Is australia really racist or is it a misconception - Printable Version
-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: General (/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+---- Forum: General Chit Chat (/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+----- Thread: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception (/showthread.php?tid=92520)
Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Jarrod on 10-09-2009 at 07:23 AM
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=92518
dicuss
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by andrey on 10-09-2009 at 07:33 AM
![[Image: 2ccuxiu.png]](http://i34.tinypic.com/2ccuxiu.png)
is it racist if i think this is hilarious?
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by ipab on 10-09-2009 at 07:36 AM
I think comedy has a lot to do with gauging your audience. You wouldn't go onto a plane and make jokes about terrorists taking it over would you...
So, there is a time and a place for everything and I think in this case, it was appropriate. As far as black-face goes, it does have a bad history and I can see why people are up in arms about it.
I do however grow weary of this new-age political correctness bullshit... But on the other hand, it seems that Australia does seem have a bad rap, when it comes to being all inclusive with respect to minorities and such...
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 07:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jarrod
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=92518
dicuss
I was going to make this thread, but decided not to because i have been ranting in the sb about it for the past 2 days.
The american media are just plain stupid. They say australia is backward 30 years, when infact we are 30 years ahead because we do not take race seriously. They live in a political correct society where everything you do is racist. A white person driving a black car would be racist.
The skit that was performed was meant to be humerous, it is a parody of the jackson 5. What colour are the jackson 5? black, so they wore black wigs and black face paint, i fail to see how that's racist. If they the skit was about parodying black people then that would be pushing the line.
But the funniest thing about this all is that 3 of the performers are actually indian and 2 others are lebanese. Oh the irony.
Anyway, as i see it, if you take offence to someone saying something about your race then you are pretty much saying you are ashamed of your race. For example, If a black person came up to me and said "Your a white dog" I would in no way take offence to this and would piss myself with laughter. But if it was the other way around and i said that to a black person, they would take huge offence to it. That basically says that they are ashamed of there race, and they think that there race is bad.
P.S i would love for Rolando to come into here and tell us all why he thinks what they did was racist.
It seems political correctness has been imprinted into peoples brains already. Automatically when they see someone wearing black face paint they think it's racist.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by ipab on 10-09-2009 at 07:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ipab
is it racist if i think this is hilarious?
Quick, catch this LGBT basher!!!!oneone11eleven
P.S. I do find the prospect of a black/gay batman humorous and oddly fitting. (It puts a whole different spin on why Robin is always around him...)
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
But the funniest thing about this all is that 3 of the performers are actually indian and 2 others are lebanese. Oh the irony.
Let me be the first to tell you that minorities are just as racist as non-minorities. People are people. The debate here was whether blackface was appropriate, not whether a White person did it, or an Indian did it...
Just because a minority is racist, does not make it ironic nor does it make it appropriate...
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 07:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ipab
quote:
Originally posted by ipab
is it racist if i think this is hilarious?
Quick, catch this LGBT basher!!!!oneone11eleven
P.S. I do find the prospect of a black/gay batman humorous and oddly fitting. (It puts a whole different spin on why Robin is always around him...)
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
But the funniest thing about this all is that 3 of the performers are actually indian and 2 others are lebanese. Oh the irony.
Let me be the first to tell you that minorities are just as racist as non-minorities. People are people. The debate here was whether blackface was appropriate, not whether a White person did it, or an Indian did it...
Just because a minority is racist, does not make it ironic nor does it make it appropriate...
There is no debate on whether blackface was appropriate, because it was appropriate. The performers were pretending to be the jackson 5, the jackson 5 were black so they wore black face. The debate is weather it was racist or not.
