Shoutbox

Why why why do people still want stuff like this? Please tell me if i'm blocked..please let me see what my contact typed before he/she sends it....please let me know if a conversation screen is opened with me?

What good is this to you? You wanna falsely accuse your contact of blocking you or opening a conversation and not speaking?

Until a message is send all this stuff really is of no importance to you...

first of all, can you loose the attidude please. I like a good discussion, but when people take your tone its quite immature.

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Oh brother... What do you think all my posts are about? Or do you need yet another half page long post explaning it in detail?

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If you cant be arsed to bring up any facts, so why should I be arsed to go searching all your posts, filtering out the ones with simple 'it doesnt work' like replies.

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ecion, you obviously have some issue trying to understand posts. Or rather, did you even read posts properly at all? I very strongly begin to doubt that...

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you seem to have avoided the paragraph you quoted there. Oh I wonder why.

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Not around stupid people who persist in stating inaccurate stuff when the accurate explantion is given more than hundreds times already.

TBH, I even bet you don't even know what I'm talking about when I say that this issue has been dealt with on several messenger related forums years ago... So stop being the script-kiddy like dude.

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Oh i love how you say 'I even bet you dont even know what im talking about' - as it seems to be you who does understand me. Look. My earlier post of how to tell if its real or not. Those methods work, do they not? Yes. Therefor this addon can be used to tell if someone has opened a conversation window. What part of that dont you understand?

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1) I attack people like you, not people who have constructive things to say or do like nx01rules.
2) You can not use it properly as a window notifier. Stop being arse-stupid and do some research on the protocol and do some research on statistics if you persist in stating that.

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1) so its ok to attack people? How mature.
And you're saying I've added nothing constructive to this topic? First of all I explained how these features CAN be used, and I've breifly tried to help with the logic of issuing the notification.
2) loose the insults. and yes you can. I've explained this many time. How can you say it doesnt work, when you DO get notified when a window is opened. - And dont play the 'sometimes its for DP's' line, as I've already explain about that in previous posts.

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Probably because I'm sick an tired of replying to stuff like that when I already have replied to such stuff more times than needed before.

"Oh oh.. he replies with a one-liner... I'm therefore right"... Sure, sure budy... now reread all my posts in this thread. As a matter of fact your analogies have been replied to in detail even before you stated them, as they were already stated before. Again proof that you don't read jack-shit (or at least don't understand what is been said).

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If you're sick of it, stop replying.
And if my analogy has been replied to before i even stated it, then please link me to it, as I dont see it.

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You're so missing the point it gets rediculus...

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Not really. The point is you ALWAYS get a notifaction when a window is opened. Can you deny that? No.
Yes you get 'false alarms' but I have already stated how distinguish between these and the real deal.

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PS: I wouldn't even be surprised that you also still claim that block checkers work (block checkers which can be perfectly compared with window notifiers, as block checkers will also "always" inform the user when he is blocked besides the fact that they also report many false reports)....

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what? that is completly off topic. Seems like you're just trying to put me down again. Grow up.
Though explain how block checkers ALWAYS inform the user about being blocked? I've not looked into this as I have no need. So im curious. Though as far as im aware, block checkers only work if the user in question has 'All other users' on their allow list?

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PS2: and before YOU reply with "you constantly continue this, stop it", note that this discussion was once more ended several posts ago (and I had no intention to post further, unless it was to a question from nx01rules), until you came along and needed to start it all over again. As long as people reply with stuff like you, I always will reply with the stuff I have already said before...

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oh i am so very sorry for posting about how i disagree with you. No freedom of speech here then?

Markee:

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CookieRevised might come off as ignorant at times but he is extremely helpful in these forums giving a vast knowledge base.  He is right 99.9999999% of the time (if not more than that).  If you had half the sense of Cookie then you would accept what he says as the truth because I am sure that he has done some research into the area that he talks about.  And you yourself should not be so ignorant towards him because he does know his stuff and he does try to help people understand for themselves but obviously he doesn't please everyone with the way he does it.  Read the facts from many forums and websites before coming back here and telling Cookie he is wrong (I'm sure you will find the same thing elsewhere).

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Excuse me? "if you had half the sense of cookie"? You dont know me at all, so dont start judging me like that thanks. Also you're telling ME to read the facts, when obviously you have not read anything I've said. So please stop sucking up to him.





EDIT: new post by cookie, so i shall reply.

