Brazilian translation in the program - Printable Version
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+----- Thread: Brazilian translation in the program (/showthread.php?tid=83500)
Brazilian translation in the program by Le@ndro on 05-03-2008 at 01:13 AM
This is one more topic about the brazilian translation in the program download. But, before delete this thread, read it and please, aswer it.
When I came to this forum, I was searching for a brazilian translation to Messenger Plus! because Portugal portuguese nobody deserves. In some cases, understand the Portugal portuguese for a brazilian is dificout, isn't in all the time, but sometimes we don't understand correctly, mainly in the technology.
Brazilian portuguese have more speakers than Portugal portuguese, the number of brazilian MP!L is more than the portugueses. The diferences between brazilian portuguese and Portugal portuguese is much more than american english and british english.
And the wrost is: why MP!L have 2 translations for chinese but can't have 2 translations for portuguese.(I want the aswer for this).
So, I want to ask for to the Patchou to place the Brazilian translation in the installer of the Messenger Plus! Live. Or change the translation for the brazilian. Please!
Sorry by my english mistakes.
Le@ndro
Desculpa pros brasileiros mas eu não vou traduzir pro português porque eu tenho que ver um filme e tenho que terminar de ver a tempo de assistir CSI na Record.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by MeEtc on 05-03-2008 at 01:16 AM
Searching is your friend.
Brazilian translation for Messenger Plus! Live - 4.60.324
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Le@ndro on 05-03-2008 at 03:43 PM
I don't want a brazilian translation, I want to ask for the Brazilian translation be in the installer.
And why have 2 chinese translations and can't have 2 portugueses translations?
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Voldemort on 05-03-2008 at 04:15 PM
quote:because chinese is actually different and speakers of traditional won't understand simplified... unlike two type of Portuguese or latin spanish and spain spanish.
Originally posted by Le@ndro
And why have 2 chinese translations and can't have 2 portugueses translations?
RE: RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Le@ndro on 05-03-2008 at 08:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
quote:because chinese is actually different and speakers of traditional won't understand simplified... unlike two type of Portuguese or latin spanish and spain spanish.
Originally posted by Le@ndro
And why have 2 chinese translations and can't have 2 portugueses translations?
We can understand Portugal portuguese, but some cases no.
From portuguese Wikipedia:
"At the current moment, the Portuguese is the only language of the world occidental person said for more than one hundred million people with two official ortografias (he notices that languages as the English have prompt differences of orthography but not divergent official ortografias)"
I don't find the translation to "ortografia", but it is the way to write.
For exemple if a typical "MSN" user(they don't know the diference between MSN and MSN/Windows Live Messenger, they don't know what means MSN) see the page with the download and only have "Transferir agora" they won't find where click to download the program.
If Patchou don't want 2 versions in the program, the best thing to do is put the brazilian translation. The number of brazilian MSN users is much more than portugueses users.
And to finish I sow a people saying to make a translation group with 2 portugueses and 2 brazilians. If they do it, the translation will be stranger.
ps: Portugal have 11 milions inhabitants, Brazil have between 185 milions and 190 milions. And the number of people with acess to a computer is more than 30 milions.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Voldemort on 05-03-2008 at 10:37 PM
same with spanish.... there are just so many variatiosn but the translation was merged...
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by blessedguy on 05-04-2008 at 12:27 AM
quote:But it really changes!
Originally posted by Voldemort
same with spanish.... there are just so many variatiosn but the translation was merged...
I can't put up with the Pt-pt translation... their vocabulary is tottally diferent.
The download example:
If a portuguese went to the site and saw "Download agora"" or 'baixe agora!" [=download now], they would think: "Are they crazy?! These words don't exist!"
If a brazilian went to the site and saw "Trasfira agora" or "Puxe agora" [=download now], they would tink: "Why does this have with buying? ("Tranferir" in Portugal means "to download", but in Brazil mans "to pay someone with bank deposit" and "trafser (money)")
Or when we go to the "Plus!" menus... we don't understand a bit of what's written! The ortographical rules are the same, the grammar rules are the same, the words meanings are not [I could stay all night long here typing examples... some of them would be funny... and some of them could cause a disaster...], and because of that, we would like Patchou to include the pt-br translation pack inside the Plus! Installer.
