Shoutbox

tgnb: I think you have a too much optimistic vision of the world.., people beleive what they read, especially when the source is well known. If Microsoft antispyware was to say that Firefox is a spyware, then most people would be afraid and would uninstall it. You say it yourself, people tend to be naive (me being the first one) and antivirussoftware are taking thisfact to their own advantage. They find "dangerous cookies" on your computer, "128 registry key of death", etc... the more they find, the better people think they are. I don't know many people who second guess what their antispyware/antivirus software tell them to do. Here lies the problem. Icould probably easily demonstrates this by making an auto-update of Plus! that would display "Firefox was detected on your system, it is dangerous, do you want to remove it" and I'm pretty sure 90% of my users would agree to uninstall. As I said, this is just unfairand in my opinion, a limit must be placed somewhere.

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tgnb: I think you have a too much optimistic vision of the world

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It is unfortunate that you think so. I condiser myself neither optimistic nor pessimistic but instead try to be realistic. Being realistic, i know that people dont like adware. This is why they install anti-spyware/adware software to begin with. Those people might have installed your software without knowing that you bundled adware because they dont read what they click on. So this spyware program from microsoft is kind enough to tell them that you are an adware bundler.

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If Microsoft antispyware was to say that Firefox is a spyware, then most people would be afraid and would uninstall it.

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But Microsoft antispyware has no reason to say that Firefix is a spyware. If firefox were to bundle adware then it would be detected the same way as you. The fact is the program alerts people of adware bundlers because peple WANT to be alerted. Their customers WANT to know what software on their system is doing things they might not realize. Microsofts software does exactly that. I would argue that there are more users of Anti spyware than there are of Plus. So your users who dont want Plus to be detected are in the minority. There are obviously enough people out there who are happy with what the software does. Thats why they install and use it in the first place. They don't want adware and they want to know who adware bundlers are so they can avoid them if they choose to.

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You say it yourself, people tend to be naive (me being the first one) and antivirussoftware are taking thisfact to their own advantage. They find "dangerous cookies" on your computer, "128 registry key of death", etc... the more they find, the better people think they are.

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I disagree with you that Anti Virus vendors take advantage of this. Quite contrary I think YOU are taking advantage of that fact by bundling the adware although we all know most people dont want adware on their computers. Regular people are unable to tell the difference between BAD adware and GOOD adware anyway. People dont want ANY adware.

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I don't know many people who second guess what their antispyware/antivirus software tell them to do.

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And thats where part of your fear comes in. You think people will trust their anti-spyware program more than they will trust you. And I dont blame them.

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Here lies the problem. Icould probably easily demonstrates this by making an auto-update of Plus! that would display "Firefox was detected on your system, it is dangerous, do you want to remove it" and I'm pretty sure 90% of my users would agree to uninstall.

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And after some time, people would realize that this is not true and reinstall Firefox. And then they have lost your trust and wont believe you ever again. And the same thing will happen to Microsoft anti spyware if they wrongfully label software.

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As I said, this is just unfairand in my opinion, a limit must be placed somewhere.

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Fortunately it is a system of checks and balances. A consumer will reject software if it doesnt do what it advertises. If anti virus and anti spyware companies really would take advantage of the consumers then the consumer would eventually figure it out and reject such programs.
This program labeling you as an adware bundler, is the consumer's way of telling you they dont want adware. You always said not many people here complain. Well now you know why. People never tell you directly. They tell you in different ways. And this is how they are telling you.

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Alot of people would pay for Messenger Plus!
But as Patchou said, not many people will pay for Addon's for another program...

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Bundling adware and selling software arent the only methods to make enough money. Start looking around at other software packages how they make a living. There are hundreds of different ways to make enough money to keep developing and make enough money to have a nice life. Think outside the box.

tgnb, i agree with patchou: ur views are perfectionistic, not realistic as u think they are. this does not mean they are completely unrealistic, u do have a good point here. still popularity does count here, its like the "rules of the wild", honestly patchou cannot fight microsoft. i mean, if patchou attacks gives out a message saying: "watch out you have outlook express, this program is used to spy on your emails", as u said, ppl will figure the trick out, and dump patchou. on the other hand, if microsoft in its antipsyware says that messenger plus! installs adware, (assuming if this was untrue) ppl will dump patchou, and if they figure the trick out patchou's career will not return as it used to be because the customer base of patchou is much smaller than that of microsoft, which will force patchou to get out of buissiness quickly, but will make it near impossible to wipe out microsoft out of buissness...
see what i mean?!?!
in other words, big companies have the capability to suvive a small hoax untill the hoax is shown to be wrong. but a small company will get out of buissiness before a hoax is shown to be wrong. so its an unfair battle.

this whole paragraph does not mean that i think adware in plus! is a the best solution there is. and i agree that antispywares should warn about adware bundlers. someone who doesnt know that plus! bundles an optional adware, will want to know that. in general adware bundlers, hide the fact that they contain adware, but plus! does not, thats the positive thing to consider.

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Originally posted by tgnb
Bundling adware and selling software arent the only methods to make enough money. Start looking around at other software packages how they make a living. There are hundreds of different ways to make enough money to keep developing and make enough money to have a nice life. Think outside the box.

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a lot of people say this, but never give example. Patchou used to accept donations, but he only got something like $100 in the space of 1-2 years, that is hardly enough to make a living out of.
There are adverts on the site but people still complain about that. I guess if you become really big, people start to resent your success and will always complain no matter how hard you try

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Originally posted by tgnb
It also detects WinPcap as spyware in that sense. WinPcap doesn't even bundle adware. Its 100% legitimate software. The reason it is classified as spyware is because its not a common tool an average user would have installed. It is a powerful tool that can "help" spyware do more damage.

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they even detect RealVNC (a remote desktop utility), which is used just like microsoft's remote desktop.
they categorized it as: "commercial remote control", they say(not all of it):  if this application has been installed by yourself then it is safe. if you are not aware of this application being installed then remove it!
thats exactly the point: this program aims at making you aware of what is on your system, even if it was not actually a threat. i think this is good (thumbs-up to microsoft antispyware on that).

think of it like a firewall: it will even ask u if u want to allow internet explorer to connect to internet. if you want to allow msn messenger connect to internet... and so on, knowing what internet explorer is, and what msn messenger is u allow them to run. this is very redundant but nessary. same goes for this situation, if u install an EVEN REMOTELY hazarduous program, u have to make a concious decision to leav it there, so u will have to tell the program to "always ignore" it.

it does warn you whenever a program attaches itself to startup, changes an internet explorer setting, or registers itself as a service.
it told me when i installed norton antivirus that: norton antivirus tried to register itself as a service, and the action was allowed because the program is recognized to be safe.
thats just like the "auto configuration" option in norton personal firewall.
so, microsoft think of it as a tool to help customers make concious decisions about programs on their computers. (GOD i repeated this sentence three times )

maybe MS blocks MSG+ because it 'hacks' Messenger

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Originally posted by elreteipos
maybe MS blocks MSG+ because it 'hacks' Messenger

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No, I don't think Microsoft has anything to do with it. They bought the software from Giant, and so far they haven't really changed anything.

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Originally posted by elreteipos
maybe MS blocks MSG+ because it 'hacks' Messenger

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No it doesn't, I've tried it, it detects the installer as an adware bundler and thats it afaik, the other threat is c2.lop.com if you install it... which i have multiple times to prove a point ...

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Originally posted by elreteipos
maybe MS blocks MSG+ because it 'hacks' Messenger

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patchou doesnt include any hack feature, all is legal in it

Did giant antispyware detect it before ms got thier hands on it? If not it would make me wonder.