woo, there goes freedom. - Printable Version
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woo, there goes freedom. by Voldemort on 09-20-2007 at 12:45 AM
http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070918/NE...09180325/1007/NEWS
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/sep/19/...&feed=networkfront
Land of the free!
Land of the brave!
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 12:59 AM
indeed it sucks, but freedom hasn't excisted for years now. pretty much all countries that came to have freedom of speech, don't.
in the uk now, you have to inform/ask the police, if you want to hold protest with in a half-mile radius of the House of Commons. (most of which get refused)
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by albert on 09-20-2007 at 01:10 AM
Oh my, I had seen it on the news but it didn't look at all like the full version right there. I feel bad for the guy, really.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Steven on 09-20-2007 at 01:25 AM
honestly, the police had the right to do it.
If a policeman told you to stop skateboarding in front of a library, you can drop your board and walk away. If you said no, and kept going on and telling him to get away from you, then he can take your board. If you dont feel like listening, hes can put you in cuffs. If you dont feel like getting cuffs put on you, be ready for them to make you.
If you watched the video, he did whatever he could to not be put in cuffs. In other words, he was definitely resisting arrest. He had the choice to step off the mic, and leave, but one thing can escalate to the other until he gets tasered. How do fights between normal people get started? Over small and stupid shit until it leads to the fight, which in this case, being tasered. Even if you read what the student said, he stated the policemen were just doing their jobs.
Personally, i think its dumb they cut the mic in the first place, as the Senator was very willing to give an answer. However, from the point at which the student simply wouldnt let it go, the wrath of the law took its course, the fact it had to lead to that point is very unfortunate. Its nothing unusual, thats how it works. If you cant live in this world like that, then dont bother living, because thats how the world turns. My friend once punched a cop in the face, because she was an undercover cop purchasing drugs. She called 2 police cars, he was beaten down with nightsticks, and got arrested with bruises on him. Its not very hard to just give up to the law and let it go.
Long story short, this was done at the wrong place at the wrong time. Something like this shouldnt be a big deal at all, if it wasnt for John Kerry having a public forum, which all of a sudden sparks this "Fight for freedom of speech" bullshit
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 01:37 AM
quote:no they didn't. you have to be doing something wrong in the first place before the please can do anything*. since when is asking questions against the law?
Originally posted by Steven
honestly, the police had the right to do it.
as for the skateboarding thing, you're skating on private property. the libary have the right to get the police to move you on (or arrest you if they want)
(*well thats the law in the uk at least, n i'd be shocked if it wans't the same in the usa. unless usa law allows enticement/entrapment)
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Voldemort on 09-20-2007 at 01:46 AM
quote:he didn't do anything wrong. read the first.... amendment, i think it is?
Originally posted by Steven
Long story short, this was done at the wrong place at the wrong time. Something like this shouldnt be a big deal at all, if it wasnt for John Kerry having a public forum, which all of a sudden sparks this "Fight for freedom of speech" bullshit
School is different.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Steven on 09-20-2007 at 02:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by toddy
quote:no they didn't. you have to be doing something wrong in the first place before the please can do anything*. since when is asking questions against the law?
Originally posted by Steven
honestly, the police had the right to do it.
as for the skateboarding thing, you're skating on private property. the libary have the right to get the police to move you on (or arrest you if they want)
(*well thats the law in the uk at least, n i'd be shocked if it wans't the same in the usa. unless usa law allows enticement/entrapment)
if you read what i posted, you wouldve noticed how i said that was the only part i disagreed with. He student started off with a bad attitude, and like being on the radio, they cut you off with the slightest suspicion that something dumb can come out of the microphone. Not that i agree with it, but its the only sure-fire way to avoid a problem like such. Thats being said assuming that the person just listens to the police and moves on, like many of the rest of us.
Thanks for backing up my point on the skateboarding part on how its illegal....
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Joe on 09-20-2007 at 02:47 AM
Please don't judge my nation because.. probably most.. people, especially those with power, tend to get crazy. Not everyone in the USA is the same.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Voldemort on 09-20-2007 at 03:03 AM
yeah, thing is, those officers had only .0000001% of Bush's power and they abused it.
i always thought you were canadian xD
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Rolando on 09-20-2007 at 03:12 AM
Heard about it in school.. I want one of those stunning things 
Poor guy though, but he was acting childish 
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by prashker on 09-20-2007 at 03:13 AM
For what?
Arresting me for what?
I'm not allowed standing up for myself?
I thought this was America?
Huh, isn't this America?
I'm sorry I thought this was America.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Voldemort on 09-20-2007 at 03:23 AM
It isn't america, its "United States of America". America includes you and me, sonicsam, so no 
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Menthix on 09-20-2007 at 06:26 AM
What.. The.. Fuck..
