[suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger - Printable Version
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[suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 08:17 PM
You know, people always come here and ask how they can unlock Messenger. We teach to them then new ones come, and I think there will be always people who ask this question because everytime a new guy meets Messenger Plus! and when sees "Lock Messenger" item in Plus! menu, he wants to lock it without thinking how he will unlock it.
So a tip window can be very useful, just like the Messenger Lock Shortcut window, which pops-up when the user firstly presses the key combination which locks Messenger.[Important edit: The window which I suggested in this thread will not popup when user presses the Messenger Lock Shortcut for the first time, but it will popup when user locks Messenger by any way (either with shortcut or Plus! menu item) for the first time.
So I played with that window and made it suitable for such a feature. I know there must be some other things, like to what icon user changes Messenger systray icon, or does Ctrl need to be hold when double clicking on it, but I'm sure you can overcome it.
The time to implement this feature is not too late, whenever this is implemented, people will benefit it for sure.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by warmth on 12-13-2007 at 08:23 PM
I like very much your idea...
btw nice modified screenshot 
!!!
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Chris4 on 12-13-2007 at 08:27 PM
I've always wondered why Messenger Lock is enabled by default. Surely it should be disabled by default, then anyone that uses it can enable it and they will know how to use it? Enabling it by default just creates problems.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Quantum on 12-13-2007 at 08:31 PM
I like your idea, i think it will help out alot 
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by warmth on 12-13-2007 at 08:32 PM
quote:however of it... I think this is a good idea... cause I already know very people that enable options that they don't even know what mean...
Originally posted by Chris4
Enabling it by default just creates problems.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 08:45 PM
Thanks for the support , hey Patchou, hear us, we don't want to reply all the time to this question [j/k] 
.
quote:Maybe you mean "Why the "Messenger Lock Shortcut" (Ctrl+Space) is enabled by default", right? You must have meant this because Messenger Lock item is and (I think) must exist on Plus! menu, otherwise how can a user find a way to lock it if he doesn't want to set a shortcut for it?
Originally posted by Chris4
I've always wondered why Messenger Lock is enabled by default. Surely it should be disabled by default, then anyone that uses it can enable it and they will know how to use it? Enabling it by default just creates problems.
Also the shortcut can be disabled for the first time when Messenger Plus! is installed because in Configruation Wizard it asks to the user if he wants to set such a shortcut for Messenger Lock feature or not in the first place (I know people are too lazy to read it
)My suggestion is not about the shortcut itself, I am interested in the whole lock feature, independent from how the user locked it(with shortcut or from Plus! menu).
Edit: Hmm, too "s" in the word "Messenger" in the screenshot
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-13-2007 at 10:16 PM
And then we would get two popups just for locking messenger? A bit too much if you ask me.
A small tip in the existing alert dialog would be quite sufficient IMO, as it's the sole responsibility of the user if (s)he fails at using this feature -_-
RE: RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 10:32 PM
quote:You may be right for a possible annoyence but those two popups will appear together only when user uses the shortcut to lock messenger, remember there is also a menu item for locking, so in that case only the second one will pop-up.
Originally posted by Apatik
And then we would get two popups just for locking messenger? A bit too much if you ask me.
A small tip in the existing alert dialog would be quite sufficient IMO, as it's the sole responsibility of the user if (s)he fails at using this feature -_-
Also those two windows will be shown only once, there is no real annoyence in fact, right?
Yet, this window I suggested can be attached to the bottom of the first one which is for _shortcut_, in case the user locks his messenger with a shortcut for the first time. But there must always be two different windows, because they are different indeed, I mean the second one may be shown while the first will not.
But think again and try to remember the time when you first locked messenger. It would be useful if I was told how to unlock it afterwards with a window similar to this (eh, I can't remember, more than three years
)
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-13-2007 at 10:33 PM
The point of the lock feature is that other people do not know that messenger is running, especially if you only use a shortcut to unlock it. And also the reason why the option "you need to hold ctrl to unlock" is there. Making such a dialog makes all these options useless.
If your teacher starts clicking on each icon and this popup turns up to tell him the proper shortcut to unlock it, then what is the point of the lock feature (other than setting a password)?
Remember, the lock feature comes from two old features: Boss Protection (which hide the windows, but didn't locked anything) and Messenger Lock (which locked messenger with a password, but didn't hide anything).
The new Lock Messenger feature combined these two. When the user will be presented with such dialog box popping up again, you actually revert back to how it was in Plus!3: simply hiding the window of Messenger, but otherwise plain visible to the teacher, you actually explain it to him, to what he must do to catch the pupil in the act.
quote:By that time I already read the options in the preference panel. Before using any feature the user should read what those features are and how they (roughly) work.... You don't jump into a race car without knowing how to drive, stop, and turn the engine back off either....
Originally posted by ahmetgns
But think again and try to remember the time when you first locked messenger.
As for being enabled by default, yes, in my humble opinion it should be disabled by default (just to prevent people to jump into the race car, before putting on their racing gloves).
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 10:39 PM
quote:I am happy because I didn't mean what you worry about Cookie
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point of the lock feature is that other people do not know that messenger is there, especially if you only use a shortcut to unlock it.
