Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize - Printable Version
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Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by ipab on 10-09-2009 at 04:06 PM
Yeah... Never saw this one coming. Just woke up and found out that it was so. I have nothing against the guy, I think he's done a fair bit of good in fact... but I'm not sure where this peace prize comes in... People like the Dalai Lama, who spend their entire lives preaching it, seem more fitting for the prize.
It seems like Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize makes the award lose it's significance...
Your thoughts?
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Phillip on 10-09-2009 at 04:12 PM
It is because he is black.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by toddy on 10-09-2009 at 04:17 PM
quote:sad, but true
Originally posted by Phillip
It is because he is black.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by John Anderton on 10-09-2009 at 06:04 PM
He probably negotiated a peace settlement in Gaza that only the Nobel community knows about.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Volv on 10-10-2009 at 03:33 PM
The Nobel Peace Prize has been historically awarded as a motivator to follow through on actions, ideals, or commitments rather than for something already done or accomplished.
It's not a matter of the prize losing significance. It's the significance of the prize which aims to influence Obama into fulfilling his promises and commitments to peace.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by CookieRevised on 10-10-2009 at 06:56 PM
What Volv said...
But, my first thought was "WTF?" too though (still is a bit). Wasn't there anybody else to give the prize too lol (not that I don't want Obama to have it though)?
But honestly I think any US president would sort of do what Obama is doing now (concearning peace and such stuff) and fixing the things needed to be fixing after the mess that Bush has left. Quite frankly, you need to be a big idiot of a president not to, imho. So in a way, maybe it is a bit cheap saying he is the 'new savior' etc etc. He's just happens to be in the right place at the right time. He sure tries though.... Now lets see if his efforts do some actual good.
blah... dunno.... But still, congratz Obama 
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-20-2009 at 12:10 AM
I would have to disagree with Cookie & Volv. Obama has done NOTHING to deserve that award.
The Nobel Peace Prize may be at times awarded to those that motivate, but those people motivate with integrity & follow through with what they've set forth to accomplish. Further more, the nomination was due 10 days after Obama became President of the US. As of that date, the only thing he motivated was "change". And for those naive enough to believe it without researching his past, it seemed awesome. Well keep drinking the cool aid. Cause here we are almost a year later and all we have to show for Obama is a $dollar worth 30% less due to the huge expansion of our debt, which in turn negatively affects countries across the world.
Obama disregards the very founding documents the country he controls was founded on and became great by.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by CookieRevised on 10-20-2009 at 06:24 AM
You're forgetting that it is/was a world wide (bank) crisis. The dollar would be worth far less and far more companies would have been bankrupt, etc etc if Obama (or anyone in his position) didn't do what he did. The reason why it became like that and that your country is now in great debt in the first place (like so many other countries) isn't Obama's fault either but rather bad policy from the previous president(s)/governement/world economy leaders. Be glad that the dollar is only 30% less worth after a year instead of 70% or whatever and that you're not in such a nation wide crisis like it happened sometimes in the past because it easily went that way for a while.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-20-2009 at 06:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Phillip
It is because he is black.
Exactly. He only got it because he is the first black president. Lets call it racist.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-21-2009 at 08:46 PM
quote:Ug. Here I go getting off topic.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
You're forgetting that it is/was a world wide (bank) crisis. The dollar would be worth far less and far more companies would have been bankrupt, etc etc if Obama (or anyone in his position) did what he does. The reason why it became like that and that your country is now in great debt in the first place (like so many other countries) isn't Obama's fault either but rather bad policy from the previous president(s)/governement/world economy leaders. Be glad that the dollar is only 30% less worth after a year instead of 70% or whatever and that you're not in such a nation wide crisis like it happened sometimes in the past because it easly went that way for a while.
Bank crisis's no longer just happen, they are scientifically created (Like many in the past), for reasons I won't get into. Our system was built so that if/when someone screws up, they liquidate their assets & the market will even out and correct itself. The dollar is not worth 30% less because of the banks, its worth less because of the 10 trillion dollars the FED printed within the past year, part of which was for Obama's purposed bailouts. Obama personally knows nothing about economics and he's making horrible economic decisions by listening to czars & peers that have deep hatred for free market economics & true honest capitalism.
I do agree though, even before 2008/Obama, America was far too deep in debt from horrific policies & unprecedent spending. USA's yearly budget increased over 40% since 1996. Between the FED being unchecked & untouchable, government meddling policies & regulations causing huge blowback & the core foundation of America being dehumanized & desensitized, we won't last long if we stay on this road.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Rolando on 10-21-2009 at 09:34 PM
Obama sucks. Like the man needed his ego to grow even more. He's so full of himself. Full of lies.
He's done some good stuff, like he's fighting for equality for minorities (Hispanics and homosexuals mostly), but he's also lied. A lot. And prolonged the war.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-22-2009 at 02:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolando
Obama sucks. Like the man needed his ego to grow even more. He's so full of himself. Full of lies.
He's done some good stuff, like he's fighting for equality for minorities (Hispanics and homosexuals mostly), but he's also lied. A lot. And prolonged the war.
What did he lie about?
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Rolando on 10-22-2009 at 03:47 PM
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-22-2009 at 03:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolando
http://tinyurl.com/ygssonw
All i see is a few crappy links to people who think they know what they are talking about with no sources to backup there claims. None of these sites are even a recognized media outlet that i could even remotely trust.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Rolando on 10-22-2009 at 06:02 PM
For one, http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25491609-954,00.html
Promises he made that he hasn't followed through with. Though I guess Volv & Cookie are right. Maybe they did this to actually get him to do stuff... but still. Was there seriously no one more deserving already? :/
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-22-2009 at 10:48 PM
quote:Maybe it was a bribe to sign the below treaty..
Originally posted by Rolando
...Though I guess Volv & Cookie are right. Maybe they did this to actually get him to do stuff...
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/1...openhagen-2009.pdf
quote:If all you've done to answer this question is click on Rolando's link, then you neither want to know the answer to that question, nor would you actually acknowledge facts if presented. MSNBC is the only reliable & credible media source, right?
Originally posted by Discrate
All i see is a few crappy links to people who think they know what they are talking about with no sources to backup there claims. None of these sites are even a recognized media outlet that i could even remotely trust.
quote:What subcategory would you like first? Foreign Policy? Health Care? The American Media? Our economy? The bailouts/artificial/temporary stimulus funds? Take your pick & I'll show you what the 'in bed w/government' media sources won't.
Originally posted by Discrate
What did he lie about?
