Shoutbox

Wow, this probably sounds really nerdish....

I've been using Messenger Plus! for some time. I'm also a computer programmer, with a view to creating online games. So far the sort of thing I've looked at is simple p2p connections where one person enter's the other's IP address to connect, but I'd like to look at offering my users a couple more options. One of the easier options is to create a plugin for an IM program, to allow a couple players to establish a connection.

I'm just a little concerned about the legal issues, I'd somewhat think it preferable if I didn't break the MSN Terms of Service while doing it

The relevant passage from the MSN Messenger terms of service is as follows:
"YOU MAY ONLY USE MICROSOFT CLIENT SOFTWARE OR AUTHORIZED THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE TO ACCESS AND/OR USE THE SERVICE. A LIST OF AUTHORIZED THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE CAN BE FOUND AT HTTP://MESSENGER.MSN.COM/HELP/AUTHORIZED.ASPX. You may not use any software or services in conjunction with Microsoft client software or authorized third-party software which modifies or reroutes, or attempts to modify or reroute, the Service. You may not authorize any third party to access and/or use the Service on your behalf using any automated process such as a BOT, a spider or periodic caching of information stored by Microsoft on your behalf without a separate written agreement with Microsoft. You may not use any software or hardware that reduces the number of users directly accessing or using the Service (sometimes called 'multiplexing' or 'pooling' software or hardware).

You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services that are part of the Service except as expressly provided in these Terms of Use."

Can anyone here, who is fluent in legalese, suggest whether that should be interpreted to mean that you can, or cannot, use MSN Messenger to connect two players who want to play an online game together?

Thanks in advance.

I suppose I could, in any event, get a server to do it, but whether I can justify spending hundreds of dollars each year on the net connection (not to mention the server) to host this game is rather cloudy.

I'm actually not too sure about what's legal and not so i can't quite help u but i'm wondering something.... one of the things it says is you can't have bots... and u cant patch msn... but bots and patches are very comon... so i dunno... doesnt make sense for me

Yeah, the bit about bots is probably the bit that excludes me
Ah well. I'll probably have to either ignore it or find some way around

Modifying the messenger .exe, a .dll or any other files that belong to Messenger will be "You may not modify .. any ... software, ... products that are part of the Service except as expressly provided in these Terms of Use.So that will be illegal.

As far as bots: You may not authorize any third party to access and/or use the Service on your behalf using any automated process such as a BOTI think this is more aimed at using a bot to allow MSN to interact with other networks (third party) like trillian/IRC and things. You bot won't be accesing the MSN service itself when you use the API to communicate. Your bot will use MSN Messenger and Messenger will communicate to the service then. That is as long as you don't communicate to the MSN protocol/servers directly but only through API.

In short, as long as you don't modify any of MSN's files and don't communicate to the MSN protocol/servers directly you should be fine. You can still communicate directly to your own server(s) or peer2peer between the users when you do that outside of the MSN protocol (MSN isn't peer2peer anyway). Using Messenger API is a good thing, hooking into MSN is a common thing too (just like Plus! does) but nut sure if it would be 100% legal. However, don't worry to much about these rules. As long as you clearly show you don't have bad intentions and keep away from modifying files/hacking into the protocol you should be fine. Patchou hooks into Plus! and made an option to hide the banner, which seems very bad for Microsoft. Yet Microsoft contacted him and even offered Patchou a job. Patchou didn't take the job because af some other reason, but from what i've heard the Messenger team still emails Patchou sometimes when they need his help .

Just to show how wierd an EULA can be sometimes: "You may not ...  transfer ... any information ... that are part of the Service except as expressly provided in these Terms of Use." .

MenthiX, Jivlain ;
an EULA is always written to cover your own a$$(ets). as long as u dont abuse or *steal* costumers (wich i dont think you'll do if u use MSN protocol/program in an non-abusive way) .

if u read some patent-pending's in USA you'd find ALOT of wierd/funny/absurb patent's i belive that microsoft(or apple, not shure) has has the "dropdown" window patended, but they wont use it to destroy for other companies, it would not hold in court unless someone abused it into insanity (probably not possible ).

thus, if u dont interfere with M$ biz/assets you *should* be pretty safe, but be warned! even if microsoft KNOW they cant win in court, they can ruin you personally with courttime! :/

legal notice :
anything written by me should never be trusted or taken as the law, if u want to try your legal rights agains *ANY* mayor company be my guest, but *I* cant be responsible, by reading _THIS_ line you accept my terms of use.

^^

the phunny thing is that my "lame-o-EULA" probably is legal  but im not shure, even if its not and u sue me, i will be in the clear because im in sweden and we have better laws here