If your teacher starts clicking on each icon and this popup turns up to tell you the proper shortcut to unlock it, then what is the point of the lock feature (other than setting a password)?
Remember the lock feature comes from two old features, Boss Protection (which hide all windows, but didn't locked anything) and Messenger Lock (which locked messenger with a password, but didn't hide anything).
The new Lock Messenger feature combined these two. When the user will be presented with such dialog box popping up again, you actually revert back to how it was in Plus!3: simply hiding the window of Messenger, but otherwise plain visible to the teacher to what he must do to catch the pupil in the act.
quote:I think you remember wrong, simply because I don't know how Messenger can be locked while its all windows are still there. I remember it was hiding the widnows as well as requiring a password to unlock.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
and Messenger Lock (which locked messenger with a password, but didn't hide anything).
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-13-2007 at 10:42 PM
I think I remember correctly, especially since I'm running Plus!3 atm. It doesn't hide Messenger. It is still visible.
It is the Boss Protection which actually hides (read: changes) the icon.
quote:Then explain what you mean, because as far as I can tell that popup will be shown when you click the icon, telling you what shortcut you need to press or what else you must do:
Originally posted by ahmetgns
I am happy because I didn't mean what you worry about Cookie (Smilie)
quote:
Originally posted by ahmetgns
To unlock it, according to your prefs, you need to press blahblah
PS: Actually, it wouldn't help at all I'm afraid! Because those people who come here asking how to unlock, don't even know what to do, let alone they know that they need to click on the (changed) icon in the system tray to start with. It is exactly that what we need to explain again and again.
So how are they going to get this popup if they even don't know they must click the (changed) system stray icon?
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 10:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Remember, the lock feature comes from two old features: Boss Protection (which hide the windows, but didn't locked anything) and Messenger Lock (which locked messenger with a password, but didn't hide anything).
quote:So in Messenger Lock, it still hides the windows but not changes the systray icon, for Boss Protection, it changes the icon as well. So "didn't hide anything" is wrong, that is what I object.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I remember correctly, it didn't hide Messenger. It was still visible.
It was the Boss Protection which actually hide (read: change) the icon.
And also, people doesn't read things before using features, but then they come here and cry "How can I unlock my Messenger?
"Cookie, you misunderstood my point in the first place but I am not surprised because this is not the first!
See my screenshot: It says "You have just locked Messenger for the first time." You know what "just" means, I believe...
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-13-2007 at 10:58 PM
@Cookie : no, he wants to spawn a warning on activation of the feature, not on clicking the disguised icon.
@ahmetgns : AFAIC Messenger Lock used to "hide" the windows, but _not_ the system tray icon, thus defeating any "stealth" usage.
I can't remember either when I first used this feature, as I simply never use it =P
And you got a point about the contactList menuItem, and for that one (and only that one), a "first time popup" could be handy for those people who're like "WoW, Messenger Lock? let's see what happens if I click on that".
I still really dislike the idea of having two consecutive popups, as it's just... weird -_- (and annoying, and un-user-friendly, and ...)
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-13-2007 at 10:59 PM
How are people going to know they need to click the changed icon to get that popup in the first place?
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-13-2007 at 11:00 PM
quote:Hu?!
Originally posted by CookieRevised
How are people going to know they need to click the changed icon to get that popup in the first place?
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-13-2007 at 11:02 PM
quote:His screenshot reads "unlock now". He explained everything for when the user unlocks his messenger. The popup is going to show when the user unlocks Messenger, no?
Originally posted by Apatik
@Cookie : no, he wants to spawn a warning on activation of the feature, not on clicking the disguised icon.
Hence my question: how are people going to get that popup which tells them how to unlock, if they don't know what to do to get that popup in the first place (which would be clicking on the systemtray icon or pressing a shortcut key)?
Its like handing over an evelop to someone with instructions inside on how to open the envelop.......
Unless I'm missing something or didn't read it correctly.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 11:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Apatik
"WoW, Messenger Lock? let's see what happens if I click on that".
excited people.apatik, don't worry that much, you'll see these popups a few times in your life time.
quote:hehe, I put that "Unlock now" button there (in fact I didn't put anything, I only modified strings for "Messenger Lock Shortcut" window) becasuse I believe everyone who locks messenger for the first time were trying the feature, before they need it really, so Unlock Now can unlock it easily for that specific case.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Yes, activating the unlock. His screenshot also reads "unlock now". He explained everything for when the user unlocks his messenger.
and I didn't want to erase that button from there.RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by andrey on 12-13-2007 at 11:14 PM
eh wth? I think everyone is talking at cross purposes here..
Basically, all we need is to add information on how to unlock Messenger to the information window that pops up the first time a user tries to lock Messenger.
At the moment, it just says that this will hide all windows but doesn't give any information on how to unlock it again.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-13-2007 at 11:16 PM
@Cookie : hmmm, true, I didn't notice the "Unlock now" button which is quite out of place IMO.
But I think what ahmetgns meant here was more "Cancel locking, I was just fooling around as the useless user I am", or something similar.
Apart from that button, the information in the popup makes it pretty clear that it's meant to be displayed on entering lock mode. It's how I understand it anyway.