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by John Anderton on 10-23-2009 at 09:56 AM
I'm still waiting for the "change" Obama was supposed to bring.
The SNL spoof on him (the week before the spoof about him winning the Nobel Prize) having done nothing was totally true (and funny.. well of course it was funny, its SNL.. 
)
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-23-2009 at 10:40 AM
Well if infact obama has lied about numerous things, it sucks to be amerinca lol.
I'd also like to point out that just because someone said they would do something and they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean there not going to do it.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-23-2009 at 12:52 PM
quote:He isn't. There are a few prophecies he wouldn't be able to fulfill.
Originally posted by tony
I think Obama is the Antichrist.
quote:Although there are over 100 documented lies from Obama in the past year, I am still damn proud to be an American & I strongly believe the American people will stand up and demand the liberty & freedom that made our country great. Soon enough the founding documents & ideas of our framers will hold precedent once again.
Originally posted by Discrate
Well if infact obama has lied about numerous things, it sucks to be amerinca lol.
quote:Denial’s a river ya know? Ohwell. Keep drinking that cool aid.
Originally posted by Discrate
I'd also like to point out that just because someone said they would do something and they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean there not going to do it.
Albert Einstein once said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it." This is why Obama will not accomplish anything good or productive with long lasting effects.
Additionally, it's not just that Obama hasn't accomplished anything yet. He's now back peddling on some very big promises made during his campaign. Of course, few bothered to ask what that "hype"... errr I mean "Hope & Change" actually entailed. Although we do know now.. Radical Marxist ideas & dreams of transforming America into a Nationalized Socialist country. Again, which is why he will not accomplish anything.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-24-2009 at 09:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
quote:You shouldn't have insulted his great country of freedom and opportunity!!!11
Originally posted by Discrate
You negged me for not agreeing with you, infact i didn't really not agree with you, i asked you a few questions and you neg repped me for it rofl. Another "you're an idiot, if you don't agree with me" person on the forum
All you are is one of those people who are like "OHHH IT'S A BIG CONSPIRACY THERE LYING!" "THEY ARE TRYING TO DO HEALTH CARE REFORM TO MAKE HEALTH CARE BETTER, WE HAVE TO STOP THEM!!!"
Pretty funny actually. Thank god i don't live in america where even the smallest thing triggers mayhem. People are calling obama a nazi just because he wants health care reform rofl.
Yeh hahaha.
He's not the only one, there is plenty of these "THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO DESTROY US! AND IS TRYING TO STUFF EVERYTHING UP" americans.
RE: RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-24-2009 at 05:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
quote:No. You received a negative rep rating because of ignorant, immature & unintelligent comments like this. Man up & deal with it.
Originally posted by Discrate
You negged me for not agreeing with you, infact i didn't really not agree with you, i asked you a few questions and you neg repped me for it rofl. Another "you're an idiot, if you don't agree with me" person on the forum
All you are is one of those people who are like "OHHH IT'S A BIG CONSPIRACY THERE LYING!" "THEY ARE TRYING TO DO HEALTH CARE REFORM TO MAKE HEALTH CARE BETTER, WE HAVE TO STOP THEM!!!"
Pretty funny actually. Thank god i don't live in america where even the smallest thing triggers mayhem. People are calling obama a nazi just because he wants health care reform rofl.
Man up and deal with the fact that i don't agree with you and there is other people that don't agree with you. It's obvious you can't deal with the fact that other people don't agree with you, hence why you are acting like this. I didn't even really disagree with you, i just questioned your statement. You can't call someone ignorant when what you are talking about isn't fact. I could call you ignorant for believing all this "lies" bullshit.
I would love to see what would happen face to face if someone disagreed with you, you seem like one of those people who would throw a tantrum because they don't agree with you. As i said in my pm to you, you're one of those "If you don't agree with me, then you are an idiot, because im right about everything"
People are allowed to disagree with you, you don't have the right to hurl abuse at them for disagreeing.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by andrey on 10-24-2009 at 07:48 PM
quote:Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The smallest thing? 'Just because he wants health care? Do you honestly not know of all the other issues? Apparently not. You haven't heard about the policies he's trying to pass. The day to day things he says that contradict what was said the day before. The amount of debt we're now in because of him. Or how the horrible policies of his administration go against America's founding documents. They completely ignore the checks & balances. Do you honestly not know this? Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional). Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-24-2009 at 08:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
quote:Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The smallest thing? 'Just because he wants health care? Do you honestly not know of all the other issues? Apparently not. You haven't heard about the policies he's trying to pass. The day to day things he says that contradict what was said the day before. The amount of debt we're now in because of him. Or how the horrible policies of his administration go against America's founding documents. They completely ignore the checks & balances. Do you honestly not know this? Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional). Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
Exactly. I am glad you summed it up like this, this is what i wanted to say but of course i can't be bothered plus i wouldn't be able to put it in form like that
This is this conspiracy crap i was talking about.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-25-2009 at 01:39 AM
quote:Again, stop pretending you are more aware then me of all the legislation & bills the American government is trying to pass. If you actually look at the stuff Obama, his administration, the congress and Obama's elected advisors are saying... you wouldn't be calling it 'conspiracy crap'
Originally posted by Discrate
This is this conspiracy crap i was talking about.
quote:Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
Originally posted by Discrate
People are allowed to disagree with you, you don't have the right to hurl abuse at them for disagreeing.
quote:Yep, Bush is fucked up too, I won't argue against that. What's worse is that Obama is continuting to follow his path. Guantonimo bay was kept over, despite Obama promising to close it as soon as he became president.
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
quote:Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
Originally posted by andrey
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
If you truly look at what Obama believes, who he studied under, who he has appointed as advisers... you would worry too.
Often people forget the real reason for Nations. The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them. Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either. Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians). Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by wacky on 10-25-2009 at 04:09 AM
quote:you do realize that these ARE things he wants but there are quite many obstacles before reaching such goals.. honestly, I'd love to see you as the President of the United-States.. I'd love to see how well you would succeed. By the way, he still is trying to close it. They plan on doing it by January. Maybe it won't happen by then. Maybe it'll take longer.. so what? he's doing that he can. ''Mr Obama ordered the detention camp to be shut on his second day in office but administration officials have run into numerous legal, political and diplomatic hurdles.'' but ya.. lets just ignore that part because he hasn't succeeded yet.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Guantonimo bay was kept over, despite Obama promising to close it as soon as he became president.
quote:perhaps.. I do agree that his is a little on the left side but he's not at the complete end of the left wing. He's simply trying to care more for the middle class and lower. Since you don't seem to care about the people who have less money and can't afford going to the doctors, you're probably a wealthy person. Does that mean you have to be selfish? I truly hope not..
