JScript too hard to use - Printable Version
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JScript too hard to use by zero_kool on 07-06-2006 at 08:40 PM
this is way too hard for someone to use javascript i think you guys should re think javascript and atleast vb script or creat a dll for .net or sumthing
RE: Scripts by Thor on 07-06-2006 at 08:46 PM
Actually JScript is easier for beginners than VB and .net.
dll's can still be used, u just call them from the script. 
RE: Scripts by JonnyT on 07-06-2006 at 09:02 PM
i've found JScript fairly easy only been using it since MsgPlus Live was released, i've found it easier then vb6
RE: Scripts by zero_kool on 07-09-2006 at 05:16 AM
well vb is way easier
RE: Scripts by Weyzza on 07-09-2006 at 05:22 AM
Well, if you've already have the programming concept, any kind of language should be easy to learn, don't you think? 
Maybe language A is more powerful than language B, but language B might also have some features than language A doesn't have.
RE: RE: Scripts by segosa on 07-09-2006 at 05:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by zero_kool
well vb is way easier
Well that's too bad. The scripting engine's language is not going to be changed to VBScript just because one person thinks it's easier and is too lazy to learn JScript.
RE: Scripts by Chestah on 07-09-2006 at 08:21 AM
Agreed with Segosa. If you want to use VB then refer to your .dlls through some Jscript or.. learn JScript.
RE: JScript too hard to use by Tails on 07-09-2006 at 08:58 AM
JS is easier, but the syntax is different then VB and that's probebly what you think is confusing. The syntax is a little wierd yes, but it works just as well.
Each programming language has a strength and a weakness. They both co-enside with each other.
RE: JScript too hard to use by TheBlasphemer on 07-09-2006 at 10:58 PM
And once again the famous quote by Edgar W. Dijkstra is proven to be right:
"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
RE: JScript too hard to use by Pai on 07-09-2006 at 11:26 PM
Just a small add, I had never used VB or whatever, only Pascal/Delphi and honestly the first time I heard of Jscript was with MP!L. So I had no experience with whatever languages you can find easier, and after starting to learn JScript about a month ago I'm quite confortable with it now.
The trick: use Google wisely ! And some previous basic knowladge of any language is good (that you have)
RE: JScript too hard to use by cooldude_i06 on 07-09-2006 at 11:33 PM
JScript is almost exactly like Javascript, and I think every programmer should have experience using javascript. Once you learn "real" languages like javascript, php, c++, java, etc.. you will find BASIC very annoying.
RE: JScript too hard to use by cloudhunter on 07-09-2006 at 11:37 PM
Well I started off with JavaScript then php and I find JScript fairly straightforward. I have already completed some basic scripts for myself. So it should be pretty easy to pick up. And as always, google is your friend...
Cloudy
RE: RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 01:32 AM
quote:Basic IS a real language.... don't get me started on that....
Originally posted by cooldude_i06
JScript is almost exactly like Javascript, and I think every programmer should have experience using javascript. Once you learn "real" languages like javascript, php, c++, java, etc.. you will find BASIC very annoying.
It is not because someone has problems with a new syntax that a language becomes useless or not good to teach programming.
It is NOT the used language which is the cause of bad programming behaviours!!!!!! (in fact I see just as much crap from other beginning programmers in other languages than Basic)....
Oh, and VBScript would have been a more powerfull choice for a scripting language than JScript actually. Everything you can do in JScript you can do in VBScript and even more stuff... JScript doesn't even support different variable types (except a very few), not to mention it passes variables always by value, etc... etc... etc... If there is a 'bad' programming language to learn programming from it would be in fact JScript.
(and it would be those exact c++ programmers who would be complaining if it was vbscript which was been choosen, because it would be them who wouldn't be used to the syntax instead. Would that make c++ a bad base to learn programming... I don't think so)
RE: JScript too hard to use by cooldude_i06 on 07-10-2006 at 02:52 AM
The main thing I hate about VBscript and Basic are the if statements. Especially if you use the "Not" and "And" together, you have much frustration to face.