@ahmetgns : Being active on the (official) french support forums, I'm as tired as you of the "locked out of messenger please help meh poor soul" threads, but well, I don't know if such a measure would change anything... Newbz will still be newbz.
And I don't worry for me, but just find me an example of a software prompting two popups consecutively? There's none (ok, maybe a handful), because that's just nonsense 
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-13-2007 at 11:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Apatik
ahmetgns meant here was more "Cancel locking, I was just fooling around as the useless user I am", or something similar.
@ your exact descriptions@andrey, your method is wrong, please read my previous posts carefully for "Why??".
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-13-2007 at 11:28 PM
He's not "wrong", as I actually agree with him. He just omitted your menuItem point
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by andrey on 12-13-2007 at 11:32 PM
quote:Yes, I didn't notice that users apparently don't get a warning message when they first enable the Messenger Lock via the Plus! Menu.
Originally posted by Apatik
He's not "wrong", as I actually agree with him. He just omitted your menuItem point
So what should be done is to add a notice on how to unlock Messenger again to the window that pops up when the user locks Messenger for the first time via the hot-key, and there should be a similar warning message when the user locks Messenger via the Menu item.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-14-2007 at 12:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Yes, I didn't notice that users apparently don't get a warning message when they first enable the Messenger Lock via the Plus! Menu.
So that is what you wanted, ahmetgns? Why didn't you said that?
yes, I agree
(but not with such a 2nd window... it should be 1 popup (when the user presses the shortcut for the first time)
I hate long explainations
... wait... /me looks around.... never mind...
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-14-2007 at 02:34 PM
I'm glad we all know what is being talked here anymore.
Cookie, I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because I believe (d) the forum regulars (who would support this suggestion) will know that(warmth and john-t knew these I think, because they didn't say any wrong thing about this feature, congratulations guys)
But I still can't agree with the idea of only one popup in which "how they can unlock it" being explained (when user presses the shortcut) because if user didn't want to lock messenger really while pressing that hotkey and will "Remove Shortcut", why would that pop-up say to him how he will unlock it like "If you press "Lock Messenger", be advised in advance that you can unlock it with blahblah" 
(I don't prefer two consecutive pop-ups as well but ...)
there is /lock command also, but I don't think newbies can find and use it for their first lock, ermm, still they may.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by andrey on 12-14-2007 at 05:32 PM
quote:Where's the problem with telling them how to unlock Messenger in the same popup? This bit of extra information wouldn't hurt anyone. The user can still remove the shortcut and in any case, he won't see that window again.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
But I still can't agree with the idea of only one popup in which "how they can unlock it" being explained (when user presses the shortcut) because if user didn't want to lock messenger really while pressing that hotkey and will "Remove Shortcut", why would that pop-up say to him how he will unlock it like "If you press "Lock Messenger", be advised in advance that you can unlock it with blahblah" (I don't prefer two consecutive pop-ups as well but ...)
Example:
"The key combination you just pressed, which works from any application, is set to lock and hide all Messenger windows.
Once you have done so, you will have to [insert instructions here] to unhide them again.
If you don't want to lock Messenger, click "Remove Shortcut" below and the global hotkey will be disabled in Messenger Plus!."
What could be done aswell, is to show a tooltip when a user uses the Messenger Lock feature for the first time, telling him what happened and how to unlock and unhide Messenger again.
I guess this would be quite useful, especially since Messenger Plus! changes the system tray icon by default.
And on a side note:
quote:The problem is that you don't say what you mean in a understandable and clear way, which leads to misunderstandings and annoyance.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Cookie, you misunderstood my point in the first place but I am not surprised because this is not the first!
I understood your point only after reading through your posts several times, and you can't expect others to have as much patience or time until they figure out what you want to tell them.
(I'm not trying to start a discussion here, just some general advice, e.g. you should definitely try to use shorter sentences, better grammar.)
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Quantum on 12-14-2007 at 05:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point of the lock feature is that other people do not know that messenger is running, especially if you only use a shortcut to unlock it. And also the reason why the option "you need to hold ctrl to unlock" is there. Making such a dialog makes all these options useless.
If your teacher starts clicking on each icon and this popup turns up to tell him the proper shortcut to unlock it, then what is the point of the lock feature (other than setting a password)?
Remember, the lock feature comes from two old features: Boss Protection (which hide the windows, but didn't locked anything) and Messenger Lock (which locked messenger with a password, but didn't hide anything).
The new Lock Messenger feature combined these two. When the user will be presented with such dialog box popping up again, you actually revert back to how it was in Plus!3: simply hiding the window of Messenger, but otherwise plain visible to the teacher, you actually explain it to him, to what he must do to catch the pupil in the act.
quote:By that time I already read the options in the preference panel. Before using any feature the user should read what those features are and how they (roughly) work.... You don't jump into a race car without knowing how to drive, stop, and turn the engine back off either....
Originally posted by ahmetgns
But think again and try to remember the time when you first locked messenger.
As for being enabled by default, yes, in my humble opinion it should be disabled by default (just to prevent people to jump into the race car, before putting on their racing gloves).
