New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts - Printable Version
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New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 03-21-2008 at 02:24 PM
I think a new subsection should be made in scripting called "Completed Scripts".
When a mod sees a thread has [Released] script name he should move it to this new section. It would make things ALOT more organized and easier to find new scripts.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Menthix on 03-21-2008 at 02:26 PM
Pssst.... scripts db 
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by NanaFreak on 03-21-2008 at 02:26 PM
no.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by tony on 03-21-2008 at 02:29 PM
this is not neowin
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by aNILEator on 03-21-2008 at 02:37 PM
I'd rather have a requests subforum than completed
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 03-31-2008 at 01:08 AM
quote:Some scripts are tested/beta/unfinished/etc before they are released in the DB in the forums with a thread. Besides, the scripts in "Completed scripts" would provide a support thread for any questions/suggestions/etc for the script, something that cant be done in the DB.
Originally posted by MenthiX
Pssst.... scripts db
quote:Actually it would be the same thing:
Originally posted by aNILEator
I'd rather have a requests subforum than completed
If we have a "Completed Scripts" subsection, then everything in the current "Scripting" section would be requests.
If we have a "Request Scripts" subsection, then everything in the current "Scripting" section would be releases.
Personally your suggestion is much better and organized, but when I thought of this thread this came up so bah.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 03-31-2008 at 01:40 AM
Bad idea.
For the simple fact that many scripts can never be "completed" and there will always be some discussion, some request or some improvement. In the long run that subforum would be no different than the existing subforum.
The official Script DB is as close as you can get to a "completed" subforum. And if people want to request, suggest or discuss something about a script in the DB, they can do it in the existing thread on this subforum (which should be linked to in the script's description!!). And if such a thread doesn't exist yet it can be created.
Although I think almost every script should have a thread, but just 1 thread, not 23412453124512 threads. Not even just 1 "[request]", 1 "[release]" or whatever, as that would be equally confusing and those threads will sooner or later overlap anyways with information and/or suggestions and/or bug reports. And not even a new thread for updates of a particular script. That can be done in the very same thread also.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Menthix on 03-31-2008 at 07:40 AM
quote:I think the scripts/skin creator should at least be able to have the startpost, so a new topic when filling a request is fine IMO, but no more than that either. The startpost of a thread can be used by the creator to edit and put in notices / extra info /etc. But i believe we had a discussion like this before
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Not even just 1 "[request]", 1 "[release]" or whatever, as that would be equally confusing and those threads will sooner or later overlap anyways with information and/or suggestions and/or bug reports.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 03-31-2008 at 09:10 AM
absolutely
RE: RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by WDZ on 03-31-2008 at 09:41 AM
quote:I agree, but don't you think it's kinda messy to have everything related to a script in one big thread? Even if the first post is kept updated, the posts right below it could be a year old and reporting problems that no longer exist, etc. :\
Originally posted by MenthiX
I think the scripts/skin creator should at least be able to have the startpost, so a new topic when filling a request is fine IMO, but no more than that either.
It's also confusing when several unrelated conversations are happening in a thread at once.
I still want to make a "Script Requests" subforum (as discussed here) for consistency with "Skin Requests"... identifying all the old request threads that need moving will be tricky though.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by aNILEator on 03-31-2008 at 09:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Even if the first post is kept updated, the posts right below it could be a year old and reporting problems that no longer exist, etc. :\
happens sooo much in other forums, it's really off-putting and confusing with custom app threads on neowin or msdn for example.
Lock/delete on old big threads, when updated versions come would solve that issue though
Let's get the script requests subforum a go-go!
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 03-31-2008 at 10:26 AM
And what is considered "big"?
If the topposter replies to an issue with "fixed" or "can't do" or whatever, I don't see what confusing it might be. Of course, if there is no reply and just an update in the first post, then it might.... But then again, even in the first post you could keep a history, a faq or whatever (examples exist here).