RE: JScript too hard to use by wlmcrap on 07-10-2006 at 03:01 AM
Man, JScript & JavaScript are WAY.... MORE easier for beginners compared to VB and .NET
RE: JScript too hard to use by cloudhunter on 07-10-2006 at 10:13 AM
I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Programming languages are just a means to an end, they all have the same result - e.g. a program, and if you grasp the basic concept of programming, with a little effort you can learn the new syntax.
Cloudy
RE: RE: RE: JScript too hard to use by TheBlasphemer on 07-10-2006 at 10:35 AM
quote:BASIC is a real language, but it's completely different to most other programming languages. cooldude_06 explicitly put real between apostrophes, so stop attacking something he didn't even say
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Basic IS a real language.... don't get me started on that....
Originally posted by cooldude_i06
JScript is almost exactly like Javascript, and I think every programmer should have experience using javascript. Once you learn "real" languages like javascript, php, c++, java, etc.. you will find BASIC very annoying.
quote:It does actually. You wouldn't be using old-style C to teach proper object orientation, would you ?
It is not because someone has problems with a new syntax that a language becomes useless or not good to teach programming.
quote:Every beginning programmer has permission to write crap, that's one of the rights you have when you just start off. However, with BASIC, it's not just beginning programmers fucking up... I've seen incredibly bad code from self-proclaimed "programmers" using visual basic.
It is NOT the used language which is the cause of bad programming behaviours!!!!!! (in fact I see just as much crap from other beginning programmers in other languages than Basic)....
quote:JScript *has* different variable types, but they're wrapped in a common variant-type. Try the "typeof" keyword.
Oh, and VBScript would have been a more powerfull choice for a scripting language than JScript actually. Everything you can do in JScript you can do in VBScript and even more stuff... JScript doesn't even support different variable types (except a very few), not to mention it passes variables always by value, etc... etc... etc... If there is a 'bad' programming language to learn programming from it would be in fact JScript.
You're also wrong about JScript not having ByRef types. It might not have a simple keyword like VBScript, but it surely is possible (especially with objects).
If you want to learn programming, I wouldn't recommend JScript or JavaScript, but rather C++. If you just want to learn scripting, and that's what this really is about, JScript would certainly be one of the choices among PHP and several others.
I would never recommend VBScript, VB, or BASIC for any other purpose than quick and dirty "programs" that have no need to be reliable whatsoever.
quote:I wouldn't be complaining about the syntax. I, and I am sure most other C/C++ programmers, can get along quite fine in BASIC.
(and it would be those exact c++ programmers who would be complaining if it was vbscript which was been choosen, because it would be them who wouldn't be used to the syntax instead. Would that make c++ a bad base to learn programming... I don't think so)
I wouldn't like it though, as I think JScript is so much more powerful (OO, need I say more?), and as I am convinced that Basic and all variants and dialects on it are the spawn of the devil...
Now stop advocating something not worth existing in the first place...
RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 12:39 PM
TB, if you know as much of Basic as you know about C++ (and the likes, etc) I wouldnt be discussing this with you or wouldn't go deeper in on it. But the fact that I know you simply don't "like" Basic doesn't make Basic crap though. I deeply, very deeply, respect your knoweldge of C++, but for Basic I think you base your judgement a bit too much on "liking the syntax or not" than anything else...
VBscript can handle OO just as well as JScript does. As I said VBscript IS more powerfull than JScript and DOES know far more possebilities, types, etc... There is absolutely nothing 'dirty' about it. In fact, it's the opposite!! Todo in JScript what you can do in VBScript you actually need to revert to 'dirty' workarounds in JScript.
Also, the passing by reference in JScript for objects is even a 'dirty hack' on its own as it is in fact NOT passing objects by reference iether. But for convenience and easyness to explain it is said it does, as it is hard to explain otherwise. There are papers written about this and explaining this in very much details with technical details "from under the hood" and by those who actually were involved in creating the language and stuff. If I find those links again I'll post them.
quote:which is extremely and so typical to say from someone who swears with C++ like languages. (and I know you now gonna reply with "and it is so typical to say that from someone who programs in Basic"
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I would never recommend VBScript, VB, or BASIC for any other purpose than quick and dirty "programs" that have no need to be reliable whatsoever.
