Shoutbox

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Originally posted by cloudhunter
So you have never seen an elephant... Does it not exist? You can't see air... Does it not exist?

Just random thoughts

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I've never seen a panda in real life. Does that mean they don't exist? I don't know. Difference between God and a panda is if I want I can travel to China and see and touch a panda with my own eyes and hands.

Now what if the panda became extinct before I did that? Maybe now there's no way to prove a panda's existence... oh wait, of course, there's the corpses of them, and let's see, probably tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of hours of recorded video of pandas.

Where's the same of God? oh, right, there isn't a single bit of conclusive proof of God's existence apart from the "everything needs a creator" claim. Well I've already answered that in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here:

if God existed then God needed a creator too. If God didn't have a creator as you claim, then why is it absurd for the universe not to have a creator? Something had to appear from nowhere, whether it be God, or the universe. And you'll never catch me believing that it's the most unlikely of the two.

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Originally posted by segosa
Why do you believe in God?

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lol who said we do? (Its rhetorical)

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Originally posted by Nitro
Why do you believe in God?

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Its a public poll, newb

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Originally posted by cloudhunter
What would you prefer? A world without free will where everyone is a robot, has no say in what they do and there is no variaty, or free will where people die at the hands of others?

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I'd prefer to have a God that seems to care (if he existed). I would prefer to not have conflict and all the hatred that's going on in the world.

God isn't doing a hell of a lot for us at the moment is he , why? Because he isn't real.

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Originally posted by Time
I have to agree with the aspect of beauty you bring up, the Earth IS beautiful. But why does that have to imply a creator? Harking back to fractals - they are simply a mathematical 'trick' - and yet they are beautiful themselves, e.g.

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No creator... just numbers and still possessing an inherent beauty. Think about the abstract formation of galaxies or the simple coalescence of gases around the universe that make up the stunning images that NASA publish or the images of dying stars throwing out loops of gas into the cosmos:

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See. Beautiful. And just an abstract process...

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You've seen Pi haven't you?

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Originally posted by cloudhunter

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Originally posted by Ash_
i dont believe in a god because of the terrible things that happen in this world. paedophiles and serial killers are allowed life yet honest people and kids die.

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God gave humans free will. And as such, Human nature is unpredictable. Sure God could stop it, but if he did, he'd be taking away free will.

What would you prefer? A world without free will where everyone is a robot, has no say in what they do and there is no variaty, or free will where people die at the hands of others?

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Originally posted by Curtis
I believe in God because I choose to.

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Amen.

Woot! 500 posts!

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i'd prefer a world where suitable punishment is regularly enforced against offenders of the worst crimes. where a life is worth a life and not a 15 year jail sentence in some countries. but hey, you believe in god i believe in science so theres no point in arguing.

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Originally posted by Ash_
i'd prefer a world where suitable punishment is regularly enforced against offenders of the worst crimes. where a life is worth a life and not a 15 year jail sentence in some countries. but hey, you believe in god i believe in science so theres no point in arguing.

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I "believe" in science but I also think that a life for a life is a bad idea. It's in humanitys nature to kill, not only to survive, but also as an act of revenge. Luckily, we're not stupid or otherwise we'd all have killed each other by now (it's not like the case of an eye for an eye, you can take someone elses eye after they've taken yours, but if someone kills you, someone else has to kill them, and then they have to be killed, and so on and so forth).

As for the second law of thermodynamics, I'll point you to here.

Energy is never productive unless it's entered into a system. But without the energy from the Sun, life on Earth would cease to exist. (And the Sun itself is tending to entropy as the heat it produces escapes, and to produce more heat Hydrogen has to be used up... and eventually the Sun goes supernova)

It's also widely believed (although the Physics explaining it just goes straight over my head) that the universe is an open system. (I don't know where it's energy comes from, but when more than one person more intelligent than me agree on something, I tend to believe them).

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Originally posted by Time
Except our Sun won't go supernova... it's about 7 solar masses too 'light'.

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Hmm, I really should've checked that first huh. Either way, the sun will "die" when it runs out of stuff to burn.

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Originally posted by Time
Therein lies your faith.

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Hmm, I guess. But an intelligent person isn't God.

I seem to be good at derailing these topics

Haha I found Pikachu looking for the OT icon:

Science is overrated.. We are overrated.. Humans think they're so great. We can walk on the moon bla bla bla. I don't agree on the bible stuff, but why is it so hard to just believe in God? Suffering and murderers etc are our creation. If you want paradise, get off your butt and do it yourself. Why expect some God to fix your crap?

Anyway, facts aren't always facts. A lot of things thought to be facts aren't facts at all. It's just general assumption. All healthy trees are green --> have you seen each tree? There are two documentaries: what do the bleep do we know + what the bleep down the rabbit hole.. Both are doc's on quantum physics etc.. Each possibility exists in one world until someone picks one by viewing. There's an interesting experiment in it. Not gonna explain the whole process, too much tbh, but the conclusion was: Atoms going through 2 slots made a pattern on a surface: a wave pattern. But when the atoms were observed, they made a different pattern. You saw a 2 slots on the surface. Viewing the atoms changed their whole being. Scientists don't know why, but they just act that way.. Anywaaaay, my point here is that science doesn't know everything. We can't figure out simple stuff. We don't even have a cure for the common cold, but we do KNOW that God doesn't exist. A being that possibly created life. Why do we assume that this powerful being can't even hide itself from our eyes. What if we just don't have the ability to do so? Just ask a blind person if he can see how many fingers you're holding up. He can't. And don't give me crap with "yeah, well he can feel the fingers".. No the question was: how many fingers do you see?

Just to recognise God as a possibility is enough, because we are not gods ourselves. We do not know everything. We do not rule the universe. Why claim such a thing about God?

But maybe there's a reason why God doesn't show himself. Maybe we just don't have the right. Maybe he doesn't like his own creation. Maybe he's thinking: "yeah, well f that shit.. ignorant dumb little arrogant ants"

It's not that God has to exist per se, but it's good enough that God is a possibility. That gives him about enough existence he can get..at the moment.. And God as a possibility can be scientifically supported.

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Originally posted by Ash_
i'd prefer a world where suitable punishment is regularly enforced against offenders of the worst crimes. where a life is worth a life and not a 15 year jail sentence in some countries. but hey, you believe in god i believe in science so theres no point in arguing.

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I believe in both god and science

in some sense i believe in God, those reasons i wont go into