[Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner - Printable Version
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[Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by riahc4 on 10-12-2008 at 05:09 PM
This is KIND of going offtopic on Plus!'s goals but....
How about a virus scanning engine but for Messenger; It can protect Messenger from receving/getting viruses and block/disable/clean known Messsenger related malware. There isnt too much left to be able to add to Messenger/Plus! so maybe Patchou would be intrested in this area.
Nowadays SPIM is becoming more and more common.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Basilis on 10-12-2008 at 05:13 PM
Actually, we all know of some messages like "Check out my new pictures" that are not from our contacts but from other sources. If Plus! could block them, it would be great. Nice idea riach4! 
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by prashker on 10-12-2008 at 05:16 PM
quote:More suitable for a script.
Originally posted by Basilis
If Plus! could block them, it would be great. Nice idea riach4!
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by riahc4 on 10-12-2008 at 06:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Basilis
Actually, we all know of some messages like "Check out my new pictures" that are not from our contacts but from other sources. If Plus! could block them, it would be great. Nice idea riach4!
The problem is that these messages come in multiple languages so blocking based on context would not fix it for everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam
quote:More suitable for a script.
Originally posted by Basilis
If Plus! could block them, it would be great. Nice idea riach4!
A (outdated) script is already avaliable for malware scanning but I think if Patchou took this into his own hands, we could get some great results.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by RaceProUK on 10-15-2008 at 06:59 PM
Or you could just use a decent virus scanner that will protect the entire PC.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by prashker on 10-15-2008 at 08:02 PM
Nod32 ftw
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by riahc4 on 10-15-2008 at 08:44 PM
quote:But does a "decent virus scanner" protect from that "check who blocked you" namechaning virus?
Originally posted by RaceProUK
Or you could just use a decent virus scanner that will protect the entire PC.
I believe no.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Spunky on 10-15-2008 at 08:56 PM
It would scan a file on opening... The only other type of "virus" I can think of is the one were you enter your details to a website, but that can't be stopped
RE: RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by djdannyp on 10-15-2008 at 09:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
quote:But does a "decent virus scanner" protect from that "check who blocked you" namechaning virus?
Originally posted by RaceProUK
Or you could just use a decent virus scanner that will protect the entire PC.
I believe no.
a decent user should do that though
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Quantum on 10-15-2008 at 09:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam
Nod32 ftw
X2
___
I was seriously think about making a script to block things like these
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Menthix on 10-15-2008 at 09:52 PM
quote:If that's one where you need to download a file by either filetransfer or URL, sure. If that's one where you need to voluntarily give a random site your username and password, maybe if the site is on some kind of blocklist. But sites change quickly, it is impossible for any scanner to provide good protecting against phishing sites, Messenger Plus! is no exception to that.
Originally posted by riahc4
But does a "decent virus scanner" protect from that "check who blocked you" namechaning virus?
Educating people to not be silly clowns and type in their password everywhere just because a stranger asks them nicely sounds like a better idea. Somehow it became acceptable to give other sites login details which don't belong to them... for example giving Facebook your Messenger password to import your contacts. You may be trusting Facebook, but any site where you login with your Messenger login details can do anything they like with your account. These aren't even viruses, you just handed over your private information and the site owner can use your account for whatever he wishes. Just because your password is hidden in a password field doesn't mean the site doesn't exactly know your password when you type it in. People need to start realizing that. There is no automated software protection against being ignorant.
</rant>
RE: RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by riahc4 on 10-17-2008 at 08:52 PM
quote:I completely disagree with you.
Originally posted by MenthiX
quote:If that's one where you need to download a file by either filetransfer or URL, sure. If that's one where you need to voluntarily give a random site your username and password, maybe if the site is on some kind of blocklist. But sites change quickly, it is impossible for any scanner to provide good protecting against phishing sites, Messenger Plus! is no exception to that.
Originally posted by riahc4
But does a "decent virus scanner" protect from that "check who blocked you" namechaning virus?
Educating people to not be silly clowns and type in their password everywhere just because a stranger asks them nicely sounds like a better idea. Somehow it became acceptable to give other sites login details which don't belong to them... for example giving Facebook your Messenger password to import your contacts. You may be trusting Facebook, but any site where you login with your Messenger login details can do anything they like with your account. These aren't even viruses, you just handed over your private information and the site owner can use your account for whatever he wishes. Just because your password is hidden in a password field doesn't mean the site doesn't exactly know your password when you type it in. People need to start realizing that. There is no automated software protection against being ignorant.
</rant>
If your logic, then everyone is ignorant. You are ignorant because you are using Plus! when you could be taught how to program and make it yourself. Hell Patchou is ignorant because he is using Messenger when he could have made Messenger himself. The Messenger team is ignorant because they could have made Windows themselves.....
People want simple and easy things that works. Thats the world we live in. They don't want to be taught or anything. Thats one of the (sad) reasons that OSX is getting so much these days in terms of sales.
