Shoutbox

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
If you're ever going to learn another programming language, you'll have to forget almost everything you learnt with VB

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Not everything man, at least the basics still apply

well, he said "almost" everything

TB, that is simply not true. The whole concept of programming and "thinking like a program" is EXACT the same as in every other language... (Even in languages like isolab)


Can I "kindly" ask to stop your l77t talk, we all know you are a very good C++ programmer (best on the forum, besides Patchou) and that you hate VB, but "trop is teveel" (dutch expression)... stop being the l77t highflyer "I wrote the best thing in the world and nothing can beat me or C++". I hope for you that you will never choose to become a teacher or you will have a nervous breakdown from the very first day......


and I though a while before posting this because I know you will jump directly on your horse whenever someone says something about C++ and/or your programming skills and/or something you've made, but I had to say it...

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
...in which there are already two mistakes in one simple if statement.
If you cannot see those mistakes, and you can't be bothered, I'd recommend never even looking at programming again and go live on dreaming of VB. if however you want to learn REAL programming, find out, if a computer can only store numbers, how can you match two strings? I'll give you two hints: arrays, ascii...

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The thing is that you already assume that an unschooled person already knows what if-then-else structures are (given this example). He doesn't not know that, and that are exactly the basic programming skills to be learned: splitting up problems in there seperate cases and constructing a workflow and understanding what "if-then-else", in this case, means. This is all learned much easier with VB without you needing to worry about pointers and other extra "bagage" (I call it bagage for now; I know those are the best thing in programmers heaven, but initialy the pupil doesn't need all the advanced stuff to learn how to program, it will only make it much harder if he also needs to worry about that).

It doesn't matter in what language it is learned, in some language (VB) it is easier to learn that then in others (C++). This has nothing todo with learning bad or wrong things; it is the concept of the if-then-else that is important (to learn).

On a sidenote, but related. You can even learn how to program without a programming language! In fact, pro programmers still use pen/paper to write workflows down; and that is the exact skill to be learned in programming. When writing down the workflow you don't bother about "oi, the pc only reconize 1's and 0's, how am I gonna make a string...", because that is not important...

Did you know that before the homecomputer was well developped and everybody could lay their hands on a programming language, that programming already was teached in college? The reason is what I said above....

And about the sort-command example. Yes, it is possible, and why should it be wrong when someone who begins to program uses it? When he is capable of programming, he quickly will learn that he can make his own sorting routine without the need of objects and stuff. But that's because he can grasp the concept of programming then.


Note: All this is not because I think that you can't learn C++ without first learning VB, of course you can. But my point is that VB is NOT shit, and is an excellent programming language and that it will not teach you bad stuff; It will not teach you ALL the stuff, but that is NOT the same as teaching bad stuff...

quote:

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Originally posted by ashmanto
hello, I have just started with programming at my school.. we use visual basic.. so I am basically a n00b.. but by reading this forum, I have got the feeling that Visual basic is a piece of shit, pardon my french..  so i was wondering wich program is the best for making a plugin..?

can anyone give me a brief answer? tnx

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you're learning how to program, and started with VB. It's a good begining, IMO. Start doing plugins with VB and when you become a more experience developer, learn VC++ and decide yourself with language you want to use (depending on what you want to do (read a bit more))

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
indeed, VB isn't piece of shit. It is a very decent programming language in which you can do lots of (advanced) things. Don't let VB-haters tell you that VB isn't good.

Of course VC++ can do some more things because it is more advanced. But because of that, it is also more difficult to learn.

But almost all things can be done in VB, including plugins and even writing big advanced programs.

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I agree with that post.

quote:

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Originally posted by ashmanto
jup, that was what i was thinking too, because isnt windows written in visual basic or something?? since its a microsoft program?

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Nope. Windows is written in C/C++/VC++ and asm. (the same as most of the OSes)

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
You can make DLL's, OCX's, whatever with VB...

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They're a bit "special" DLLs, OCXs, etc... but at the end they're DLLs, OCXs, ...

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Ask a proffesional programmer, who's been programming a bit longer, and there's a 90% chance he WILL agree on VB being shit.

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Well, VB is and is not shit. Depends on what you want to do with it. For example, if you want to make a simple application (or plugin for plus) with a couple of windows, and draw some simple pictures/graphics etc... and you have to do it in 30 minutes, then VB is the best option and VC++ is pure shit. However, if you want to develop an optimized application, with very advanced features (like plus), etc... then VB is who is shit and VC++ is the best option.