). Basic IS reliable, Basic IS good to learn programming as it has a very easy learning curve, Basic IS not dirty programming...Again, it is NOT the language used which makes someone a bad habit programmer at all!
Note: I'm defending Basic in general, yes. But that does NOT mean I don't like C++ or any other language for that matter. I'm not the one who is pinned strait into a certain programming language and thinking all the rest is BS. It is not because a syntax is different in a certain language than what you're used to that the language is crap.
This is exactly the same as all those "C++ is holy"-people proclaiming for years that Basic doesn't even know pointers. This simply shows that those people don't even know what they're talking about as variable handling in basic is exactly based upon pointers and each and every variable you creat in basic IS actually a pointer...
You have every right to not like a language (aka the syntax), of course, that speaks for itself. But that doesn't mean that the language is crap, dirty, unreliable or whatever.
It is not because Basic is called "basic" that it is a "basic" language or it is not that the "b" stand for "beginners" that it is nothing worth. The very first basica versions might have been, but since then it has evolved into lots more and is far away from the stuff it was 30 years ago.
The ONLY thing you can say about Basic is that it, because of all the "blackmaking", it also attracts script-kiddies who proclaim themselfs "experts". And it are those crap codes from those script kiddies which makes Basic having a bad name. However that it not the fault of the language or its syntax but the fault of those stupid kiddies who think they can program when they can popup a box on the screen. This doesn't mean the language is crap, it means those kiddies are crap.
RE: JScript too hard to use by Volv on 07-10-2006 at 12:43 PM
For some reason I dont think anything said here by anyone will change the fact that Plus! uses JScript, so get over it and stop arguing about trivial matters...
RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 12:50 PM
quote:very true, but I'm defending a perfect real reliable and good language from the bad stuff said about it. Stuff said which is even trivial (and not true) to start with...
Originally posted by Volv
For some reason I dont think anything said here by anyone will change the fact that Plus! uses JScript, so get over it and stop arguing about trivial matters...
quote:
Originally posted by Tails
Each programming language has a strength and a weakness. They both co-enside with each other.
RE: JScript too hard to use by John Anderton on 07-10-2006 at 12:52 PM
If BASIC isnt a real language then i dont know what is Its BASIC that i learnt as a kid and loved. It didnt have as much power as C and C++ (duh!!!) but its absolutely awesome imo. Really fun to learn when you are a kid and you are starting to learn how to operate your pc (basics which we learn as kids)
I only knew C and C++ and i dont find learning JScript that tough tbh. Its actually easier if anything 
Plus JScript isnt as strict as something like C and C++ as for the rules. And as Volv said
quote:
Originally posted by Volv
For some reason I dont think anything said here by anyone will change the fact that Plus! uses JScript, so get over it and stop arguing about trivial matters...
RE: RE: JScript too hard to use by TheBlasphemer on 07-10-2006 at 02:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
TB, if you know as much of Basic as you know about C++ (and the likes, etc) I wouldnt be discussing this with you or wouldn't go deeper in on it. But the fact that I know you simply don't "like" Basic doesn't make Basic crap though. I deeply, very deeply, respect your knoweldge of C++, but for Basic I think you base your judgement a bit too much on "liking the syntax or not" than anything else...
VBscript can handle OO just as well as JScript does. As I said VBscript IS more powerfull than JScript and DOES know far more possebilities, types, etc... There is absolutely nothing 'dirty' about it. In fact, it's the opposite!! Todo in JScript what you can do in VBScript you actually need to revert to 'dirty' workarounds in JScript.
I stand corrected, VBScript does have a class keyword since version 5.0.
quote:It's not passing objects by reference indeed, but it does exactly what you'd want it to. So if you can "create" your own ByRef methods, then why say you can't ?
