Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? - Printable Version
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Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by DDR Midian on 12-10-2007 at 11:34 AM
Is this at all possible? I like to get creative with my display pictures and they always end up at least around 250kb, unfortunately 200kb is the limit. I don't think raising the bar a bit would kill anyones bandwidth so is this something plus could include without breaking the rules? Or maybe even a script?
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by Patchou on 12-10-2007 at 07:10 PM
Let's wait for WLM9 final before we do anything like this 
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by DDR Midian on 12-11-2007 at 12:40 AM
Sounds good to me. The fact it's at least a possibility makes me very happy. I've been pining for animated display pics since they were first introduced and to be limited like this is heartbreaking! 
Thanks for the response!
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by CookieRevised on 12-11-2007 at 07:07 AM
Can't you be creative with 200KB? 200KB is already a hell of a lot for animated GIF files.
The biggest mistake people make with creating animated gif files is constantly adding full frames and not optimizing anything. Also many mistakes are made when adding smaller frames; sometimes there is a pixel somehwere which is forgotten to be cleared and that makes that the frame which is added is much bigger than it needs to be... etc.
GIFs can be optimized a lot, and with specialized programs like 'Gif Construction Set' you can do a lot.
200KB is realy a very very big size to make animated gifs...
And if you request 250KB, then what is the next guy going to request, 300?, 350?, etc.... bandwidth does play a role here....
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by DDR Midian on 12-11-2007 at 02:32 PM
Sure I can be creative with 200KB, I just can't be detailed and creative. I could do simple flashing, banner type gifs easily at that size, but I was really hoping to do more short-story cartoon stuff with character animation.
I optimize all of my gifs, which is the reason I can get them down to 250KB in the first place, unfortunately the best way to optimize a gif is merely to take a bunch of frames out, leaving you with choppy animation. I do all of my work frame-by-frame anyway, so it ensures none of them go on wasted space.
Sure, bandwidth is always going to be an issue with anything like this, but I was hoping it would be something that would stand on the same level as increasing the character limit in messages does, and the way the oversized display pictures add-ons did a couple of years back. I suppose it just boils down to how much people want it, and if they're willing to use the bandwidth on it. Considering the very first gif I tried to use was apparently too big I thought that this would probably end up annoying quite a lot of people and increasing the size a bit would be a popular request.
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by Menthix on 12-11-2007 at 02:40 PM
If Plus! would increase the limit, would this work on all your contacts, or will it be just like StuffPlug's bigger DPs where you need to install the patch on both sides? If you need Plus! installed on both sides i don't think it's worth making this a feature... Contacts without Plus! won't see your DP (or see a different, normal sized, one). Each time a user doesn't have Plus! installed you'll have to explain them to install it 
.
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by CookieRevised on 12-11-2007 at 06:17 PM
quote:fair enough.
Originally posted by DDR Midian
I optimize all of my gifs, which is the reason I can get them down to 250KB in the first place, unfortunately the best way to optimize a gif is merely to take a bunch of frames out, leaving you with choppy animation. I do all of my work frame-by-frame anyway, so it ensures none of them go on wasted space.
Though the best way to omtimize GIFs is actually to reduce color bleeding, aliassing and removing speckles.
I've optimized a massive amount of GIFs before and by altering some stuff (like amount of colors, removing color bleeding, etc) you reduce a very big amount of KBs, and most of the time without any visible loss.
quote:That tool which enabled oversized display pictures was also one of the reasons why MS included failsafes and protection against such abuse;
Originally posted by DDR Midian
Sure, bandwidth is always going to be an issue with anything like this, but I was hoping it would be something that would stand on the same level as increasing the character limit in messages does, and the way the oversized display pictures add-ons did a couple of years back.
What I mean is, if there is going to be something which works around the limit, the chances are high that MS will not be happy with it and will include even stricter protection/limitations.
quote:maybe.
Originally posted by DDR Midian
Considering the very first gif I tried to use was apparently too big I thought that this would probably end up annoying quite a lot of people and increasing the size a bit would be a popular request.
Though All I could say is be realistic. A normal GIF of 96x96 would be around 5KB, a GIF from a real photograph would be around 10KB.... So 200 KB is very big.
DPs are not meant to be used as your local video store, to show full fletches movies.
This is the same story as why people request the 96x96 limit to be increased because in that way they can show their photos better to their contacts. The DP is not meant as a photo gallery and people should learn to use the sendfile feature if they want to send a photograph to their contacts....
eg: on this forum, many people use animated avatars. Which are also GIFs. The image size limit on these forums is even bigger than 96x96, yet almost everyone manages to make nice looking GIFs under the 100KB...
It all boils down to being realistic and using for what it was meant to be used. And optimizing stuff and being creative.
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This said, I perfectly understand where you comming from though. I too would be frustrating if I make an animated GIF and it ends up being too large in filesize. But I still wouldn't want an increase in the limit because of that though. It just means I need to be a bit more creative.
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PS: may we see these cartoons you're making? I'm getting curious now
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by The Alpha Gamer on 12-14-2007 at 08:30 PM
Are you saying you can have animated DPs with Plus! 4.50? O.O
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by Jimbo on 12-14-2007 at 08:36 PM
quote:You can have aniamted dps with WLM 9.0 BETA
Originally posted by The Alpha Gamer
Are you saying you can have animated DPs with Plus! 4.50? O.O
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by CookieRevised on 12-14-2007 at 08:58 PM
quote:Nope...
Originally posted by The Alpha Gamer
Are you saying you can have animated DPs with Plus! 4.50? O.O
IF things go well (note: "IF", it can still be changed/removed) it will be a feature in Windows Live Messenger 9.0, which is currently in beta stage.
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by markee on 12-15-2007 at 05:38 AM
You also have to remember that 200KB @ 56kbps takes a while, ~30sec, and still even over a second at 1.5Mbps. And this is for just one image, not everyones' DPs, just one contacts (assuming an equal upload speed from your contact). Adding more to this is incredably irresponsible IMHO.
Cookie's response about colour bleeding is great (I use that method even on normal pictures for websites to save bandwidth an load time). But I think the mesenger team should actually put some other types of limitations on the pictures when they are stored for use. I think that they should comply with the 96x96 limit of DPs at the moment and possibly have a converter to make the filesize shrink to make it easier for people.
An alternative to your problem is to have your storyboard last over multiple days and lead to a frame like "to be continued...". It's just a possibility.
RE: Remove limit on/raise maximum filesize for animated .gif display pictures? by riahc4 on 12-17-2007 at 02:17 AM
quote:It curious that Patchou says this; Maybe it is possible.
Originally posted by Patchou
Let's wait for WLM9 final before we do anything like this
I personally dont think its possible and it would require something like MDL's method of hooking to Messenger.
And besides it would be a bandwidth kill...