I'm not even starting about the freedom of speech thing... the vid is cut multiple times, i don't know how long he was behind the mic, but i could understand he would be asked to leave if Kerry wanted that (but if the police acted on its own, that would be plain wrong). But WTF is wrong with those cops!? There are 6 of them and they still use a taser 
. They could have just cuffed the guy and walk him out, it's a fucking student and doesn't look that strong, not a criminal.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by vaccination on 09-20-2007 at 07:00 AM
Least he put up a good fight 
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Discrate on 09-20-2007 at 02:51 PM
If the police ask you to do something, you do it or you will forced to do it. Even if you are not doing anything wrong. It's simple, it may be wrong but thats what happens.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Stigmata on 09-20-2007 at 02:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by toddy
quote:no they didn't. you have to be doing something wrong in the first place before the please can do anything*. since when is asking questions against the law?
Originally posted by Steven
honestly, the police had the right to do it.
His allotted time for the question was up, but he refused to step down and created a scene. When he was being escorted from the podium, he resisted and caused a struggle.
He was warned multiple times that if he did not co-orperate then he would be tazered. Instead he kept fighting back so they followed through with the threats.
I felt the police didn't do anything wrong at all.
If the guy had been reasonable and co-operative this whole thing could of been avoided. Because of him acting inappropriately he even missed Kerry trying to answer his question.
But I sorta agree with the question. If he had indeed won the election, I'd be pissed off and I would want to do something about it.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 03:13 PM
quote:wrong. the police can't force you to do anything, unless you're breaking the law. yes they may ask you to, but if you're not doing anything wrong, then you can contest it.
Originally posted by Discrate
If the police ask you to do something, you do it or you will forced to do it. Even if you are not doing anything wrong.
feel free to try it, next time a police offericers ask you to do something and you're not doing anything wrong. ask him what law you are breaking, he'll soon shut up or make something up. so as long as you know abit of law, and have proof that you're weren't doing anything wrong. then you'll be fine
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Volv on 09-20-2007 at 03:33 PM
quote:Or how about you just obey the police?
Originally posted by toddy
feel free to try it, next time a police offericers ask you to do something and you're not doing anything wrong. ask him what law you are breaking, he'll soon shut up or make something up. so as long as you know abit of law, and have proof that you're weren't doing anything wrong. then you'll be fine
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 03:37 PM
quote:if you're not doing anything wrong in the first place, why should you ?
Originally posted by Volv
Or how about you just obey the police?
if you where walking down the street, and a random stranger came and told you to do something, you'd laugh and ignore him! (or tell him to F off). why should it be any different for a police officer ?! police officers are heer to enforce the law, not do as they please
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Volv on 09-20-2007 at 03:42 PM
The police enforce law and order.
You don't get into an argument with an officer, you do as they say and then if you believe you're in the right you lodge a complaint to someone or take legal action if it's worth it.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 03:53 PM
quote:indeed, if you want to get no where, then yes you can be a fool and listen to the officer, and the lodge a complaint. to which you'll get a standard letter, saying that the incident will be looked in to...blah blah. then amazing you'll get a follow up letter saying lack of evidence or the officer was right.
Originally posted by Volv
You don't get into an argument with an officer, you do as they say and then if you believe you're in the right you lodge a complaint to someone or take legal action if it's worth it.
however if you want the incident cleared up straight away, you ask what you have done wrong/against the law. and if you'd done nothing wrong, then his next words are more then likely to be "well this time, we're not going to follow it up. however next time you may get arrested....blah blah."
as long as you're not a totally prick about it, then you have right to chellenge what the officers say.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Volv on 09-20-2007 at 03:57 PM
quote:Well ofcourse I agree that you can ask what you've done wrong if they haven't already made it clear to you which is what I imagine they will do from the start...
Originally posted by toddy
however if you want the incident cleared up straight away, you ask what you have done wrong/against the law. and if you'd done nothing wrong, then his next words are more then likely to be "well this time, we're not going to follow it up. however next time you may get arrested....blah blah."
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Adeptus on 09-20-2007 at 04:09 PM
quote:If you know what the law and your rights are, and you are asked by the police for something you are not required to do -- then you can (and should) refuse.
Originally posted by Volv
You don't get into an argument with an officer, you do as they say
An excellent example of this (under the laws of most U.S. states) is police asking to search your car during a routine traffic stop. You are not obligated to consent to a search. If they have a probable cause to believe there is something to find, they won't ask you; they are asking you because they don't. By consenting, you are inviting them to look for something else to charge you with and giving up the defense of unlawful search, should they search and find something. Same applies for police coming to your door without a warrant and wanting "to look around".