Bottom line: if the script creator handles it correctly, there shouldn't be any confusion. If the script creator doesn't handle it properly, then a subforum or even seperate threads aren't going to help fixing that either....
Anyways, Neowin is a massive forum where threads get big in no-time. Here the script threads are relative small/short. And it's only a very small handlfull of scripts that get very big threads. And most of that is due to people not reading.
And the not-reading can't be helped by subforums or multiple threads either I think. So you will still have the same amount of posts in the end, but scattered over several threads. Which on its turn leads to (more) crossposting, missing information, etc....
How many times does it occur that you need to refer people to an existing thread, or that you link to an already existing thread/post about the very same subject or that you repeat something which has been said in a very same thread? I know I encounter it a lot...
When you're going to explicitly allow and encourage different threads I think the information-scattering (and thus needed repeating of information) is only going to get worse.
As for the comparisson with skin forums. That's not very accurate I think. Because of the nature of skins, there isn't much of a discussion when someone requests something or when someone makes a release thread. I mean, with a script, everybody can and will comment on a piece of code. For skins, this is very unlikely. And for scripts you can discuss a lot of stuff about features, report bugs, request additions, etc. For skins this is again not so much.
PS: I'm not against a "requests" subforum for scripts. But only if it is used to only request a certain script and when that script is released keep the additional feature requests and everything else in that release thread. I'm a bit against having multiple (release/bug report/whatever) threads about the same script.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by aNILEator on 03-31-2008 at 10:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And what is considered "big"?
10 pages on default view I would say, too much for a newcomer to check every page for fixes and comments on legacy versions.
But I do agree the first post should always be kept up to date with known issues and changelog of at least the last version
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 03-31-2008 at 04:38 PM
You know what would be uber-cool... A method to collapse posts, so that the answered posts, or old not-relevant-anymore posts can be hidden (by default). Those who wish can read everything, and the newcomer will only see the important posts.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Menthix on 03-31-2008 at 10:25 PM
quote:And who's gonna moderate that? I feel sorry for that person already
Originally posted by CookieRevised
A method to collapse posts, so that the answered posts, or old not-relevant-anymore posts can be hidden (by default).
.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 04-01-2008 at 12:37 AM
Or maybe sticky all the [Release] threads?
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Nagamasa on 04-01-2008 at 12:42 AM
quote:Which means that the stickies themselves take up more room than the threads shown per page...
Originally posted by riahc4
Or maybe sticky all the [Release] threads?
RE: RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by deAd on 04-01-2008 at 02:19 AM
quote:Stickies are for important threads
Originally posted by riahc4
Or maybe sticky all the [Release] threads?
...Stickying all the releases would just make the rest of the threads much harder to find as you'd have to scroll through another few pages just to get to them.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by MeEtc on 04-01-2008 at 03:13 AM
What I would like to see is a scripting resources board, where tutorials / useful information / help with code snippets can go, and have a second board primarily for scripts themselves
My 2 cents
Oh, while I'm at it, how about a completely separate category on the forum index, for extensions for Plus where the script and skin boards can be placed
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Matti on 04-01-2008 at 09:02 AM
quote:Yeh, that may be useful, because at the moment we only have the Tips thread stickied, while there are other interesting threads for scripters who aren't stickied. I agree that a sub-forum would make it easier to find and post information.
Originally posted by MeEtc
What I would like to see is a scripting resources board, where tutorials / useful information / help with code snippets can go, and have a second board primarily for scripts themselves
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by aNILEator on 04-01-2008 at 09:33 AM
Well tutorials are finding a new home on the database soon enough with full colour syntax formatting and what not
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 04-01-2008 at 01:13 PM
About the above: then I hope the tutorials section or whatever is not going to be a code/snippet repository....
Tutorials and/or tips should be just that; tips, tuts, faqs.... Things like a library for accessing the registry (like already shown in that tips thread) should be placed elsewhere, imho... (and the reason is also given in that same tips thread: code can be improved, you can do stuff in different ways, etc...)...
