Shoutbox

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Originally posted by MenthiX

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Originally posted by nikosATH
because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"

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I'm sorry to say this, but it is pretty UNTHOUGHTFULL from you if you really rely this badly on freeware software...

The EULA which you agree on while installing clearly states "MESSENGER PLUS! LIVE AND ITS SPONSOR PROGRAM ARE PROVIDED "AS IS," WITH NO WARRANTIES WHATSOEVER". Sure it would have been nice if the feature was still here in the first 4.0 release, but there is not much you can do against it when it isn't there.

If you want to be sure of things, then pay somebody to write software for you and make a contract that guarantees something will keep on being available and working.

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You are 100% right... LEGALLY noone can sue this company since we all "signed" the EULA before installing...
That does also mean however that we all installed and used this software in good faith - we supported it by spreading the word all over the world and this is what made it no1 and one of the most used programs. But don't you see that the 2 examples I gave earlier are exactly the same? (there is the same EULA everywhere)
Don't you see that there are certain "ethics" in the world of computing? And finally don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company, Patchou and all the people behind this project at stake?
What goes up can come down... it's an internet reality with hundreds of examples to prove it... it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life) and I am sorry to break the news...

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Originally posted by nikosATH
don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company

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Patchou could have done two things...

- Get custom names and other features that are currently missing done first and release after that. Which would mean that there would't be a Messenger Plus! Live at all at this moment and you would have been unable to use Messenger Plus! for at least a few more weeks.
- Do like he did now and create a Plus! Live as feature complete as possible, but still release a few days after Windows Live MEssenger so people can actually start using WLM together with Plus! already.

Either way there will always be people who wont be happy. Patchou choose the method that he thinks will get the least people unhappy. It was all a matter of time so he could release something when WLM becomes public... because time was short not all features could be done... so he decided to give lower priority to features that already have an alternative... the two bigges examples are Custom Names (WLM has rename contact) and Quick Icons (WLM has an emoticon button). Both of these features will probably be back in later versions. In fact, Quick Icons already is back in a private beta version.... It's being tested right now and will be released soon. I'm sure Patchou will take another look at custom names too, especially since so many people are asking for it.

You could use MSN 7.5 and Plus! 3.xx for now if you really can't live without custom names. The bottom line is...
- If patchou wanted to release Plus! Live 4.00 with all the old features in it he would now still be developing and you would have needed to wait even longer before you could use Plus! with WLM.
- If patchou decided to give custom names a higher priority, then he would have needed to drop another feature and other people would have been unhappy. Because there is an alternative in WLM which does at least some of Plus!' custom names features Patchou choose to wait with custom names instead of another feature.

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Originally posted by nikosATH
it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life)

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The amount of total users is still growing every day.

nikosATH, what you forget is that something like the custom names isn't just a small feature to program.

Messenger Plus! Live is made entirly from scratch. Nothing is copy/pasted from the old code. Plus! Live is not a simple update of code of Plus!3. And in order to get Plus! Live released on time, some things weren't finished yet in favor of other things which got higher priority or were quicker to add. I bet if there currently wasn't a release yet for Plus! Live, because not all features were developped yet, you would complain about it too.

Not only is time a big issue here, there are also technical reasons why something isn't done yet. Patchou certaily did not include the custom names just to pester people. If it was all that easy and quick to program, it sure would have been included.

As Menthix mentionned, Plus! is a relative small freeware, programmed by 1 person. It isn't a big massive suite where hundreds of people are working on with a big company behind it.

This hasn't got anything todo with Patchou being unethical, unthoughtfull or whatever. If there is one programmer who puts his users in the first place it would be Patchou (he never would have released a Plus!Live version if he didn't care).

And Plus! is far, way far, from EOL either just because you don't like the fact that a certain feature isn't implemented yet as you liked it to be.

Yes, the custom names feature is nice, usefull and whatever, but in the end it is just a feature, not a life-saving-highly-important-critical thing. Everybody finds it a pitty that it isn't available yet, but that's how things go when a software like this needs to be programmed from scratch, released on time in public. Choices have to be made because it is all done by 1 person who also has 2 hands, 1 keyboard and 24 hours in a day and millions of impatient users who cry out for a working version for Windows Live Messenger.

It is not like there is no alternative either; you're not forced to use Windows Live Messenger and Plus! Live, you can still use Messenger 7.x and Plus!3.

Have patients patience     (EDIT: lol.... damn, second time I misspelled it, thx for noticing it raceprouk... )

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Have patients

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Or maybe patience

And remember, it's still possible to format nicknames, using the same BBcode-like tags used in conversations.
b = bold
i = italic
u = underline
s = strikethrough
c = colour
a = background
With colour and background, the syntax is [c=<fadefrom>][/c=<fadeto>]

quote:

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Originally posted by MenthiX

quote:

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Originally posted by nikosATH
don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company

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Patchou could have done two things...

- Get custom names and other features that are currently missing done first and release after that. Which would mean that there would't be a Messenger Plus! Live at all at this moment and you would have been unable to use Messenger Plus! for at least a few more weeks.
- Do like he did now and create a Plus! Live as feature complete as possible, but still release a few days after Windows Live MEssenger so people can actually start using WLM together with Plus! already.