The Pt-pt translation also isn't fine for Plus! popularity here... because people look for the brazilian translation, and some of them get into fake website, downloading bad-purposed files, and telling that it was Plus!'s fault.
Continueing... also, don't include only one trasnlation pack, since the portuguese people would be "injuried" if only the brazilian translation was included. The best thing to do is to include both packs, remembering that the brazilian translation is already done, and it's perfect!
[also, that would make it easy for brazilian skin developers show that "Skins" [en-us], Máscaras [pt-pt] and Capas [pt-br] are the same thing]
So, Patchou... how about including it in a future release?
[oh...and please... not again with that story that the differecne between pt-pt and pt-br is the same as es-es and es-mx, or en-us and en-uk... the difference is huge... well... only 600~500 years of difference (pt-pt still the same since it was born, by 14xx [and something], and pt-br accepts words from almost every language... except for pt-pt)
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Le@ndro on 05-04-2008 at 01:37 AM
blessedguy, você falou tudo que eu queria falar e não consegui, parabéns e muito obrigado. vamos ver se o Patchou concorda com a gente.
I agree with all the things he said.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by blessedguy on 05-04-2008 at 01:43 AM
quote:Thanks! / Obrigado!
Originally posted by Le@ndro
blessedguy, você falou tudo que eu queria falar e não consegui, parabéns e muito obrigado. vamos ver se o Patchou concorda com a gente.
I agree with all the things he said.
RE: RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Edu115 on 05-04-2008 at 03:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by blessedguy
quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
If a portuguese went to the site and saw "Download agora"" or 'baixe agora!" [=download now], they would think: "Are they crazy?! These words don't exist!"
If a brazilian went to the site and saw "Trasfira agora" or "Puxe agora" [=download now], they would tink: "Why does this have with buying? ("Tranferir" in Portugal means "to download", but in Brazil mans "to pay someone with bank deposit" and "trafser (money)")
...
The Pt-pt translation also isn't fine for Plus! popularity here... because people look for the brazilian translation, and some of them get into fake website, downloading bad-purposed files, and telling that it was Plus!'s fault.
Continueing... also, don't include only one trasnlation pack, since the portuguese people would be "injuried" if only the brazilian translation was included. The best thing to do is to include both packs, remembering that the brazilian translation is already done, and it's perfect!
[also, that would make it easy for brazilian skin developers show that "Skins" [en-us], Máscaras [pt-pt] and Capas [pt-br] are the same thing]
So, Patchou... how about including it in a future release?
[oh...and please... not again with that story that the differecne between pt-pt and pt-br is the same as es-es and es-mx, or en-us and en-uk... the difference is huge... well... only 600~500 years of difference (pt-pt still the same since it was born, by 14xx [and something], and pt-br accepts words from almost every language... except for pt-pt)
Your knowledge of the portuguese language amazes me. Yeah, Iberian Portuguese is the same since it was born... I think Iberian Portuguese and Latin are almost identical, really.You should read some books about it.
quote:
Originally posted by http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/january/Portuguese.html
There are two main groups of dialects: those of the Iberian peninsula and those of Brazil. The differences between Iberian and Brazilian Portuguese involve pronunciation, grammar, and vocabulary. For historical reasons, Portuguese varieties spoken in Africa and Asia are generally closer to those of Portugal than of Brazil. The dialects of Iberian Portuguese are better studied than those of Brazilian Portuguese. Standard Portuguese of Portugal is based on Southern dialect as spoken in the Portuguese capital Lisbon.
In addition, Portuguese has given rise to Portuguese-based creoles in Africa, Asia, and the Americas.
Another thing... We, portuguese from Portugal, understand what "Baixe agora" means, what "Download agora" means ( yeah, "Download" isn't brazilian portuguese either ). In fact, we understand almost every expression you use. For sure, you also understand the expressions we use. You can argue about this, but the truth is that Iberian Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are similar.
