how many topics have windows messenger?... even worse now... that it is ALIVE!!!)

RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by matty on 05-18-2006 at 05:16 PM

http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=25692&page=1

Download Messenger Plus! Tweak

Look for in the preferences AttachToWinMsg and AttachToMsnMsg

Or do it yourself in the registry.

HKCU\Software\Patchou\MsgPlus2
   

AttachToWinMsg     dword     1

Boolean value. If false (0), Messenger Plus! does not add its functionalities to Windows Messenger.

HKCU\Software\Patchou\MsgPlus2
   

AttachToMsnMsg     dword     1

Boolean value. If false (0), Messenger Plus! does not add its functionalities to MSN Messenger.

http://www.msgplus.net/help_registry.php

6th and 7th registry values from the bottom.

RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by Kromitvs on 05-18-2006 at 05:27 PM

Thanks Matty!

RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by CookieRevised on 05-18-2006 at 06:33 PM

Such behaviour is not supported....

Although, there are some "tricks" you can do:


----METHOD 1----
only recommended to read this, do not use this method!

First you need to know that Plus! knows 3 different hooking methods:
1) Default hooking
2) Forced hooking
3) Alternative hooking

The first two are, in this context, roughly the same. When one of these hooking methods is choosen, the executable MsgPlus.exe must be running in the background. This executable is just the loader of Messenger Plus! which checks if the starting program is Messenger or not, it is not Messenger Plus! itself. If the starting program isn't Messenger, the executable (the Plus! loader) does absolutely nothing. If the starting program is Messenger, the executable (the Plus! loader) will start Messenger Plus! (MsgPlusH.DLL) and will hook it to the program.

This also means that msgplus.exe (the loader) doesn't need to be running once Messenger Plus! is hooked. and thus this also gives you a hint of one way you can do what you want.

The third method uses a different approach. Instead of an always needing to run Plus! loader, thus the executable msgplus.exe, a special registry setting is applied to Windows. With this special registry setting the loader does not need to be running all the time. It will only be loaded and executed when a program starts up. This loading of the Plus! loader is automatically done by Windows itself. The rest works the same: once the Plus! loader is loaded it checks if the current program which has started is Messenger; if it is it loads and hooks Messenger Plus! itself (MsgPlusH.DLL), if not it quits again.

------------

So.... This means that you can't use the third method as the hooking option in Plus! (although IMO this is the preferred way of hooking in many situations) as you can't control when the loader of Plus! is loaded.

Only when you select the "default hooking" method you could control when the Plus! loader is loaded in this way:

  1. Load the Plus! loader (aka, run msgplus.exe)
  2. Load MSN Messenger
  3. Wait a couple of seconds until Messenger Plus! itself is loaded and hooked into MSN Messenger
  4. Kill the Plus! loader process (aka, kill msgplus.exe) !!!
  5. Load Windows Messenger
    (as there isn't a Plus! loader loaded/running anymore, Messenger Plus! will not be loaded and hooked into Windows Messenger)
Note that this method, though working, is not supported at all as it can cause problems for Messenger Plus!....





----METHOD 2----
use this documented method instead

Another method, and documented in the official help pages and thus much much safer to do is to use some advanced Messenger Plus! registry keys:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Patchou\MsgPlus2\AttachToMsnMsg
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Patchou\MsgPlus2\AttachToWinMsg

They should contain a DWORD value of either 1 (true) or 0 (false). When they don't exist, the default value of 1 (true) is assumed.

They keys themselfs already explain what they do:
  • When AttachToMsnMsg doesn't exist or has the value 1, Plus! will hook into MSN Messenger. If AttachToMsnMsg has the value 0, it will not hook into MSN Messenger.

  • When AttachToWinMsg doesn't exist or has the value 1, Plus! will hook into Windows Messenger. If AttachToWinMsg has the value 0, it will not hook into Windows Messenger.
In other words, in your case, just create a new DWORD registry key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Patchou\MsgPlus2\AttachToWinMsg
and set its value to 0.



This is the recommended method, also because it doesn't have problems with other possible registry keys like the RUN registry key which is always created when Plus! is loaded and hooked.
(More and that here: "CookieRevised's reply to Startupmonitor issue").







--------------------

blah, /me kills Matty for being faster... I'm not going to delete this whole post now, after all the trouble of writing this... :XP: though I'll give Matty the "pluim" (yeah, its dutch) for it... ;)
RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by Kromitvs on 05-18-2006 at 06:53 PM

:-)

Thanks a lot for your work CookieRevised! ;-)


Now people, will have the complete explanation (and the practical answer...).



(By the way, Babel Fish doesn’t recognize pluim...)

...
Since you've gone to all this trouble... let me just ask a really newbie question:

Doesn't all this checking witch program is loading, loading/unloading loader and so on, and so on, take up a lot of resources (CPU/memory...etc)? Wouldn't it be really easy just to change the msn link to plus and let it load itself and then msn? Or change msn exe file to "something else" and put plus in its place?

I'm guessing that if it was, it would have been done by now - plus doesn’t strike me as a lamer's job...
I told you it was a newbie question, right?

RE: RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by CookieRevised on 05-18-2006 at 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kromitvs
Since you've gone to all this trouble... let me just ask a really newbie question:

Doesn't all this checking witch program is loading, loading/unloading loader and so on, and so on, take up a lot of resources (CPU/memory...etc)?
Not a newbie question though.... It is quite normal that this question is asked.

But no, it takes extremely little resources/cpu/memory.

All it does is just checking if the opened program is msn messenger, nothing more, just 1 check. This is also so quick that you even wouldn't notice the difference on a dead slow computer.

The reason why the Plus! loader is a seperate "program" is exactly to keep this as fast as possible. If Plus! itself would be loaded in memory all the time (even when it is not needed; aka you don't have messenger running) that would require far more resources and memory and would be much much slower. (note: this was the very old method of hooking, which was long ago changed in favor to the seperate modules).

quote:
Originally posted by Kromitvs
Wouldn't it be really easy just to change the msn link to plus and let it load itself and then msn?
Not so "really easy" as it doesn't so much prevent the need for the current hooking methods as Plus! still needs to be hooked. Plus! is still a seperate program. It is exactly the hooking which makes it seem like Plus! and messenger are the same program when used.

Though, what you suggest is also possible with some other registry settings and the use of a parameter (/winstart). You can set some registry settings so that when msgplus.exe is loaded it automatically loads messenger too. For that see the link in my reply to this thread:
quote:
(More and that here: "CookieRevised's reply to Startupmonitor issue").
But as you read the above link, you'll also see that the whole loading/hooking isn't as strait forward as you might think and some stuff needs to be taken in account as explained in that linked post (hence why I said " Not so "really easy" " ;))




--------
PS: "pluim" is "feather" in English.
The expression "putting a feather on someone's hat", or derived from that: "giving a feather to someone" means giving someone credits for something; aka saying "well done".
RE: Loading MP with MSN not loading with WM by Kromitvs on 05-27-2006 at 03:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
But no, it takes extremely little resources/cpu/memory.

Well, thanks for the insigth.
After checking your link I think I will leave MP hook the way he likes it... After all, if there's no significant resources saved... I 'll save my own...

Thanks ;-)