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The thing is that I'm sure he also did research about it, but the problem is understanding that if something doesn't work reliable, it doesn't work 100%. And in software, when something doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work.

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So going by that train of thought, Windows XP doesnt work. Internet Explorer doesnt work. Basically every peice of software doesnt work, as many peices of software, still contain bugs.

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Together with this is the title issue. This isn't just another random new feature which the creator can name whatever he wants it to be. "Open/Closed Window Notifier" is a well known term thruout the entire Messenger community for years and it stands (or rather it did stand) for a tool which detected 100% accurate when a window was opened or closed.

Many people (the n00bs to call them disrespectfull) did NOT know that at a certain point they didn't work 100% anymore and that is what helpers on forums have been telling people for several years now.

Making a tool like this and calling it again a window notifier is bluntly wrong and will do nothing more than misinforming all those "n00b" people. Calling a tool like that and saying it does work undermines everything which dedicated helpers have been trying to teach people over the past years...

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I understand that. And agree with you. (it is the whole 'it doesnt work' im interested in)

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
obviously we are not talking about just bugs...

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true... point taken...

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Originally posted by ecion
first of all, can you loose the attidude please. I like a good discussion, but when people take your tone its quite immature.
(...)
If you cant be arsed to bring up any facts, so why should I be arsed to go searching all your posts, filtering out the ones with simple 'it doesnt work' like replies.

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What you try to discuss has been extensivly discussed before in this pages long thread, including stating all the facts from my part, I have no intention to repeat everything again and then to be called a whiner again...

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Originally posted by ecion
you seem to have avoided the paragraph you quoted there. Oh I wonder why.

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ermmm, who needs to grow up here?

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Originally posted by ecion
Oh i love how you say 'I even bet you dont even know what im talking about' - as it seems to be you who does understand me.

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You claim open window notifiers still work, provided you can interpret and distinguish between true and false warnings.

The fact is that you can NEVER know for SURE, you only can GUESS. The methods you talk about are not solid and simply are and always will be guesswork. And as far as I know guessing is not included in a working program...

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Originally posted by ecion
Look. My earlier post of how to tell if its real or not. Those methods work, do they not? Yes.

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No!

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Originally posted by ecion
And you're saying I've added nothing constructive to this topic? First of all I explained how these features CAN be used, and I've breifly tried to help with the logic of issuing the notification.

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Which was already stated before and which was already replied upon before... hence: no, nothing new constructive...

(just as these replies are not constructive as I once again am repeating myself).

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Originally posted by ecion
If you're sick of it, stop replying.
And if my analogy has been replied to before i even stated it, then please link me to it, as I dont see it.

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I'm not going to search the thread on your behalf, do your own homework. I have put already more than enough time in this... (as a matter of fact, everything, yes everything, said in this thread has already been discussed many years ago also and on many different forums)...

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Originally posted by ecion
Not really. The point is you ALWAYS get a notifaction when a window is opened. Can you deny that? No.
Yes you get 'false alarms' but I have already stated how distinguish between these and the real deal.

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Hence it doesn't work.

If you get a job to make a search engine to search for cars and it also replies with boats, trucs, airplanes, don't tell me your boss is going to be happy and say "wow, a working car search engine, nice, hear is $1000".... Common sense...

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Originally posted by ecion

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PS: I wouldn't even be surprised that you also still claim that block checkers work

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what? that is completly off topic. Seems like you're just trying to put me down again. Grow up.

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It's perfectly on topic as it is almost a perfect analogy...

(but I also could have replied with the stupid "what? you don't have anything to counter that? So you know I'm right" reply since I need to grow up...)

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Originally posted by ecion
oh i am so very sorry for posting about how i disagree with you. No freedom of speech here then?

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Of course you can disagree all you want, don't turn this into a freedom of speech issue... But don't expect I'm not going to reply to it (in short sentences as everything has been said before).

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Originally posted by ecion
So going by that train of thought, Windows XP doesnt work. Internet Explorer doesnt work. Basically every peice of software doesnt work, as many peices of software, still contain bugs.

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We are very obviously not talking about bugs...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
A bug is something which happens which is not supposed to be happening, a programming error... False open window notifs all the time are SUPPOSED to be happening with a session notifier. There are no programming errors in a session notifier, yet it does not work as a window notifier as there are no unique messages to specify opened/closed windows.

