Post your "click grid" for the contest - Printable Version
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+----- Thread: Post your "click grid" for the contest (/showthread.php?tid=75953)
Post your "click grid" for the contest by Nathan on 07-08-2007 at 10:09 AM
Well here goes,
just save it as a picture format, upload it or add it as an attachment.
You can also add the amount of clicks you did
if adding it as an attachment use this to show your image in your post:
code:
[img]["attachment"][/img]
(Without the quotes)
579 clicks
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Menthix on 07-08-2007 at 10:14 AM
![[Image: menthix_heatmap.png]](http://random.menthix.net/menthix_heatmap.png)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Ezra on 07-08-2007 at 11:32 AM
Total count of clicks: 2393
![[Image: myscreenshot03zb9.png]](http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9180/myscreenshot03zb9.png)
Legend: 1st Week 2nd Week 3de Week 4th Week
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by andrey on 07-08-2007 at 11:47 AM
I wonder if this is how a typical cheater's heat map looked like..
Well I did some 500 clicks myself at the beginning but then my fingers hurt 
I was expecting to get banned or something and I lost interest during the third week.
Well, of course I was never going to win anything with cheating, I did it just for the fun of it and to see if I can do a better job than the diagonal/horizontal lines guys in the weekly heat maps 
but I guess I did waaay too many clicks 
![[Image: Image4.gif?t=1183893570]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/--AndreY--/Image4.gif?t=1183893570)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by toddy on 07-08-2007 at 12:38 PM
clicks 1423
t-shirt can cleary be seen from when patchou gave that clue
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Kenji on 07-08-2007 at 02:09 PM
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by prashker on 07-08-2007 at 03:19 PM
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by *Saint* on 07-09-2007 at 01:22 AM
![[Image: saint299msnma6.jpg]](http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4946/saint299msnma6.jpg)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Stigmata on 07-09-2007 at 01:31 AM
For all those who don't know whats going on:
to request your grid look over here:
http://www.msgpluslive.net/software/contest/requestgrid.php
to find out more look here:
http://www.msgpluslive.net/news/2007/07/08/messen...-around-the-world/
RE: RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Rolando on 07-09-2007 at 01:51 AM
Lots of clicks.. WAY more than I thought.
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Volv on 07-09-2007 at 03:09 AM
So many clicks and not a single prize 
![[Image: mpclicks.jpg]](http://random.volv.net/mpclicks.jpg)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Chris4 on 07-09-2007 at 03:43 AM
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by felipEx on 07-09-2007 at 04:01 AM
![[Image: hahahah.PNG]](http://felipex.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/hahahah.PNG)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by ShawnZ on 07-09-2007 at 04:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by felipEx
cheater
RE: RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by felipEx on 07-09-2007 at 04:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnZ
cheater
yes it's obvious !
i was testing but not serious
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by NanaFreak on 07-09-2007 at 05:17 AM
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Felu on 07-09-2007 at 12:08 PM
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Eddie on 07-10-2007 at 02:41 AM
Kinda shameful...
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Nefzen on 07-10-2007 at 05:23 PM
heh, everyone has a sudden concentration where the tips are 
mmm I'm not gonna post mine. 
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Jimbo on 07-10-2007 at 07:35 PM
Got bored after the first 2 weeks
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Matti on 07-11-2007 at 07:04 AM
Total count of clicks: 3157
Legend: 1st Week 2nd Week 3de Week 4th Week
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Phillip on 07-11-2007 at 12:43 PM
quote:Please do. We want to see what a winners looks like
Originally posted by Nefzen
heh, everyone has a sudden concentration where the tips are
mmm I'm not gonna post mine.
. Mine says I clicked 0 times so I'm not gonna even bother
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by markee on 07-11-2007 at 02:48 PM
I wish I could remember the email address I used for my cheating (which still failed). I know I did over 3,000 clicks not including the ones to make the smiling face....
