Shoutbox

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie_su1986
whoever runs Yuna software is

---

which would be patchou (i think)

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie_su1986
Patchou is not in charge of Messenger Plus anymore; whoever runs Yuna software is.

this is not my opnion, it's a fact.

---

Small correction: he does not own Plus! anymore, there is a small difference.

He is still in charge of some aspects of it. Just as other people are now in charge for the other bits. Each having their own function. So it does not mean Patchou does not have anything to say anymore (hence this is no sell-out). His official title in the company is Software Architect.

quote:

---

Originally posted by toddy

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie_su1986
whoever runs Yuna software is

---

which would be patchou (i think)

---

No, he does not run Yuna Software anymore. However, he is still actively involved in Yuna Software’s daily business.

At one point Yuna Software was created by Patchou (for legal reasons), and it was just him running the company. From that point on the company named Yuna Software owned Messenger Plus!, not the person called Patchou.

A few months ago, he has sold his company and now there are many more people involved in Plus!. Patchou isn't the only one anymore.

For some details see the linked posted by Menthix before:
http://www.patchou.com/2009/12/the-messenger-plus-story/

Just want to say that what MenthiX said about someone selling out is wrong. Just because someone is still partaking in something doesn't mean that they haven't sold out. It means that they've sold out on their core values, their initial reasons for doing something or even just going against their own beliefs.

I can't really comment on what Patchou has done, but I think he made a business decision that was, whether he's selling out or not, a good move. Something like Messenger Plus! is not going to last forever. If I were in Patchou's shoes and I had the opportunity of selling a thriving business for a good amount and still be involved I would go for it.

However, even though it may've been a solid business decision, that doesn't stop me from thinking that Patchou has sold out a little. I know someone like him who is so dedicated to the Messenger Plus! software could not live off the proceeds whilst keeping to his core beliefs, but he's still sold out. That's the reason why I couldn't bring myself to pressing the 'no' button in this poll.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
A few months ago, he has sold his company and now there are many more people involved in Plus!. Patchou isn't the only one anymore.

---

I'm sure that many other members will agree with me when I say that involving many more people in Messenger Plus! isn't a good thing. I think the main pull towards Plus! for a lot of us was that it was community-driven. I don't know anything about the employees of Messenger Plus! but I do know that they're doing what they're doing for monetary gain and as a job; their hearts will never be in it as much as if Patchou had passed the gauntlet down to x amount of trusted people in a community like this.

The 'community spirit' will slowly evaporate away.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
He is still in charge of some aspects of it. Just as other people are now in charge for the other bits. Each having their own function. So it does not mean Patchou does not have anything to say anymore (hence this is no sell-out). His official title in the company is Software Architect.

---

Regardless of what you say. All this says to me is that he's not as personally attached to the software anymore. I don't blame him, but I think it seems like he's chasing other dreams now. A good choice.

Yuna Software is now in charge of Messenger Plus!. Whether Patchou is a 'software architect' or not, it will still no longer be down to him when it comes to financial decisions, cashflow and so on and so forth. If Yuna Software were to say tomorrow "Let's make people pay for the forum", I don't think there's much that could be done to stop them, the same as if they wanted to make adware no longer optional and make Plus! more ad-driven...

Patchou is not in control.

We don't pay for the software so we can't tell Patchou what to do.

He can listen but has no obligation to listen to us.

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
I'm sure that many other members will agree with me when I say that involving many more people in Messenger Plus! isn't a good thing.

---

I disagree...

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
I think the main pull towards Plus! for a lot of us was that it was community-driven. I don't know anything about the employees of Messenger Plus! but I do know that they're doing what they're doing for monetary gain and as a job; their hearts will never be in it as much as if Patchou had passed the gauntlet down to x amount of trusted people in a community like this.

The 'community spirit' will slowly evaporate away.

---

That may all be very true, but the fact is also that the development of Plus! was as good as nothing over the past months/year. And that was just because it got so big it wasn't possible anymore for only one guy programming the thing (and managing everything else around it at the same time).

Hence the reason why Patchou has made the move he made, for the benefit of Plus! itself. In that aspect, having multiple people working on Plus!, is a very good thing. If he wouldn't have done what he did then there would most-likely never be a Plus! 5 btw.

(I'm not saying anything about the reason why those 'other' people want to work for it though)...

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
Regardless of what you say. All this says to me is that he's not as personally attached to the software anymore. I don't blame him, but I think it seems like he's chasing other dreams now. A good choice.

---

That is both true and false...
He is personally still attached to the software in the way that he still cares about it. But he is not personally attached anymore in a legal way. So if something went wrong, you need to blame Yuna Software, not Patchou.

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
If Yuna Software were to say tomorrow "Let's make people pay for the forum", I don't think there's much that could be done to stop them, the same as if they wanted to make adware no longer optional and make Plus! more ad-driven...

---

Partially wrong. Yuna Software has no say what-so-ever about the forums (Patchou made sure of that). They do own the domain though, but not the forum itself, nor its content. Also, Patchou has stipulated some things in the contracts which prevents Yuna Software from going 'overboard'.

Again, all reasons that this is not a sell-out at all. A sell-out would mean that they can do whatever they want. They sure can not.

And also shows that one-liners like "Patchou is in no control" or "He doesn't own Plus! anymore" can seriously be misinterpreted. It isn't that black 'n white.

I think he sold out tbh.

The focus of plus now will be "make as much money possible"

Anyway, where is the news post telling us what has happened? or weren't we suppose to find out? Is this all suppose to be hush hush?