It's all political correctness, combined with the overuse of the word "racist" "oh look they are wearing black face paint thats racist"
"look he has black hair, thats racist"
People are obviously not happy with other people pretending to be a race that there not, which is utterly stupid.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by vaccination on 10-09-2009 at 08:09 AM
The question of it being racist is all down to whether it was a serious tribute or they were taking the piss. [though, if they were taking the piss, you then have to split it into what they were taking the piss of to determine if it's racist]
If you wanted to be extreme you could flip the argument around and say it's racist to not allow white people to 'dress up' as black people in order to pay tribute/show respect[or even if they just want to be black, I guess]. Same as it being apparently racist for me to call my homeboys niggaz[as in good friends, the same as any other black [gangsta] man does]
![[Image: zippystretch.gif]](http://shoutbox.menthix.net/images/smilies/zippy/zippystretch.gif)
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 08:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
The question of it being racist is all down to whether it was a serious tribute or they were taking the piss. [though, if they were taking the piss, you then have to split it into what they were taking the piss of to determine if it's racist]
If you wanted to be extreme you could flip the argument around and say it's racist to not allow white people to 'dress up' as black people in order to pay tribute/show respect. Same as it being apparently racist for me to call my homeboys niggaz[as in good friends, the same as any other black [gangsta] man does]
They were taking the piss, but not out of the jackson 5, out of themselfs. That's the whole point of the segment. People come and perform things and usually make fools of themselfs and they win prizes.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by vaccination on 10-09-2009 at 08:15 AM
quote:fair 'nuff, I didn't watch vid p:
Originally posted by Discrate
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
The question of it being racist is all down to whether it was a serious tribute or they were taking the piss. [though, if they were taking the piss, you then have to split it into what they were taking the piss of to determine if it's racist]
If you wanted to be extreme you could flip the argument around and say it's racist to not allow white people to 'dress up' as black people in order to pay tribute/show respect. Same as it being apparently racist for me to call my homeboys niggaz[as in good friends, the same as any other black [gangsta] man does]
They were taking the piss, but not out of the jackson 5, out of themselfs. That's the whole point of the segment. People come and perform things and usually make fools of themselfs and they win prizes.
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 08:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
quote:fair 'nuff, I didn't watch vid p:
Originally posted by Discrate
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
The question of it being racist is all down to whether it was a serious tribute or they were taking the piss. [though, if they were taking the piss, you then have to split it into what they were taking the piss of to determine if it's racist]
If you wanted to be extreme you could flip the argument around and say it's racist to not allow white people to 'dress up' as black people in order to pay tribute/show respect. Same as it being apparently racist for me to call my homeboys niggaz[as in good friends, the same as any other black [gangsta] man does]
They were taking the piss, but not out of the jackson 5, out of themselfs. That's the whole point of the segment. People come and perform things and usually make fools of themselfs and they win prizes.
I knew you didn't lol, as if you would.
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by CookieRevised on 10-09-2009 at 10:00 AM
I agree fully with what ipad said here
Discrate, your agruments don't hold up imo...
quote:Contradicting.
Originally posted by Discrate
The skit that was performed was meant to be humerous, it is a parody of the jackson 5. What colour are the jackson 5? black, so they wore black wigs and black face paint, i fail to see how that's racist. If they the skit was about parodying black people then that would be pushing the line.
First you say it is a parody (which _is_ taking the piss out of people or things). Then you say the J5 are black. So, yes, they DO parodying black people, no?!
quote:What irony? As ipad said, that doens't matter at all. Even a black guy painting his face black (in that same manner) and putting a black wig on can be on the border of racism depending on the context.
Originally posted by Discrate
But the funniest thing about this all is that 3 of the performers are actually indian and 2 others are lebanese. Oh the irony.
Irony would be the fact that the guy playing MJ is a plastic churgeon.
Racism is the act of insulting _a_ race, knowingly or not. It absolutely doesn't matter what race the racist has. But from what I've read about these matters in past threads you seem to have a different idea of what racism is or can be.
But most wrong argument which doesn't make any sense at all imo is:
quote:That makes absolutely no sense at all imho. "Ashamed"?? If you take huge offence to it when someone insults you because of your race, how on earth would that mean that you're ashamed or not of your own race then???? I fail to see the logic here. On the contrary, I would say they would be proud of their race.
Originally posted by Discrate
Anyway, as i see it, if you take offence to someone saying something about your race then you are pretty much saying you are ashamed of your race. For example, If a black person came up to me and said "Your a white dog" I would in no way take offence to this and would piss myself with laughter. But if it was the other way around and i said that to a black person, they would take huge offence to it. That basically says that they are ashamed of there race, and they think that there race is bad.