A tip is something like use X instead of Y because of Z. Or on page X you will find more info about Z. A tip is not a full blown library, imho. A tip is: "on page Y you'll find code/snippets/libraries for much used functions in case you don't have the time or knowledge to write them yourself"....
Of course, a code/snippet repository would be nice too
RE: RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by vikke on 04-01-2008 at 03:56 PM
quote:http://mpscripts.net/ ?
Originally posted by MeEtc
What I would like to see is a scripting resources board, where tutorials / useful information / help with code snippets can go, and have a second board primarily for scripts themselves
My 2 cents
Oh, while I'm at it, how about a completely separate category on the forum index, for extensions for Plus where the script and skin boards can be placed
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 04-02-2008 at 01:54 AM
Still, this doesnt really solve the original suggestion about making a official support thread for each complete script...
cookie mentioned about that no script is fully complete so you cant have a support/update/etc section; Well Plus! and Windows arent complete either and they both have a community as you can see...
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Menthix on 04-02-2008 at 06:00 AM
quote:Agreed, it's online now btw: http://www.msgpluslive.net/skins/resources/
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Tutorials and/or tips should be just that; tips, tuts, faqs.... Things like a library for accessing the registry (like already shown in that tips thread) should be placed elsewhere, imho.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 07-15-2009 at 02:12 AM
(Sorry for the bump)
Here, IMO, is again a reason why "completed" scripts (such as Hopper which can be updated but already has at least a 1.0 release) should have a completed subsection.
I requested a script. And I was told to search (which I should have done in the first place, noted). My search only brought me 2 threads related and both are outdated/simply do not work.
Obviously the member that told me to search (I wonder who it could be...) does not tell me anything else because he/she simply posted "search" (Which IMO should also been looked down upon as spam as he/she him/herself did not search, seeing there are no valid threads about my request). Now, with the completed subsection of released scripts, I could have simply searched manually thru a much smaller set of scripts and seen there is no working script for my request.
IDK....I see it logical and alot more organized.
a alternative solution (which I dont like much but oh well) is to enable comments in the script DB. This could sorta make it the official thread but bla..
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by djdannyp on 07-15-2009 at 07:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
Now, with the completed subsection of released scripts, I could have simply searched manually thru a much smaller set of scripts and seen there is no working script for my request.
So you want to search manually through the 550 scripts in the database?
Alternatively, for a "Completed" scripts sub-section.....that is the database..why should it need comments? the only person who needs to comment on it is the author, who can do that via menthix.
if you need any more information on it, you search the forum for the name of that script and you'll find its relevant thread(s)
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 07-15-2009 at 08:40 AM
riahc4, it is not because a thread is (in your opinion) outdated or is about an old script that it doesn't contain valid information, or links.
And a new subsection for completed scripts is of no use because as I said before, a script is almost never 'finished' and you will see that for a lot of scripts, in such a new subsection, threads will be created which will be exactly the same as the threads you have now in the existing subsections.
Including the same questions getting asked more than once, scripts _still_ being updated and certain people would _still_ not search before asking questions.
What needs to change is not the forum, but the attitude of the people using those forums. eg: learning to search (and learning to do a _proper_ search for that matter), not being lazy, reading a thread, and using some common sense before posting... You can add all the subsections you want, that is _not_ going to help if people don't use them properly.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 07-15-2009 at 11:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by djdannyp
So you want to search manually through the 550 scripts in the database?
if you need any more information on it, you search the forum for the name of that script and you'll find its relevant thread(s)
So you know the name of all ~550 scripts?
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
riahc4, it is not because a thread is (in your opinion) outdated or is about an old script that it doesn't contain valid information, or links.
And a new subsection for completed scripts is of no use because as I said before, a script is almost never 'finished' and you will see that for a lot of scripts, in such a new subsection, threads will be created which will be exactly the same as the threads you have now in the existing subsections.
