Shoutbox

There is nothing wrong with /ping it's perfectly fine don't bother Patchou plus is great and doesn't need anything at the mo to make it better.

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Originally posted by Matty

Cookie's post is explaining the fact that it could be a breech of privacy even if there is an option to hide having it (which there is when it comes to responding to /ping requests). The webcam isn't a breech of privacy since you have the option of, and I quote from the Options in MSN Messenger, "Share my webcam capabilities with others." Meaning if its unchecked you wont see the webcam icon in the convo, if it is checked, you will see it.

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That argument made no sense....

...could be a breech of privacy even if there is an option to hide having it ....

...The webcam isn't a breech of privacy since you have the option of.....
"Share my webcam capabilities with others." Meaning if its unchecked you wont see the webcam icon in the convo, if it is checked, you will see it.

Thats what the option would be in Plus! like the webcam one....Your argument is tottaly invalid my friend sorry.

i agree with riahc your arguement made no sense matty

Stop trying to find reasons to add/change it... It wont be done for all the reasons that we've already pointed out.


It can't be compared with the webcam option in Messenger. This option is already part of Messenger, and there is still a huge difference between something that is already part of a software and something that is added by a 3rd party. Privacy IS an issue here...

If it was added in a hidden way, then Plus! sends packets behind the back of the user. This IS a privacy breach. Even if the other contact has disabled the return of the ping, the packet is still send to that user. And THAT is were the privacy issue is. Plus! is already called spyware sometimes (without any reasons). If this is added in this way, then there are reasons to call it that. (I know there is still a difference, but that is what those people are looking for: lame excuses to call it spyware: "hey, I discovered that it sends hidden info"...)

Also, the thing above can be done in several ways: using the current protocol, or using a P2P method. Both methods are out of the question for Plus!. Plus! will never temper with the protocol (like other addons). It is suppose to be a "clean"/"non-invasive" addon. The P2P method is also out of the question because of the reason that Matty gave: Patchou wont add a dirty winsock-layer method to do this.

Also, don't forget the fact that people will not always have Plus!. Their Messenger should be able to handle the send "packet" without "beeping" up. If something is send to someone without Plus! they can say, again, that something is sending dodgy things to them (=again privacy issue and also the "dodgy software" factor).

So, how to do it in a clean way? By sending a textmessage... And text can't be hidden. And even if it could, it wouldn't be a nice thing to do...

Like Matty already said: all the methods available have been discussed before this was added. And this is the best, cleanest and proper way...

some people thinks that sending a ping? command to someone without msgplus would look weird.  A possible solution is to change "ping?" into "Ping! Do you have msgPlus?" and answer with "Pong! Sure do!" or something similar so that if the other person had never heard of msgplus, it doesn't sound weird...

a possible solution to auto detection would be to add an option in msgplus's preference (default=off) which when turned on, msgplus sends a visible "ping?" command to all the contacts who "may or may not have msgplus installed"

ok cookie i understand what you are saying but i know people think that seeing a ping on their screens looks weird when i send 1 they are always going "??" cause they dont understand why ive said that then i have to try and explain it to them.

a few of the people i pinged last week said that plus buggered up their computer and they had to format to fix the problem. any ideas what might have caused that?

ok back on topic can it be changed that when i type /ping the user sees "do you have messenger plus? if no you can check it out at www.msgplus.net" and then if they have plus it comes back pong but we wont see pong we will see "yes i have messenger plus" or something like that? its just an idea you wouldnt be changing the whole feature so it wouldnt be invasion of privacy youd just be changing the text that users see when using the ping and pong feature is all surely that couldnt do any harm right?

Ill analize by parts....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

It can't be compared with the webcam option in Messenger. This option is already part of Messenger, and there is still a huge difference between something that is already part of a software and something that is added by a 3rd party. Privacy IS an issue here...

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Ok the webcam detection feature is a part of messenger but it isnt a privacy breaking feature but a 3rd party addon that adds something similar isnt? With this thinking since all features in Messenger are built in then Plus! couldnt make/add more features to it.