And if you laugh a comment like "white dog" away, you indeed either aren't insulted by it and ignorent to such comments, or you don't know they actually insulted you with a racist comment. I dunno what the worst of the two is...
quote:As someone said already there is a time and place for most things. Putting pure black paint on your face like that, together with such a wig to portray a 'typical' black person is the _exact_ characteristical image people used decades ago to redicule black people. If you do not understand that then it is maybe time to brush up on your world history.
Originally posted by Discrate
It seems political correctness has been imprinted into peoples brains already. Automatically when they see someone wearing black face paint they think it's racist.
I have seen a lot of performances where non-black people dress up as black people and all are done in a tastefull manner, and none looked like those performers shown on that video. So, yes you can dress up as a black person, why not, but do it in a tastefull manner (the guys on that video weren't that distastefull imo though, I've seen far worse too). And even exaggerating it can be done in a tastefull and funny manner without resorting to such a typical image. Although I'm sure/hope it wasn't their intention to insult, that particular image in the context to portray black people has a big and very sensitive history though.
Thus:
quote:No, not automatically at all. But when they put black paint and a wig like that in the context to portray black people, then yes it can.
Originally posted by Discrate
Automatically when they see someone wearing black face paint they think it's racist.
Saying that shows you don't know or fail to understand from where that image comes from. And thus jumping like that on the people who say something about it only shows that you don't know that particular history and/or the big impact it had and maybe still has in some parts of the world. So you realy realy should look up from where and when that exact image (pure black paint on the face and big afro wig) comes from and for what it was used in what circumstances in the past.
quote:Nope it was not, at least not in such a manner. There are far less insulting ways of dressing up as a black person without using such a typical image, and still being funny and parodying.
Originally posted by Discrate
There is no debate on whether blackface was appropriate, because it was appropriate.
---
quote:Isn't doing a parody 'taking the piss out' of something. So, now you're saying they are not 'taking the piss' out of the J5? This is the opposite of what you said in your first post, quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
They were taking the piss, but not out of the jackson 5, out of themselfs. That's the whole point of the segment. People come and perform things and usually make fools of themselfs and they win prizes.
quote:Which it indeed was... (but on the same time insulting towards others)
Originally posted by Discrate
The skit that was performed was meant to be humerous, it is a parody of the jackson 5.
Whether or not they make a fool of themselfs doing the parody is a mute point though.
------------
Anyways and again, if you fail to see what the fuzz is about and why it can be seen as insulting and being racism, then you should realy look up from where that exact image comes from and study some American history (especially the American entertainment history).
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Th3rmal on 10-09-2009 at 10:13 AM
Whoever finds that racist, obviously havent been in Australia long enough to realise that racism isnt really an issue here.
Why? because we know that whoever is making the "racist" joke isnt serious, and its just a bit of fun; which frankly 95% of the people who I see can handle.
In my school, we have a diverse board of students. Whites, blacks, asians, etc etc, you name it, weve got it. Yet we never have a problem with racism. We recently got our year 12 t-shirts and were allowed to put a nickname on it; and you would be suprised with the names people put on them. One asian had "I ate your dog" and a black student had "Black magic", because frankly, problems in the form of offensive racist comments arent seen in our community. If you go and say something which some people consider racist, may it be "sup nigga" (dont get offended, its jsut an example) to a black person, they will most likely just say hi back. They arent gonna get all pissed nd shit and beat you up, thats just now how it is in australia.