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
quote:my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
anyway, point is, there are two sides to all of this. You can't just be closed minded and only want to see one side of everything. Yes, there are things he hasn't done. Some he hasn't succeeded at, some which are in progress but he has accomplished some of them. Don't ignore that part.
I found a website that's pretty interesting. Is it reliable? I don't know.. maybe. But it's still interesting:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/
quote:but please don't try to speak for everyone in your country. That's just being very ignorant, close-minded and selfish.. and no, your country isn't better than any other so you don't need to say the whole thing 'United States of America'. It's like me saying 'Canada of North America of America'
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them.
no.. just the United States is fine 
(and yes.. I do know its USA, you just don't need to spell the whole thing out)
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-25-2009 at 06:52 AM
quote:
"Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
"
I am disagreeing with your opinion that he lies about tons of things. So there is disagree and agree. And that's all that your writing is, your opinion. Stop acting like what you write is fact and everyone thinks it.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-25-2009 at 08:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
quote:
"Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
"
I am disagreeing with your opinion that he lies about tons of things. So there is disagree and agree. And that's all that your writing is, your opinion. Stop acting like what you write is fact and everyone thinks it.
It's not like asking "Do you think abortion is right or wrong?". That question has room for personal opinion. Asking "Has Obama lied?" is a simple yes or no question where agreeing or disagreeing with opinion is not possible. You can't disagree with documented lies (Obama quote vs. actual facts) And I've asked you what topic you've wanted me to show you proof on, yet you don't answer me.
First, Obama promised he would close down Guantanamo Bay as soon as he became President. It's now 10 months later & Guantanamo Bay is still open & taking more prisoners.
Obama promised to negotiate Health Care Reform on C-SPAN so America could have a real say on the reform... but they all ended up having the meetings behind closed doors. The first bill was written by a special interest group & the second bill was written by corrupt politicians with small details int he bill that benefit his lobbyists & others that contribute to his political campaigns.
http://www.breitbart.tv/naked-emperor-news-obamas...-mayhem-it-caused/
So here's a few articles you can educate yourself on.
Fact-Checking the President on Health Insurance
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203...9501904118682.html
CBS exposes Obama administration lies about blocking Fox News (Obama trying to shut down the media)
http://www.examiner.com/x-22564-Des-Moines-Conser...-blocking-Fox-News
quote:Or Obama (like many previous President's) could simply use the power of "Executive Orders".
Originally posted by wacky
you do realize that these ARE things he wants but there are quite many obstacles before reaching such goals.. honestly, I'd love to see you as the President of the United-States.. I'd love to see how well you would succeed. By the way, he still is trying to close it. They plan on doing it by January. Maybe it won't happen by then. Maybe it'll take longer.. so what? he's doing that he can. ''Mr Obama ordered the detention camp to be shut on his second day in office but administration officials have run into numerous legal, political and diplomatic hurdles.'' but ya.. lets just ignore that part because he hasn't succeeded yet.
quote:/sigh. I'm all for assisting the lower class & I personally volunteer a lot of my time. But there comes a point when we need to acknowledge the fact that the "Welfare state in America" is severely taken advantage of & in the long run ends up doing more harm than good. Check out the book "When Helping Hurts: Alleviating Poverty Without Hurting the Poor."
Originally posted by wacky
perhaps.. I do agree that his is a little on the left side but he's not at the complete end of the left wing. He's simply trying to care more for the middle class and lower. Since you don't seem to care about the people who have less money and can't afford going to the doctors, you're probably a wealthy person. Does that mean you have to be selfish? I truly hope not..
50 years ago the poverty rate in America was at roughly 23%. By 1973 the poverty rate was cut in half, decreased to the all time low of nearly 11%. Around 1070-1975 is when America drastically began to pump more & more money into it's Welfare State. One would think that if we provided more money to help, that 11% would go down even further... but it did the opposite. As more money was given it increased by an additional 5% within 10 years. Between 1985 to 2007, the poverty rate in America has ranged from 12-16%.
quote:This branches out into two separate issues. "Health Care Cost" vs. "Health Insurance Cost/availability". Doctors, clinics & hospitals now have to charge more, due to reason that should be looked at & fixed before total reform. Medical Malpractice Lawsuits for example. They wont address the issues with that, because 1/2 the politicians & their campaign contributers are attorneys. Or Government regulations & restrictions lifted. In almost 4/5 of all the states, the federal government limits who can sell insurance in the state. There are over 1200 insurance companies in America, yet the states like California are only allowed to offer 6.
Originally posted by wacky
my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.
Many states in the US offer their own type of assistance with health care, without any federal oversight or control. The Constitution of the United States does NOT give the 'Federal Government' any control to control or even monkey with the private sector health care system. If it's such an issue, the States can work with their legal residents to either create assistance with health care insurance for the poor or tweak the system to fix kinks.
quote:Okay I've been very open minded about what Obama has done in the past 10 months... nothing productive for America. Obama & his wife fly across the country in separate planes for the 2016 Olympic decision & then his administration lays of 8% of the white house staff due to lack of money... hmm...
Originally posted by wacky
anyway, point is, there are two sides to all of this. You can't just be closed minded and only want to see one side of everything. Yes, there are things he hasn't done. Some he hasn't succeeded at, some which are in progress but he has accomplished some of them. Don't ignore that part.
quote:Yep I have that link saved in my bookmarks.
Originally posted by wacky
I found a website that's pretty interesting. Is it reliable? I don't know.. maybe. But it's still interesting:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/
quote:Excuse me? I am damn proud of my country as a whole. In a forum widely used by people all over the world, I will call my country by it's full & rightful name if I wish too. "I'm not saying America is better then you" and that is the end of that topic.
Originally posted by wacky
but please don't try to speak for everyone in your country. That's just being very ignorant, close-minded and selfish.. and no, your country isn't better than any other so you don't need to say the whole thing 'United States of America'. It's like me saying 'Canada of North America of America'
I'm not speaking for everyone in the United States of America. I don't have too either.
1)When over a million people from all 50 states, different political parties, races, nationalities, religions, travel to Washington DC in protest of what the government is trying to do... I'd say Obama should back off a bit & take alittle more time to listen to the people that he works for. Am I wrong?
2) The polls tell the whole story: Barack Obama sees worst poll rating drop in 50 years
2)The Federal Government literally can not reform or even touch America's health care system. That right is not listed in the General Welfare clause or any other article/section of our constitution. Bam, leave it up to the individual states, the private sector and the American people to decide that is truly needed.