Including the same questions getting asked more than once, scripts _still_ being updated and certain people would _still_ not search before asking questions.
What needs to change is not the forum, but the attitude of the people using those forums. eg: learning to search (and learning to do a _proper_ search for that matter), not being lazy, reading a thread, and using some common sense before posting... You can add all the subsections you want, that is _not_ going to help if people don't use them properly.
Well if you rather say a subsection for released scripts rather than completed scripts then fine by me...
A subsection for release scripts would be nice as it is alot more organized this way.
RE: RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by CookieRevised on 07-15-2009 at 03:40 PM
quote:A) If you are a regular here (which you're suppose to be I think), you would roughly know in what direction you need to search, or what kind of scripts have been made. You can use this knowledge to your benefit when searching.
Originally posted by riahc4
quote:So you know the name of all ~550 scripts?
Originally posted by djdannyp
So you want to search manually through the 550 scripts in the database?
if you need any more information on it, you search the forum for the name of that script and you'll find its relevant thread(s)
B) In most cases the script is named in such a way that it describes what it does. Thus making it relative easy to search for more info or to find a specific script.
C) What djdannyp actually meant was once you found the script and its name in the official DB, you can search for its name in the forums to get more information about it.
And also, you can use contents, name, description, author, etc as keywords...
There are more than plenty enough variables and methods to search for.
Of course, you must be able to do a proper decent and logic search.
And not doing it the lazy way by creating a new thread each time asking for something (which you already asked before in most cases btw). Or asking info about some subject or threads in which you actually already posted a message before...
quote:No, in practice, it will not be more organized, not on a big forum like this. And how it is called is completely, but also realy completely, beside the point! The point is that sooner or later such a subforum (whatever it is called) will be nothing more than a 'copy' of the existing scripting forum, including double threads about the same script, crosspostings, repetative questions, etc etc.
Originally posted by riahc4
Well if you rather say a subsection for released scripts rather than completed scripts then fine by me...
A subsection for release scripts would be nice as it is alot more organized this way.
On a (smaller) forum with very strict rules and with something not like scripts (which, by nature, are updated all the time and on which people constant need to ask questions about, etc) it might work, but not here, not with something so opensource/public as scripting code.
No forum (that I know of at least) which is about opensource scripting has a category 'finished'/'released'/'whatever you wanna call it', because that doesn't work in practice. At the most they have some subforums for different categories of scripts though, exactly like the official DB already has.
Your searching problems will _not_ be solved by creating a new subforum. On the contrary, you will probably be less successfull in finding the proper stuff!! Because you will probably search only that subforum, instead of all the other subforums and thus you _will_ miss vital and important threads which were made in other subforums (but with the same or related subjects).
Instead, learn to perfom a decent search with the proper keywords, learn to do multiple searches, etc... and don't be lazy and/or give up easly. The more you search the better you'll be and the quicker you'll find what you're looking for.
Searching in a subforum is only productive if you actually know for sure that some info is posted in that, and only in that, subforum. Otherwise you should never ever limit your searches to subforums (on this forum at least).
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by djdannyp on 07-16-2009 at 06:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
C) What djdannyp actually meant was once you found the script and its name in the official DB, you can search for its name in the forums to get more information about it.
Correct.....as was everything else you posted, haha
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by riahc4 on 07-19-2009 at 09:07 PM
Ive ment to reply but Im kinda busy at the moment.
When I have time, Ill post.
RE: New subsection in Scripting: Completed Scripts by Nagamasa on 07-20-2009 at 06:35 AM
Guys, I think I have a suggestion for both Skinning and Scripting sections:
We could have like the "Repository" of Skins/Scripts that have something to download, whether it be a picture or the actual skin/script and the posts in it would directly pertain to the skin/script itself. A new thread for the same skin/script would be okay if there is a MAJOR update, such as skins updating from 8.5 to 14.
And then, there would be an area for suggestions, help, or tips regarding skins/scripts in general.