Try telling a newbie that
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by vaccination on 12-14-2007 at 05:48 PM
I like the tooltip idea a lot.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by warmth on 12-14-2007 at 07:09 PM
tool tip idea rocks!!!
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-14-2007 at 07:21 PM
quote:Yeah, it is obviously better than mine.
Originally posted by warmth
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-14-2007 at 08:38 PM
quote:Eermm, what?
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Cookie, I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because I believethe forum regulars (who would support this suggestion) will know that(warmth and john-t knew these I think, because they didn't say any wrong thing about this feature, congratulations guys)
Are you now saying that you didn't meant this dialog to pop up when the Plus! menu item "lock messenger" is choosen?:
quote:
I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because...
----------
PS: I am a forum regular too btw. And i's not because an idea is not supported that you aren't a forum regular. Second, agreeing (or not) to something does not automatically mean you understand what is being said either. Third, if people on the forum ask for more clarification, it is normally given....
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Voldemort on 12-14-2007 at 08:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote
Cookie, I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because I believe (Smilie) the forum regulars (who would support this suggestion) will know that(warmth and john-t knew these I think, because they didn't say any wrong thing about this feature, congratulations guys)
I'm with you, i have to read most of his posts like 3 times to get an idea of what he is talking about....
RE: RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-14-2007 at 10:22 PM
quote:So true -_-
Originally posted by andrey
The problem is that you don't say what you mean in a understandable and clear way, which leads to misunderstandings and annoyance.
I understood your point only after reading through your posts several times, and you can't expect others to have as much patience or time until they figure out what you want to tell them.
(I'm not trying to start a discussion here, just some general advice, e.g. you should definitely try to use shorter sentences, better grammar.)
And this thread is yet another proof of that, it took 3 pages for everybody to understand what was the core of the problem ahmetgns was pointing at...
Anyway, I love the tooltip idea too =)
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by markee on 12-15-2007 at 06:11 AM
Personally I like general thought of ahmetgns in this case (and you guys should flame someone just because they aren't perfect with their english). I might be taking a little poetic license here but it would at least complement his idea.
On the first time the user locks messenger then it will generate the window to warn them what is happening. You could change the window to also include the image that it is going to change to in the system tray and an option to turn off the feature, as well as a pre-ticked "Do not show me this message again".
At least this way it stands out a lot more than the tooltip idea and gives more options and more information.
For someone who has used plus before or is aware of this feature then it is only an extra click or press of enter on the first use.
The window idea also fits in better with how Plus! operates IMHO and would be a better compliment to the rest of the software package. It might need some tweaking in the window design and the features that it offers, but it isn't that impeding to have to press a button or enter once....
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-15-2007 at 02:15 PM
Well, the first question is "Is Patchou going to implement such a feature?" The second question is "Which method will he use if he will do?"
Also, the "Do not show me this message again" option idea was in my mind while suggesting this but unfortunately the Plus! window which I modified didn't have such an option originally but let me remind you in advance that if this option will be added, you must remove "for the first time" message from my original screenshot
You got a point when you said (or meant) that Plus! had never used baloon notifications until this time. So another method for this feature may be a toast window (which would be the worst thing that is suggested ever I think)
quote:Let's quote all the paragraphs consecutively.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Are you now saying that you didn't meant this dialog to pop up when the Plus! menu item "lock messenger" is choosen?:
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Yes, I didn't notice that users apparently don't get a warning message when they first enable the Messenger Lock via the Plus! Menu.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Yes, I didn't notice that users apparently don't get a warning message when they first enable the Messenger Lock via the Plus! Menu.
So that is what you wanted, ahmetgns? Why didn't you said that?
quote:Is it clear now what I'm talking about?
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Cookie, I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because I believe( d ) the forum regulars (who would support this suggestion) will know that(warmth and john-t knew these I think, because they didn't say any wrong thing about this feature, congratulations guys)
I think the problem is CookieRevised himself! He always thinks that I am that much silly to suggest silly features and he tends to misunderstand my posts even if they were written with a good english. See what Apatik said:
quote:Apart from what Apatik said, when Cookie understood that I suggested totally a crap thing, he must say himself that "Wait a minute... what am I doing? ahmetgns says that he has been using Messenger Plus! for a long time, he is also a translator of it, and he even complains about the questions regarding Messenger Lock feature in the first paragraph in his first post of this thread, so he mustn't have actually meant what I understood even if his english is very poor, so let me read his posts again and again until I get his point before replying about the stupidness of his suggestion." But he doesn't do this, so my threads which he replied get longer and longer all the time. Please CookieRevised, believe me I am a very sensible person and I am clever enough to not contradict myself, period.
Originally posted by Apatik
Apart from that button, the information in the popup makes it pretty clear that it's meant to be displayed on entering lock mode. It's how I understand it anyway.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-15-2007 at 02:57 PM
You're screenshot was pretty clear, but I never said your explanation was (and actually, it wasn't.)
Anyway, could you just stop arguing on whether or not Cookiez has a bad a priori on you (I have one too, so what? ), you fall into that in every single of your threads I read and it's not changing anything.