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
 
If it was added in a hidden way, then Plus! sends packets behind the back of the user. This IS a privacy breach. Even if the other contact has disabled the return of the ping, the packet is still send to that user. And THAT is were the privacy issue is. Plus! is already called spyware sometimes (without any reasons). If this is added in this way, then there are reasons to call it that. (I know there is still a difference, but that is what those people are looking for: lame excuses to call it spyware: "hey, I discovered that it sends hidden info"...)

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Once again i bet MSN Messenger also sends a packet for the webcam detection feature so that also could possibly be exploited if further investigacion is done. Your saying something cant be done even tho its already in MSN Messenger. Why keep the chat log then if messenger already has one then?

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

Also, the thing above can be done in several ways: using the current protocol, or using a P2P method. Both methods are out of the question for Plus!. Plus! will never temper with the protocol (like other addons).

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How bout the File Transfer Plus plugin that was made by RicarDog? This uses something like you stated i belive. If Patchou found it to be illegal or incorrect dont you think he would have removed it from the forums?

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

It is suppose to be a "clean"/"non-invasive" addon.

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Of course i agree completely and it should remain like this as long as possible but (AND THIS IS OFFTOPIC AND MY STRICT OPINION) minds evolutionize as you and me both know. What happens when MSN decides to change messenger drasticly in where no "hooking" can occur? What will be the future of Plus! then?

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

The P2P method is also out of the question because of the reason that Matty gave: Patchou wont add a dirty winsock-layer method to do this.

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Agreed

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

Also, don't forget the fact that people will not always have Plus!. Their Messenger should be able to handle the send "packet" without "beeping" up. If something is send to someone without Plus! they can say, again, that something is sending dodgy things to them (=again privacy issue and also the "dodgy software" factor).

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The "PLUS IZ SPIWARE!111!!!" comments will always be there. Haters just hate cuz they aint popular like Patchou/Msgplus and broke ass people that aint getting no money either. The noob factor is a whole nother issue


Well i hope you reply to this

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Originally posted by riahc4
Once again i bet MSN Messenger also sends a packet for the webcam detection feature so that also could possibly be exploited if further investigacion is done. Your saying something cant be done even tho its already in MSN Messenger. Why keep the chat log then if messenger already has one then?

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it uses client Id, which can't be changed unless you use protocol

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4
How bout the File Transfer Plus plugin that was made by RicarDog? This uses something like you stated i belive. If Patchou found it to be illegal or incorrect dont you think he would have removed it from the forums?

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this doesn't autodetect ¬_¬. it sends the IP using the notification functions of the MP! api and then uses a direct connection

(i know you don't like me replying to your posts, but this one was really serious lol)

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It can't be compared with the webcam option in Messenger. This option is already part of Messenger, and there is still a huge difference between something that is already part of a software and something that is added by a 3rd party. Privacy IS an issue here...

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Ok the webcam detection feature is a part of messenger but it isnt a privacy breaking feature but a 3rd party addon that adds something similar isnt?

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And because it is 3rd party it IS a privacy breach

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Originally posted by riahc4With this thinking since all features in Messenger are built in then Plus! couldnt make/add more features to it.

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Exactly, Plus! will NEVER add features which are an invasion of privacy.

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
If it was added in a hidden way, then Plus! sends packets behind the back of the user. This IS a privacy breach. Even if the other contact has disabled the return of the ping, the packet is still send to that user. And THAT is were the privacy issue is. Plus! is already called spyware sometimes (without any reasons). If this is added in this way, then there are reasons to call it that. (I know there is still a difference, but that is what those people are looking for: lame excuses to call it spyware: "hey, I discovered that it sends hidden info"...)

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Once again i bet MSN Messenger also sends a packet for the webcam detection feature so that also could possibly be exploited if further investigacion is done.

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Once again, PRIVACY BREACH! Because it isn't an build-in feature of Messenger and because Plus! wont temper with the protocol.