Also, the passing by reference in JScript for objects is even a 'dirty hack' on its own as it is in fact NOT passing objects by reference iether. But for convenience and easyness to explain it is said it does, as it is hard to explain otherwise. There are papers written about this and explaining this in very much details with technical details "from under the hood" and by those who actually were involved in creating the language and stuff. If I find those links again I'll post them.
And don't say that'd be a dirty hack. Saying that is a dirty hack, would be like saying that every function you write is a dirty hack...
quote:For very quick and small programs, BASIC might be reliable. It is, however, extremely difficult to keep a big program in BASIC reliable.quote:which is extremely and so typical to say from someone who swears with C++ like languages. (and I know you now gonna reply with "and it is so typical to say that from someone who programs in Basic"
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I would never recommend VBScript, VB, or BASIC for any other purpose than quick and dirty "programs" that have no need to be reliable whatsoever.
quote:It's not the language that makes you a bad programmer, but BASIC tends to compliment bad programming styles.
Again, it is NOT the language used which makes someone a bad habit programmer at all!
quote:Are you saying that I pinned right to C++? That's bullshit. I've used QuickBasic for ages, did a few years of Visual Basic, and moved on to C++. I do however still use other languages, like Java (mobile phone development), PHP (web development), and JavaScript (client-side web development), and if necesarry I can pick up any language I want in a matter of weeks.
Note: I'm defending Basic in general, yes. But that does NOT mean I don't like C++ or any other language for that matter. I'm not the one who is pinned strait into a certain programming language and thinking all the rest is BS. It is not because a syntax is different in a certain language than what you're used to that the language is crap.
I'm not saying "the rest" is BS, that's not true. There's a lot of good programming languages around... BASIC is definitaly not one of them though!
quote:
This is exactly the same as all those "C++ is holy"-people proclaiming for years that Basic doesn't even know pointers. This simply shows that those people don't even know what they're talking about as variable handling in basic is exactly based upon pointers and each and every variable you creat in basic IS actually a pointer...
code:This might not be a very useful example of pointers, yet I am sure that you can't just do that in VB.
DWORD dwBlah=0xBAADF00D;
BYTE *pBlah=(BYTE*)&dwBlah;
printf("A part of the number is: %d\r\n",pBlah[1]);
As for VB vars being pointers, that's bullshit. They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less. They *can* contain pointers, yet VB will never treat them as such.
quote:I like the language. It's simple and fun. But that still does not mean it's reliable and useful. You might be able to write a program in BASIC, yet I don't think you can call yourself a real programmer if you can only write programs in BASIC.
You have every right to not like a language (aka the syntax), of course, that speaks for itself. But that doesn't mean that the language is crap, dirty, unreliable or whatever.
quote:
It is not because Basic is called "basic" that it is a "basic" language or it is not that the "b" stand for "beginners" that it is nothing worth. The very first basica versions might have been, but since then it has evolved into lots more and is far away from the stuff it was 30 years ago.
quote:
Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_programming_language
BASIC (an acronym for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code[1])
quote:You've got loads of scriptkiddies like that in C++ that can write a simple MessageBox and think they're a C++ master. Hell, every language has those. But I don't see anyone calling C++ names ?
The ONLY thing you can say about Basic is that it, because of all the "blackmaking", it also attracts script-kiddies who proclaim themselfs "experts". And it are those crap codes from those script kiddies which makes Basic having a bad name. However that it not the fault of the language or its syntax but the fault of those stupid kiddies who think they can program when they can popup a box on the screen. This doesn't mean the language is crap, it means those kiddies are crap.
And I know why, because it's a respected programming language that has proven to be very very useful, in contrast to VB.
RE: JScript too hard to use by markee on 07-10-2006 at 02:45 PM
I believe that any scripting language is as good as the next depending on your skill level, what you are using it for and your knowledge from the past. You cannot say that something is not worth learning because everything that you learn adds to wht you can do in the future. It is not for you to say that a scripting language is not worthy of being learnt because all are as they are all stepping stones so people can make great programs in the future.
