Shoutbox

Greetings you.
i would just like to share my admiration of you and your time spent on this fine program.

but just to make this simple,
i would like a checkbox in the options menu that says "Block Close Window message"

this feature would stop the sending of backend data from my messenger to another user, which indicates to the person im talking to that i have closed my chat window.

i find this to be a very anti scocial feature as this message alone makes the reciepeint think that i dont want to talk to them anymore, when in fact i am just looking for more screen space.

simularely, if in MSN 7, by default if it informs you of others closing windows, it'd prolly be a good idea to have an option to nuke that too.

anyway, thanks for your time, and your work to make our lives better.

first this would go Into Plug General Talk or PLugins

Second i dont think patchou would do this due to.

1. You can't (maybe you can)
2. If someone could do it, it would be the ones who make stuffplug since their plugin is the one with the OpenConvo thing.

And welcome to the forums

Welcome Kae To the forums..

But as for your idea maybe it is possible..I do understand what you are saying..I feel like I am being rude when I do it as well.

.Its not that I dont want to talk to people I simply need more screen space..


Maybe a On and off option would be viable?

thanks for the welcome ^.^

Sam;
as for the idea, i dont think its a plugin. i dont have any plugins installed, and a contact i have seems to inform me that MSN 7 has this reporting ability.

i know THE MAN, Patchou as the ability to control all data sent to and from messenger.
so, logically, there is some kind of data packet sent out when i close my window.
i believe ive seen these when using my WinPCap network spy, on my own computer.

secondly, if its not a packet, then it's a lack of packets. a lack of some kind of refresh data, which i dout, but somthing like a picture request.
im positive this can be engineered and all teh features we have today rock in the same mannor.


kitty;
i just dont know why they added this 'feature' to a messenger.
to me, its complete spyware!
ive never heard of a wide distro application giving all its users the ability to know what and when you do things on your computer!

i mean, WTF? what were they thinking?
i give people the right to see things i post, see my icons, see my text, laughter, even sounds (which i disable btw). and on the inverse, i allow poeple to send me the same thing.
i also have to click a verification window whenever someone wants the ability to see when i am online.

how the heck did it go from that to knowing when you have a window open? having automated systems report back information i -absolutely- dont want poeple to know?

who the F gave the right to some application, which i didnt even upgrade to (still using 6.2) to mess with my friendships?

this is sooooooo a huge issue to me, that it caused enough anger that i took the step to joining this forum.

anyhoo, that is just me, and my rant, and my reasons...

(thanks go out to all who listen)

I doubt this will happen as this "message" is sent to the servers closing your connection saving MSN Messenger's servers precious bandwidth. If everyone started blocking this request then you and everyone else would have a slower IM experience.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kae
i know THE MAN, Patchou as the ability to control all data sent to and from messenger.

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No, he hasn't. The data send from and to MSN Messenger is in most cases actually mandatory. removing or tampering with this data will only cause you to be disconnected in most cases.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kae
im positive this can be engineered and all teh features we have today rock in the same mannor.

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There is no features in Messenger Plus which involves tampering with the protocol. And Patchou mostly wants to keep it that way.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kae
i just dont know why they added this 'feature' to a messenger.
to me, its complete spyware!

---

Like Chestah has said, this is part of how the protocol works and actually safes precious bandwidth. The close window messages is the same as the one which closes the "chat-line" between you and your contacts. If this would be removed the connection would stay open for a long period, resulting in a massive increase in bandwidth usage.

Even if you intercept this message and remove it from the stream, the servers will still disconnect the idle chat and the same message is send again and your contact can thus interpret it it again as a closed window message (because it actually is). Removing this one is impossible and will result in an always open connection to anybody you ever speek to.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kae
i mean, WTF? what were they thinking?

i give people the right to see things i post, see my icons, see my text, laughter, even sounds (which i disable btw). and on the inverse, i allow poeple to send me the same thing.
i also have to click a verification window whenever someone wants the ability to see when i am online.

how the heck did it go from that to knowing when you have a window open? having automated systems report back information i -absolutely- dont want poeple to know?

who the F gave the right to some application, which i didnt even upgrade to (still using 6.2) to mess with my friendships?

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You are taking this way out of context...

The message you are talking about is part of the protocol and is never meant to be used as a "closed window notifier", because it isn't only that. It is a closed connection message so the other MSN Messenger knows when to close down a connection, it is a very intristic function of how chatting works.