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Originally posted by lordy16 here
Window Open/closed Notifiers
OK, because of all the people DEMANDING that the Window Open (WON) and Close (WCN) notifiers be kept in StuffPlug, I've decided to make this thread (despite the fact that this information IS already on the forum, people have also been demanding we post it here).

Reason for WON being removed

When MSN Messenger 7.5 came along with contact cards and the ability to see your contact's display pictures in your contact list, Microsoft changed the MSN Messenger protocol to accomodate these new features.

They made it so that a connection is made between each person's computer when someone downloaded a person's display picture so it could be viewed in the contact window or when the person's contact card was clicked.

This connection was causing StuffPlug to give false alerts of a person opening your conversation window.

There is no way for stuffplug to determine a genuine conversation window opening connection and one merely downloading a person's display pic off their computer.

This is not something that can be worked around.

Reason for WCN being removed

Once again, when 7.5 came around with the new MSN Messenger Protocol, the WCN was rendered useless.

When a conversation window has been idle for a certain length of time, MSN Messenger closes the connection between the two computers. This gives stuffplug a false indication that the conversation window has been closed.

Once again, possible solutions to the problem have been looked at, and none have worked.


I hope this post keeps people happy, now you've got the detailed explaination you were after.

Please note that these features will NOT be coming back, so don't post in here asking for them to be, or the post WILL be deleted
Posted by lordy16 on July 2, 2006

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I know this isn't Cookie's reply but I couldn't be bothered looking it up and I personally found this to be quite informative and of use anyway. Btw the reason why i was 'sucking up' to Cookie was because of his history in these forums and how he has helped others (something which you don't hve as yet and currently are far from showing)

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You claim open window notifiers still work provided you can interpret and distinguish between true and false warnings.

The fact is that you can NEVER know for SURE, you only GUESS. As far as I know guessing is not included in a working program...

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Wrong. Its not guessing. If you get a window opened notification and then you click it, and it says they're typing, then they obviously DID open your window.

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No!

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You cant explain why then?

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Which was already stated before and which was already replied upon before... hence, no, nothing new...

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Point out where what I said in my first post was already mentioned in this thread.

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I'm not going to search the thread for your behalf, do your own homework. I have put already more than enough time in this... (as a matter of fact, everything, yes everything, said in this thread has already been discussed many years ago also... and on many different forums)...

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And im not going to look for something in this thread which probably doesnt exist.
As for being discussed on other forums, im not denying that it probably has been.

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Hence it doesn't work.

If you get a job to make a search engine to search for cars and it also replies with boats, trucs, airplanes, don't tell me your boss is going to be happy and say "wow, a working car search engine, nice, hear is $1000".... Common sense...

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Yea ok thats a fair point. On similar, but slightly different analogy, if you needed to search for cars, and the only way you could search for cars was to use a search which also incuded boats, trucks, and planes, then you'd still use it, as you'd know which ones are actually cars.

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it's perfectly on topic as it is almost a perfect analogy...

(but I also could have replied with the stupid "what? you don't have anything to counter that? So you know I'm right" reply...)

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Explain how its a perfect analogy, as I dont use such things. and that is the reason i've not countered it so dont try that one. like i said in the previous post, I am not up on the whole blockchecking situation.

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We are very obviously not talking about bugs...

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Yea i guess so.

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A bug is something which happens which is not supposed to be happening, a programming error... False open window notifs all the time are SUPPOSED to be happening with a session notifier. There are no programming errors in a session notifier, yet it does not work as a window notifier as there are no unique messages to specify opened/closed windows.

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going round in circles here.. yes in its present form, it is not a reliable window open notifier. However it can still be used as one.



(as for the parts of your post i havnt quoted, that is because they are  more immature replies which i cant be arsed with)




markee;
that post from stuffplug's site is basically saying it was removed due to being innaccurate. - As I have stated, these features can still be used as long as you understand them, like how i said in my first post in this thread.

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Originally posted by ecion
Wrong. Its not guessing. If you get a window opened notification and then you click it, and it says they're typing, then they obviously DID open your window.

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sure and in the process you forget about all the other notifications.... Even the notifications of a truely openend windows but where the user does not type anything...

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Originally posted by ecion

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No!

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You cant explain why then?

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Oh dude, will you loose those absolutely childish remarks already and read some posts for a change? I can explain this perfectly and I have done so in previous posts... I don't feel like repeating all that yet again. Do some reading...

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Originally posted by ecion
And im not going to look for something in this thread which probably doesnt exist.

