Shoutbox

if it is a known mentally ill person, and they commit a crime like murder where the consequences are serious jail time, they should be given the help they need in a special hospital. I iwouldnt expect them to last long in a real prison anyways, it would be to overwhelming for them to take in

Maybe a rehabilitation in jail?

Mentally ill people aren't treated specially for the crime, they're treated for their disability.

The responses to this poll are going to fall right along the lines of positions the same people would take in a bigger ongoing debate -- whether the role of the criminal justice system is retaliation (making sure the perpetrator "got what he deserved") or rehabilitation (making sure it doesn't happen again).

Obviously, the supporters of the retaliation mindset are going to feel it doesn't make any difference whether somebody is insane or not.  Retaliation is a response to acts and the acts have been committed.

Those in the rehabilitation camp would see a big difference.  Someone suffering from a mental illness needs different treatment than someone who knowingly committed a crime.

Most criminal justice systems try to somehow balance the two, but it has been shown that systems leaning toward rehabilitation (shorter sentences,  needs-based treatment, available counseling and education while serving time) produce far fewer re-offenders than the systems that focus on retaliation.

Personally, my opinion is that if anyone needs to be penalized for crimes committed by persons with previous mental illness history, it should be their family members and the mental health institutions responsible for them.  They are the ones fully competent, who have been negligent in their responsibility to supervise a patient.

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Originally posted by Ash_
personally i believe they shouldn't be treated differently, a victim is still dead, a daughter, a possible sister or mother is gone. just because the murderer didn't think it was wrong or couldn't understand what they were doing doesent make it any less of a crime.

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It doesn't make it less of a crime but that is not the issue. You're talking about the punishment, not about the crime. A punishment should be suited to the crime, but also to the person.

If a 13yr old minor commits a murder, does that make it differently than when a grown-up do it? No.... But you do treat him differently because it is a minor (there are as always exceptions of course; but again, exceptions are a indication of not treating everybody the same)....

Same with (true) mental ill people, if you would punish them the same as everybody else it will not be a good punishment for them, or on the other hand it will be a way to severe punishment for them.

Do you punish all children the same way whenever they do something wrong (steal a cookie)? No. One punishment is not the other punishment to an individual child. eg: one can suffer great from not watching TV, the other may even not care... How stupid this comparisson might seem, it is actually exactly the same thing: you punish people on an individual basis given a set of global rules (but it still is individual punishment).

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Originally posted by Ash_
if you agree that they should recieve special treatment, imagine you were a parent of this victim would you agree with it then.

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If a mental ill person would kill one of my family I certainly would not want them to recieve the same punishment as non-mental ill people. What good will that do? They even may not realize they are been punished or whatever. If they don't realize they did something wrong by killing someone, how are they going to realize they've been punished? And what is the meaning of a punishment? To let the person he/she did something wrong. Not to easy your own mind and to take revenge (like in the middle ages).

If you treat people all in the exact same way, you actually don't punish people for justice, but you punish people to ease your own mind: an eye for an eye (aka being selfish)...


crime isn't black and white, neither is justice.



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Originally posted by pirateok
becuase they need to be taught it isnt right and to rehibilitate them with help

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which is not done by punishing them same way.

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Originally posted by pirateok

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Originally posted by nimicitor
if you have ever met a schizophrenic then they can convince you that they are fine and dont need help or that they are the son of god etc.

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Yeah, that's what pisses me off about them, becuase behind closed doors and stuff they could be the god damn devil himself...but no one else can see that, and when you call for help they turn on that "good" side of them.

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that's seriously stereotyping (just as a lot of other stuff in this thread)

ok well i havent read all of the above posts but this is what i have to say

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Originally posted by darkme
Maybe a rehabilitation in jail?

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA j00 make me lawf - kudos to you.

currently studying legal, we discussed options for paedophiles, talked to a prison psychiatrist rehab does not work at all.

you cant ask if mentally unstable people deserve 'special treatment' because really, you must look at cases individually. every motivation for committing a crime is individual, there is no.. standard reason.

the real problem is that you can not get adequate help if you are mentally unstable. there was an mp3 file which i listened to about this but its no longer being uploaded. one guy was actually killed because he went crazy and no one could stop him except the police. there should be emergency people out there who can come in and calm or sedate the person

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Originally posted by Voldemort

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Originally posted by *Saint*

Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong

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Errr.... i dont think 3 or 4 year olds intend to kill.....

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That leaves the question, do all mentally ill murderers intend to kill?

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Originally posted by nimicitor
paedophiles arnt mentally ill

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That's a matter of opinion.

A perfect case is Derek Bentley, who was a 19 year old with the mental age of an 11 year old. He was one of the last people put under the death penility here in England despite he was innocent. The crime was shooting a police officer, which his friend Christoper Craig commited. However, he got away with it and is still living today because he was too young to got to prison, but because Derek was 19 he was blamed and hanged.

Only recently his name was cleared by his sister 40 years after he died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bentley

I work in a GP sorting through patients' files. While I am not allowed to mention any names, I can talk about the cases themselves.

A man was at a train station, and got into a random car, killed the driver and attacked the two passengers.
In the psychologist's report, the psycologist said that the man couldn't give a reason as to why he killed the driver, he just felt a compelling urge to do so.
It was confirmed later, that he was a paranoid schizophrenic.

If that guy was treated in the exact same way as a mentally stable person would have been treated, when he got out of jail, he may have killed more people, because he didn't receive any treatment, instead he stayed in a psychiatric hospital for a bit, got treatment, and now has been alright for a few years, he has got a job, and is a functioning member of society.

On another note, I know that the NHS gets a lot of stick, however, looking through these guys notes, I can see that the NHS does a lot to help patients with the resources it has, for example this guys file was huge, he had loads of psycologists reports, and there were 8 meetings where everyone who had ever treated him met up to specifically discuss this one patient