RE: RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Tochjo on 10-25-2009 at 09:32 AM
quote:I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in this discussion, but I'd like to point out that you can scroll down that list and look at 25 other pages as well. It's not because point 6 to 14 have received no action that the other 486 points haven't either
Originally posted by Pr0xY
500 promises & after almost a whole year in office... only 5 have received any sort of action (3 still in the works, 2 that Obama compromised on).
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Discrate on 10-25-2009 at 09:47 AM
quote:
Excuse me? I am damn proud of my country as a whole. In a forum widely used by people all over the world, I will call my country by it's full & rightful name if I wish too. "I'm not saying America is better then you" and that is the end of that topic.
lol, i agree with wacky, why wouldn't you just say the united states? It would be like calling my country The Commonwealth of Australia whenever i talk about it, it's just not needed. It obviously gave the impression to wacky that you think your country is better then any other.
RE: RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by vaccination on 10-25-2009 at 10:47 AM
quote:rofl, a yes or no question can't be agreed/disagreed with?
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Asking "Has Obama lied?" is a simple yes or no question where agreeing or disagreeing with opinion is not possible.
Question: is Discrate hot?
Answers1: Yes.
Answer2: No.
Answer2 disagrees with Answer1, but the answers were still yes or no.
I know what you're trying to say, but don't make silly comments like that, lul.
---- Now that is out of the way ----
You're saying that the statement 'Obama lied' is a prove-able fact with only one answer[in your opinion, that answer is: yes]. Unfortunately for you, and as we have seen admirably demonstrated already there is most definitely a lot of room to argue the 'statement'. Just think about it for a second, this is clearly not fact. Let's try to determine what "lying" is, and whether the fact he has spent time and effort in putting things into motion(which he has, as already demonstrated) counts as a successful act. I mean, yeah you can take the view that anything that hasn't been completed fully is a complete fail, but that seems slightly ignorant, don't you think?
You need to realise that things don't happen overnight, remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. I also agree, with Discrate on the healthcare thing: what the fuck is wrong with you?
quote:Abortion is right, now that is a fact.
It's not like asking "Do you think abortion is right or wrong?".
RE: RE: RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-25-2009 at 05:58 PM
quote:Looks like I was wrong on that one. Yesterday when I checked that site the first page only had five and page two, three & four were blank. I assumed the website had sorted them all & did not check the rest. Thanks Tochjo.
Originally posted by Tochjo
quote:I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in this discussion, but I'd like to point out that you can scroll down that list and look at 25 other pages as well. It's not because point 6 to 14 have received no action that the other 486 points haven't either
Originally posted by Pr0xY
500 promises & after almost a whole year in office... only 5 have received any sort of action (3 still in the works, 2 that Obama compromised on).
quote:Yep. I usually check snopes (along with others) as one way to find out if certain things are true or not.
Originally posted by Spunky
snopes dispels a lot of myths surrounding these "lies"
quote:Okay I understand.
Originally posted by Discrate
lol, i agree with wacky, why wouldn't you just say the united states? It would be like calling my country The Commonwealth of Australia whenever i talk about it, it's just not needed. It obviously gave the impression to wacky that you think your country is better then any other.
The one time may have rightfully given that impression, but I had only typed the full name of the country once out of all the other times where I just said "America" or "United States". When taking that into consideration, I feel it was a very tedious thing to bring up & the benefit of the doubt should be given. Especially on a forum where the vast majority of users are in other countries besides America.
quote:Vaccination, it's not silly, it's a very solid argument if you really think about it. What's silly is you're quoting one line from a paragraph, taken it out of context & trying to prove a point.
Originally posted by vaccination
rofl, a yes or no question can't be agreed/disagreed with?
Question: is Discrate hot?
Answers1: Yes.
Answer2: No.
Answer2 disagrees with Answer1, but the answers were still yes or no.
I know what you're trying to say, but don't make silly comments like that, lul.
Physical attractiveness is a perception, dependent on three factors: universal perceptions common to all human cultures, cultural and social aspects and individual subjective preferences. Your comparison does not work.
There are four basic types of questions: Factual; Convergent; Divergent; and Evaluative. "Has Obama lied?" is a 'Factual' question. Straight forward answers based on obvious facts or awareness. Example: "What is the name of the Shakespeare play about the Prince of Denmark?" The answer is "Hamlet". It's a yes or no, right or wrong answer.
"Is Discrate hot?" is an 'Evaluative' question. Some guys like larger breasts while others like medium. Some girls like guys with longer hair while others like guys who are bald. There is no right or wrong answer to a question like that. It's mainly based on how we've been conditioned while growing up.
The only leeway in the answer to the question "Has Obama lied?" is A.) whether you consider a 'white lie' the same as a lie or, B.) if Obama says something that is not true, someone else points out how he got it wrong and then Obama only comes back & says "Yep, we were actually wrong on that one". (But he has not done that)
quote:vaccination I think you're under the impression that I'm saying Obama has lied because he hasn't accomplished what he set out to do. Which I'm not. What Obama has lied about & what he has/has not accomplished are two separate conversations...
Originally posted by vaccination
You're saying that the statement 'Obama lied' is a prove-able fact with only one answer[in your opinion, that answer is: yes]. Unfortunately for you, and as we have seen admirably demonstrated already there is most definitely a lot of room to argue the 'statement'. Just think about it for a second, this is clearly not fact. Let's try to determine what "lying" is, and whether the fact he has spent time and effort in putting things into motion(which he has, as already demonstrated) counts as a successful act. I mean, yeah you can take the view that anything that hasn't been completed fully is a complete fail, but that seems slightly ignorant, don't you think?
You need to realise that things don't happen overnight, remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. I also agree, with Discrate on the healthcare thing: what the fuck is wrong with you?
I fully understand how the legislative process works in the United States, cause I'm very involved in it at a local, state & often national level. I know things don't happen over night. I will acknowledge & give credit where it's due when Obama accomplish's good long lasting policies for America.
America is supposed to be self-governed by the people of the country. But it's not anymore. There is vast corruption on all levels. Policies & agenda's to benefit special interests. America is being governed by a class, an elite few, that often forget who they truly work for and often show little to no regard for the consequential 'blowback' of their policies at home or over seas.
A revolution is going on right now in America. There are so many Americans fed up with Congress, the House & the Presidential administration. And not just the current one. People have finally realized how out of control America's 'big government' has become. They are fed up with it & I feel safe to assume that many people in across the world are too. America needs to take care of the wood plank in it's own eye before trying to pick out the spec of dust in the eye of another country.
quote:Wow Discrate, lying & making things up again huh? Well, I actually called you an idiot because of the comment below. Remember? Just keep earning that rep I gave you...