I still believe this would be something nice to study. The sites don't change THAT often. Besides, a software can hook and make sure that the input comes from the keyboard and not automated like those "Check who blocked you" automessage.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Menthix on 10-17-2008 at 10:24 PM
quote:I'm simply saying people shouldn't type in their Messenger password on every random site (referring to phising sites offering block checks etc.) and assume it will be safe. I don't get your comparisons tho, the things you talk about take quite a bit of effort and resources... keeping your password secure is just common sense IMHO.
Originally posted by riahc4
If your logic, then everyone is ignorant.
quote:I understand that, so do I. But as I explained providing full protection against phishing sites is just not possible.
Originally posted by riahc4
People want simple and easy things that works. Thats the world we live in.
quote:That makes you ignorant.
Originally posted by riahc4
They don't want to be taught or anything.
quote:How would you submit bad sites, how do we verify which ones are indeed bad and which ones are false positives? Microsoft has their own blocklist on Messenger, but with way more resources than Plus! they are completely failing to provide any kind of security trough it. I'm not against the idea, but if something like this would be done it should be done right. As you said, don't want to be taught... they want to rely on a scanner like this blindly. I just don't see yet how a blocklist could provide enough security instead of being some kind of false hope.
Originally posted by riahc4
The sites don't change THAT often.
quote:That would be a nice feature, when the software detects such things it could point to good quality resources (removal tools/changing your password/bakground info). But that's when the harm is already done, neither does it protect against attacks which just log in under your account serverside.
Originally posted by riahc4
a software can hook and make sure that the input comes from the keyboard and not automated like those "Check who blocked you" automessage.
RE: RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by CookieRevised on 10-18-2008 at 06:29 AM
I completely agree with Menthix in every aspect.... Moreover:
quote:No it can not.
Originally posted by riahc4
a software can hook and make sure that the input comes from the keyboard and not automated like those "Check who blocked you" automessage.
Such messages you are talking about, which you whish there was a protection for and hence you suggested this idea, are usually send when the user himself is offline.
Plus! can not detect those messages by checking if it comes from 'the keyboard' (nor can any other scanner) because they aren't send from a person's computer. They are send from a 'service' logging in into the contact's account. And as you said so yourself, such message often come in different languages.
And the other kind of SPIM is already detected by good scanners.
Also, the sites refered to in such messages do change all the time! That is exactly why they spread so much; it is hard to keep track of all the malicious sites popping up and blocking them without triggering false positives. For example, in the last couple of months I have gathered more than 30 links from a particular SPIM. Each time one site is blocked by MS/Messenger two other sites pop up...
To protect against such SPIM the best solution is to report them to MS so they can be blacklisted. Of course, if nobody reports them MS/Messenger wont be able to protect you from it either. So, instead of hoping on something to be created (which wont work anyways), do the proper thing and report sch SPIM thru the proper channels.
Bottem line: I don't see how such a scanner in Plus! is going to be better than anything which already exists. Let the protection be done by the proper software and instances who also have the resources to investigate and maintain check lists, etc. Plus! isn't going to be able to do anything 'magic' here.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by markee on 10-19-2008 at 07:29 AM
On top of what cookie explained.... As soon as a site doesn't get filtered, or there is something just outside the scope of what plus! will filter, then the forum will be swamped with people complaining and Patchou will get a bad wrap.
If you take note of Patchou's features, he does them well and does them fully, something like this protection cannot be fully achieved, not even by the big AV companies. Do you really want to see Patches get a bad name? Especially with the continuous problems he already gets about 'bundling malware'?
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Patchou on 10-20-2008 at 03:12 AM
I would like that but as pointed out, it's unfortunately too hard to do if it has to be reliable. I would need a team dedicated to it 24/7 and I just can't do that kind of thing right now (maybe next year if everything goes as planned... ).
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by bazzach on 10-20-2008 at 04:09 AM
I personally think that maybe messenger should have link protection built in? that way we dont have to use those other crappy addons available for msn
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Menthix on 10-20-2008 at 09:37 AM
quote:Messenger already has a bloclist which blocks certain URLs and patterns. The problem is that it isn't maintained properly. Some URLs are falsely blocked, while a lot of real viruses get trough without any problem.
Originally posted by bazzach
I personally think that maybe messenger should have link protection built in?
quote:Secret big plans?
Originally posted by Patchou
I would need a team dedicated to it 24/7 and I just can't do that kind of thing right now (maybe next year if everything goes as planned...
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Quantum on 10-20-2008 at 12:20 PM
Suggestion: When a user downloads and installs a script Plus! scans the script for dodgy code and things and tells the user if it downloads stuff or it can be a potential threat.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Menthix on 10-20-2008 at 01:01 PM
Install a McAfee product, it will stamp every script as a threat, problem solved.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Thor on 10-20-2008 at 02:06 PM
quote:Interesting.
Originally posted by Patchou
I would like that but as pointed out, it's unfortunately too hard to do if it has to be reliable. I would need a team dedicated to it 24/7 and I just can't do that kind of thing right now (maybe next year if everything goes as planned...
Now, what kind of team would that be? Magic scripters?
* Thor is curious
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Spunky on 10-20-2008 at 07:35 PM
I'm sure you could find volunteers
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Quantum on 10-21-2008 at 12:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by john-t
Suggestion: When a user downloads and installs a script Plus! scans the script for dodgy code and things and tells the user if it downloads stuff or it can be a potential threat.
