Hey

I’m going to make this thread because I’m basically sick and tired of everyone's opinion. And the majority of opinions are like an asshole; everyone’s got one and it stinks.


Moving on, I’ve been beta testing MSN Messenger/Windows Live Messenger for about 4-5 years now. I’ve submitted some bugs, gave feedback, posted some suggestions, etc to Microsoft. All my bug testing has been taken into account, and I don’t say this to sound important I just say this because I’ve seen bug fixes around reports that I have sent (of course this is because other people experience the same problem but nonetheless I contributed to it and I am glad)

My ideology of beta testing (whatever product not only limited to Messenger) is installing the product on different configurations. We are talking about Vista, XP, Windows 95 (yes of course I know it wouldn’t install and it is not a supported operating system but that does not matter and is not the point). Different hardware: nVidia/ATI cards, different motherboards etc. Then after that, I believe in trying different patches/add-ons (Plus! for example) to test if Messenger is stable and/or has changed in its method of operation.

Here’s a definition from Wikipedia:

quote:

---

     
Beta testing comes after alpha testing. Versions of the software, known as beta versions released to a limited audience outside of the company. The software is released to groups of people so that further testing can ensure the product has few faults or bugs. Sometimes, beta versions are made available to the open public to increase the feedback field to a maximal number of future users.
It should be noted that although both Alpha and Beta are referred to as testing it is in fact use immersion. The rigors that are applied are often unsystematic and many of the basic tenets of testing process are not used. The Alpha and Beta period provides insight into environmental and utilization conditions that can impact the software.

---

Oh, Okay..
Personally i think Windows Live Messenger beta tester,  should have no  addons or patches, as they could course problems, but of course this is my opinion, we should all worship your opinion

Edit: Also if you can post your opinions, does that mean the rest of the forum can to?

quote:

---

Originally posted by duck!

Edit: Also if you can post your opinions, does that mean the rest of the forum can to?

---

quote:

---

An Internet forum is a web application for holding discussions and posting user generated content

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by duck!
Oh, Okay..
Personally i think Windows Live Messenger beta tester,  should have no  addons or patches, as they could course problems, but of course this is my opinion, we should all worship your opinion

Edit: Also if you can post your opinions, does that mean the rest of the forum can to?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
If Microsoft had a problem with me beta testing with Plus!, I personally know that they would have told me a LONG time ago.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ipab

Agreed.

@riahc4

Each product is targeted towards a certain audience, and as such, each product, it its beta stages has certain QA and various other requirements that it must qualify for (this is set at a corporate level, varying from company to company).

I can tell you one thing though, although many a time a blind eye is turned towards addons and such, but just because they turn a blind eye towards it doesn't mean that they endorse it. This is simply because this conflicts with the goals of beta testing, which is to check program stability and usability in a regular environment, such as conflicts with other programs and so on.

Things in beta are still experimental. If a skinner like myself decided to support a beta, it would be due to the fact that I am a gambling person, on a whim, nothing more, nothing less. Do you remember when messenger was in beta in 8.0?

If I made a skin then, I would have had to re write the whole thing when it became final, because that is the great amount of change that the uifiles went through.

Patchou can vouch for me when I say that 9.0 is significantly different than how 8.5 works. Many of the functions that were in 8.5 were split up and so on, so for me to write an advanced skin that would support 8.5 and 9.0 would be a pain in the ass, if not impossible. Hell even the custom filetype that the messenger team created, which they named RLE, has even changed from 8.5 to 9.0. Of course you wouldn't know anything about that would you now... because if you did we wouldn't be having this thread.

So when you say your ideology of beta testing is to test it in a regular environment, then test it in a regular environment.

I can assure you that doing tech support for over 5 years now that most people fall under the category of using their computer for basic needs. Most people tend not to skin or modify their UI and they certainly don't know enough to fall under the category of willingly modifying the programs they use unless a person such as the people on these forums do it for them. So how is it that you are testing a small niche in a big sea? Instead of looking for bugs that affect proper usability, you however are looking for little nit picky things that are more towards the RC stage. I think if anything, you have confused the roles of a beta tester.

As far as messenger's beta testing goes, it is not there so that you can test out your own modifications of the current program. People are NOT supposed to modify the program, period. It's stated very clearly in the EULA. Try posting in the newsgroups that you modified the client and that it crashes or doesn't perform well and see what the response of the beta team to that will be.

I rambled on too long if I don't make sense, ask for clarification.


P.S.

@duck! - Awesome avatar man, mind if I steal it for personal use .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MenthiX

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
If Microsoft had a problem with me beta testing with Plus!, I personally know that they would have told me a LONG time ago.

---

They do. Both Microsoft employees and Patchou strongly advice against it.

You can test Messenger with Plus! enabled, but once you find a problem, reproduce the bug with Plus! disabled before you report anything. If you can reproduce the bug without Plus!, submit it to Microsoft. If you can only reproduce the bug with Plus! enabled, submit it to Patchou.

Everything is fine as long as you don't report bugs to Microsoft that can't be reproduced with Plus! completely disabled. Microsoft doesn't support unofficial third party add-ons/patches like Plus!, so they won't fix these problems. Submitting them anyway will only make it harder on the MS team while in the meantime you could have reported it to Patchou so he can fix it on his side.

---

obviously you've confused my message.

