MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default - Printable Version
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MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by ahmetgns on 06-01-2007 at 12:07 PM
quote:I think h3LLf1r3 is not the only one who encountered this problem, that is, people are generally not aware of Messenger Plus! is logging their conversations by default. And the number of Messenger users who don't bother to read Messenger Plus! configuration wizard is not small. I know people who installed Messenger Plus! in order only to read their friends conversations, so Plus!'s this feature, or not this feature but enabling it by default for new users is something wrong which may make people hate Messenger Plus! So my suggestion is either disabling it fo new users by default, and if they want to enable it, let them do from Configuration Wizard when it is launched when user first signed-in or from Preferences. My second suggestion is, removing that Chat Logging item from Configuration Wizard and make a system like WLM does for new users.
Originally posted by h3LLf1r3 in this thread
Hello, I recently got into some trouble because of logs taken by Messenger Plus. I had absolutely no idea that it was taking logs, since I had never turned that on and I didn't think it would be on by default.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by vaccination on 06-01-2007 at 12:29 PM
First rule of installing a new program: go through all the options.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by Menthix on 06-01-2007 at 12:31 PM
Its also already asked in the configuration wizard, which shows up every first time a user signs in on a Plus! enabled Messenger.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by High Speed Chaser on 06-01-2007 at 12:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:I think h3LLf1r3 is not the only one who encountered this problem, that is, people are generally not aware of Messenger Plus! is logging their conversations by default.
Originally posted by h3LLf1r3 in this thread
Hello, I recently got into some trouble because of logs taken by Messenger Plus. I had absolutely no idea that it was taking logs, since I had never turned that on and I didn't think it would be on by default.
I think you should be aware of what your doing. Especially when installing a new program. When you update the program you get used the features and you know what your doing.
quote:
Originally posted by ahmetgnsAnd the number of Messenger users who don't bother to read Messenger Plus! configuration wizard is not small.
People should read it. In fact sometimes I take extra time to read the configuration wizard. In fact maybe you should tell them to read it.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by joey on 06-01-2007 at 12:48 PM
its the users fault so you cant blame MP for what happened. like HSC said, READ what it says, check things twice, mistakes are always avoidable.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by CookieRevised on 06-01-2007 at 01:16 PM
quote:You have access to Patchou's statistics?
Originally posted by ahmetgns
And the number of Messenger users who don't bother to read Messenger Plus! configuration wizard is not small.
quote:Hating Plus! for logging a conversation is absolutely stupid. It only takes one click to turn chat logging off. This is not like some deep registry setting or completely hidden automatic feature which is impossible to change.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
enabling it by default for new users is something wrong which may make people hate Messenger Plus!
quote:Contradiction again. First you say let them change it in the Config Wizard, next you say remove it from the Config Wizard.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
So my suggestion is either disabling it fo new users by default, and if they want to enable it, let them do from Configuration Wizard when it is launched when user first signed-in or from Preferences. My second suggestion is, removing that Chat Logging item from Configuration Wizard and make a system like WLM does for new users.
And in regards to removing it from the Config Wizard: Why???? This is the *number*th suggestion you make to actually remove a userfriendly feature from Plus! which make it easy for people do understand how to use Plus!, just because you or one of your friends don't bother to read what they do.
It is not because you or some of your friends don't bother to read something when they install a program, that such a thing is useless and should be removed all together. That completely doesn't make any sense.
There are already problems enough because people don't bother to read something. Encouraging such behaviour will only make things worse. People should learn to read stuff when they install something or when they start using something. The others who replied here are very correct regarding this.
Also, I dunno what you mean by "making a system like WLM does for new users" as WLM doesn't have any 'system for new users'...
Stick to your original suggestion: disable chat logging by default, which is the only sensible thing to do here (and the only thing which I agree upon). That should be all, not removing anything, not changing other options, not adding 'systems like WLM', nothing more... Anything else you've suggested in this regards doesn't make any sense.
