how much further can reality TV go ? - Printable Version
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how much further can reality TV go ? by toddy on 05-29-2007 at 08:06 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
surely one of the most sickening tv shows ever made
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by prashker on 05-29-2007 at 08:09 PM
heh, my friend told me about it today, pretty weird 
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 05-29-2007 at 08:11 PM
We're the Dutch, we invented reality TV (well, Big Brother) 
.
The show is weird, but i can't say i'm against it.
It's meant to be a one-time show which is trying to get attention to make more people organ donor, which is a good thing. You could say it's weird that somebody gets to decide which person gets to have your kidneys, but the woman decides that herself, it are her kidneys, why shouldn't she be allowed to decide what happens to her own body?
Viewers can send SMS messages (which is unfortunately typical for *every* TV show these days), but they are not deciding, choice is still up to the woman.
Very weird show, but unacceptable? Not anymore unacceptable than putting people on a years-long waitinglist and having several die in the process.
It would be different when this would have aired on Talpa (a very sensational dutch tv station), or when this would have been a series... But this is a one-time show done by BNN which also did a show called "Try before you die" which was about terminally sick people who fulfilled their last wishes before they died, which was a surprisingly interesting show, not sensational at all.
quote:TBH, if i watch yet another season of Big Brother, or even worse "De Gouden Kooi" that airs here now and i compare that to what they say The Big Donor Show will be, i think Big Brother and Gouden Kooi are more sickening... at least this show won't feature people that act totally fake and are only in it for the money, and at least this show will have a message to deliver.
Originally posted by toddy
surely one of the most sickening tv shows ever made
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by CookieRevised on 05-29-2007 at 08:25 PM
As I live in Belgium (neighbourgh country of the Netherlands), the story is well covered here. I also witnessed the start of the BNN station many years ago. And I sometimes watch BNN.
What they don't say (as much) in the stories is the big thing and legacy which Bart De Graaf (late director of BNN who died at 35 of kidney failure - he was waiting for donors too!) left behind in the media landscape of the Netherlands (and Belgium). And that this 'show' is only a one time thing to honor Bart De Graaf who died exactly x years ago (can't remember). I can perfectly understand their point of view. This certainly isn't a simple "let's make some new reality tv-series".
The issues at hand are indeed something to be discussed. And that is exactly what they are trying todo with this. To point out that people could save hundreds of lifes if they put up their organs for donations when they die. There are massive long waiting lists for donors...
On the other hand, maybe it isn't the best way to put this on the political agenda and it goes pretty far (but not too far?) as in what should be allowed on tv or not.
Still, it is very true that the 3 people participating in the 'contest' have an extremely bigger chance of getting a kidney than otherwise. Also, they are all three screened for having the closest match.
Note that the person who gives her kidney away would have done exactly the same thing in real life if it wasn't for the show. The only difference is that it comes on tv now.
The biggest problem people are having with this is that people at home can vote also to choose who gets the kidney (though this will not be decisive). And thus people at home will probably vote more on 'looks' than anything else. And as such, some have called it discriminating...
Also note that at BNN itself, they internally are constantly discussing this also and internally they are a bit divided too if they should continue with it and if so, in what exact way.
Nevertheless, and again, all this upstiring is also what they wanted to achieve: to address the big issue of the shortage of donors.
Some say, this tv show would be responsible for the death of two people (even in that BBC article it is stated). But this isn't so! The two people who don't get the kidney will still be on the waiting list, just like if this show wasn't made. On the contrary, they would actually save a life (from the 'winner').
As such, I don't entirly disagree with the show though.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by M73A on 05-29-2007 at 08:36 PM
why would you want to go on a reality show to win organs ¬_¬
my vote is against it
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by kao on 05-29-2007 at 08:42 PM
I'm with Menthix here, it's raising awareness of the need of donors tbh. Why shouldn't she get to decide who gets her organs. ;p
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by M73A on 05-29-2007 at 08:44 PM
quote:i swear a text vote decides? edit. oh wait, she gets the final call.. sorry.
Originally posted by kao
Why shouldn't she get to decide who gets her organs. ;p
cause i read this in the bbc article:
quote:
Originally posted by bbc
"It can't be possible that, in the Netherlands, people vote about who's getting a kidney," he told the BBC.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by CookieRevised on 05-29-2007 at 08:46 PM
quote:because it gives you far, way far, more chance to get it and live.
Originally posted by M73A
why would you want to go on a reality show to win organs ¬_¬
If your life depends on it, would you rather wait for 10 years (!!!) to recieve an organ (and quite possebly die in the waiting process) or would you take a 33% chance into recieving the organ. And if you 'lost' you would still be on the waiting list as if nothing happened at all.
Except for religion believes (some religions prohibit giving and getting donors, even giving or getting blood), I think the choice is quickly made.
But it is of course your own choice and right to be against it and not to participate (or even watch). I perfectly understand if people have something against the whole 'show' aspect though. It is indeed something weird...