This is clearly off topic, but I think it's important to note there are times when you shouldn't blindly cooperate.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Joe on 09-20-2007 at 04:50 PM
quote:nope, I am left to defend my nation...
Originally posted by Voldemort
yeah, thing is, those officers had only .0000001% of Bush's power and they abused it.
i always thought you were canadian xD
quote:Don't forget Central and South America.
Originally posted by Voldemort
It isn't america, its "United States of America". America includes you and me, sonicsam, so no
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Steven on 09-20-2007 at 07:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX
What.. The.. Fuck..
I'm not even starting about the freedom of speech thing... the vid is cut multiple times, i don't know how long he was behind the mic, but i could understand he would be asked to leave if Kerry wanted that (but if the police acted on its own, that would be plain wrong). But WTF is wrong with those cops!? There are 6 of them and they still use a taser (Smilie). They could have just cuffed the guy and walk him out, it's a fucking student and doesn't look that strong, not a criminal.
Okay watch the video, not what CNN aired on TV because it didn't show everything. The reason he was tasered was the fact that the 5 or 6 police officers were not all on him at once, if you see. Also he injured 4 police officers some sources said. But he was clearly resisting arrest and was moving aroung and police couldn't cuff him. Watch Cops(The show) and you will see 100's of situations just like this one. The police made the right move.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by vaccination on 09-20-2007 at 07:58 PM
quote:Injured the police officers, that's bollocks. All he did was flail his arms about.
Originally posted by Steven
Okay watch the video, not what CNN aired on TV because it didn't show everything. The reason he was tasered was the fact that the 5 or 6 police officers were not all on him at once, if you see. Also he injured 4 police officers some sources said. But he was clearly resisting arrest and was moving aroung and police couldn't cuff him. Watch Cops(The show) and you will see 100's of situations just like this one. The police made the right move.
If the police officers are saying they got injured, they're just trying to justify their actions. There is no way any need to taser. If 6 policeman couldn't hold him down and cuff him, they really need some new policemen.
It's ridiculous, the police aren't Gods, stop believing everything they do is right and stop licking their ass.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Menthix on 09-20-2007 at 08:09 PM
I watched 3 versions of it now.
Yes, they guy is being loud and taking his time at the mic. But Kerry actually wanted to answer right before the cops took action. If they didn't interfere at that point nothing much would probably have happened, but instead they drag him away from the mic, not even allowing him to hear what Kerry would have responded. I would have resisted too, except from being loud and asking critical questions he didn't do anything wrong.
Even if thousands of people in the TV show cops get tasered, that doesn't make it right. Fuck, police around here doesn't even have tasers, with a bit of training 2 cops and just human force would have got that guy in cuffs easily. The guy doesn't carry any weapons, he isn't even aggressive against the cops, he's just trying to get away.
And at the end of this all he is charged for "Incitement to riot"
quote:
Originally posted by http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-104.htm
45-8-104. Incitement to riot. (1) A person commits the offense of incitement to riot if he purposely and knowingly commits an act or engages in conduct that urges other persons to riot. Such act or conduct shall not include the mere oral or written advocacy of ideas or expression of belief which advocacy or expression does not urge the commission of an act of immediate violence.
(2) Except as provided in subsection (3), a person convicted of the offense of incitement to riot shall be fined not to exceed $500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months, or both.
(3) A person who commits the offense of incitement to riot while incarcerated at any state adult correctional facility shall be imprisoned for not less than 1 year or more than 5 years.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by Rolando on 09-20-2007 at 08:48 PM
I thought I had replied to this thread
As I said, he was acting very childish, so I think he deserved it. Disobeying the instructions of a police officer is an act against order.. and they can arrest you for that. Yes, the cops overreacted, but his reaction wasn't appropriate...
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by toddy on 09-20-2007 at 08:53 PM
quote:only if you're doing something wrong in the first place. otherwise it falls into entrapment.
Originally posted by q25
Disobeying the instructions of a police officer is an act against orderand they can arrest you for that. Yes, the cops overreacted, but his reaction wasn't appropriate
as for his reaction not been appropriate. he won't have had any reaction, if the police hadn't got invloved/gone over the top.
RE: woo, there goes freedom. by absorbation on 09-20-2007 at 08:56 PM
You may be all anti-American here, which is really easy to do, but you need to break away from being a Daily Mail hypocrite and look at this from a real context. This is clearly the problem of the police officer(s), the government nor the people see it as acceptable (hence why it has been all over the news), this is not the government's fault. This officer just represents the government and you need to open your eyes and see only he is to blame. Now step away from Digg and think before others form your opinion, for that is the best way to think.