---------
And when talking about numbers: the people who come here and complain or didn't know that Plus! logs chats by default and don't know how to change it, is very extremely small, suggesting that this actually isn't a big problem.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by Patchou on 06-02-2007 at 02:40 AM
A lot of peopel actually install Plus! for the chat logging option and the configuration wizard was made clean and simple exactly so that most people would check it out.
Note that to protect people's privacy when using a public computer, the latest versions of Messenger Plus! do not enable chat logging by default is the current account is a Guest account.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by ahmetgns on 06-02-2007 at 10:49 AM
Well, I must clarify something here again.
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
A lot of peopel actually install Plus! for the chat logging option
quote:If people don't read Config Wizard or explore MsgPlus! preferences, should Plus! punish them by logging their chats at the background like a spyware. No, MsgPlus! can't and mustn't be such a program. Quote: "Messenger Plus! is freeware. Freeware is neither spyware nor shareware just freeware."
Originally posted by ahmetgns
I know people who installed Messenger Plus! in order only to read their friends conversations, so Plus!'s this feature, or not this feature but enabling it by default for new users is something wrong which may make people hate Messenger Plus!
OK, lets keep Chat Logging option in Configuration Wizard, but lets make it a two-optioned item. I mean such an item in Config Wizard;
Chat Logging-
Messenger Plus! can keep your chat logs better than original WLM.
o Yes, save my chat logs o No, don't save my chat logs.
And thus, if user doesn't read Config Wizard or someone disabled it from registry on a computer to pop-up when first sign-in, then a second window may pop-up for only ask for this Chat Logging when closing a chat window like WLM does. Then users have to opt for an item in that small window, either Save or Don't save. Because there won't be an option to close that window unless they opt for one, I mean no X on window and OK button is disabled until user opts for one.
Also if you find this way of Chat Logging of MsgPlus! useful, I claim that there is something wrong again here and I consider it as a bug. What is that? you find it please.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by CookieRevised on 06-02-2007 at 01:28 PM
quote:Please do not compare Plus! with spyware like that!!!!! There is nothing abnormal about the current situation. Nothing is hidden in the background or obscured or difficult at all. The only thing people need to do is READ what pops up on their screen, they even don't need to click anything first.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
If people don't read Config Wizard or explore MsgPlus! preferences, should Plus! punish them by logging their chats at the background like a spyware.
As Patchou said the Config Wizard is very clear and simple in this. And even the Preferences are easy understandable.
quote:No, no and no.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
OK, lets keep Chat Logging option in Configuration Wizard, but lets make it a two-optioned item. I mean such an item in Config Wizard;
Chat Logging-
Messenger Plus! can keep your chat logs better than original WLM.
o Yes, save my chat logs o No, don't save my chat logs.
And thus, if user doesn't read Config Wizard or someone disabled it from registry on a computer to pop-up when first sign-in, then a second window may pop-up for only ask for this Chat Logging when closing a chat window like WLM does. Then users have to opt for an item in that small window, either Save or Don't save. Because there won't be an option to close that window unless they opt for one, I mean no X on window and OK button is disabled until user opts for one.
The option is already extremely clear and simple. Why must everything always change and be made far more complicated? There is absolutely nothing wrong with how the option is presented, neither in the Config Wizard, neither in the preferences.
What you suggest will make things a 1000 times more annoying, complicated and confusing to the user... not user-friendly in any way...
Again, if something should change it is only 1 registry setting (which sets the default state for chat logging; and which I also can agree upon, but not because of the same reasons as you), absolutely nothing more. If Patchou isn't going to change that, he certainly isn't going to mess up and mangle up the current user-friendly interface and method.
and:
quote:anyways...
Originally posted by Patchou
Messenger Plus! does not enable chat logging by default if the current account is a Guest account.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by Voldemort on 06-02-2007 at 02:06 PM
This feature has been around since what plus version? No one has ever complained about this... If people read the wizard this wouldn't happen 
People are not being punished by MsgPlus! nor Msg Plus! is acting like some crap spyware. people are victims of their own lazyness or ignorance...
