Shoutbox

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Windows Messenger

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The folder itself is called Messenger not Windows Messenger.

I didn't check, but I assume this is the problem because I couldn't find another problem.

But the question is, how can an installer update (or even install) windows messenger correctly? I hate to just place text on my site saying "you must download this and this and then do that". I want my installer to do it all . I already does download dotnetfx from the microsoft servers when the .NET FrameWork isn't installed...

So where to get the update? Off course I want a minimum version. And is there any registry key or something to check if the Messenger API has already been installed?

[OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by Matty

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Windows Messenger

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The folder itself is called Messenger not Windows Messenger.

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I meant it as in "check your program folders to see if the program called Windows Messenger is there somewhere" I didn't explicitly mention the directory because that could be anything (if the user has disabled it using some crappy method (aka: renaming the directory)) my apology for being a bit to vague about it...
[/OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by J-Thread
But the question is, how can an installer update (or even install) windows messenger correctly?

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By using very strict and correct methods. Among them is checking the registry for the Windows Messenger GUID and in that way determining its path. Then checking version numbers, checking if dependant libraries (dll's) are installed/registered and what not, etc... etc... etc...

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Originally posted by J-Thread
I hate to just place text on my site saying "you must download this and this and then do that". I want my installer to do it all . I already does download dotnetfx from the microsoft servers when the .NET FrameWork isn't installed...

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I do not recommend doing that! Although it _might_ be user-friendly at first sight, it actually isn't. This is because such frameworks can be updated and what not. You must realy be carefull if you do that and you must use proper methods to determine version numbers and what not. It isn't so strait forward as you might think at all! Code to do this all automatically is long and consists of many many checks and stuff. Not to mention the simple fact that some people do not want this kind of auto-install stuff going on without their consent!!! For all they know you are installing on older version of the framework (or even stuff you shouldn't install)...

Trust upon the user instead, explain what they need and where they can download it. And thus let them decide if they want it or not, if they need it or not, and thus what is installed on their computer or not.

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Originally posted by J-Thread
So where to get the update?

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All current updates can be found on the microsoft download center (mind you that brand new updates take a few days/weeks to be available on the download center though).

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Originally posted by J-Thread
Off course I want a minimum version. And is there any registry key or something to check if the Messenger API has already been installed?

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Check its GUID (IIRC {53CED51D-432B-45B2-A3E0-0CE2C24235D4}). If that is there _chances_ are that it is installed. Or better: was installed at some point (the user could've manually deleted the program without deleting/updating the reg keys. Hence, again, be very carefull in auto-installing stuff like that!!!)

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I do not recommend doing that! Although it _might_ be user-friendly at first sight, it actually isn't. This is because such frameworks can be updated and what not. You must realy be carefull if you do that and you must use proper methods to determine version numbers and what not. It isn't so strait forward as you might think at all! Code to do this all automatically is long and consists of many many checks and stuff. Not to mention the simple fact that some people do not want this kind of auto-install stuff going on without their consent!!! For all they know you are installing on older version of the framework (or even stuff you shouldn't install)...

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That's a good point. I know all this and I really tried to be as user friendly as possible. The method I use to get the framework version is not a simple one. I does loop trough a couple of registry values to get the latest installed version. It does work with all the versions know at the moment (at least the version I did test with). If the framework isn't found, a new page is showed in the installer. It tells the user the framework isn't found, and that its recommended to install it. The user can uncheck the box, get's another warning when clicking yes, but can choose to not install the framework.

If it is checked the file is downloaded from the microsoft server, and it's the file microsoft marks as the right file for redistributing. Then it is installed.

About the versions, it isn't possible to overwrite a newer version in this method. If my check does fail, I'm sure the dotnetfx.exe file also does a check to see if there are already newer versions installed. And, if there are newer (stable) versions, the file may be updated once I think.

So, I think we have the same thougts about it, but instead of sending the user to the microsoft download center to download that file, I let my setup do it. It is a choice I made and I did think about it...

About that windows messenger thing, thanks for that registry key. I'll test a couple of things at the windows 98 machine tomorrow, I hope i can finally find the problem.

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Originally posted by J-Thread
That's a good point. I know all this and I really tried to be as user friendly as possible. The method I use to get the framework version is not a simple one. I does loop trough a couple of registry values to get the latest installed version. It does work with all the versions know at the moment (at least the version I did test with). If the framework isn't found, a new page is showed in the installer. It tells the user the framework isn't found, and that its recommended to install it. The user can uncheck the box, get's another warning when clicking yes, but can choose to not install the framework.

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Originally posted by J-Thread
If it is checked the file is downloaded from the microsoft server, and it's the file microsoft marks as the right file for redistributing.

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Many things found on the download center are marked as redistributable. But redistributable doesn't mean that it is the correct file. If a file is marked "redistributable" it means you can physically add it to your own installer. If a file is marked as "not-redistributable", it means that you may not attach the physical file to your own installer because different versions and types of that file may exist on different OS's or different OS's need different versions, etc... Instead the user should download it from the official and proper source (from the download center for example after selecting the correct OS or what not).

Being redistributable doesn't mean it is the correct latest version...

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Originally posted by J-Thread
About the versions, it isn't possible to overwrite a newer version in this method. If my check does fail, I'm sure the dotnetfx.exe file also does a check to see if there are already newer versions installed.

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Possible, but experienced has tought me this isn't always the case. Some files/installer on the download center do not check for this. I'm not saying this is the case for the .NET framework though, but it is a possebility (if not now, maybe in the future)...

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Originally posted by J-Thread
And, if there are newer (stable) versions, the file may be updated once I think.

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You mean on the download center? Not always! In some cases, MS updates the current available download, in other cases it creates a new download page with another unique id number. This can even change from update to update. eg: the link to MSN Messenger in the download center is only sometimes updated to a newer version, and sometimes the old version is left and a new download page (with another unique id) is created...

In short: you can't always trust on that to always have the latest download. You need to manually search and check if there isn't a newer download available on another page.

quote:

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Originally posted by J-Thread
So, I think we have the same thougts about it, but instead of sending the user to the microsoft download center to download that file, I let my setup do it. It is a choice I made and I did think about it...

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anyways, without trying your install or what not, from what you just told me, it seems ok (with the note that it still _could_ download an outdated version in the future though)...

I totally agree with that, but if it may happen, I think it is the users own fault. There always is an option to not install it...

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In short: you can't always trust on that to always have the latest download. You need to manually search and check if there isn't a newer download available on another page.

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True, but it is a version that is working, the reason I let the setup download it is not to give the user the latest framework version, but to let my application work. And with this version my application does work!