The answer.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by bazzach on 10-21-2008 at 02:29 AM
Lol yeah a virus scanner for msn could be a good idea, but a good antivirus usually comes with messenger protection, like bitdefender for example? (:
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by markee on 10-21-2008 at 09:28 PM
quote:And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Originally posted by john-t
quote:
Originally posted by john-t
Suggestion: When a user downloads and installs a script Plus! scans the script for dodgy code and things and tells the user if it downloads stuff or it can be a potential threat.
The answer.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Quantum on 10-21-2008 at 10:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by markee
quote:And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Originally posted by john-t
quote:
Originally posted by john-t
Suggestion: When a user downloads and installs a script Plus! scans the script for dodgy code and things and tells the user if it downloads stuff or it can be a potential threat.
The answer.
Idk
The same way AV does it
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by X3_ on 10-22-2008 at 11:29 AM
doesnt WLM already support that?
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by Spunky on 10-22-2008 at 01:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by markee
And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Small team of script testers that can determine what functions are called or what the exe is used for. That way, different people report different things and more malicious code would be stopped. I'm personally all up for a bunch of us maintaining a list of malicious sites, scripts, programs and other files (zip for example) that, when linked to, get blocked. If it could be built into Plus! the only issue would be all the users downloading the updates would take a lot of bandwidth
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by markee on 10-23-2008 at 08:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spunky
quote:
Originally posted by markee
And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Small team of script testers that can determine what functions are called or what the exe is used for. That way, different people report different things and more malicious code would be stopped. I'm personally all up for a bunch of us maintaining a list of malicious sites, scripts, programs and other files (zip for example) that, when linked to, get blocked. If it could be built into Plus! the only issue would be all the users downloading the updates would take a lot of bandwidth
Hmmm, I guess that is a good point. Bandwidth can be minimised with updates based on the time of the last update. Just adding and removing the changes.
Also, I think because of the different ways you can you can show the same URL, then it would be quite a wise idea to use some more generic regex rather than a definite structure (but that is just my preference).
I guess this feature would be feasible with the community helping Patchou and keeping their eyes out for new problems (and with an adequate disclosure).
RE: RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by riahc4 on 10-27-2008 at 08:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
I would like that but as pointed out, it's unfortunately too hard to do if it has to be reliable. I would need a team dedicated to it 24/7 and I just can't do that kind of thing right now (maybe next year if everything goes as planned...
Sounds good
Thank you for taking my suggestion into consideration.
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by CookieRevised on 10-27-2008 at 05:57 PM
quote:We come to a full circle now...
Originally posted by john-t
quote:
Originally posted by markee
quote:And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Originally posted by john-t
quote:
Originally posted by john-t
Suggestion: When a user downloads and installs a script Plus! scans the script for dodgy code and things and tells the user if it downloads stuff or it can be a potential threat.
The answer.
Idk
Because why not simply use an existing AV then? Why reinvent the wheel?
quote:
Originally posted by Spunky
quote:Small team of script testers that can determine what functions are called or what the exe is used for. That way, different people report different things and more malicious code would be stopped. I'm personally all up for a bunch of us maintaining a list of malicious sites, scripts, programs and other files (zip for example) that, when linked to, get blocked. If it could be built into Plus! the only issue would be all the users downloading the updates would take a lot of bandwidth
Originally posted by markee
And how do you suppose we check a dll or exe file that is part of the script?
Correct me if I'm wrong and forgive me for being negative, but I don't know any people here who are capable of doing something like that (well, maybe 1 or 2, but that's it). That is investigating properly what a (exe) file might do just like the major AV companies do.
Maintaining a list of files and urls is one thing, but investigating is something completely different. And for 'just' having yet another list (very small list compared to the major AVs), it sounds a lot like trying to reinvent the wheel again while there are already many factories who are already producing all the wheels you can think of and have all the tech info and knowhow about wheels....
Why not using the report forms which every major AV has and the abuse report forms from MS? People complain all the time that MS is doing a crappy job or that the blacklist in Messenger isn't good. Well, one of the major things about that is that they need your input. Use the report forms and report malicious stuff, also report false positives, etc...
Creating yet another independant AV kind of thing isn't going to work and isn't going to solve anything if nobody reports stuff. And if people don't even use a simple and easy accessable abuse report form now, then why would they suddenly start reporting things for yet another AV?
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
quote:Sounds good
Originally posted by Patchou
I would like that but as pointed out, it's unfortunately too hard to do if it has to be reliable. I would need a team dedicated to it 24/7 and I just can't do that kind of thing right now (maybe next year if everything goes as planned...
RE: [Suggestion] Messenger Plus! Live virus scanner by automatic91 on 10-30-2008 at 08:48 AM
"blah blah a gud virus scanner wuld stop it"
i think.. even if it was semi reliable or even 50% working... i'd use it...
i find it so annoying when these stupid people actually fall for it, and i get told every damn minute "have u seen tehse fotos of me" cuz its sooo damn annoying