Originally posted by Discrate
Exactly, i explained that to him twice, but i was called an idiot. lol. Again, he's a "I am always right" guy.
quote:
Yesterday at 01:50 PM, Pr0xY wrote:
quote:You're an idiot. You never once asked me a question. You did ask Ronaldo and I did follow up with asking what specific category of lies did you want me to start on. But you avoided that & still have not answered. So now what?
Today at 12:21 PM, Discrate wrote:
Are you forgetting the point that i only asked you a simply question at the start, how is he lying? Now your turning it into something else.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by vaccination on 10-25-2009 at 10:14 PM
Pr0xy, you make me laugh.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by CookieRevised on 10-26-2009 at 01:26 AM
wiiii, let's mingle....
About the stuff Pr0xY has said:
nice way of taking things waaaaaaaaay out of context. Some Europeans (and others) also do know what they are talking about and they certainly do not see 'just' propaganda, on the contrary! I start to believe that you're looking at all those things in a very subjective way without seeing the big picture (or at least the real big picture instead of the so called 'conspiracy' picture). Not everything, but many things you've said I find bull shit too, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose....
About the stuff Discrate has said in the beginning of the thread:
Same 'bull shit' at first, but quite often put in such a way that it is flaming, name calling, insulting, etc. And I think _that_ is the reason why you got a neg. rep, thus because in the way you always vent your 'opinions'. Thus not so much that you don't agree with Pr0xY, but because in the way you always seem to need to insult people at some point if you don't agree with them.
----------
So, talking about opinions...
quote:sorry but lol
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional). Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
To give an example: "Taking over the car industry"? lol. If you wanna put it that way I'd say it's about time somebody 'takes over' the car industry since it has an extremely big lobby and way too much power over what the governement does. So, if someone tries to do something about it you say they are "taking over" as if it is a bad thing. On the same time when that same guy fails in doing something because of maybe a big lobby, you say "they are corrupted and lying and owned by the lobby"; it's seem to be always the guy's fault.
In other words, you don't look at the big picture and you're blinded by your own personal opinion and beliefs and distored views about stuff and the guy in person. Not objective at all, not even in the slightest way. So who is being bombarded with propaganda in one way or the other?
Many people in the world (the majority actually) see Obama doing good stuff. And yes, of course he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? As Wacky has said, I'd love to see you running a governement or even a local administry and would love to see how you would cope. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get very far with the kind of views you have.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong, but at least give him some credit as he is doing very well overall. And of course, some desicions aren't going to be nice for some people. We hate it too when somebody increases the taxes over here or whatever, but in the end it is supposed to be better for everyone.
It's like, everybody wants improvements, but nobody wants to cut in their own backyard, so let's be very selfish, and without caring about the bigger picture, let's bash the guy trying todo something about it.
quote:Couldn't have said it better.
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
quote:Errrr.... it is all politics. Politics is _never_ black or white. It is always gray! There is no one perfect solution because with everything you decide or do, there are always two sides and some disadvantages. Political stuff is _not_ science and will never be! It are only extremists which see everything in black and white. Even the statement itself "Is Obama lying?" (in the political context) shows a lack of political insight imho.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
quote:Socialism, yes maybe. But then what? Socialsm isn't entirly bad. And every form has its advantages/disadvantages. But socialism is in no way comparable to fascism or nazism. If you think it is, you clearly do not know what they are or at least have a very distorted view of them.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
quote:Working very well? Sure, but for whom? There are some good things to say about it, but the majority of the world has always seen the current health care system in America as not something very well. And, as an outsider, it is good to see somebody finally trying to do something about it because it very clearly was going in the wrong way. It works very well for certain (rich) people, but there are a hell of a lot of problems for all the other people. But yes, reforming something is always painfull for some individual people, but in the end it usually turns out better for everybody.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them. Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either. Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians). Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by scarlet0906 on 10-26-2009 at 05:27 PM
I think Obama deserved the award. It's just that some people are racist or degrading him because of his color. Besides, he really set peace with everyone. Unlike, Bush who spent the money of America into the useless and non sense war like in Iraq. Which basically, one reason why US is having a recession. No offense to everyone. Just stating my opinion.
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Rolando on 10-26-2009 at 06:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scarlet0906
I think Obama deserved the award. It's just that some people are racist or degrading him because of his color. Besides, he really set peace with everyone. Unlike, Bush who spent the money of America into the useless and non sense war like in Iraq. Which basically, one reason why US is having a recession. No offense to everyone. Just stating my opinion.
Really.... 1 and 2
.. oh and 3Yep, he hasn't spent money on wars. You're right.
Btw, I've tons of black friends. One of my best friends is black. I hate racism... so don't generalize. Stop using the race card, we're in the 21st century, most people don't care about race [apparently they care about people's sexualities (still stupid to discriminate, but that's a whole different subject)].
I hate how people always say anyone who disagrees with Obama is racist. It makes them sound stupid.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-29-2009 at 02:15 AM
quote:Common sense or just conditioned thinking? Remember WDZ, 'common sense' also once said the world was flat. Although, if you're not educated enough on the subject t/o challenge the content & make a counter arguement backed by information, facts & sources, then I suppose it is easier to just call it bullshit.
Originally posted by WDZ
I was gonna reply to Pr0xY's bullshit, but maybe it's not worth it =p. tbh I don't watch the news enough to have an educated debate... I just have common sense.
quote:I wonder if you read the whole page...
Originally posted by WDZ
I wonder if Pr0xY knows the definition of "lie"
Verb: "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive" / "to create a false or misleading impression" - Noun: "an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive" / "an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker" / "something that misleads or deceives" Webster
quote:lol, It depends on whether you already knew the store was out of peanut butter before saying you'd go pick some up.
Originally posted by WDZ
If I say I'll go to the store and buy peanut butter, but when I get to the store they don't have any peanut butter, am I a liar?
Two things I want to start off with... First, I'm pretty sure most of my information in this post is accurate & can be backed by sources, examples, ext.. If you have a question about something, just ask. Second. On accident I incorrectly worded the statistic wacky quote's me on below, so let me clarify: it's "15% of people in America", not "15% of actual American Citizens". My bad.
quote:Yes & No. Yes your facts are somewhat correct. No, it's definitely not 5 million, cause that would only be 1.6% of the US population. Yes it is indeed 15%, as 47 million (4.634M to be exact) is 15% of the US population. Side note: What state in the US does your friend live in & do you know if it's too expensive for him to purchase Health Insurance or just too expensive of a out of pocket deductible?