Also, it is not MSN Messenger who implemented this visible message and usage of that specific package to detect when someone closed your window. It is made by people who have got nothing todo with MSN Messenger appart that they hack into its protocol (a which should be hidden to the normal user anyway). eg: It is TB who made the Messenger Plus! plugin called StuffPlug who implemented this detection for closed windows, not MSN Messenger.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kae
this is sooooooo a huge issue to me, that it caused enough anger that i took the step to joining this forum.

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I noticed ....

But maybe you could inform your contacts that this message doesn't mean that you don't want to talk to them, but means that you want more space on your desktop. This is far more productive in the end as in this way your unknowingly contacts will now also know that closing a window doesn't nessecairly mean that people don't wanna chat with them. So instead of ranting and getting all excited, tell your contacts how they need to interpret this message from StuffPlug, it is better for your contacts and better for your heart...

Chestah;
sounds... like an issue. :\

Cookie;
thanks for taking the effort to shred my post one piece at a time.
now, my turn.

Quote 1 & 2,
sending custom sounds, and the 5 digit alpha numeric code that you can create custom for your own pluging to plugin comunication -is- indeed tampering with protocal. there are plenty of other examples, but i dont have the time.

Quote 3,
nothing is impossible. using that word is a sign of a closed mind.
if i can convince my contact to use MsgPlus, and plus by default just blocks that little sentance from appearing, via options mod of V7 or a data hook. point is, there is always a way.

Quote 4,
not out of context.
person a, gets information on me that turns them sour in the conversation. period.

4b,
thank you for that tidbit, knowing it was someone elses plugin was the best part of that post.

...

prolly even makes this thread moot.

welp, i got the help i needed from the help forum on exactly the topics i was looking for.

*bows* my hat to you cookie.

Unless TB wants to code this but, sending to the switchboard socket a "OUT" message makes you leave, unless he makes a function that removes the "OUT" message of being sent, and let the conversation end up timing out.

a plugin that just stops that 'out' message, being the sole perpous of that plugin, ... would be killer.


i was thinking..

what happens when i just minimize a chat window...

for like..

2 days.

the 'close window' message never gets sent, and im sure there is a timeout somewhere...


just somthing to chew on

kae, i noticed u lack some technical info, and so i suggest instead of your factual tone, you are better off using a questioning tone... allow me to explain:
In the world MSN IM there are five distinct categories that u seems to totally confuse: (1)MSN Protocol (2)MSNM (3)Plus! (4)Plus! Plugins (5)Addons That Have Nothing To Do With Plus!

MSN Protocol, and MSN Messenger are programmed by Microsoft, Patchou has no control what so ever on how those behave.
MSN Protocol should be invisible to the user, yet 3rd party softwares have been manipulating\exposing it. Patchou doesnt do tht dot on the line. two examples of programs that do that are: Stuff Plugin (a plus! plugin, not plus itself) and Messenger Discovery (a completely different Plugin)

MSN Messenger does not have any option to tell the user if you closed a window or anything (it does recieve a signal but doesnt show it to the user, 3rd party softwares have been exploiting that)
please note that the "custom emoticons" feature you are talking about is a MSN Messenger feature, and Plus! is no way related to its existance.

Plus! is a software developed by patchou, it doesnot mess with the protocol, it just uses API (Application Programming Interface) which are functions PROVIDED AND DOCUMENTED by microsoft's team, they are built in functions in the MSN messenger, and they are their with the purpose of tht other applications use them... so Plus! doesnt do anything tht MSN's team didnt intend to happen.

Plus! plugins are not developed by patchou... they are programs' tht use Plus!'s API, just like how Plus! uses MSN Messenger's API... so patchou has no control at the Plus! plugins also.

so to put it in simple terms, please understand those points:
(1) The details of the protocol are defined by microsoft, so if you want to complain, go ahead and complain to microsoft, not patchou
(2) Cookie didnt say impossible, he kinda said impractical, and there is a difference,,, besides, its true tht its not possible for patchou to change tht, bcuz its microsoft who is concerned.
(3) YOU DONT HAVE TO INSTALL ANYTHING for you closed window notification to be reported.... you are missing that point. the signal is sent wether you have plus! or not, and wether you have anyother 3rd party software or not. In other words, your friend has a software designed to show him that message, not the other way around.

edit: i know its a long post, but i suggest tht you kae read it all, so tht you can straighten up the mis-information