The likes of pascal is quite useless as there is very little you can do with it, but it is also very easy to learn from and be able to use the understanding you get from using it to then help with the next language you learn. The more languages you learn the more you can do with your programming and the more efficient and reliable programs your can make based upon your judgement of the most appropriate scripting language you choose.
I for one find the use of JScript in the scripting engine of MP!L to be quite useful (remember this is what the actual thread is about). JScript might not be the best choice in some people's eyes, in other's it is a great choice, everyone is different and finds the difficulty to use something different along with the potential that each language holds. Without this difference of ideals what is the point of different scipting languages?
RE: JScript too hard to use by ShawnZ on 07-10-2006 at 02:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by markee
The likes of pascal is quite useless as there is very little you can do with it
uhh, you could learn delphi...
RE: JScript too hard to use by markee on 07-10-2006 at 03:11 PM
quote:True but I was trying to make a point
Originally posted by ShawnZ
quote:
Originally posted by markee
The likes of pascal is quite useless as there is very little you can do with it
uhh, you could learn delphi...
I learnt pascal in school and quit my computing classes before we moved on to delphi (didn't work with my timetable and what I wanted). But the knowledge of pascal has helped me with using JScript for te scripting in MP!L and gave me confidence in programming and trying new things with things like this. I might not be as good as CookieRevised or TB (or will be anywhere near as good) but both of them, just like anyone else, have to relise that jst because you like something and see it's use as the epitome of programming languages doesn't mean it is (and nor does that mean that it isn't either), every program serves a purpose, if it is to help beginners get feel for programming then that's as useful, if not more useful than the likes of VB or C++ or whatever else someone likes to use for their whiz-bang programs.
RE: JScript too hard to use by TheGeek on 07-10-2006 at 04:20 PM
Well, in my opinion (which doesn't really matter) the vb keywords are too long for writing code. That might be because i'm used to typing with brackets and semicolons, but for me, "if(true){return;}else{return;}" is more useful than "If True Then ...".
Some people might say it's more readable, but imo, the syntax of the other programming languages are more readable than vb once you get used to it.
RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 07:06 PM
quote:erm, that's absolutely not true.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less.
RE: JScript too hard to use by TheBlasphemer on 07-10-2006 at 07:08 PM
quote:In WScript (which is VBScript and JScript together), everything is the VARIANT type... honestly
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:erm, that's absolutely not true.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less.
RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 07:18 PM
quote:It's as much reliable as any other language (including C++), even for big programs or whatever.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I like the language. It's simple and fun. But that still does not mean it's reliable and useful.
quote:That's exactly what I said: "It's not because the "b" stands for "beginners" that the language is ... yadda yadda..."
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
quote:
Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_programming_language
BASIC (an acronym for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code[1])
quote:It's because VB programmers respect C++, yes, UNLIKE C++ programmers respecting VB (and that is what I mean with people like you are "pinned" to C++ or the likes. They don't respect it based upon wrong stuff and their OWN personal likings as they think C++ is holy and uberleet and the rest is minor (simply because it is a different syntax or because they actually do not know it as good as they know c++). In fact, this is just the same as someone not respecting another culture because he/she thinks its "minor"...
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
You've got loads of scriptkiddies like that in C++ that can write a simple MessageBox and think they're a C++ master. Hell, every language has those. But I don't see anyone calling C++ names ?
And I know why, because it's a respected programming language that has proven to be very very useful, in contrast to VB.
quote:obviously I'm talking about VB...
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
quote:In WScript (which is VBScript and JScript together), everything is the VARIANT type... honestly
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:erm, that's absolutely not true.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less.
And why would you say an argument like "vbscript doesn't even know true types, except variants" when this is just the same in jscript??? In other words, don't try to talk you out of this
You even stated "VB" yourself, not "vbscript".quote:That's very true (wow, and this comming from a VB programmer
Originally posted by TheGeek
Well, in my opinion (which doesn't really matter) the vb keywords are too long for writing code. That might be because i'm used to typing with brackets and semicolons, but for me, "if(true){return;}else{return;}" is more useful than "If True Then ...".