Having said that, there are ALWAYS exceptions to everything. And in this case, its people who cant take light hearted jokes, or people who actually intentionally insult someones heritage directly. This, of course is not tolerable; but something such as this skit, in my opinion is just going along with the good attitude of australians and their ability to take a joke.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by segosa on 10-09-2009 at 10:31 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
also:
![[Image: niggerneo.jpg]](http://zupload.net/files/5/niggerneo.jpg)
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Jarrod on 10-09-2009 at 10:34 AM
quote:I feel that's it,
Originally posted by Th3rmal
Having said that, there are ALWAYS exceptions to everything. And in this case, its people who cant take light hearted jokes, or people who actually intentionally insult someones heritage directly. This, of course is not tolerable; but something such as this skit, in my opinion is just going along with the good attitude of australians and their ability to take a joke.
if they were insulting heritage directly then it's racist, since they weren't it could be considered offensive but it's not racist
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by CookieRevised on 10-09-2009 at 10:41 AM
quote:That does not mean it is not racism to the rest of the world though. It can mean however that those 95% of people don't have a problem with racism, or being racist, or take racism to lightly, or have a very different definition of racism, or frankly don't see a form of racism when it happens because it is seen as 'normal'.
Originally posted by Th3rmal
Whoever finds that racist, obviously havent been in Australia long enough to realise that racism isnt really an issue here. Why? because we know that whoever is making the "racist" joke isnt serious, and its just a bit of fun; which frankly 95% of the people who I see can handle.
quote:Because such stuff is not racism as far as I know. It does portray some typical usages or refers to their ethnical background, but it isn't racism as it does not insult anyone.
Originally posted by Th3rmal
One asian had "I ate your dog" and a black student had "Black magic", because frankly, problems in the form of offensive racist comments arent seen in our community.
Racism is insulting people. I don't see what's insulting about "black magic" and what's wrong about "I ate your dog" (dog being a delicasy in many Asian countries). So that doesn't say a thing about having no problems with racism in your school. The same with having many different nationalities doesn't mean a thing at all.
However "nigger" and such things are racism as such words (or typcial images in the case of that video) have a big insulting history behind it. If some guys would have printed that on their T-shirt (no matter what ethnic background they have), the school board will most likely say something about it (or at least should).
So, those things are very different and shows, imho, that some people realy do not know what the true definition of racism is or at least have a very distorted vision of it.
------
The "can't take a joke" argument don't hold up either. Everytime there is a discussion about racism that argument comes up. "Australians and their ability to take a joke"? It is not because a group of people find something funny that there isn't anything wrong about it. You know that the KKK found it funny to linch black people? Or that many of the SS found it funny to shoot Jews. Etc. They would say the same thing: "if you don't you probably can't take a good joke....". I'm not comparing Austrialans with those kind of people of course, but I only want to show that the argument of "can't take a joke" is realy misplaced and/or don't say anything at all about it being racism or not. It simply and only proofs that humor is objective, it does not proof anything about racism at all.
------
quote:Something which popped to my mind too.
Originally posted by segosa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
If you would ask any child/teenager they wouldn't see anything offensive about it because they don't know any better. If you would ask some other people who know where that image actually comes from you would get a whole different perspective.
quote:Maybe. But offensive because...?
Originally posted by Jarrod
I feel that's it,
if they were insulting heritage directly then it's racist, since they weren't it could be considered offensive but it's not racist
Offensive because they used an image which was used in the past for insulting black people? thus can be seen as racism I'd say...
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Jarrod on 10-09-2009 at 11:56 AM
quote:well they weren't attacking anybody IMO
Originally posted by wikipedia
Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
and
it was an impersonation
so based on the fact that racism deals with "capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" I really don't see it as relevant.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Menthix on 10-09-2009 at 12:21 PM
After watching the video: Racism? No. Bad taste? Yes. But they were rated appropriately for that and tbh, it seemed like yet another lame TV show in the first place.
Also, the guy at the end is taking it completely over the top by speaking for an entire country: "I just wanted to say on behalf of my country". He should have just said that's how he felt about it personally, him being from the US has nothing to do with his opinion.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by CookieRevised on 10-09-2009 at 12:33 PM
Jarrod, you're interpreting that definition wrong I think. Racism can include all kinds of ways/acts/handlings/use of symbols and also comes in different shapes, forms and levels.
Using certain images, symbols, etc can be racism too. And because those typical blackfaces where used to portray black people, and because blackfaces were used in the past to redicule black people, that act can be seen as racism by some.
quote:Which is _exactly_ what such pure black paint and afro wig represents and were used for in the past, and that bad image is _exactly_ what the fuzz is about.