I was remarking on the fact that the messenger team is only going to be irritate with you if you post that messenger doesn't play well with a unofficial third party addon.

Saying you use plus! doesn't mean much unless you actually make a statement that messenger affect's plus!'s stability...

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
A normal enviroment for you and me is to use Messenger with Plus!. Thats normal. If it crashes with a addon, of course I agree it would be Plus!'s fault. But it could also be Messenger's fault

---

beta tests are made to find BUGS IN SOFTWARE modifying the software prevents the coders from knowing its their fault or not...

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
Then after that, I believe in trying different patches/add-ons (Plus! for example) to test if Messenger is stable and/or has changed in its method of operation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ipab
obviously you've confused my message.

I was remarking on the fact that the messenger team is only going to be irritate with you if you post that messenger doesn't play well with a unofficial third party addon.

Saying you use plus! doesn't mean much unless you actually make a statement that messenger affect's plus!'s stability...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
A normal enviroment for you and me is to use Messenger with Plus!. Thats normal. If it crashes with a addon, of course I agree it would be Plus!'s fault. But it could also be Messenger's fault

---

very true, but that does not mean you should be asking in every scripting thread for an update of the scripts (especially if you didn't even tried the script in question). As it is exactly that what people found extremely annoying, which in the end... bla bla bla

---

riahc4, why did you exactly created this thread? I bet it is not because you suddenly, out of the blue, wanted to share what a beta tester should do. There was a reason why you posted this...

Wasn't it because people attacked you, because you posted in many threads asking for script updates, posting in other threads that you were a beta tester and wanted to have the latest <script/skin/whatever> to use it with WLM9?

And so you probably think (righfully or not) that people do not agree with your ideology or find it stupid or whatever.

This can be read in several posts of yours in those other threads, where you constantly refer to your ideology and constantly say that people attack you on it.

So this thread is very clearly a statement about what you think what a beta tester should or shouldn't do, as a reaction and answer to all your negative votes and comments in those other threads lately.

You even basically said all this yourself to begin with:

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
I’m going to make this thread because I’m basically sick and tired of everyone's opinion. And the majority of opinions are like an asshole; everyone’s got one and it stinks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
that does not mean you should be asking in every scripting thread for an update of the scripts (especially if you didn't even tried the script in question). As it is exactly that what people found extremely annoying, which in the end lead to this thread I think...

---

While testing in every possible situation does seem like a good way of beta testing, it does make more sense to do that sort of testing in the products final stages of testing.

(someone said that earlier in the thread but i cbf finding out who but whoever it was, good point!)

As for using add-ons with beta products, if you actually care about testing the product thoroughly, and were a die hard fan of the product, you wouldn't use it with things which alter it in any way shape or form.

Otherwise if you wanna use stuff like Plus! with things such as WLM 9 and stuff like that then you shouldn't really be complaining to anyone about issues you find since your the one stupid enough to mix uncomplete and complete in the first place (that said if you also wanna waste time UNINSTALLING those add-ons to prove whether the problem will replicate itself which you may have NO IDEA how to get it doing so they hey - be our guest )

EDIT: After reading Cookies post (pah he posted that while I was writing mine)

Weeeell he said he was sick of everybodys opinions, so in a way it looks like hes trying to establish the definitive reason WHY or WHAT beta testing is all about, however if that were true the thread title totally contradicts that - it states hes just expressing an opinion. However if that were true theres no reason to call everybody with wild and wacky opinions an asshole or anything.

Cookie, I created it because Plus! forum members (yes, only on Plus!; Havent recieved this "Attention" in Connect nor other sites I visit) seem to have a problem with testing in all possible enviroments.
Attacked me? I like to call it "catch feelings" but whatever drifts your boat.
Like I said, I could be right or wrong, I just ask for respect. Thats it. Noone should insult anyone over 1s & 0s
The votes? I think people that vote on other people really have no life; Judging people on what they write on a forum is lifewasting. But it does entertain me.
The "Reputation" is IMO a dumb system; Like having more respect for a member with a higher post count.

And now that you said it Cookie I looked at the votes/comments and Im amazed that on threads you cant insult members and in the comments system you can. Didnt know that. But I dont vote on anyone UNLESS its something really positive and meaningful not only to the Plus!/Messenger/etc world but life in general.

quote:

---

While testing in every possible situation does seem like a good way of beta testing, it does make more sense to do that sort of testing in the products final stages of testing.

---

Well actually this thread gave me a point of view haha my original point of view was do what it takes to get the latest version, and help out with any bugs you find, (more or less of course).

*finishes reading the link Voldemort posted* LMAO SO TRUE!

quote:

---

Originally posted by riahc4
Cookie, I created it because Plus! forum members (yes, only on Plus!; Havent recieved this "Attention" in Connect nor other sites I visit) seem to have a problem with testing in all possible enviroments.

---

lol this really does make me laugh.

Look as most of the other people have outlined already, people arent attacking you because you want to be able to test all conditions or whatever......

Its the fact that you are annoying the hell out of developers and skinners by asking them for updates and saying their stuff ain't good cos they wont accommodate to your needs.

Its kind of like kids in the back of a car constantly going "Are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet.... etc "

If you change this attitude and just be patient and wait, then there wouldn't be this issue.

did some secret beta tester event that i don't know about spawn this thread, or is it really as random and useless as i think?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ShawnZ
is it really as random and useless as i think?

---

so its really only useles...