Some people might say it's more readable, but imo, the syntax of the other programming languages are more readable than vb once you get used to it.
).... the thing is Basic was developed with exactly that in mind, to create a syntax which is 'readable' and close resembles english sentences/words to untrained people so it is more open to start programming in it than another language.The thing with this is; some people think that basic is minor, unreliable and what not because of this. It's simply the syntax, even if it was in Chinese the language would still work the same. a logic and comparisson will still be a logic and comparisson, just as in C++, Cobol, Fortran, Pascal, Delphi, whatever.
And because it is more 'readable' to an untrained and first beginning programmer, it is much more easy to actualy learn to program in VB for example than it is in C++; the learning curve is less steep.
99,9999999% of all arguments comming from people who mainly program in C++ have to do with exactly that; Because basic was first meant for 'beginners' they think it's shit, unreliable and whatever. They almost never base their findings on facts but on things they believe or hear from others. Look at the vbscript vs. jscript arguments, nice example. Even the fact that vbscript is actually more powerfull and can do more things than jscript doesn't matter for them; they don't like the syntax or it has the word "basic" in it so it is a 'worse' language. And that has been so pinned in to them "basic is evil" that they even don't see what it is actually capable of; it is automatically judged as "bad'.
RE: RE: JScript too hard to use by TheBlasphemer on 07-10-2006 at 07:51 PM
I'm not going to respond to the whole post, too tired for that. Most of it is just repeating what you said earlier, seemingly even without looking what I said.
quote:That's not what you said. Re-read your own post, or get a refresher coursein the english language.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's exactly what I said: "It's not because the "b" stands for "beginners" that the language is ... yadda yadda..."
quote:Oh come on, with all the scriptkiddies (which you yourself acknowledged to exist), there's bound to be loads of em that would like to call C++ crap and such. The main reason people don't mess with C++ is because they know that their OS and their most used applications are very likely to be written in C++.
It's because VB programmers respect C++, yes, UNLIKE C++ programmers respecting VB
quote:Yeah, who would think there's a difference between High-Level programming languages and Low-Level programming languages anyway?
(and that is what I mean with people like you are "pinned" to C++ or the likes. They don't respect it based upon wrong stuff and their OWN personal likings as they think C++ is holy and uberleet and the rest is minor (simply because it is a different syntax or because they actually do not know it as good as they know c++). In fact, this is just the same as someone not respecting another culture because he/she thinks its "minor"...
Yeah, sure just the syntax, ofcourse.... dream on...
I mostly respect what you say, but saying that the only difference between VB and C++ is the syntax is plain bullshit.
quote:Internally the VB Virtual Machine just uses VARIANTs and BSTRs, nothing more nothing less.quote:obviously I'm talking about VB...
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
quote:In WScript (which is VBScript and JScript together), everything is the VARIANT type... honestly
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:erm, that's absolutely not true.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less.
quote:I didn't say VBScript doesn't know true types, because apparently it does. I said that internally VBScript uses the VARIANT data-type, and as such it does *not* deal with pointers.
And why would you say an argument like "vbscript doesn't even know true types, except variants" when this is just the same in jscript??? In other words, don't try to talk you out of this
Anyway, I'm sick and tired of this discussion. You can just keep believing you're right and you can keep repeating the same bullshit over and over again, I'm just no longer going to bother replying to it again.
RE: RE: RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-10-2006 at 08:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I'm not going to respond to the whole post, too tired for that. Most of it is just repeating what you said earlier, seemingly even without looking what I said.
quote:That's not what you said. Re-read your own post, or get a refresher coursein the english language.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
That's exactly what I said: "It's not because the "b" stands for "beginners" that the language is ... yadda yadda..."
that is exactly what I said.... in Dutch:"Het is niet dat "b" voor "beginners" staat, dat de taal...."
or
"Het is niet omdat "b" voor "beginners" staat, dat de taal...."
or
"Het is niet omwille van het feit dat "b" voor "beginners" staat, dat de taal...."
or
"Dat D niet E is, wil nog niet zeggen dat D geen letter is"
etc...
quote:there might of course be some like that. But the reasons for them to say such stuff is exactly the same reason as why 99,999% of the C++ people flame on VB.
