Shoutbox

See http://www.ubuntulinux.org and read the notice about Ubuntu 5.04-preview

There it makes much sense to use torrents, since you are downloading CD-images and that's a high cost for bandwith. If you use BitTorrent as a download manager for software you get from editors' websites, than it's just perfect. Another different case is if you use to visit links-repositories or use the search engine integrated in some P2P clients from where you can't realise which files are official, which files are copies from the originals (like zipped the original file, etc.) and which files are plain fakes.

In our particular case, msgplus.net doesn't actually need to use BitTorrent because it can offer as much bw as your peers would. And the file to download is really small compared to the Ubuntu-Linux CD-images.

This is for me the main reason not to put up a torrent download for MP!

There is also the factor that whenever an official torrent is available, people _will_ attempt (and succeed) in creating fakes, just to countradict it, thus increasing the number of fakes.

And the users will not know that those are fake. At least most user will not, as the minority of others indeed will compare different torrents before downloading. But remember that Plus! is used mostly by people who only know how to turn on their computer so to speak, they will not know how to search for proper official stuff.

You need to look at the whole picture, not at "bittorrent is cool because company X provides his big product Y on it"

But whatever guys,

I only say what I experienced for more then the last year on various networks and from what I know from other officaly distributed torrent packages. I know how 'fakers' think and how they find it cool to make fakes and I know how easy it is to spread something corrupted (I've done the same in the past).

Do as you please, but if I find an increasing amount of fake stuff (other and more then the useual) I know what the cause was ...

MsgPlus + Bittorrent = Not a good idea.

Ive had fights with Cookie before but I have to give it to him bottoms down on this one. Too many fakes/viruses/manipulated torrents/files. BitTorrent isnt gonna go very far in the future because IPs can easy be seen. Keep it on Messenger Plus! servers and official/trusted mirrors and all should be fine.

It probably is a bad idea. I haven't really had any experience of torrent fakers so Cookie's thoughts are probably more reliable than mine.

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
There is also the factor that whenever an official torrent is available, people _will_ attempt (and succeed) in creating fakes, just to countradict it, thus increasing the number of fakes. And the users will not know that those are fake.

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And then the faker will publish that fake to a link-repository (no faker is famous enough to have people visiting their site and downloading fakes, at least that I knew). After that some people will download and will probably notice it (say... after seing an old version or a virus). Those will report that file/hash to the website that published that. If the webmasters are honest, they'll remove the link, if not, they won't. However, if I as Messenger user want to download something about messenger I'll go to mess.be and related sites. Their webmasters won't put up a fake, because it will cause a lot of criticism and the visitors will decrease. They will most probably put the original torrent.

But still: fakers can upload the faked file and pretend they are mirroring Messenger Plus! in w/e communities/channels. Fakes find their way to the surface any way, the only way to avoid it is to use common sense (visiting famous messenger related sites and/or the official site) to find trustworthy sources.

However, and I repeat, I don't support the idea anyway.

well look i get back to my point.. i think a torrent would be useful if and only if it's an official one put on the site.. of course some ppl might take it, modifiate it and put it on other torrents website.. but that happens with msn messenger, ppl should know already.. and I personally dunno why ppl would need a torrent.. i mean.. it's a freeware.. why not just staying on the website link? maybe more mirrors would do the job if it's only about the speed of download..

what y'all think?

quote:

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Originally posted by lp15
i think a torrent would be useful if and only if it's an official one put on the site.

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You can't control what other people do. If this was an ideal world and there was no way that fakes can be made, and people don't fake stuff just for the kick out of it, then yes it would be nice to have it. Unfortunatly, this isn't an ideal world....

quote:

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Originally posted by lp15
but that happens with msn messenger, ppl should know already..

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Exactly my point! People know where to download their leaks, but they don't know where to download the official version when they have a problem. Don't believe me? See IRC and all the other forums on techstuff in the world, I know I came across many... This only proofs that the vast majority (of msn messenger user, thus being young people who don't know much about PC's) just download what they are told from friends and what is "cool". They don't bother searching for official stuff or whatever, as they should do....

Do not look at the problem in your, knowledgable, way. But look at it from the point of view of a 'n00b' (as that is what most msn users are): If you see "cool download this, new Plus! version 4.0, add cool stuff to messenger" you aren't going to bother to check the official site (which you don't know anyways).

And because this isn't an ideal world, providing something official, will always go together with people who want to fake/crack/whatever it...

serious dude P2P means peer-2-peer (or pay-2-play) how do you think bitTorrent works then?

you (a peer) upload to another bloke (another peer) so the transfer is Peer-2-Peer

sheesh.

P2P may have some similarities to bit torrent but they're two ENTIRELY different things and you shouldn't confuse the two. Cookie is incredibly sceptical because he uses P2P and possibly eXeem. He may even use some of tghe tacky torrent sites, like torrentspy. However if he bothered to look on the sites which are popular and used by the clever majority he would see that torrents and viruses do not mix and if they do are removed almost instantly. I started this originally because I thought there was a bandwidth problem after reading some over posts, but as there isn't I agree bit torrent isn't necessary... but for that reason and that reason alone. ALL of cookies points are retarded and make absoloutley no sense. As for this rubbish about fakes and viruses.. I think DJCrazyMonkey sums it up nicely...
Would you download the .exe of a program from a dodgy site? Hell no. Then why get the torrent from there either? How many people don't get Msgplus from the official site anyway?
If an offical torrent was offered (and i agree it seems unecessary) then why get a fake? If anything you should support it cookie so that less fakes are made and more get the offical torrent.

Trust me i doubt Cookie uses eXeem based on his previous comments