Another argument you use that I really don't understand is that there are a lot of brazilian users, more than portuguese users. Wouldn't that be a proof that our translation is more than enough? If people didn't understand it, they sure wouldn't use it.
Don't forget that Portuguese isn't only used in Portugal. And i'll not even mention the huge portuguese emmigrant communities in France, Canada, UK, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, ...
Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, São Tomé and Príncipe, East Timor are all countries whose main language ( or one of the main languages ) is Iberian Portuguese. And there's Galicia, where their language is very similar to Iberian Portuguese.
Brazilian Portuguese is used in ... Brazil.
Once again, this is something that was discussed earlier. There are some threads suggesting this. You should search first before creating a new thread.
Let me just say that I don't condemn some people wanting to create a brazilian translation for those who don't understand portuguese, or don't want to bother thinking too much about it. But that file is where it should be - here in the forum. In the future, maybe Patchou will include your file, and i'll be very happy for you. But believe me, my opinion remains.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by Chrono on 05-04-2008 at 05:57 AM
there will NOT be a brazilian translation, get over it. There used to be 2 spanish translations and we merged them, so there could perfectly be a single portuguese translation. The thing is, there SHOULD be a brazilian translator in the team, so you could discuss which words can be understood by both countries.
i think you should ask patchou to include chancer or someone else to the portuguese team.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by blessedguy on 05-04-2008 at 02:54 PM
Ok, but who is in the translation team?
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Your knowledge of the portuguese language amazes me. Yeah, Iberian Portuguese is the same since it was born... I think Iberian Portuguese and Latin are almost identical, really.
You say that because you aren't a "latin" portuguese speaker, knows what happens when a portuguese person is interviewed or something? They include subtitles before it goes on-air, so that everyone understands it. (this is not an arguing, but is fact)
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Another thing... We, portuguese from Portugal, understand what "Baixe agora" means, what "Download agora" means ( yeah, "Download" isn't brazilian portuguese either ).
"Download isn't Portuguese, really. But, according o our grammar, words related to techgnology have to remain the same way they are. (That is why we've got "Informatica" from Italy/France, can't remember now; PC, OS, Download, Upload, CPU, Drive, from USA; and another know words.
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
In fact, we understand almost every expression you use. For sure, you also understand the expressions we use. You can argue about this, but the truth is that Iberian Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are similar.
Search YouTube for "Programa do Jô", find an edition where he talks about pt-pt and pt-br differences
Also, watch this video, this one too, and at last. Are you sure they are small diferences?
means, what "Download agora" means ( yeah, "Download" isn't brazilian portuguese either ).
"Download isn't Portuguese, really. But, according o our grammar, words related to techgnology have to remain the same way they are. (That is why we've got "Informatica" from Italy/France, can't remember now; PC, OS, Download, Upload, CPU, Drive, from USA; and another know words.
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Another argument you use that I really don't understand is that there are a lot of brazilian users, more than portuguese users. Wouldn't that be a proof that our translation is more than enough? If people didn't understand it, they sure wouldn't use it.
And they don't use the pt-pt. They go to the website, find the Help page, find the forum page, see translation, and see: "Oh, yay! Here is it!" [almost clicking at that sticky post that has the pt-br language pack]. And, yes, there are more brazilians than portugueses using WLM. In fact, many of them don't even know there are other Instant Messaging programs, since WLM already comes in Windows [Windows is about 98% of brazilian's market]. They discover plus! looking for cool stuff to install to make messenger a little better [and they find: Plus!, the best add-on available to WLM].
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Don't forget that Portuguese isn't only used in Portugal. And i'll not even mention the huge portuguese emmigrant communities in France, Canada, UK, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, ...
Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, São Tomé and Príncipe, East Timor are all countries whose main language ( or one of the main languages ) is Iberian Portuguese. And there's Galicia, where their language is very similar to Iberian Portuguese.
Brazilian Portuguese is used in ... Brazil.
Fact. That is why it is called Brazilian Portuguese. And, are you sure brazilian emmigrant communities are small? Well... they aren't, I assure you.