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by ahmetgns on 06-02-2007 at 10:12 PM
I wanted to call your attention again to some things here.
It is not something directly related to reading Configuration Wizard because administrator of a computer can disable it to pop-up for new users from registry, can't he? So Messenger Plus! will start logging some people's conversations who signed in that computer without their will. (Remember something: "Privacy is the first one: no feature will ever be added that could compromise the privacy or the security of your contacts (like block detection schemes)." and we can add here 'security of users' also.) Also if they don't know Plus! and can't recognize its icons in some places, that is the worst thing.
To friends who said "People should be aware of what they're doing, or what they're installed": Firstly there are people who download messenger plus! when they learned Messenger Plus! is required to color nicknames for instance so they are not interested in other features. For example, if you have to install a program to succeed something, it may be your homework or whatever, do you bother to explore every option of that program? So same here, if people installed Messenger Plus! for some other reasons like colorful nicks, why does Messenger Plus! want to log their chats? Secondly, in fact it is not directly related to installing a program because some other people may have installed it previously, so other users may not even know Messenger Plus! is installed on that computer.
And some other issue about chat logging of Plus!: OK, it asks for it in the Configuration Wizard, but in fact it starts to log them, doesn't it? So why the hell does it ask for it then? We call such behaviour as faitaccompli, right? Also remember that, people on messenger may generally want to greet newcomers to Online at the coming time, and also remember Offline Messages which may come when you sign in firstly on a computer which MsgPlus! is installed. So if such messages are saved, even if you uncheck option on Config. Wizard, they remain in My Chat Logs folder. But because people think they unchecked the option of Logging, they won't bother to go to My Chat Logs folder to delete such log files.
In fact disabling it for the start wouldn't be a perfect solution either. Because in this case, there would be unsaved greeting messages for instance in the log files.
So, Messenger Plus! too should use the system which WLM uses for chat logging. I love WLM due to this system it uses. And my ideas in my previous post didn't change for me, I still support them. .......these are my ideas, and I think they are worth of being considered again. Thanks for reading.
RE: RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by CookieRevised on 06-03-2007 at 12:22 AM
quote:absolutely yes! And that should be normal behaviour of everybody, it should be second nature to do so.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
For example, if you have to install a program to succeed something, it may be your homework or whatever, do you bother to explore every option of that program?
Of course not everybody will explore every small piece and detail of the program, but the chat logging is extremely clear to find and to understand. It isn't an advanced and obscured feature which many people wont understand or wont find. It is very clear what 'chat logging' means and it is extremely clearly noted in the Config Wizard, which is the _least_ what new people should read....
quote:Another second nature should be to first check stuff before you're going to use a computer of someone else. In fact, Plus!'s logging will be the least of your worries if you're going to use a PC of someone else, believe me.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Secondly, in fact it is not directly related to installing a program because some other people may have installed it previously, so other users may not even know Messenger Plus! is installed on that computer.
And if both you and the owner of the PC are a bit smart you create a new Windows account without admin priveledges, a guest account. And if you use that Plus! will not log chats by default already.
I would never let someone use my PC on my own admin account, that's almost plain stupid and asking for trouble.
quote:If you read around a bit you'll notice that extremely many people hate such a system with popups and "don't show me this message again"-stuff. And most people immediatly tick the option to not show those popups.
So, Messenger Plus! too should use the system which WLM uses for chat logging. I love WLM due to this system it uses.
Again, nothing needs to be changed in the current system. Your suggested 'systems' will make it many times more complicated than it needs to be. The only thing which maybe could be changed is the default state, absolutely nothing more.
RE: MsgPlus! shouldn't enable chat logging for new users by default by Predator04 on 06-03-2007 at 09:22 AM
so what ur really saying is.. disable everything in msgplus i mean everything. y? well becuase someone might not know you can play sounds and such....