Originally posted by Jarrod
so based on the fact that racism deals with "capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"...
If they weren't dressed up like that, but used eg: light brownish make up, real J5 wigs instead of the ones found at the local shop, there wouldn't be anybody taking offense.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by vaccination on 10-09-2009 at 02:09 PM
quote:Why would I want to watch people blacking up and singing Jackson 5 songs?
Originally posted by Discrate
I knew you didn't lol, as if you would.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Phillip on 10-09-2009 at 02:38 PM
It's sad how pathetic Americans can be. South Park did a send up of Steve Irwin with a stingray barb sticking out of his chest shortly after he passed away and did us Australians throw a tantrum..? No. I didn't even know what 'blackface' was till this appeared all over the news. All it was to me was 6 guys having a laugh. You cant apply foreign attitudes to Australian TV. Isn't it obvious that is was allowed to go to air because it didnt seem offensive..? And only after some American airhead (who incidently parodied black people himself) expressed offense did we bother to actually give a fuck..? I'm sick of all this American arse kissing.
Also I wouldn't bother arguing with Cookie anyone. Where he lives he is probably right but us Australians know that it's not like that here.
Can somebody just apologise to Rev. Jesse Jackson so we can be forgiven and move on?
![[Image: 1101apology.jpg]](http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8835/1101apology.jpg)
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Th3rmal
Whoever finds that racist, obviously havent been in Australia long enough to realise that racism isnt really an issue here.
Why? because we know that whoever is making the "racist" joke isnt serious, and its just a bit of fun; which frankly 95% of the people who I see can handle.
In my school, we have a diverse board of students. Whites, blacks, asians, etc etc, you name it, weve got it. Yet we never have a problem with racism. We recently got our year 12 t-shirts and were allowed to put a nickname on it; and you would be suprised with the names people put on them. One asian had "I ate your dog" and a black student had "Black magic", because frankly, problems in the form of offensive racist comments arent seen in our community. If you go and say something which some people consider racist, may it be "sup nigga" (dont get offended, its jsut an example) to a black person, they will most likely just say hi back. They arent gonna get all pissed nd shit and beat you up, thats just now how it is in australia.
Having said that, there are ALWAYS exceptions to everything. And in this case, its people who cant take light hearted jokes, or people who actually intentionally insult someones heritage directly. This, of course is not tolerable; but something such as this skit, in my opinion is just going along with the good attitude of australians and their ability to take a joke.
Exactly, people just don't understand th3rmal how it is in australia. We don't take race seriously, we are past all this YOUR RACIST LOOK HOW RACIST YOU ARE, YOUR DRIVING A BLACK CAR AND YOUR WHITE thing. We arnt politically correct, and this is how the rest of the world should be. Unfortunatly the united states still has a problem with race and will have one for ever i think, they will never get too ur level.
lol i was wondering when CookieRevised was going to arrive in here. My politically correct himself.
quote:
The "can't take a joke" argument don't hold up either. Everytime there is a discussion about racism that argument comes up. "Australians and their ability to take a joke"? It is not because a group of people find something funny that there isn't anything wrong about it. You know that the KKK found it funny to linch black people? Or that many of the SS found it funny to shoot Jews. Etc. They would say the same thing: "if you don't you probably can't take a good joke....". I'm not comparing Austrialans with those kind of people of course, but I only want to show that the argument of "can't take a joke" is realy misplaced and/or don't say anything at all about it being racism or not. It simply and only proofs that humor is objective, it does not proof anything about racism at all.
Australia isn't here to please the rest of the world especially america. We don't take race seriously. The rest of the world can stick to there policial correct society and we will stick to our non political correct society.
quote:
Originally posted by Menthix
After watching the video: Racism? No. Bad taste? Yes. But they were rated appropriately for that and tbh, it seemed like yet another lame TV show in the first place.
Also, the guy at the end is taking it completely over the top by speaking for an entire country: "I just wanted to say on behalf of my country". He should have just said that's how he felt about it personally, him being from the US has nothing to do with his opinion.