Either way there will always be people who wont be happy. Patchou choose the method that he thinks will get the least people unhappy. It was all a matter of time so he could release something when WLM becomes public... because time was short not all features could be done... so he decided to give lower priority to features that already have an alternative... the two bigges examples are Custom Names (WLM has rename contact) and Quick Icons (WLM has an emoticon button). Both of these features will probably be back in later versions. In fact, Quick Icons already is back in a private beta version.... It's being tested right now and will be released soon. I'm sure Patchou will take another look at custom names too, especially since so many people are asking for it.

You could use MSN 7.5 and Plus! 3.xx for now if you really can't live without custom names. The bottom line is...
- If patchou wanted to release Plus! Live 4.00 with all the old features in it he would now still be developing and you would have needed to wait even longer before you could use Plus! with WLM.
- If patchou decided to give custom names a higher priority, then he would have needed to drop another feature and other people would have been unhappy. Because there is an alternative in WLM which does at least some of Plus!' custom names features Patchou choose to wait with custom names instead of another feature.

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Originally posted by nikosATH
it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life)

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The amount of total users is still growing every day.

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To be honest the majority of the people who use Plus were forced to do so because of the shortcomings of renaming in the original MSN - after a while you ended up with a list of silly nicknames for which you didn't have the slightest idea who could it be....
Not being able to transfer the list as it is, renders the MSN live unusuable anyway (since you never know who-is-who in your list) so either way we are stuck with MSN 7.5 and Plus at least for as long as microsoft doesn't try to FORCE us into using the 8 (which I predict will happen very soon...)
Do you think if Patchou delays any further his transfer option and if we are all forced to manually rename each and every contact in our list would EVER want to use Plus again??? That is why I am talking of an EOL... it has happened in the past with other successful "third party programs" which went terribly bad at some point... it can happen again...
I must say a "big thank" you though to all you that are taking the time to answer and discuss this matter with me and also to whoever is talking directly with the developer into (hopefully) rushing out a WORKING Plus version sometime soon.

PS I wouldn't mind paying a resonable amount of money to get a working Plus let's say "Pro" version with several extra features which can co-exist with the free one (much like the Trillian developers have already done)

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Originally posted by nikosATH
Do you think if Patchou delays any further his transfer option and if we are all forced to manually rename each and every contact in our list would EVER want to use Plus again???

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Yes, simply because the custom names feature is only one of the many features.

And MS will not force people to upgrade to WLM in a long time to come. Note that WLM is ONLY for Windows XP/NT, everybody else who use another Windows version will still be able to use 7.x...

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Originally posted by nikosATH
whoever is talking directly with the developer into (hopefully) rushing out a WORKING Plus version sometime soon.

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Plus! is a working product. Just because it doesn't have a feature you want doesn't mean it's broken: all it means is that you're too impatient to wait for the feature to appear, or too lazy to do the renaming yourself. I did: it took me about 30-45 minutes.
Did I mind? Yes.
Did I do it anyway? Evidently.
Do I miss Custom Contact Names? Of course I do!
Do I bitch and moan that Plus! isn't a working product as a result? Certainly not! I'm just thankful that in the next release the Personalised Status shortcuts are coming back

As far as I'm concerned, WLM has a half-decent and useable Nickname feature, where Plus! tags can be used, and Custom Contact Names can wait. For instance, say everyone bugs the Windows Live team about the Nickname feature. They then improve it, adding colours, tags, all the stuff we're used to from Plus! 3.
Now, if Patchou had coded Custom Contact Names before this, it would have been a colossal waste of time, time better spent on features that WLM doesn't even have at all, and won't for the time being. From my point of view, I'd rather see the time spent on improving the encryption/decryption performance, optimising the use of space in toasts, and extensions to the scripting engine. All of which are higher priority than Custom Contact Names.

If the Nicknames are improved enough, then it won't be long before a Custom Names to Nicknames converter is added to Plus!, since it will require less effort overall. On the other hand, if the Nicknames feature stagnates, Custom Contact Names will make a comeback.

Now, if this post has shown nothing except that people's opinions differ, I will consider the time spent on this worthwhile. However, if you feel any negativity due to what I have said, I apologise. The medium of text is sadly devoid of emotion.

Hopefully I've helped you to understand the reasoning behind some of the choices made in developing Plus! Live

Apologies for length, width, and altitude gain.

Additioinal:

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Originally posted by nikosATH
because of the shortcomings of renaming in the original MSN

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I wouldn't call them 'shortcomings'. I mean, it's not the developers' fault that people use their display names for anything other than their name. Hence the appearence of the Nickname feature.
Plus! is, and has always been, designed to augment Messenger. It only adds, rarely replaces (logs being an exception), and basically aims to make Messenger a more complete experience.

Some people are so ungrateful and selfish it makes me sick. Twats. Keep up the awesome work Patchou (and all you people making scripts!)

Actually not having the renamed contacts will cost me about a full day.  I had contact names with customer numbers, so now I have to go through all my files and rename EVERY contact again. 

I think it will be easier to go to a previous image and not use LIVE.

After a year no custom names and no script to transfer the "old" plus list to MSN live.....
So I'm either stuck with MSN 7.5 (for as long as it is still working) or update to Live manually and deal with 500+ contacts over 4 different MSN accounts... GREAT!
That is a GREAT lesson from Patchou and the Plus! crew NEVER again to trust a free and independent developer for an established software
No wonder no-one's using plus with MSN live anymore.... no need actually! MSN live has all the features...
(OK no-one except the few that will bother to answer this last message)