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Yeah, just as you can always perfectly guess when a notif is correct or not, you perfectly know what has been said in this thread without looking at it... congratulations... (you need to play on the lottery).

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Originally posted by ecion

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If you get a job to make a search engine to search for cars and it also replies with boats, trucs, airplanes, don't tell me your boss is going to be happy and say "wow, a working car search engine, nice, hear is $1000".... Common sense...

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Yea ok thats a fair point.

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Huston, we have a connection...

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Originally posted by ecion
On similar, but slightly different analogy, if you needed to search for cars, and the only way you could search for cars was to use a search which also incuded boats, trucks, and planes, then you'd still use it, as you'd know which ones are actually cars.

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I would care less if people use it or not but I would never ever called that a working car search engine... As when searching with this search engine there is no clear distinction between a car, boat or whatever, they all are listed as brand names. And that is the whole point: you don't know...

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Originally posted by ecion
(block checkers) Explain how its a perfect analogy, as I dont use such things. and that is the reason i've not countered it so dont try that one. like i said in the previous post, I am not up on the whole blockchecking situation.

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read the sticky thread on the forum about this...

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Originally posted by ecion
yes in its present form, it is not a reliable window open notifier. However it can still be used as one.

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1) its present form is the form it always will be in.
2) if it is not a reliable window notifer I feel to see how it can be used a s a reliable window notifier.

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Originally posted by ecion
that post from stuffplug's site is basically saying it was removed due to being innaccurate. - As I have stated, these features can still be used as long as you understand them, like how i said in my first post in this thread.

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the whole point is that there is NO clear way to understand them. You can NEVER EVER be sure ALL THE TIME.

(and if you reply with the biased argument that it works for you 90% of time, I can perfectly reply it works at the most 50% of the time for me)

If there was a way to "understand" them, then it could also be programmed and window notifiers would still exist.

I've been keeping track of this thread for a while now, and approaching 250 posts, with little but arguing has officially pissed me off. If this doesn't stop, I'll report the whole thread as spam.

I don't care what people's arguments are about this. Hell I don't even care what you call it. Name it 'Trident Missile Launcher' for all I care. Just stop fucking arguing!

Edit; And don't think I'm singling anyone out here. Every single post made in retaliation to another I view as at fault. As a result, almost all of us, including me, are guilty of continuing this for far too long.

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sure and in the process you forget about all the other notifications.... Even the notifications of a truely openend windows but where the user does not type anything...

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Yup. - I never said those other notifcations didnt appear now did i? I'm just saying how you can tell if someone did open your window or not, providing they typed.
If they dont type then obviously you cannot be sure they opened your window. But then would this bother you? You dont need to know that then. (though on that note, you dont need to know when a window is opened at all.. the closed notifer is more useful to me. but still the window opened part can be used to certain degree of accuracy)

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Oh dude, will you loose those absolutely childish remarks already and read some posts for a change?

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And you can stop being a hypocrite. You're also being immature about this.

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Yeah, just as you can always perfectly guess when a notif is correct or not, you perfectly know what has been said in this thread without looking at it... congratulations... (you need to play on the lottery).

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More like im sure i would of seen it first time of reading this thread. -_-'
Oh what was that you said about childish remarks?

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Huston, we have a connection...

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Again, what was that you said about childish remarks?

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read the sticky thread on the forum about this...

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Ah yes, as I mentioned earlier (i was unsure if things had changed since then) block checkers only work if the suspect is allowing all users to see their status. Though this is irrelivent, is it not?

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1) it's present form is the form it always will be in
2) if it is not a reliable window notifer I feel to see how it can be used a s a reliable window notifier.

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1) I never aid it was going to change, did I?
2) yea i worded that wrong. - What I mean is, although it gives false alerts, you can tell when some of those alerts are real.

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the whole freeking point is that there is NO way to understand them. You can NEVER EVER be sure ALL THE TIME.

If there was a way to "understand" them, then it could also be programmed.

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Did i say you could understand them ALL THE TIME? No. But they can be understood some of the time, ie when a user types. - To this makes these features useful.



RaceProUK, I understand you dont want immature arguments clogging up this forum. However I feel it still a good discussion, as we are all trying to make others see our point of view it is helping us all learn stuff about the reliability. Though if this thread drops down to simple flames and name calling then yes, i agree it should be closed. But for now I think it is ok?

I don't. People are just arguing past each other now, and nothing constructive is forthcoming.

Thread reported.