It was a segment in a show. The show is a variety show that is just one bit of it. The segment is meant to be lame, the performances are meant to be totally crap, that's the funny bit. The show is actually a very popular show in australia, it is back for a 2 show reunion, previously it ran for 20 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Phillip
It's sad how pathetic Americans can be. South Park did a send up of Steve Irwin with a stingray barb sticking out of his chest shortly after he passed away and did us Australians throw a tantrum..? No. I didn't even know what 'blackface' was till this appeared all over the news. All it was to me was 6 guys having a laugh. You cant apply foreign attitudes to Australian TV. Isn't it obvious that is was allowed to go to air because it didnt seem offensive..? And only after some American airhead (who incidently parodied black people himself) expressed offense did we bother to actually give a fuck..? I'm sick of all this American arse kissing.
Also I wouldn't bother arguing with Cookie anyone. Where he lives he is probably right but us Australians know that it's not like that here.
Can somebody just apologise to Rev. Jesse Jackson so we can be forgiven and move on?
The funniest thing is the americans actually think we care what they think lol.
Even australias politicians agree the show was not racist.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by ipab on 10-09-2009 at 08:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
Australia isn't here to please the rest of the world especially america. We don't take race seriously. The rest of the world can stick to there policial correct society and we will stick to our non political correct society.
Way to speak for an entire country...
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Rolando on 10-09-2009 at 09:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by segosa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
also:
hahahaha.
On a more serious note racism sucks, but idk if they're racist in Australia. Never been there.. yet.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by CookieRevised on 10-09-2009 at 09:50 PM
quote:lol, we balance eachother out, no? YingYang and that sort of crazy stuff.... So in the end it is pure science that we would never agree on such things
Originally posted by Discrate
lol i was wondering when CookieRevised was going to arrive in here. My politically correct himself.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Chrono on 10-09-2009 at 10:10 PM
YingYang != science
RE: RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-09-2009 at 10:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ipab
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
Australia isn't here to please the rest of the world especially america. We don't take race seriously. The rest of the world can stick to there policial correct society and we will stick to our non political correct society.
Way to speak for an entire country...
I am not really speaking for the entire country (even though i could because it is the majority of peoples views. I am just saying how it is. Look at th3rmal in his post he said basically the same thing. "we don't take race seriously"
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-10-2009 at 10:36 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1084394769627714346&hl=en#
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by John Anderton on 10-10-2009 at 11:52 AM
quote:Despite all the stuff in the news here about Indians being ill-treated, I really don't give a shit.. There are racists everywhere. You have nice and helpful people everywhere as well.. generalizing and saying a country is racist simply because of the actions of a handful of dickheads is wrong.
Originally posted by Jarrod
Is australia really racist or is it a misconception
Then again, it is said that a country should be judged on the basis of how they treat their guests.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by foaly on 10-10-2009 at 04:31 PM
There is racism directly in the topic title...
Although Australians may technically not be a race...
But assuming that you can call a country racist is generalizing and that is the start of racism...
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by CookieRevised on 10-10-2009 at 06:47 PM
[MASSIVE RANT WARNING.... PLEASE IGNORE IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT ]
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED 
quote:I'm not realy
Originally posted by Discrate
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1084394769627714346&hl=en#
about that video. More like 
, because that video in itself is very biased and conveniently only shows certain aspects and is edited in such a way that they portray the people and the racism subject in the way you see it.I mean, if that somewhat portrays your definition, experience, beliefs, etc about the term and word 'racism' then yes, I can understand where you got your arguments from and stuff.
"What is racism?"
"Eh... Eh... Eh..."
"Can you give an example?"
"No, but it is everywhere."
"Like if he is a gay and I'm strait, that can be racism"
"...."
I mean, wtf?
Then the video goes further and shows that it can be a very biased thing. However, you can 'proof' anything with such a documentary, especially one where they ask the questions in a certain way, but leave out other equaly important questions.