Yes, maybe he should think longer before answering your posts, but not all of us have enough time to read 5 times a single post in order to understand what is being talked about (if we understand it at all). And I don't think this "behavior" of his is really targeted at you in particular, it's more that you just post a lot of unintelligible threads... And he's pretty quick at the "Post Reply" thing.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-15-2007 at 04:41 PM
I have just thought another idea to avoid two consecutive popup windows.
That is, only one window will be shown according to the case.
Since the user is supposed to read Configuration Wizard and be aware of this feature of Plus! at the first place and even had the option to disable that shortcut from that wizard, I prefer locking Messenger when the shortcut is pressed for the first time but still it is good to show an informative window like you see above.
Note that the first window in the screenshot will be always shown when the user presses the shortcut for the first time, but the latter will not be shown if the former has been already shown.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Chris4 on 12-15-2007 at 06:03 PM
I like the new window you've made as well 
. New users would understand what they need to do, because most people don't read the configuration wizard 
.
So yeah.. I like it very much. Hopefully there isn't any more problems with it being implemented because I'm too lazy to think about whether or not there would be problems . I think it would make things easier... *Applauds ahmetgns*
RE: RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-16-2007 at 02:24 PM
quote:Absolutely not!
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:Let's quote all the paragraphs consecutively.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Are you now saying that you didn't meant this dialog to pop up when the Plus! menu item "lock messenger" is choosen?:
[snipped]
Is it clear now what I'm talking about?
I know what those others have said (I can read and understand their English posts very well). However, I didn't understood a thing from that last gibberish post of yours. Hence, after rereading that post many times, I asked you what you meant instead of immediatly posting a reply without thinking, which is what you always claim what I do.
Quoting posts from others isn't providing a translation/rephrasing of your post. Rephrasing what you posted in that last post will.
I asked you, in a normal way without flaming you, what you meant by that last post and I'm still waiting on it.
And proof that your posts aren't that clear and aren't in perfect English is almost in every single thread of yours. So it isn't so surprising that it happened again here.
And to pull Apatik into this (which I rather don't wanna do because this is between you and me), who's quote you used to show how perfect your English is:
quote:
Originally posted by Apatik
You're screenshot was pretty clear, but I never said your explanation was (Smilie) (and actually, it wasn't.)
Instead you again start to assume stuff about me and telling how you so perfectly know what I do, think, etc? ->
quote:So, here we go again....
Originally posted by ahmetgns
I think the problem is CookieRevised himself! He always thinks that I am that much silly to suggest silly features and he tends to misunderstand my posts even if they were written with a good english.
Your English is NOT good. And many people, NOT only me!, do need to reread your posts again and again to actually understand something.
Your English has improved compared to what it was in the past, but it is still not always understandable.
And making a nice screenshot of a dialog of some hypotetical feature does NOT automatically explain where or how that dialog is going to be used and shown. Hence you made a post explaning the screenshot. And it is exactly THAT, the explanation, which wasn't understood. The explanation which was written in ('your') English.
Some person understanding what you mean from the first time, doesn't automatically mean everybody will, and doesn't mean you wrote everything in perfect English!! Hence why people sometimes ask for more clarification, just as I did. That does NOT mean anything else than just asking for more clarification.
eg: Sometimes I understand a post from a foreign forum user quicker than somebody else. That doesn't mean the poster explained his situation in a clear manner. That doesn't mean the poster is automatically correct. And that doesn't mean the other people are automatically wrong, stupid, or whatever else.
--
Second, I'm sick and tired of you constantly assuming that you know how I do things, what I think, what I know, etc. It is exactly such stuff which could lead to me thinking bad things of you.
I praised your improvements in English before, I congratulated you with some suggestions you did in the past, and I do read your posts with interest (like I read any post with interest), even how crazy they might be, and then you again pull a stunt like that with a reply like that?
I NEVER, automatically assume that a post/suggestion from you is crap. And I NEVER start posting after quickly reading your post (or anyone's post) without thinking stuff over and without trying to see the benefit of it, etc.
quote:You know jack *bleep* about what I think or do...
When Cookie understood that I suggested totally a crap thing...
Nor did/do you know how many times I did/do read posts before replying.
What your problem is (correct me if I'm wrong), is that you seem to assume that I automatically dismiss anything you say or suggest, just because I can't stand you. The thing is that if somebody else made the exact same suggestion using the exact same explanation, I still would have replied the exact same thing. So, for once and for all (although I have said this to you before, many times): I reply on what I read, not on who has posted it. So, finally drop the arrogant act and accept that not everybody understands you immediatly and that not understanding or even not agreeing means they have something against you or that it is they who are doing things wrong. If I would count the times that people don't agree with me and I would act the same way, I would have the whole world as my 'enemy'.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-16-2007 at 03:57 PM
quote:That is exactly what I mean. Rereading this paragraph
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Absolutely not!