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4
Your saying something cant be done even tho its already in MSN Messenger. Why keep the chat log then if messenger already has one then?

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Where did I say it can't be done? I said it wont be done! Besides what has chat-logging to do (even remotely) with anything discussed here?

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Originally posted by riahc4

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Also, the thing above can be done in several ways: using the current protocol, or using a P2P method. Both methods are out of the question for Plus!. Plus! will never temper with the protocol (like other addons).

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How bout the File Transfer Plus plugin that was made by RicarDog? This uses something like you stated i belive.

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Not similar at all! Furthermore I said Patchou and Plus! wont add anything P2P. I didn't say that plugins (which are 3rd party compared to Plus!) couldn't do it...

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4
If Patchou found it to be illegal or incorrect dont you think he would have removed it from the forums?

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If it was, then yes, it will be removed. But who said that FileTransfer is incorrect or illegal???

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Originally posted by riahc4

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It is suppose to be a "clean"/"non-invasive" addon.

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Of course i agree completely and it should remain like this as long as possible but (AND THIS IS OFFTOPIC AND MY STRICT OPINION) minds evolutionize as you and me both know. What happens when MSN decides to change messenger drasticly in where no "hooking" can occur? What will be the future of Plus! then?

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If Patchou can't find a "clean"/"non-invasive" way, it will stop...

quote:

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Originally posted by riahc4

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Also, don't forget the fact that people will not always have Plus!. Their Messenger should be able to handle the send "packet" without "beeping" up. If something is send to someone without Plus! they can say, again, that something is sending dodgy things to them (=again privacy issue and also the "dodgy software" factor).

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The "PLUS IZ SPIWARE!111!!!" comments will always be there. Haters just hate cuz they aint popular like Patchou/Msgplus and broke ass people that aint getting no money either. The noob factor is a whole nother issue

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That isn't an excuse to include this to give those people even more reasons to say that...




riahc4, please stop to try and convince people, it wont be added for all the reasons we gave already several times before. No matter how hard you try (also because you're starting to give contradicting or offtopic reasons). sorry....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And because it is 3rd party it IS a privacy breach

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OK ill give you a better example; MSN puts in a new feature that detects the version of MSN on the other side but Plus also decides to make this feature for Plus! too. Your saying that it would be a breach of privacy on the part of Plus! BUT not MSN?? Why make addon's thenl???

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Originally posted by CookieRevisedExactly, Plus! will NEVER add features which are an invasion of privacy.

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Agreed

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Originally posted by CookieRevised Once again, PRIVACY BREACH! Because it isn't an build-in feature of Messenger and because Plus! wont temper with the protocol.

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To enable this feature (Plus! Detection) the protocol would have to be used? Its a check like StuffPlug-NG's "Notify When User Closed Windows" and StuffPlug-NG doesnt use the protocol (i belive, correct me if im wrong).

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Originally posted by CookieRevisedWhere did I say it can't be done? I said it wont be done! Besides what has chat-logging to do (even remotely) with anything discussed here?

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Chat-loggin has nothing to do with it. Chat loggin is both in Plus! and in MSN. Webcam detection is in MSN so why not Plus! detection? That is the relation between them

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Originally posted by CookieRevised Not similar at all! Furthermore I said Patchou and Plus! wont add anything P2P. I didn't say that plugins (which are 3rd party compared to Plus!) couldn't do it...

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Theres more than one way around the wall; meaning if p2p doesnt want to be done then theres gotta be another way...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
If Patchou can't find a "clean"/"non-invasive" way, it will stop...

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No Comment...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
That isn't an excuse to include this to give those people even more reasons to say that...




riahc4, please stop to try and convince people, it wont be added for all the reasons we gave already several times before. No matter how hard you try (also because you're starting to give contradicting or offtopic reasons). sorry....

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CookieRevised, please stop trying to make valid points look bad. If your running outta arguments and this is your way to make yourself still look good then just dont reply to the thread. Maybe some of the points you argumented because i didnt express them correctly. My ideas are for Plus! not for the "people"