In the second half of the documantery they start out with the assumption that racism means the believe that one race is superior than the other. And that is correct. But then they conveniently forget to make a very important distinction: One ethnic group can indeed be better than the other in certain areas (they take the basketball example*), but that is not racism in itself at all. Racism is the believe that one race is superior in _everything_ (and thus you hate the 'other' inferiour one and/or ridicule them). And there is the big difference, "in everything", and the big (and convenient) mistake they make in that documentary.
And since they (conveniently) leave that important difference out, they can (conveniently) proof that racism is very biased, has double standards, etc.
* they go on about basketball for like a minute. But then they go on for like 10 mionutes about why white people would be better at tests. Well, the reason why most people agree that black people would be better in basketball is because they see it with their own eyes, they know it for a fact.
Of course, if you ask them why white people would be better at tests, than most people wouldn't know what to answer. Because is it actually true? How would those interviewed people know? They don't, and thus can not answer that question strait away. They didn't knew it and thus they can't answer that question. But that is all there is to it. That's logic, not a "double standard".
And this goes on and on. Very easy to make your point in that way I'd say. However, you could simply do the opposite too: showing 1 minute of video about how people don't know why white people do better tests, then quickly foget about it and burry it under 10 minutes about people struggling to come up with an answer about why black people are better at basketball... Then what would that 'proof'?
After all that they say: "see how biased and double standard racism is"... But they never asked the question "why is it then that black people are better in basketball". Why didn't they ask it? Because those same interviewed people probably wouldn't know what to say either. It is just the same, but it is conveniently left out of this documentary just to proof that it seem to be ok to call black people better in basketball, but it is not ok to say that white people are good at something else, hence the so called double standard.
Belief me that those interviewed people and the way that documentary has been made is far from how other people see or understand what racism is, at least from my small experience here in Western Europe. But as I said in the beginning, if that is indeed the thing you belief and understand of how most people think about racism, using it lightly (and often for no reason at all) and act upon it, then yes, I can perfectly understand you and I would even agree with you on some points if I would follow that same train of thoughts.
But for me, here, racism is something far more concrete and it does mean something and isn't something vague or undefinable. And in 99% of cases I've seen the usage of the word is genuine and real racism is going on when it is 'shouted'. (However there are of course always people here who act in just the same manner as shown in that video though and/or shouting "racism" to everything and everybody, but those are a very small minority).
So, if that video is an attempt to show how America realy thinks about it and how they use the word 'racism', double standards, etc, than I agree with most stuff you said. But I also like to believe (and hope) that is not how the majority of 'America' actually thinks. And I like to believe that most people have at least some more concrete knowledge of what racism is and can actually identify it when it happens, than the ones in that documentary, and as a result do not use the word lightly or shout 'racism' every 5 minutes for no or the wrong reasons. But maybe I'm too naïve also (and maybe I have seen too many times how small 'innocent' jokes and things can grow over the years to something far worse. It always starts with 'taking a good hearted joke' and before you know it you live in a place where it is normal to piss on people and where it wouldn't even be noticed because everybody does it so it is 'normal')...
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-10-2009 at 09:55 PM
Rofl i just recieved a pm of some new member who looks like he just signed up to pm me this wtf.
quote:
Today at 01:17 AM, MichaelEider wrote:
You are one of the countless number of people who completely miss the point on the issue. The issue is not the intent to be racist- it's the perception of racism. Whether you like it or not, both are about as bad as each other- and you want a reality check- you are not the judge. The judges are from people all over the world who have cast this judgement on Australia. You can choose to ignore their views- that will only exacerbate Australia's image as racist, generally backward, and culturally (certainly comically) unsophisticated. Your point about people being ashamed of their race if they take offence to being called black is so stupid it defies belief. Why would you even refer to people by their colour anyway?
Don't get me wrong, I dont think Australia is a very racist country but there is an undertone of racism reflected in the jokes, gestures, etc that can easily escalate into something more sinister- think Pauline Hanson, Cronulla race riots, Indian students bashing, the former head of Telstra complaining of racism in Australia- is Australia getting the message? The best thing you could do is try to understand the viewpoints of others who are offended by this instead of closing your mind to the world. Afterall, in this globalized world, Australia will not get far if it cannot relate to citizens from other countries. Our perspective cannot afford to be as isolated as our geography.