Each programming language is for each thing you want to do. You can't say that this or that language is shit just because you don't find it usefull for your work. In each situation, some language can fit better/worse than another one, and it's up to the good programmer to pick up and use the best that fits his/her needs.

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Ask a prof programmer and he will say that C++ is more powerful, but he wil NOT say that VB is shit. He will say that VB is very good to start learning and very easy to learn and understand the concept of programming and that you can still do lots of things in it.

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I consider myself a professional developer and I agree with Cookie. The fact that I program in VB (when I do) is due to I feel more confortable with the things I have to do. I prefer spending some time in writting an algorithm that does something, than in writting the code needed to control a combobox or whatever (just an example in the programs that I made and you all know).

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
What real programming is how to solve certain problems, like sorting arrays. in VB you can do this, easily, by making a list object and calling sort. but now be honest, how much of that did YOU do?
nothing, you just told vb to sort it for you, which is yet just another command.
The thing I said about having to forget everything about basic before starting real programming is best explained using simple string matching. One of the most made mistakes among vb people trying to switch to C is:
code:

if ("string" = "string" ) { };


in which there are already two mistakes in one simple if statement.
If you cannot see those mistakes, and you can't be bothered, I'd recommend never even looking at programming again and go live on dreaming of VB. if however you want to learn REAL programming, find out, if a computer can only store numbers, how can you match two strings? I'll give you two hints: arrays, ascii...

nothing more to be said...

EDIT: just one more thing to be said, this is not for getting my right, this is not because I hate VB or love C++, but VB is simply not programming, and if someone wants to learn programming he should learn it the proper way...

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all that is due to VB is a higher level language than C. Just that. It's the same as Java. In Java you can use clases to do everything and the programmer lose the control over pointers, strings vs character arrays, etc... That's why if you want/need to do the things yourself, go with C, if you prefer the other point of view, use Java, VB, etc...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
On a sidenote, but related. You can even learn how to program without a programming language! In fact, pro programmers still use pen/paper to write workflows down; and that is the exact skill to be learned in programming. When writing down the workflow you don't bother about "oi, the pc only reconize 1's and 0's, how am I gonna make a string...", because that is not important...

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Soo true....
* Choli remembers those ugly subjects at the Uni about that

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer

code:

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if ("string" = "string" ) { };

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Hey whats wrong with that?
Well i would have to agree with TB in a point...
Its hard to switch from vb to C/C++...
Like i opened once C or C++ (the splash screen said that it was C++ but whatever... ) and selected a console application then a "Hello world!" example.
Well it made me that example but i couldnt understand almost anything!

You need to use TWO equal sign in "condition" statements. C-like language differentiate = (assigning operator) and == (equality operator) a lot.


Now, I think switching VB to C++ is not easy either, but that again depends on how deep you get into in VB. For example, I'd been coding in VB for six years before I chose to fully switch to C++, and that was rather a pain at first - I was too accustomed to VB's language structure.

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Originally posted by Mike2
Its hard to switch from vb to C/C++...

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what is hard is not switch from vb to c, but just start with c (doesn't matter from which language you come from). Understanding things like

code:

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while(*dst++=*src++);/*just an example with pointers and unary operators*/

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that is really the hard part. Thinking about what you have to do * to solve a problem is the same in all languages and that can be learnt in vb

* -> note the difference between what you have to do and what you have to type

Sorry to bring this back, but I've found an excellent article and I wanted to post it here: http://www.codexterity.com/raw-delphi/index.htm

sorry tb, but I completely agree with CR in this case...

I started playing with qbasic when I was about 6/7 years old. After that I did a bit of VB and last year I followed an university course c++ datastructures during schooltime.

Of course I liked c++ a LOT immediately, because you learn to program 'the basics'. I learnt a lot during that course and think I'm a quite good c++ programmer now. Still I made some of my plugins with VB, just because it goes faster for me (GUI creating, standard functions, etc). And best of all, they still work fine!
So I don't see the reason why I should make small programs with c++ instead of vb when I can make them faster with vb.

And to my opinion the programming itself isn't the most important task in creating an application, the designing of the program is. And for the design it doesn't matter a lot in which language you want to write a program, it'll all comes down to the same thing more or less...