I know what those others have said (I can read and understand their English posts very well). However, I didn't understood a thing from that last gibberish post of yours. Hence, after rereading that post many times,
quote:will not help you understand what I'm talking about. On the contrary, it will confuse your mind about what is being talked there. Sometimes, just looking at the current case will not help you understand what that case is, in those times, you must know things that happened before that case. (I swear I wrote something like this to you before) Maybe just staring at my posts to understand them is your another fault, you must consider the history of threads)
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Cookie, I didn't express the special case with Plus! menu item that it won't popup any window, because I believe( d ) the forum regulars (who would support this suggestion) will know that(warmth and john-t knew these I think, because they didn't say any wrong thing about this feature, congratulations guys)
That is why I quoted some of the previous paragraphs which leaded me to write the paragraph you see above. But since you are saying you still couldn't understand, in order me to paraphrase my paragraph, I must learn something from you. Your question is
quote:Can you now say me what that this dialog stand for - the current, original window which is titled "Messenger Lock Shortcut" and shown to people when they firstly press the Messenger Lock Shortcut _or_ the new, modified window which I suggested in this thread and will be shown to people when they firstly lock Messenger if Patchou implements in the software. As soon as you make this clear , I will be glad to explain what I'm talking about. (Just notice that you still think that I'm contradicting myself in that paragraph, really don't you? I am 100% sure you does. Demanding me to paraphrase that paragraph is not because you didn't understand it, it is because you wanted to point to my contradictions in my paragraphs (as if there is any)) I know what you think because it is really very obvious to me...
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Are you now saying that you didn't meant this dialog to pop up when the Plus! menu item "lock messenger" is choosen?:
quote:I think
Originally posted by Cookie
does NOT automatically explain where or how that dialog is going to be used and shown
quote:does explain it very well. See Apatik's post.
Originally posted by screenshot
You have just locked Messeger for the first time.
quote:I swear I didn't make any post explaining the screenshot. Because I knew from my previous experiences that you would not understand my explanations if I did. But Apatik tried to explain when the window will pop-up, but you still couldn't get the point, so
Originally posted by Cookie
Hence you made a post explaining the screenshot.
quote:(Why am I making this post then
Originally posted by Apatik
Hu?
) I can't understand why you are the only one who couldn't understand the idea of my suggestion at first glance (or second, third glances)...quote:Do you think I care them
Originally posted by Cookie
It is exactly such stuff which could lead to me thinking bad things of you.
quote:Hmm, lets see what you said
Originally posted by ahmetgns
When Cookie understood that I suggested totally a crap thing...
quote:If you think, it wouldn't help at all, then I understand that you mean that my suggestion is actually a crap one.
Originally posted by Cookie
PS: Actually, it wouldn't help at all I'm afraid! Because those people who come here ...
quote:First of all, I don't have any problem. The problem is that you most of the time can't get my points in my threads (although other members can even if they are written in a bad english).
Originally posted by Cookie
What your problem is (correct me if I'm wrong), is that you seem to assume that I automatically dismiss anything you say or suggest, just because I can't stand you.
quote:Then I am sad for you. You fail to understand things rapidly.
Originally posted by Cookie
The thing is that if somebody else made the exact same suggestion using the exact same explaination, I still would have replied the exact same thing.
quote:OK, but when they understand me, they understand correctly, not misunderstand like you.
Originally posted by Cookie
So, finally drop the arrogant act and accept that not everybody understands you immediatly...
quote:If you did understand me correctly, then did disagree with any kind of objection, then I would not get angry with you. What I don't like is, you sometimes misunderstand me then think I am suggesting things "which won't help at all you are afraid".
Originally posted by Cookie
understanding or even not agreeing means they have something against you
I'm waiting for your short answer to the question which I asked.
Edit: Can you please fix your wrong usage of verbs in past form. I even pmed to you about this before but you still make that mistake:
Wrong: ...didn't understood...
Correct: ...didn't understand...
Wrong: ...did you meant...?
Correct: ...did you mean...? It really annoys me while reading your posts.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Apatik on 12-16-2007 at 07:52 PM
ROFL.
You both are persistent hu.
ahmetgns : when you use "leaded" as the past participle of "to lead", I don't think you can afford attacking cookiez on his grammar. plzkthx.
His english is not perfect, mine isn't either, but yours is worse because people DON'T understand it. Yeah, right, some do, after reading your posts 5times, great.
And the fact that some understand what you're saying does not mean you have reached perfect writing skills. You still have room for improvement, making your posts clearer, etc. And you should at least try to, if you don't want people like me to ignore most of your threads because we just cba spending 10mn trying to understand them.
Apart from that, it's true Cookiez' answers may be perceived as harsh, but again that's not targeted at you. Just read the thread on version numbers (4.5 VS 4.50) for a nice example.
I'm getting sick of that... -_-
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Aardvark on 12-16-2007 at 11:11 PM
Ignoring the argument which has sorta settled down here, I think there are three good ideas to do with this feature.
1.a. Explain on the dialog box which pops up when you lock messenger how to UNLOCK IT.
1.b. If 1.a. is not applicable then have the tooltip balloon pop up from the systemtray icon explaining you how to unlock it.
2. When you select lock messenger from the Plus! menu (an option I never even realised was there - I use shortcuts too much ) you get a dialog warning also - as how it is with using the key shortcut - MEANING that no matter how you do it, when you lock messenger for the FIRST TIME ONLY, you'll get the dialog box. Makes sense to me. Except you might need to change the words on the dialog box to get rid of "the key combination you have pressed" seeing as you haven't pressed a key combo you've selected a menu item anyway that's not important right now.