Originally posted by wacky
quote:my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
quote:The statistic comes from an annual report by the U.S. Census Bureau, which at the time of Obama's speech, pegged the number of uninsured at 45.7 million for 2007. The annual report is called "Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States". The 2008 report was just released last month, September (2009). Here are the reports from the past four years: 2008, 2007, 2006 & 2005. Let's just dive right in into 2008, page 28 please!!!
Originally posted by President Obama (March 5, 2009)
"Even for folks who are weathering this economic storm, and have health care right now, all it takes is one stroke of bad luck -- an accident or an illness, a divorce, a lost job -- to become one of the nearly 46 million uninsured or the millions who have health care, but really can't afford what they've got." Official Source
According to the US Census Bureau:
- There are 46,340,000 TOTAL people in America without Health Care Insurance.
- 9,511,000 of them are not American citizens.
- 17,759,000 have an annual Household Income of over $50,000 US Dollars. Of those, 9,725,000 have an annual household income of over $75,000.
- 18.9 million of the uninsured were between the age of 24-34. It's also important to acknowledge & consider the possibility that some in this age group may have decided to go without coverage simply because they are young and healthy (I know many that do this). I won't subtract part of this from the 46M total, since it's an unknown.
So now we have a somewhat more accurate count. Just over 19 million (6.3%) of American citizens without Health Care Insurance. Or is it accurate? What if the numbers overlapped? Even though I find it hard to believe that a significant amount of the 9.5M Non US Citizens may be a part of the 17.7M making over $50,000 a year, I'll give the benefit of the doubt. How about 4 million of the total 9.5M Non US Citizens are also making over $50,000 a year?
Lets call it an even 23 million (7.6% of) American citizens that go without Health Care Insurance because they cannot afford it. Only 7.6%...huh? Honestly now, do any of you 'still' believe this isn't about power & control? Cause it's definitely not about lowering an already low profit margin of Health Insurance companies, or lowering drug costs, or lowering medical supply costs, or providing competition. lol. That one always makes me laugh... LOL Government providing competition, without worrying about making a profit. ROFL....
Btw, great read.. Sally Pipes notes in the Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide
--------------------------------
quote:I may have steered off subject but what have I quoted out of context?
Originally posted by CookieRevised
wiiii, let's mingle....
About the stuff Pr0xY has said:
nice way of taking things waaaaaaaaay out of context. Some Europeans (and others) also do know what they are talking about and they certainly do not see 'just' propaganda, on the contrary! I start to believe that you're looking at all those things in a very subjective way without seeing the big picture (or at least the real big picture instead of the so called 'conspiracy' picture). Not everything, but many things you've said I find bull shit too, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose....
Real journalism is alive & present throughout Europe, on a multitude of media levels (more so than the USA). Many Europeans (and others as well) do also have solid knowledge of what they're talking about & they may see more than just propaganda. However, I would highly dispute how many on a day to day basis actually see, hear or independently explore and follow the specific underlying details. It is an absolute necessity to have a strong knowledge & understanding on fundamental principles of these issues. (And the United States, framers, founding documents, ext..). Otherwise, puzzle piece views and opinions will unintentionally create accusations, misconceptions & judgments.
Generally speaking though, it's always a matter of perspective for most people. My main priority is to see everything in the big picture, globally & nationally. This is why I appreciate when others step outside the box of what their culture has conditioned them to believe in, openly listen & discuss the views of others. Including at least somewhat of a solid base for their argument, to answer the "Why's?" of your view point.
I do not believe I'm looking at this in a subjective way and especially not as what many forum members have labeled as a "conspiracy" theory. Honestly, my views & thoughts of a government seeking more & more control is far from any real conspiracy theory. Like “9/11 truthers/inside job”, “JFK assignation”, “Big Brother is watching”, “One world government”, “US faked the moon landing”, “Globel Warming”, “Elite bankers control the world”, “Rockefeller Takeover”, “2012 World destruction”, “Free Masons”, “H1N1 released by Government for population control”… ext…
So while you may consider what I've said as 'the conspiracy picture' and think that you're aware of the 'big picture', just ready for the possibility that you're merely looking at a puzzle piece and nothing close to the "big picture".
------------------
quote:lol Cookie, you are. I really couldn't help but cackle when I read this. Honestly, I'm kind of disappointed in the quality of your post. Out of seven comparisons you picked only one & used what I think is a flaud argument, based solely on your opinions & not accurate information.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
So, talking about opinions...
quote:sorry but lol
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional). Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
To give an example: "Taking over the car industry"? lol. If you wanna put it that way I'd say it's about time somebody 'takes over' the car industry since it has an extremely big lobby and way too much power over what the governement does. So, if someone tries to do something about it you say they are "taking over" as if it is a bad thing. On the same time when that same guy fails in doing something because of maybe a big lobby, you say "they are corrupted and lying and owned by the lobby"; it's seem to be always the guy's fault.
In other words, you don't look at the big picture and you're blinded by your own personal opinion and beliefs and distored views about stuff and the guy in person. Not objective at all, not even in the slightest way. So who is being bombarded with propaganda in one way or the other?
Big Labor / Unions have a huge involvement & say in US Federal Government & political issue. They help politicians get elected in exchange for them to pass new policies that favor the unions special interests.
quote:94% of the SEIU's 2008 contributions went to Democrats.
Originally posted by SEIU President Any Stern
"We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama-$60.7 million, to be exact-and we're proud of it."
When unions (Big Labor) were first created in the United States, they gained tremendus power by giving masses of mistreated workers the right to bravely stand up and simply fought for fairness. They didn't demand special rights, they demaned equal rights. Unfortinetely now times seem of have changed a bit. It's not 1930 anymore & US workers aren't being sent down a mine without water or a flashlight. The reason for Unions are slowly disappearing & as such, they are desperately grasping any chance of survival. Which is why Unions/Big Labor are now in bed with Big Government/politicians.
Big Labor made up twelve of the twenty top donors from 1989 to 2008. Here are those twelve.
- #2 - American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees.
- #6 - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.
- #7 - National Education Association.
- #8 - Laborers Union.
- #9 - Service Employees International Union.
- #10 - Carpenters & Joiners Union.
- #11 - Teamsters Union.
- #12 - Communications Workers of America.
- #14 - American Federation of Teachers.
- #16 - United Auto Workers.
- #17 - Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union.
- #20 - United Food & Commercial Workers Union.