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Supersonicdarky on 07-11-2007 at 03:25 PM
meh
![[Image: MessengerPlusLive6thAnniversaryCont.png]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/supersonicdarky/MessengerPlusLive6thAnniversaryCont.png)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by CookieRevised on 07-12-2007 at 12:20 AM
quote:not really... look at Volv's. It's the same kind of random spreaded clicks (only less clicks)....
Originally posted by andrey
quote:The same as any other grid.
Originally posted by Phillip
We want to see what a winners looks like
my clickies:
edit: +30000
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Chrono on 07-12-2007 at 12:27 AM
lol that's a hell of a lot of clicking, cookie
how many clicks? 
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Nathan on 07-12-2007 at 12:30 AM
Wow.
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by joey on 07-12-2007 at 08:33 AM
quote:you spent WAAAAY too much time on that game!
Originally posted by Chrono
lol that's a hell of a lot of clicking, cookie
how many clicks?
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Matti on 07-12-2007 at 08:59 AM
OMG You can see the T-shirt in it! And during the last week he was clicking the candles!
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by andrey on 07-12-2007 at 01:40 PM
quote:lol
Originally posted by ICD
quote:you spent WAAAAY too much time on that game!
Originally posted by Chrono
lol that's a hell of a lot of clicking, cookie
how many clicks?
I don't think he spent that much time on it quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
Note for people like Cookie who would have more than 20,000 clicks on the grid (so basically, to all the cheaters around here
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by John Anderton on 07-12-2007 at 05:13 PM
![[Image: JA%20ClickMap.PNG]](http://jalife.net/up/files/JA%20ClickMap.PNG)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by CookieRevised on 07-12-2007 at 10:59 PM
quote:A hell of a lot of the clicks are done manually. And with the ones done automatically, I was still at the computer 'monitoring'. I indeed spend an extreme lot of time clicking (manually). 4 hours in a row (with small breaks now and then to eat and drink
Originally posted by andrey
quote:lol
Originally posted by ICD
quote:you spent WAAAAY too much time on that game!
Originally posted by Chrono
lol that's a hell of a lot of clicking, cookie
how many clicks?quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
Note for people like Cookie who would have more than 20,000 clicks on the grid (so basically, to all the cheaters around here
) wasn't an exception, while watching tv etc... (first and second week were done completely manual for example, third and fourth have auto-clicks (but also manual clicks though))
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by riahc4 on 07-12-2007 at 11:43 PM
Obviously cookie's is cheated....
I have to ask since the contest is over; How/what method did you use to cheat?
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by andrey on 07-13-2007 at 12:54 AM
In a nutshell, the program (which I wrote in Delphi) did:
1. load a copy of the gamepic[1].bmp into memory
2. set a variable 'clicked' to false
3. start a timer, which does:
if 'clicked' is false:
1. set the cursor to a random location on the grid
2. compare the RBG-value of that pixel on the desktop to the RGB-value of the pixel in the loaded gamepic.bmp
3. if it matches: do the mouse click, set 'clicked' to true (and log the coordinates to a file)
if 'clicked' is true:
1. set the cursor to where the 'try again' button should be
2. compare the RGB-value of that pixel on the desktop to the RGB-value of the 'try again' button on that pixel
3. if it matches: do the mouse click, set 'clicked' to false
That was the best way I could think of without sniffing the network traffic, but I guess there are much better ways
The disadvantage was that the mouse was occupied all the time, so I had it reset to it's old position after doing the click, but it was still annoying..
But the advantage was that because I compared the colors, I could select areas that shouldn't be clicked (those areas that were 'hotter' than others in the weekly heatmaps) by marking them on the gamepic[1].bmp.
And yeah, I had to monitor it as well, as it didn't auto-fill the winners form (never got the chance to fill it in anyway )
I really would like to know how cookie did his cheating 
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by markee on 07-13-2007 at 05:24 AM
Well I cheated by using FireFox and GreaseMonkey. I had to change something to make it think that Plus! was accessing the site before going into entrance.php and not FF and then my greasemonkey script just replaced a cookie, and select a random position on the grid, it then checked to see if it had already been chosen and would select a new one until it hadnt been chosen. After it found one then it would send the coordinates and check if the page had the "try again" box (or something like that) and if it did then it would wait a random amount of time (between 1.5 and 3 second i think) before it would try again.