Offtopic: @Cookie yeah the interesting thing with Plus! 3 is that when it's installed alongside Plus! 4 when you go to lock messenger it doesn't change the icon, or stop sounds from playing when you receive a message. Which I think might have something to do with the fact it's default key combination for locking messenger is Ctrl+Space, which is now being used as a universal shortcut by Plus! 4, and this reason has been further proven to me when I've tried to make Ctrl+Space work with MP!3 and MP!L at the same time. Anyway so yeah I'm not a pro on the whole bosslock/messenger lock thing and how they may be different, but from my experiences using MP!3 and MP!L together since MP!L came out that's what I've seen.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-17-2007 at 12:26 AM
quote:That's exactly what is supposed to happen as those are the only things Messenger Lock will do in Plus!3. Having Plus!4 or not doesn't matter in this. So what Plus!3 does in that case is exactly the same as if Plus!4 wasn't installed at all. Thus:
Originally posted by Aardvark
@Cookie yeah the interesting thing with Plus! 3 is that when it's installed alongside Plus! 4 when you go to lock messenger it doesn't change the icon, or stop sounds from playing when you receive a message.
quote:nope, nothing todo with that.
Which I think might have something to do with the fact it's default key combination for locking messenger is Ctrl+Space, which is now being used as a universal shortcut by Plus! 4
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Aardvark on 12-17-2007 at 01:50 AM
Then why did it show the changed icon back when everyone was using MP!3 and it doesn't now? Unless it's got something to do with it only changing the icon for msnmsgr and not msmsgs (MSN/WLM and Windows Messenger).
EDIT: And if it's nothing to do with that then why is it? I've always wanted to know
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-17-2007 at 03:22 AM
quote:I'm not quite sure what you're getting at though. But the changed icon was part of the Boss Protection. The Boss Protection hide all windows and changed the icon of Messenger (to that drive icon, by default). The Messenger Lock feature didn't change the icon, but it would lock Messenger with a password. So, they were two different functions acting independant of eachother.
Originally posted by Aardvark
Then why did it show the changed icon back when everyone was using MP!3 and it doesn't now? Unless it's got something to do with it only changing the icon for msnmsgr and not msmsgs (MSN/WLM and Windows Messenger).
EDIT: And if it's nothing to do with that then why is it? I've always wanted to know
Now, with Plus!4, those two features are combined into one. The Lock Messenger feature of Plus!4 can hide all windows, change the system tray icon and lock Messenger with a password.
If that is what you mean...
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Aardvark on 12-17-2007 at 03:39 AM
Not really.
In Plus! 3 when you locked messenger, the icon DID CHANGE to the network drive icon. I swear it did because I remember changing it to another icon and not knowing how to change it back again . That was done using MSN 7.5.
Now I run Plus! 3 on Windows Messenger 5 alongside Plus! 4 with WLM 8.5. Plus! 4 is set up so that when Ctrl+Space is pressed, it locks, and the icon changes.
When I go through the setup wizard on Plus! 3 in Windows Messenger, it says the default combination for locking Plus! is None - but it didn't say None before when I was using MSN 7.5 with Plus! 3.
So firstly - why does it say None
If I try and change it to Ctrl+Space - so that if I press Ctrl+Space both Windows Messenger AND WLM will lock at the same time - it won't let me.
So secondly, why won't it let me?
And thirdly, going back to my original paragraph, when I'm using Windows Messenger and lock it, using /lock, since I haven't setup another key combination, things hide but the icon in the system tray doesn't change.
DOES THIS MEAN that /lock has a different effect to using a key combination, in Plus! 3? or what?
RE: RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-17-2007 at 04:23 AM
quote:Then I'm afraid you remembered wrong
Originally posted by Aardvark
In Plus! 3 when you locked messenger, the icon DID CHANGE to the network drive icon. I swear it did because I remember changing it to another icon and not knowing how to change it back again
As I said before, it is the "Boss Protection" feature which could change the icon, not the "Lock Messenger" feature. Both features could be activated with a shortcut though, and both will 'hide' the Messenger windows. But only one will change the system tray icon, which is the Boss Protection feature.
The default shortcut for the Boss Protection feature is CTRL+SPACE. The Messenger Lock feature didn't had a shortcut assigned and isn't enabled by default.
quote:Such shortcuts are system-wide. This means they will always work, no matter in what application in Windows you're busy with.
Originally posted by Aardvark
Now I run Plus! 3 on Windows Messenger 5 alongside Plus! 4 with WLM 8.5. Plus! 4 is set up so that when Ctrl+Space is pressed, it locks, and the icon changes.
When I go through the setup wizard on Plus! 3 in Windows Messenger, it says the default combination for locking Plus! is None - but it didn't say None before when I was using MSN 7.5 with Plus! 3.
So firstly - why does it say None
But in order to make it so, the shortcuts must be registered to Windows. And you can only assign one application/action to one shortcut. So this means that you can not have two applications (eg: Plus!3 and Plus!4) reacting on the same shortcut. Either one of them should unregister the shortcut in favor of the other.
quote:Same reason as above. You can only assign one application to a system-wide shortcut.