The US Federal Government wouldn't be able to successfully run a hot dog stand. Yet you think its good that they are put in charge of so many huge parts of our economy? With so much power over an economy, they can't control it without also controlling the people.
The US Federal Government was created for very limited purposes, by the states, on behalf of 'We The People'. The American citizens hold all the power, controlling & employing the US Federal Government to carry out only the enumerated powers listed in Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution. Other then those, the rest is taken care of at the State Government level & below.
Now I've never met or heard anyone that considered the powers & limites of the U.S. Constistution as blinding propaganda, but for the sake of entertainment, please inlighten me.
----------------------
quote:The kind of views I have? I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington. Those views on the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America. Go read a history book ya noob.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Many people in the world (the majority actually) see Obama doing good stuff. And yes, of course he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? As Wacky has said, I'd love to see you running a governement or even a local administry and would love to see how you would cope. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get very far with the kind of views you have.
quote:What's "supposed to be better" & what really happens are two different stories. The US Federal Government's budget spending has increased by over 40% since 1990. Money I worked my ass off to earn is taken away a variety of reasons, 25% of which gets handed out like candy at a parade.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Then again, maybe I'm wrong, but at least give him some credit as he is doing very well overall. And of course, some desicions aren't going to be nice for some people. We hate it too when somebody increases the taxes over here or whatever, but in the end it is supposed to be better for everyone.
It's like, everybody wants improvements, but nobody wants to cut in their own backyard, so let's be very selfish, and without caring about the bigger picture, let's bash the guy trying todo something about it.
So give him credit for what? Give my US Federal Big Government credit for what? If you're going to label what I'm saying as just opinion, you better counter it with something more than just other opinions. How is he doing well over all? Come on give examples. Foreign policy? The economy? Monetary policy? Monetary policy is a huge one. What is Obama doing that's great for Monetary policy? America's credit is so bad that the country is close to losing their "AAA" status.
So you're damn right. When someone manipulates the numbers like Obama did on the uninsured in America, or appoints extremely radical advisors, I will question his motives & demand answers.
quote:Yes you could have. You could address the real issues. European Countries & the United States are not the same & a level of socialism in the US should never be desensitized by comaring it to Europe. Minimizing the seriousness of the issue by saying "Well Obama isn't currently 'that' left field" is naive. Should only raise the alarm if theres freedom one day & storm troopers marching in the street the next? It's not sudden change, it's slow distortion. Dribs & drabs.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Couldn't have said it better.
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
Obama will not come out & say what he really want to transform the country into. Why? If they were honest about what they wanted and met on the battle field of ideas & reason, America would throw them out.
The US Federal Government is filled with a bunch of weasels & booker eating idiots. The US Congress has a approval rating in the low 20%. Just wait till the 2010 elections, you'll see how many get thrown out.
quote:No, Government & politics in your country & others may always be full of grey & compromise, but that's not how it's suppose to be in my country. The major political issues are black or white, not grey. There's no room for compromise when our founding document specifically states how to handle it.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Errrr.... it is all politics. Politics is _never_ black or white. It is always gray! There is no one perfect solution because with everything you decide or do, there are always two sides and some disadvantages. Political stuff is _not_ science and will never be! It are only extremists which see everything in black and white. Even the statement itself "Is Obama lying?" (in the political context) shows a lack of political insight imho.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
If you give government the ability to live & work in the grey, they'll try (and succeed) at deceiving (lie) & manipulating the public. At that point, they'll gain more & more power, scaring the people into thinking if they sacrifice just a little bit of their freedoms, the world will be a better place.
quote:This is America. We're already a huge welfare state with a lot of lazy people mooching off hand outs. If we adopt Socialism, you better be real & acknowledge that it won't work out. Socialism will only last as long as the money supply does. My view of Socialism isn't distorted. I just constantly remind myself of what Socialism will become in a world filled with greed, laziness & freewill.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Socialism, yes maybe. But then what? Socialsm isn't entirly bad. And every form has its advantages/disadvantages. But socialism is in no way comparable to fascism or nazism. If you think it is, you clearly do not know what they are or at least have a very distorted view of them.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
I'm weaving together what might appear to be disparate scenarios, but when viewed as a whole, leave you with the nagging feeling that Obama and his team are much further left than his campaign rhetoric led us to believe.
quote:For whom? For the world of course.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:Working very well? Sure, but for whom? There are some good things to say about it, but the majority of the world has always seen the current health care system in America as not something very well. And, as an outsider, it is good to see somebody finally trying to do something about it because it very clearly was going in the wrong way. It works very well for certain (rich) people, but there are a hell of a lot of problems for all the other people. But yes, reforming something is always painfull for some individual people, but in the end it usually turns out better for everybody.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them. Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either. Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians). Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
Someone from the U.S. has won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 36 of the last 43 years, or about 84% of the time. The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care. We were able to break new ground & achieve those discoveries with a system Obama is trying to reform.
Government option?
- Live in Italy & need a mammogram? You'll be able to get plenty done in the meantime, the average wait is 70 days.
- In Great Britain, About 20% of patients with treatable colon cancer at the time of discovery are considered incurable by the time treatment is finally available.
The MRI and the CT scanner are rated as the most important medical innovations of the late 20th century. Where is it easiest to find one? Well lets see...
United Kingdom: MRI = 7.5 devices per million people.
United Kingdom: CT = 8.5 devices per million people.
France: MRI = 5 devices per million people.
France: CT = 10 devices per million people.
Canada: MRI = 7 devices per million people.
Canada: CT = 12 devices per million people.
United States: MRI = 27.5 devices per million people.
United States: CT = 34 devices per million people.
Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, "OCED Health Data 2009 --Frequently Requested Data," oced.org, accessed July 2, 2009.
-------------------------------------------------
-When free health care isn't free-
Percentage of health care cost paid out-of-pocket. All countries other than the United States have universal health care.
- Switzerland - 33%
- Spain - 23.5%
- Italy - 23%
- Finland - 20.5%
- Denmark - 15.5%
- Canada - 15.5%
- United States - 15%
- Ireland - 13.5%
- Germany - 11%
- France - 11%
-------------------------------------------------
quote:Do you still believe I'm a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die? Or just someone who sees more then you (maybe too much) and is just piecing together a puzzle...
Originally posted by Discrate
Hes one of those "OBAMA LIED, EVEN THOUGH HE HASN'T LIED ABOUT ANYTHING" "OBAMA IS TRYING TO RUIN AMERICA BY PROVIDING US WITH HEALTH CARE REFORM THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP US" people. Just got a pm off him aswell, hes a complete fuckwit.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by CookieRevised on 10-29-2009 at 03:30 AM
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....