It had lots of random stuff to make it harder for Patchou to detect
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by CookieRevised on 07-13-2007 at 08:25 AM
quote:How is that "obvious"? In fact, it isn't "obvious" at all though...
Originally posted by riahc4
Obviously cookie's is cheated....
If you meant the amount of clicks, that is perfectly doable by spending only a few hours a day clicking. If you mean the spreading of the clicks, you can not see if it is done in a human way or automatic way just by that, read on...
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
I have to ask since the contest is over; How/what method did you use to cheat?
Since we didn't know how Patchou would check against cheaters, you had to take some stuff into account (in the end, we all made it way to complicated anyways it seems
)...- He could've monitored the time between clicks. And/or comparing it with the time the map was displayed again. In that way you could easly detect auto-cheators which didn't take in account pauses between clicks or which (like it was suggested in one of the threads) 20 seconds between clicks or whatever.
- He could've monitored the some APIs like Sendmessage, etc which couldv'e been used to do the clicking. However, if the old input APIs were used, you couldn't detect the difference between a manual click and a auto-click (so that is what I used to 'click').
- He could've monitored the mouse movent. Many cheat-tools don't bother to move the mouse. So if he detected the position of the mouse before the click (or even a few positions before that), he could easly detected auto-clicks done by APIs (even with the old input API). So my tool moved the mouse to each point instead of jumping to it. The movement was done like a human, sometimes fast, sometimes slow (but always with a somewhat steady speed). The movement was also not straight to the point but diverted a bit (sometimes big sometimes little).
- He could've monitored the time between the 'try again' screen popping up and the click on the 'try again' button. A human would in most circumstances click the button right away (and not like 20 seconds later or something). The same with the play grid popping up again.
This was easly solved by simply subclassing one of the underlying windows and detecting a WM_PAINT. (although he could've montored for subclassing, but I took that gamble
)- He could've monitored the positions clicked on the 'try again' button. In that way, I think many cheaters would have been detected too as they wouldn't bother to treat the button as a potential detection and just clicked on the same spot or something.
All the above (and some more stuff) was 'solved' by my tool (in VB6
).So my tool did (in a small nutshell):
- detect were the game window is (to get its coordinates)
- load the click maps. The different maps were just some big regions too choose from where to click*
- subclass one of the underlying windows.
start the loop:
- click on a spot
- start detecting a change.
- As soon as a change is detected, wait a random of milliseconds and click on a random spot (also with hotspotting build in) on the 'try again' button.
- start detecting a change.
- if a change was not detected within 30 seconds it means the click on the 'try again' button wasn't successfull. But that means the button wasn't there, and that means we clicked on a winning pixel and a nice alarm is shown (at this point I could've programmed it to auto-filled in the form, but I cba, I never thought I would win anything with it anyways, which proofed to be true
).- start the loop again.
Now, before each click, as well as on the map as on the button, the tool always waited a few milliseconds to a few seconds (a human can not click instantly, and sometimes we want to aim at a certain spot, etc).
But it also could wait longer. This depended on a random time between x and y seconds. Which again depended on the time spend clicking so far. The tool also paused from time to time. We can't click 8 hours in a row, we need breaks, to eat, go to the toilet, a sister who called us away, etc... The tool all did that.
All in all the tool extremely closely simulated human clicking behaviour I think. The only difference (and possible give-away) being the number of clicks. However, this too was well within the reach of a human.
Some people said you could see the difference between a human random clicked map and an auto-random clicked map. This isn't so... If a human clicks realy randomly it produces the same randomness as a robot in the end. And the more clicks done, the less you see any difference. Hotspotting will not occur! (I did plenty of tests with this), unless the human did not clicked in a random way (as many did, because they clicked on the objects in the game picture).