P.S This is funny, a couple of years ago they had an april fools joke about this.

quote:

---

Originally posted by krissy-afc
We don't pay for the software so we can't tell Patchou what to do.

He can listen but has no obligation to listen to us.

---

very true, but even if we would pay for it, then we still couldn't tell what they need to do! Even in that case, we are still not the owners or CEOs or whatever who call the shots and tell the programmers what to program. You always pay for an existing version of software and thus for the stuff they have done (eventhough you might not be satisfied with it).

Software is not to be confused with a service where there is a contract between you and those who want to service you in which it is explicitly stated what the service must be. Only in that case you can tell them what you want. With software this is not the case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
Anyway, where is the news post telling us what has happened? or weren't we suppose to find out? Is this all suppose to be hush hush?

---

There is absolutely nothing hush hush about it, the changes are not that noticable but are there for everybody to see. (eg: copyright notices, forum and website footers that all changed from 'Patchou' to 'Yuna Software Inc', the about box in Plus!, some of Patchou's post talking about it, etc).

Nevertheless everybody should know about the change. To get a bit up to speed read Patchou's blog for example. He also had announced the upcoming change months ago (though not officially in a news post, but in one of his posts on these forums iirc).

EDIT: Made a bit clear because some people misinterpreted what I said.
And Discrate, iirc is not irc. IIRC is extremely common internet jargon for "if I recall/remember correctly".

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by krissy-afc
We don't pay for the software so we can't tell Patchou what to do.

He can listen but has no obligation to listen to us.

---

very true, but even if we would pay for it, then we still couldn't tell what they need to do! Even in that case, we are still not the owners or CEOs or whatever who call the shots and tell the programmers what to program. You always pay for an existing version of software and thus for the stuff they have done (eventhough you might not be satisfied with it).

Software is not to be confused with a service where there is a contract between you and those who want to service you in which it is explicitly stated what the service must be. Only in that case you can tell them what you want. With software this is not the case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
Anyway, where is the news post telling us what has happened? or weren't we suppose to find out? Is this all suppose to be hush hush?

---

There is absolutely nothing hush hush about it. In fact, everybody should know the change. Read Patchou's blog for example. He also had announced the change months ago (though not officially in a news post, but in one of his posts on this forums iirc).

---

Well i only just found out about this by reading andrey and WDZ talkign about it in the shoutbox. I think a post in the announcement section needs to be made. Not everyone knows about patchous blog and irc.

Also i have been reading other forum posts such as willz on his forum. He also said that many people were left in the dark. An official forum post needs to be made asap, i would like to know what the capitalist have in store for us.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by krissy-afc
We don't pay for the software so we can't tell Patchou what to do.

He can listen but has no obligation to listen to us.

---

very true, but even if we would pay for it, then we still couldn't tell what they need to do! Even in that case, we are still not the owners or CEOs or whatever who call the shots and tell the programmers what to program. You always pay for an existing version of software and thus for the stuff they have done (eventhough you might not be satisfied with it).

Software is not to be confused with a service where there is a contract between you and those who want to service you in which it is explicitly stated what the service must be. Only in that case you can tell them what you want. With software this is not the case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
Anyway, where is the news post telling us what has happened? or weren't we suppose to find out? Is this all suppose to be hush hush?

---

There is absolutely nothing hush hush about it. In fact, everybody should know about the change. Read Patchou's blog for example. He also had announced the change months ago (though not officially in a news post, but in one of his posts on these forums iirc).

---

Yeah well it could be a service to use the program

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by krissy-afc
We don't pay for the software so we can't tell Patchou what to do.

He can listen but has no obligation to listen to us.

---

very true, but even if we would pay for it, then we still couldn't tell what they need to do! Even in that case, we are still not the owners or CEOs or whatever who call the shots and tell the programmers what to program. You always pay for an existing version of software and thus for the stuff they have done (eventhough you might not be satisfied with it).

Software is not to be confused with a service where there is a contract between you and those who want to service you in which it is explicitly stated what the service must be. Only in that case you can tell them what you want. With software this is not the case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
Anyway, where is the news post telling us what has happened? or weren't we suppose to find out? Is this all suppose to be hush hush?

---

There is absolutely nothing hush hush about it. In fact, everybody should know the change. Read Patchou's blog for example. He also had announced the change months ago (though not officially in a news post, but in one of his posts on this forums iirc).

---

Well i only just found out about this by reading andrey and WDZ talkign about it in the shoutbox. I think a post in the announcement section needs to be made. Not everyone knows about patchous blog and irc.

Also i have been reading other forum posts such as willz on his forum. He also said that many people were left in the dark. An official forum post needs to be made asap, i would like to know what the capitalist have in store for us.

---

I do actually agree with you for once

[KIND OF OFF TOPIC]

quote:

---

Originally posted by krissy-afc
Yeah well it could be a service to use the program

---

Nope, it actually can not. You always use and pay for a program as it is, not as it could be.

A service is where you pay people to explicitly do something for you in the future. In this case you have the right to tell and demand the people what to do in a contract. And you do pay them for doing the stuff which is in the contract. If they do not do it, they breach the contract. You actually hire the people.

A software program is something different. Here you pay people for stuff which they already have done in the past. If you don't agree with the stuff they have done, you don't pay for the program but you would also have no right in using it. Unless you own the people (aka they are your own employees), you can not demand them what to do in a next version.

So, even if Plus! becomes payware. You still wouldn't have the right to demand something in a next version. They can listen, true, and it would show custom care, but they are not obligated to do so in any way.

[/OFF TOPIC]