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Once again, this is something that was discussed earlier. There are some threads suggesting this. You should search first before creating a new thread.
I didn't create this. I was the 7th to post a reply.
quote:
Originally posted by Edu115
Let me just say that I don't condemn some people wanting to create a brazilian translation for those who don't understand portuguese, or don't want to bother thinking too much about it. But that file is where it should be - here in the forum. In the future, maybe Patchou will include your file, and i'll be very happy for you. But believe me, my opinion remains.
I also am not against the Portugal portuguese be inside the installer. I just dislike ONLY pt-pt being included. But, yeah, at least there is the translation pack here. But...wouldn't it be really easier to include that 217Kb (smaller than the pt-pt, btw) with the program?
And, yep, that's what I'm asking for, inclusion of it in a future release.
RE: RE: Brazilian translation in the program by CookieRevised on 05-04-2008 at 03:34 PM
Not again....
As suggested before, there are many threads regarding this, please read them FIRST. All the things discusses here are already discussed before on those threads....
Still, some pointers:
quote:This has got little to nothing todo with the issue. For example, when some Dutch people from the Netherlands are interviewed on a Belgium (=also Dutch!) show, it is subtitled also. Or vice versa; and even some Dutch speaking people from Belgium are subtitled on Belgium shows.
Originally posted by blessedguy
You say that because you aren't a "latin" portuguese speaker, knows what happens when a portuguese person is interviewed or something? They include subtitles before it goes on-air, so that everyone understands it. (this is not an arguing, but is fact)
Also, Dutch people from Belgium don't understand some words the Dutch people from the Netherlands use and vice versa. This is exactly the same... Yet there is only 1 Dutch language.
Of course you can turn every translation into something specific for a certain country speaking that same language. But this is not the purpose of the translation files in Plus!.
As for loan words like 'computer', etc. Those can be translated too (again I take Dutch as an example) in such a way that the English influence is gone. But that is only for language-purists. The fact is that each and every language consists of loan words (and many from English). In fact, words you think of being native to your language have probably been derived hundreds of years ago from another language anyways. So there isn't such a thing as true language specific/non-loan words (thinking about the many latin influences which are long forgotten).
If there is going to be a seperate translation for each sub-language in Plus!, then the installer size will increase enourmously. pt-br might be 220KB, but so is each and every other (sub)language file.
Like suggested before, and for now, the Portuguese translation should be made in such a way that both people from Portugal and Brazil (and many many many other pt speaking people in the world) understand it. This is done exactly the same for MANY other language sets in Plus!.
Yes, if you want you can make a pt-pt translation which Brazilians don't understand and a pt-br translation which Portuguese people don't understand. But there is also a possebility to make it understandable for both, and that is what should be done. Again, just as with all the other sub-languages....
And arguments like pt-br people use WLM more than pt-pt people or whatever are meaningless without decent studies and demographic analyzes and whatever.
As for many other arguments I again want to refer to the existing threads. There you will also see many 'strange' pro-br arguments which even go against other pro-br arguments. Another strange thing is that the pt-br translation started out with almost a plain copy of the pt-pt translation claiming it to be completely done, so, I think this says something also...
Anyways, for now there isn't going to be an extra pt-br translation included in the Plus! setup, nor for any other sub-language. If you want pt-br you can always download the seperate pt-br translation.
Again, please read the many other threads which already discussed all this and already explained all this. No reason for multiple threads to exist.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by blessedguy on 05-04-2008 at 03:39 PM
quote:I like this idea. But it isn't like that today.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Like suggested before, the Portuguese translation should be made in such a way that both people from Portugal and Brazil (and many many mAny other pt speaking people in the world) understand it.
Can't any moderator close this thread? This discussion sure will take us to nothnig.
RE: Brazilian translation in the program by CookieRevised on 05-04-2008 at 04:01 PM
Before this thread gets closed I'd like to point out that the official translators for the Portuguese translation are
Gonçalo F. and Edu115 (that I know of).
Contact them if you want to be part of the team or if you want to discuss this further (internally).
As Choli already said, and I agree with this, it would be very good if a Brazilian would join the team if there isn't already someone.