First off, before i reply to anything you have said, i would just like to make it known you are a complete dickhead. lol.
That out of the way, basically everything you said was stupid, ill pick at some of the most stupidist things.
quote:
You can choose to ignore their views- that will only exacerbate Australia's image as racist, generally backward, and culturally (certainly comically) unsophisticated.
I am going to assume you are american because americans seems to think everyone cares what they think, so if you think australia is racist, good on you champ. How about actually visiting before you cast judgement? Anyway i laugh at you saying "australia is racist" By saying that, you are saying EVERYONE in australia is racist. I havent seen any new born babies being racist, have you?
"generally backward" How are we generally backward? do we drive around in horse and cart? Australia is rank 2nd behind norway on the Human Development Index which measures of life expectancy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide. Australia is the only developed G20 nation in the world to avoid recession. Australia is the only economy in the world that has grown for the past 18 years. Australian schools are some of the best of the world. I can't believe our backwardness, oh it's so backward thanks for pointing that out from your computer in Kabul Afghanistan. lol.
quote:
"culturally (certainly comically) unsophisticated"
Again you have no idea about australia and it's obvious you have never been here. You need to get out a bit more and stop watching movies. Let me tell you our culture is way more sophisticated then some countries will ever be.
quote:
I dont think Australia is a very racist country but there is an undertone of racism reflected in the jokes, gestures, etc that can easily escalate into something more sinister- think Pauline Hanson, Cronulla race riots, Indian students bashing, the former head of Telstra complaining of racism in Australia
"I dont think Australia is a very racist country"
Yes you do, you just said up there previously.
" think Pauline Hanson"
The woman who wanted to turn down the immigration a little bit and actually let skilled immigrants into the country, OH THE RACISM OH GOD.
"Cronulla race riots"
If you move to a country where your race and culture isn't the majority race and culture there and you then start to trouble of cause you are going to get backlash.
The riot didn't start because people woke up and said "hmm i don't like middle eastern people, lets riot and bash them" there is a pre lude leading up to it. It all started on the beach in cronulla. A muslim lady was drowning, so white life guards went out to save her (thats there job) anyway when they draged her to shore, her muslim husband and friends bashed the life guards for touching there wife. This wasn't the first time life guards were bashed, they were bashed on numerous occasions. The locals had enough so they started to protest, till the middle eastern people came out and fighting with the protestors, then that made the locals snap and they just bashed any middle eastern person they could find. I am not saying what they did was right, but if you poke a bear with a stick, what do you think will happen? the bear won't eat you?
"Indian students bashing"
You make it sound like thousands of indians are being bashed. There is about 5 cases of it, Most of them while walking home alone at night. You don't do that. You don't catch a train at 2 am in the morning. These indians were most likely not bashed because they were indian it was just random. Some of the cases that were confirmed to be racial were done by other students from other countries, which was also confirmed.
" the former head of Telstra complaining of racism in Australia"
Hahaha this is the most funniest of all. Do you know why he was complaining of racism? Because when he was leaving a newspaper wrote "adios amigo" in a article about him. OH THE RACISM, THERE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE THATS RACIST.
quote:
Originally posted by John Anderton
quote:Despite all the stuff in the news here about Indians being ill-treated, I really don't give a shit.. There are racists everywhere. You have nice and helpful people everywhere as well.. generalizing and saying a country is racist simply because of the actions of a handful of dickheads is wrong.
Originally posted by Jarrod
Is australia really racist or is it a misconception
Then again, it is said that a country should be judged on the basis of how they treat their guests.
But for the last bit, in any country you go to, it can't be guaranteed that some people won't start shit with you. Like if i went to India and go bashed, i wouldn't say India is racist just because one person bashed me lol.
RE: Is australia really racist or is it a misconception by Discrate on 10-22-2009 at 01:44 PM
I know this thread is old, but i thought i would post this video because it sums up alot of how i feel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7e24vmyhPk