On the other hand who are we to prohibit the show from happening and thus to decide that those three people wouldn't have a chance of getting their matching donor? If all four people (the donor and the three candidates) agreed with it, then why not?
It is a good opportunity to get peoples' attention about the shortness of donors. See, even in the UK (and quite possibly other countries) they are talking about it now and it gets widely media-attention. This wouldn't have happened otherwise, very unfortunatly (as people need sensational things to get talking about something these days).
As last thing, something about the show itself. I don't know if it will be a "big game show" with flashing music, lights, etc, or if it will be a rather informative kind of talk-show. I too would rather see a decently made informative talk-show kind of thing than a "big flashy gaming show - American style (no offense)". And I dunno if it is already known what it will be, but I think this should also be considered, because it seems that many people think this would be a "flashy gaming show" and compare it to that. The thing is, we don't know, it could be that, but on the other hand it could also be a very decent tv program (which I believe it will be)....
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by prashker on 05-29-2007 at 08:48 PM
it's just the idea as a whole, sure it's good you have a 33% chance of getting an organ. but, just doing it on tv is just a liiiiiitle weird 
.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by M73A on 05-29-2007 at 08:53 PM
dont get me wrong cookie, you make really good points, i'd go on the show if i needed a donor!
its good that it will bring organ donation into the public eye but it is kind o.t.t. on an ethical/moral level. turning peoples suffering/ilness into something to get ratings and make money, im against that, not against people getting organs.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 05-29-2007 at 09:50 PM
quote:BNN broadcasts on a public TV station, they are not a commercial network. Although these days public channels need a minimum amount of viewers and money to survive too, but there is still a clear difference to when a commercial station like Talpa for example (the Dutchies will know what i mean) would make a show like this. I'm pretty sure i would have responded a lot different when Talpa made this show
Originally posted by M73A
turning peoples suffering/ilness into something to get ratings and make money
.And like Cookie said... BNN's main reason for this show is to raise awareness for the shortage of organ donors because Bart de Graaf, the founder of BNN died at an age of 35 because of complications related to his kidney failure. A good donor kidney could have helped him.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Discrate on 05-29-2007 at 09:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by toddy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
surely one of the most sickening tv shows ever made
Thats not right. A show like that should never be on air.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Voldemort on 05-29-2007 at 10:05 PM
quote:Honestly.... did you even read the article?
Originally posted by Discrate
Thats not right. A show like that should never be on air.
god.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by vaccination on 05-29-2007 at 10:30 PM
Heh, good for awareness raising etc, albeit a little weird
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by joey on 05-30-2007 at 01:32 AM
think of it this way, they have a better chance winning an organ on that, than they do in a hospital dont they? [/not promoting it =p] it is a bit sick though.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by dotNorma on 05-30-2007 at 02:46 AM
If I needed a kidney transplant I would totally not join a reality tv show in order to receive it.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 05-30-2007 at 07:29 AM
I think the term "reality tv" is misplaced for this. When people say reality tv i think of series like Big Brother, which is entirely different from a show that consist of just one single 90minute episode and where people aren't put together in an house with cameras filming whatever they do.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Pyroteq on 05-30-2007 at 08:11 AM
Sure they're raising awareness and all, but these are three peoples lives ultimately being influenced by advice from text messages of a tv audience.
Transplants and donations should be left in the hospitals, theres no need for this at all.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by andrewdodd13 on 05-30-2007 at 10:18 AM
Erm... "terminally ill woman"... shouldn't she have two kidneys? 
* andrewdodd13 didn't read the article cause he's already heard about it, and doesn't care
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by vaccination on 05-30-2007 at 11:20 AM
Yeah bit she can only give one away else she'll like, ya'know, die.
Unless they're not planning to give them the kidney till after she dies..??
In that case then their I don't see why their can't be two up for grabs
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Nagamasa on 05-30-2007 at 11:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam
tv is just a liiiiiitle weird
I find that a little bit weird too...and actual life-and-death matter shouldn't be dealt with with millions(?) of viewers on TV IMO...
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by ayjay on 05-30-2007 at 04:04 PM
there's no way that turning a life-or-death situation which thousands of families are stuck going through into a televised "competition" is the best way to increase awareness of the donor shortage, and i really doubt that that was their motive for making the program. i just think it's a bit sick personally
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 05-30-2007 at 04:14 PM
I find people having to wait years on a list for donor organs because healthy people are to lazy to fill in a form sick.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by ayjay on 05-30-2007 at 04:21 PM
true, but as i said - there are plenty better ways to increase awareness. people will always be too selfish/lazy to sign up to be a donor - this program won't change that.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by CookieRevised on 05-30-2007 at 05:28 PM
quote:Believe me, it IS their only motive!
Originally posted by ayjay
(...) to increase awareness of the donor shortage and i really doubt that that was their motive for making the program.