When you see the clicks done on a time scale and see where the clicks are, you could see a difference between a human and a simple random click robot. In that case a human will focus more on big regions (big hotspots), while a robot will click randomly all over the place. My tool made sure that the auto-clicking simulated this same 'hotspotting' over time.
In the end, it wasn't possible to see the difference between a click of this tool and a click of my own (I did clicked a lot myself too). And that is also why Patchou asks me if I cheated or not when I won the tshirt**. At that point I didnt used the tool, but since I had no means to proof it (except for the click-logs), it was my word against his analyzer tool which detected the spreading of the clicks, I think it was only fare to give away the tshirt also because I already had a nice prize from the first week.
* these included non-rectangular regions. The tool stayed in a particular region for a while (a random number between x and y clicks) while occasionally (also based upon random chances) clicking in another map. When a lot of clicks were done it switched to another random region. But this was again done in a random way. Sometimes it switched after only (lets say) 10 clicks, sometimes after spending (lets say) 30 minutes of clicking in that map.
** he also said to me the spreading of the clicks on the candle flames looked far more human. However, most of them were also done by the tool in the same fasion as the rest of the grid. Showing that seeing a difference between human clicks and clicks by the tool just by looking at the end result wasn't water-proof. And I am sure that if I hadn't let the tool click so much, he would never have seen anything wrong.
The tool was made after I won something else (by manual clicking on the grid of course) as an expirement to see how he would detect cheaters and to see how close I could make something simulating a human clicking (which was extremely close I think), and because it was a long while since I programmed anything in VB6
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by joey on 07-13-2007 at 09:10 AM
ill say it again, you spent waaaay too much time on that. very clever though, well thought out.
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Menthix on 07-13-2007 at 09:57 AM
You surprised me Cookie, by checking the data communication to/from the contest server you could have easily ruled out a few of those possible checks . Oh well, fun coding i guess .
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by CookieRevised on 07-13-2007 at 10:09 AM
Yes and no...
It is not because you don't detect some data when you monitored the traffic when you played, that it wouldn't have been there in case you did cheat... And you don't know that before you make a program which uses APIs etc to 'cheat'.
And there was a lot of data traffic when you played the game anyways, including stuff which I cba to decypher...
By simply using some methods or not using some methods is way more easier and faster than first analyzing data traffic and hoping nothing else is send in case you do cheat... I also wrote all that to show that Patchou could've used a lot more stuff than what people suggested he used to detect cheaters in those other threads about the game, which suggested some methods to cheat (wow, strange sentence ).
Also, the main goal for me was not to actually cheat!, but to make a program which mimics human behaviour, as I'm interested in AI stuff etc and indeed find it fun to make something like that (also the reason why I also simulated mouse movement instead of just 'jumping' to a coordinate). The game was a perfect opportunity for that.
If it was just for 'winning' I could've made the tool a lot easier in the first place.
quote:How is that an invasion of any privacy??
Originally posted by Nefzen
I think that checking mouse positions would be an invasion of privacy, but meh.
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by Nefzen on 07-13-2007 at 02:37 PM
woa, that's nice deep thought you had there, CookieRevised
I think that checking mouse positions would be an invasion of privacy, but meh.
a friend of mine figured the pack used and simulated clicks, using the contest's cookie, though he was quickly banned a couple of times (different IPs, accounts) when he filled squares
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by madwormer2 on 07-18-2007 at 03:29 PM
Lol, well, here's mine.
And yes, that says "I believe" and yes, I am that sad to do it by hand.
![[Image: clickyfi1.png]](http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1908/clickyfi1.png)
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by joey on 07-18-2007 at 03:36 PM
im guessing you didnt do that little doodle by hand
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by toddy on 07-18-2007 at 03:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by madwormer2
And yes, that says "I believe" and yes, I am that sad to do it by hand.
quote:
Originally posted by ICD
im guessing you didnt do that little doodle by hand
RE: Post your "click grid" for the contest by joey on 07-18-2007 at 03:59 PM
im a noob, thats my excuse. 