Originally posted by Aardvark
If I try and change it to Ctrl+Space - so that if I press Ctrl+Space both Windows Messenger AND WLM will lock at the same time - it won't let me.
So secondly, why won't it let me?
quote:No, it acts in the exact same way.
Originally posted by Aardvark
And thirdly, going back to my original paragraph, when I'm using Windows Messenger and lock it, using /lock, since I haven't setup another key combination, things hide but the icon in the system tray doesn't change.
DOES THIS MEAN that /lock has a different effect to using a key combination, in Plus! 3? or what?
The command /lock will execute the "Messenger Lock" feature. This feature will not change the systemtray icon. As said before, it is the "Boss Protection" feature which changes the icon. There is no command to activate the Boss Protection.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Aardvark on 12-17-2007 at 04:40 AM
* Aardvark thinks about what the screenshot inevitably said while it was slowly loading and tries adding a shortcut to Boss Protection.
aHA! Now I get it.
Btw when I said "when you locked messenger the icon changes..." I meant Boss protection - stupid complicated jargon.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-17-2007 at 03:38 PM
quote:You think there are three good ideas TO BE IMPLEMENTED TOGETHER IN THE NEXT VERSION, or, ONLY ONE OF WHICH TO BE IMPLEMENTED (not all together)???
Originally posted by Aardvark
I think there are three good ideas to do with this feature.
quote:Why & when cannot 1.a be applicable?
1.b. If 1.a. is not applicable then have the tooltip balloon pop up from the systemtray icon explaining you how to unlock it.
quote:Why ALSO? If user has been explained how to unlock Messenger previously (when he used the shortcut), why would a second warning teach him again how to unlock Messenger?
2. When you select lock messenger from the Plus! menu (an option I never even realised was there - I use shortcuts too much ) you get a dialog warning also
My second post, which incudes screenshots of two seperate windows, already explains everything imho.
When user firstly locks Messeger, however he does it, will get only one pop-up according to the case.
quote:I don't think so. If the window pops-up when he presses the shortcut, it must explain that he pressed a shortcut which locks Messenger. Otherwise, a user would think "what did I do so I locked messenger?".
Except you might need to change the words on the dialog box to get rid of "the key combination you have pressed" seeing as you haven't pressed a key combo you've selected a menu item anyway that's not important right now.
Edit To WDZ's notice: I didn't receive any new-reply notification e-mail after this thread has been split to T&T although, I checked now, it still looks like I have subscribed to this thread.
RE: RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by CookieRevised on 12-19-2007 at 12:09 PM
Ahmetgns, Aardvark simply summed up what has already been said in this thread...
quote:Why is that important? He gives three possebilities. The three possebilities which are talked about in this thread. It's up to Patchou...
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:You think there are three good ideas TO BE IMPLEMENTED TOGETHER IN THE NEXT VERSION, or, ONLY ONE OF WHICH TO BE IMPLEMENTED (not all together)???
Originally posted by Aardvark
I think there are three good ideas to do with this feature.
quote:He gives possebilities. There might be reasons why some method will not work/not be implemented. Reasons only known to Patchou atm.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:Why & when cannot 1.a be applicable?
Originally posted by Aardvark
1.b. If 1.a. is not applicable then have the tooltip balloon pop up from the systemtray icon explaining you how to unlock it.
quote:Who's talking about a second popup? Nobody... Instead read what he said:
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:Why ALSO? If user has been explained how to unlock Messenger previously (when he used the shortcut), why would a second warning teach him again how to unlock Messenger?
Originally posted by Aardvark
2. When you select lock messenger from the Plus! menu (an option I never even realised was there - I use shortcuts too much ) you get a dialog warning also
quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
2. When you select lock messenger from the Plus! menu (an option I never even realised was there - I use shortcuts too much
quote:*sigh* He is very obviously talking about the dialog which pops up when you click the menu item, not when you press a shortcut. Although it is the same dialog, the wordings must be different.
Originally posted by ahmetgns
quote:I don't think so. If the window pops-up when he presses the shortcut, it must explain that he pressed a shortcut which locks Messenger. Otherwise, a user would think "what did I do so I locked messenger?".
Originally posted by Aardvark
Except you might need to change the words on the dialog box to get rid of "the key combination you have pressed" seeing as you haven't pressed a key combo you've selected a menu item anyway that's not important right now.
Aardvark summed up, in a simple yet very clear and understanding manner, what has been said so far in this thread.
You are quick to accuse people of not being abe to read English or not being able to understand what your (very gibberish) posts say, using all sorts of excuses. But you seem to fail at understanding short (and written in proper English!) posts also...
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by ahmetgns on 12-19-2007 at 11:01 PM
Looks like this suggestion is very confusing , everyone can understand everything from the sentences.
RE: [suggestion] Tip window for unlocking Messenger by Voldemort on 12-20-2007 at 12:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ahmetgns
Looks like this suggestion is very confusing (Smilie), everyone can understand everything from the sentences.
If you don't call your sentences sentences, then damn right you are