RE: RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Discrate on 05-31-2007 at 09:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
quote:Honestly.... did you even read the article?
Originally posted by Discrate
Thats not right. A show like that should never be on air.
god.
Yes?
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by saralk on 05-31-2007 at 11:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ayjay
there are plenty better ways to increase awareness
Evidently there isn't. This show has sparked up dialogue about organ donation which wouldn't have happened otherwise.
Organ donation is one of those topics that very rarely gets much thought from the public, and I cannot think of anything in recent history that has sparked so much prolonged debate about organ donation.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Pyroteq on 05-31-2007 at 12:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Believe me, it IS their only motive!
Originally posted by ayjay
(...) to increase awareness of the donor shortage and i really doubt that that was their motive for making the program.
What about profit?
The creators of big brother dont really strike me as the charitable type.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by ayjay on 05-31-2007 at 02:24 PM
quote:Just because nothing else HAS been done, doesn't mean that nothing else CAN be done. All it needs is more coverage in the media - making people aware of the situation. I guarantee that at the minute, it's just not something that people think of as a big problem. All it needs is some consciousness raising - not some show broadcasting such an emotional problem for a lot of people in a way that makes it seems like some petty, worthless thing that can just be won on TV.
Originally posted by saralk
Evidently there isn't. This show has sparked up dialogue about organ donation which wouldn't have happened otherwise.
I don't know. I guess it's not so bad if it's gonna be full of interviews with the contestants and the donor about what it's like and stuff (which it obviously will be). I just think it's messing around with people's emotions for entertainment. Regardless of what people say - it IS for entertainment - otherwise it wouldn't be being shown on TV and no one would be watching it.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by CookieRevised on 05-31-2007 at 02:45 PM
Please do not compare it with Big Brother. It is absolutely nothing like that. It is constantly portrait like a massive flashy game show made by "the creator of Big Brother", but that is a totally wrong conception.
And it isn't because Endemol also created the concept of Big Brother that this is the only thing they think of. They have made hundreds and hundreds of TV formats, ranging from reality shows, to documentaries, to benefits, to songcontests, games, talk shows, etc... It is a production company like any other production company in the world which makes all kinds of stuff.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by saralk on 05-31-2007 at 07:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ayjay
Regardless of what people say - it IS for entertainment - otherwise it wouldn't be being shown on TV and no one would be watching it.
BNN is a public service broadcasting company, and so doesn't always have to put things on TV for entertainment.
The BBC puts a lot of stuff that makes no money, because they are a public service company. They put a lot of educational programs on and things, because it is in the interest of the public.
Perfect example: If it wasn't for the BBC, the paralympics wouldn't have been broadcast on TV since the viewing figures would have made it a financial loss for commercial TV channels.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 05-31-2007 at 11:43 PM
quote:Finally a non-Dutchie understands the nature of this program and public TV channels in general.
Originally posted by saralk
BNN is a public service broadcasting company, and so doesn't always have to put things on TV for entertainment.
quote:If so you could label the news on TV as "messing around with people's emotions for entertainment" too. Obviously not all TV programs are made for entertainment, especially on public channels.
Originally posted by ayjay
Regardless of what people say - it IS for entertainment - otherwise it wouldn't be being shown on TV and no one would be watching it.
quote:Exactly, the one and only link between this show and Big Brother is the same production company... other than that it is a totally different concept, different channel/network, different goals, different people, different type (onetime program instead of a multi-season series). Reality TV as genre for this is highly mislabeled too.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Please do not compare it with Big Brother. It is absolutely nothing like that. And it isn't because Endemol also created the concept of Big Brother that this is the only thing they think of.
I'll be watching tomorrow (if i have the time) out of curiosity. Hope somebody will upload it with subs for the curious people outside the Netherlands, so you can see if its really that bad as some seem to think.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Ezra on 06-01-2007 at 09:35 PM
Just as I thought, all fake...
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Voldemort on 06-01-2007 at 10:03 PM
quote:?
Originally posted by Ezra
Just as I thought, all fake...
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Ezra on 06-01-2007 at 10:39 PM
The show was fake, it was just a publicity stunt to raise the awareness of organ donors.
EDIT: It's all over the news, just Google for it.
RE: how much further can reality TV go ? by Menthix on 06-01-2007 at 11:24 PM
Very well done though.
The show did indeed turn out to be fake, but they only announced that on the very end of the show just when the woman was about to announce the person who would get her kidney. So they did do the entire show, except for the last 5 minutes or so.
The 3 contestants were real, they were indeed people on a donor kidney waiting list... interviews with them and their family were all real. However, the "terminal sick" woman (Lisa) was an actress, and she didn't gave away any of her organs, neither she was sick. Obviously the contestants knew about it.
I only tuned in the last half of the show, but i must say the whole thing was geniusly done. And more importantly, they got their message out extremely well... almost the entire world media has been debating about the show, people are talking about donoring, it even stirred up things in the politics.