You seem to miss the point of what somebody has said quite a lot though.
Sure you're able to "backup" (mind the quotes) many things with numbers and a lot of blahblah. But that does not make them true since you can proof almost anything by numbers and stats, and quite often certain things are left out for the convenience of proving things.
And no, I'm not going to waste my time to search and link to other articles which proofs mostly what you've said is wrong or at the least extremely exaggerated. But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.
------------------
But let's just pick some quotes which, IMHO, sums up everything:
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, etc. Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The kind of views I have? I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington. Those views on the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care.
Yeah... nice worldly and factual view and a lot of common sense you have...
------------------------------------
Oh, and lobbies (if I use the right word) are not the same thing as labor unions, btw. A lot of the big lobbies actually have nothing todo with labor unions at all. Another thing were you twist things around, trying to proof stuff with a lot of figures and stats.
PS: Personally, I don't believe you are a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die, but I certainly do believe you see way more stuff which isn't there than me or anyone else for that matter... and not "maybe too much", but waaaaaaaaaaay too much......
Anyways, in short: call me whatever you want but I don't share any of your opinions and you will never be able to convince me otherwise with those kind of views or "facts" as you call it. And I blame that on my common sense...
-------
EDIT: @Th3rmal... sorry
...
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Th3rmal on 10-29-2009 at 04:15 AM
Cookie, im dissapointed in you. When life gives you someone who writes a longer post than you, you take that as a challenge. You dont just sit back and think "Ive done my bit".
You strive to be the best.
So click on that edit button, and I expect a minimum ((Pr0xY's word count) +50) word essay proving him otherwise. And I want it by 0900 hours wherever you live.
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by John Anderton on 10-29-2009 at 06:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Th3rmal
Cookie, im dissapointed in you. When life gives you someone who writes a longer post than you, you take that as a challenge. You dont just sit back and think "Ive done my bit".
You strive to be the best.
So click on that edit button, and I expect a minimum ((Pr0xY's word count) +50) word essay proving him otherwise. And I want it by 0900 hours wherever you live.
quote:What was the word count?
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....
* John Anderton slaps Pr0xY around a bit with his post printed into a hard copy book
RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-29-2009 at 01:19 PM
quote:Lol cookie you sound like a politician now. Many people can take a pole or survey or "Government Issued census" and manipulate the numbers into what best benefits them. However, I provided the sources as well, so if you feel anything was 'left out' for the sake of proving things, just check for yourself.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
You seem to miss the point of what somebody has said quite a lot though.
Sure you're able to "backup" (mind the quotes) many things with number and a lot of blahblah. But that does not make them true since you can proof almost anything by numbers and stats, and quite often certain things are left out for the convenience of prooving things.
Obama does a good example of manipulating the numbers, which I showed in the first part of my last post
quote:It would be a big waste of time because... they don't exist. (Or at least can't be backed up with anything other than opinions...
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And no, I'm not going to waste my time to search and link to other articles which proofs mostly what you've said is wrong or at the least extremely exaggerated. But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.
) This stuff is far from being extremely aggregated. There are people running around here screaming "the government wants to kill us with the swine flu shot." Or "The H1N1 shot has a tracking bug" Or "Omg the dollar is crashing, one world currency is coming!". That stuff is the extreme. I just don't understand how so many people put all their trust in government. When you grant 'government' the right to give you something, they also have the right to take it away for any reason. Once you give up an inch of the principle, it's gone forever.
quote:O_o What is that suppose to mean? All I want is freedom to control my own life (obviously without causing direct harm to others). I have no blind fold on, no agenda, no politician, bill or policy that I want passed to benefit my agenda. I openly seek the truth & welcome constructive arguments. But it helps when they actually explain the "Why's".
Originally posted by CookieRevised
But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.
So how should a 'normal person with common sense' go about reading the articles I've posted?
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quote:Three quotes on three different issues. I suppose it sums up that: A) I hold Federal Government in America to the limited powers we've granted them. B) I believe in the founding principles of my country. C) Understand that true innovation & prosperity happens a world that does not put a cap on success.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
But let's just pick some quotes which, IMHO, sums up everything:
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
"Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks....." ".....Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't."quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The kind of views I have? I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington. Those views won the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America.quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care.
Yeah... nice worldly and factual view and a lot of common sense you have...
------------------------------------
quote:You seem to be missing (or avoiding) the point. It doesn't solve anything. Their "purpose" may not always be the same, but their influence in the government is. Big Lobby and Big Union have the same dirty fingers meddling in the legislative branch. Big Lobby control isn't lessoned because of this, it's expanded. Now they have even more reason to fund & influence politicians & government policy.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Oh, and lobbies (if I use the right word) are not the same thing as labor unions, btw. A lot of the big lobbies actually have nothing todo with labor unions at all. Another thing were you twist things around, but try to proof stuff with a lot of figures and stats.
Instead of looking at the underlying cause of problems, Government rushes to 'quick solutions' that appear to offer a fix. But it doesn’t give a long lasting solution. They don't deal with the main issue, mainly because their wallet would get lighter if they did.
I quoted this once before too, but it's appropriate. Albert Einstein once said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it." This is why Obama will not accomplish anything good or productive with long lasting effects.
quote:Fair enough. Although there are many Americans raising these questions & I'd even say (Soon enough) you’ll see more & more people begin to talk about it. (Just may have to look outside an IM Add-on forum).
Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: Personally, I don't believe you are a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die, but I certainly do believe you see way more than me or anyone else for that matter... and not "maybe too much", but waaaaaaaaaaay too much......
Anyways, in short: call me whatever you want but I don't share any of your opinions and you will never be able to convince me otherwise with those kind of views (or "facts" as you call it). And I blame that on my common sense...
quote:About 2,400 (Not counting quotes)
Originally posted by John Anderton
quote:What was the word count?
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by John Anderton on 10-30-2009 at 09:41 AM
Thanks for the count..
rofl at the jpeg name
Stop using Win9x 
RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize by Pr0xY on 10-30-2009 at 02:32 PM
quote:I'll let the IT department at work know that John Anderton disapproves.
Originally posted by John Anderton
Stop using Win9x
quote:Wow Wacky... Did you flunk out of basic elementary school math? 47 million IS 15% of the US population. Damn.
Originally posted by wacky
quote:my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
EDIT: Cookie, you're so fail. Still keeping open eyes to worlds political issues? Ignorant fool. One of many recent headlines. http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/03/20/...rs-column/2004343/