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
quote:Oh come on, with all the scriptkiddies (which you yourself acknowledged to exist), there's bound to be loads of em that would like to call C++ crap and such.
It's because VB programmers respect C++, yes, UNLIKE C++ programmers respecting VB
All others who program in VB indeed don't say such stuff as they know what C++ can do and stands for. Vice versa, this is unfortunatly not true. It's like the C++ people have blindfolds on or simply repeat what has been pumped in their brain (to say it crudely).
quote:Ermm... all these arguments are not going on about x being low-level and y being a high-level language. All these arguments go about how "shit", "unreliable", and whatever other totally biased word which might be used, a language is....
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Yeah, who would think there's a difference between High-Level programming languages and Low-Level programming languages anyway?
High-level/low-level are not synonyms for "leet" and "shit"... It's not because C++ is a lower-level (note lower, not low)(and depends on definition of high/low-level, as one could argue both are on the same level actually, but with C++ being more advanced. But for the sake of this argument, I totally agree on it being a lower-level language) language than VB, that VB is crap, unreliable and what not. If that would be true, then by definition C++ would be crap too because compared to assembly C++ is a high-level language.
I don't argue because someone says VB is a higher-level language, I argue because someone says VB is 'crap' because they don't know the capabilities of VB.
There are many posts (and mostly from C++ 'programmers', coincidence or not) who claim this and that can't be done in VB and as such proclaim VB to be a crap language in the same breath. While in fact the stuff, they claim can't be done, can quite often actually be perfectly done (PS: and before you argue, yes I know not everything C++ can do can be done in VB, but I'm not talking about those things). It is about such posts and comments I argue about (examples enough on the net of such claims; in fact even in the messenger community you'll find lots of those...). And it are those posts which trigger my arguing.
Not liking a language or syntax of a language or whatever is one thing. But not liking it and dishing it in the same breath because you don't fully know its potential is something else.
quote:Of course I'm not saying that this is the only difference. I say that is quite often what most people judge it by. That together with not knowing what it really can do (because they don't bother experimenting with it because they don't find it interesting because they don't like the syntax)....
Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Yeah, sure just the syntax, ofcourse.... dream on...
I mostly respect what you say, but saying that the only difference between VB and C++ is the syntax is plain bullshit.
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about that pointer discussion... VB handles, knows and can deal with pointers, internally and externally.... It might not provide all of the functionalities which you can do with pointers in C++ (then again, most of those things can be done in another way) but it sure does knows and handles pointers.
quote:You said VB, not vbSCRIPT, hence my reply on it. VB variables are not all variants at all (even internally).
I didn't say VBScript doesn't know true types, because apparently it does. I said that internally VBScript uses the VARIANT data-type, and as such it does *not* deal with pointers.
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Anyways, so far for our annual returning discussion (wonder if the previous one about vb vs c++ still exists)
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RE: JScript too hard to use by flypegasus® on 07-11-2006 at 09:30 AM
i would prefer VB to JBScript too
i tried to write a simple code but i felt dissapointed to learn that i have to learn a brand new language from the beginning...
i wish i could add value to messengerpluslive too 
RE: JScript too hard to use by CookieRevised on 07-11-2006 at 10:32 AM
quote:It's not that different though. The syntax is a bit different but all in all it is relativly easly to learn, especially if you have already some programming experience. Tutorials can be found on the net (though make sure you look for "JScript" and not "JavaScript" as both are not the same).
Originally posted by flypegasus®
i tried to write a simple code but i felt dissapointed to learn that i have to learn a brand new language from the beginning...
You'll find that you will be writing small stuff in no time when you experiment with and study already existing examples (eg: from the script database).