Shoutbox

ohwell - i was there from the beginning too - started 2001 or something - but i only thought we did the scratch-thing in 2,0 and 3,0 - i am not that good at memory-issues

Should we write Patchou and tell how glad we would be if he did the section-thing?

well, it would certainly enhance translations, as virtually all ampersand-collisions could be ironed out. So for the benefit of all, let's write

agree - are you, or should I do the draft?
Anyway - how many translators are doing the Hungarian translation?

Back then when this first was suggested and a program was made by ShunterAlhena, I already made such a 'draft' and the very bare boned basics for such an application.

I can assure you that such an application is far, and I mean way faaaaar, from being strait forward. And such a 'draft' isn't that easy to create either. There are extremely, and I mean extreeeeemly, many things you need to take into consideration.

To give an example out of the many: some controls do not have ampersands originally, but they can have them, eventhough they are not visible to the user in Plus! or eventhough they are not used. It isn't enough to just assume that only certain options will have them. You need to check every key in the whole translation. There are also even keys which are not listed in the main language file but which are still perfectly possible to use in translation. Some same ampersands can be used although the controls appear on the same page. etc...

Also to keep this up to date, you need to put a hell of a lot time into carefully revise every!!! option, link, button, control, etc in Plus! each time a new build is released. And I can assure you that doing something like that take a very serious long time.

An ampersand collision checking software is only usefull when it is absolutely 500% correct and very decently made. Otherwise it will give a false feeling. As events in the past have shown too frequently, people will rely on such applications too much hence it should work without the slithest bug or there shouldn't be one in the first place.

The time it takes to manually check ampersand collisions versus the time it would take to create such an application and updating it each time is very very very high. In fact, you would put more time in updating the 'draft' than the time needed to manually check a translation file. Hence why I also put this project in the freezer (well actually it has been put in C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\Patches\MsgPlus\Translations\Tools\Validator\tests\ and maybe, just maybe, if there are enough translators complaining about the workload for checking this and too many collisions in other translations are found, I might consider unfreezing this )

Not saying you should not do this, but I'd suggest you better put some time into creating something else.

the Hungarian translation is made by me solely no-one else

hm, about CookieRevised... I might not post a lot but I do lurk around here I think we can rely on his word

My proposal: the bunk of translation and testing for MsgPlus 4 is already over, so the program wouldn't be of too much use right now. I'll make a task entry in Outlook so when winds of a major Plus! change are coming we can resume this discussion and mail Patchou about this stuff, and reconsider doing it. What do you think?

well... i think its a bit sad that it wasnt done from the beginning - but Patchou might have his reasons - even thinking about writing a mail to make him change his mind about the existing structure is a bit awkward if its an improvement that would make it easier to fix collisions.

But i rest my case... i just saw the fun in programming such a program and maybe help other translators in fixing the ampersand-issue

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Originally posted by ShunterAlhena

My proposal: the bunk of translation and testing for MsgPlus 4 is already over, so the program wouldn't be of too much use right now.

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yeah, exactly... and also one of the reasons why such a program or an update of the 'draft' will always come too late.

By the time the 'draft' is updated decently, all the translating and (manual) checking is already done.

I remember the time when I was experimenting with such a tool during beta testing/translation period. By the time I had update half the draft, 3 more new beta/translation builds were released. Making all the work useless and again should be started with a new 'draft'...

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The only usefull thing about such an app would be to check your translation some time after it is already been released in an public build (if the draft-update is on time). And usefull for the unofficial translations which are made long after a build is released.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I already made such a 'draft' and the very bare boned basics for such an application.

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By 'draft' i ment mail - a raw draft that should be mailed to Patchou... you know - 'Dear Patchou - please do the logic-structure thing in the translation-file'

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Originally posted by Kian
By 'draft' i ment mail - a raw draft that should be mailed to Patchou

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ah... with 'draft' I mean the control file you would need which includes the whole list of controls and keys which are needed to check collisions (and this file would be almost as big as a translation itself... to give an idea of the scope of this).

heh i refered to a mail that should be mailed to Patchou to change the language-file so that such a program could be programmed

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Should we write Patchou and tell how glad we would be if he did the section-thing?

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